Forum Topic

RNLI abuse

There are shocking reports of attacks on RNLI volunteers accused of helping migrants on small boats in the Channel. The RNLI is there to help anyone and everyone in distress. They are not there to decide who is worthy of being saved. And they are certainly not “traitors”!A petition has been started in support of RNLI staff and volunteers who are being harassed wholly unjustifiably. It’s here: https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/petition-launched-in-support-of-rnli-after-workers-subject-to-far-right-threats.htmlI have made a donation to the RNLI this morning and I would encourage everyone on this Forum to do the same, and/or sign the petition. The RNLI is a charity.

Jonathan Callaway ● 35d276 Comments

It's outrageous. I have seen that volunteers are having their home addresses posted online also

Michael Brigo ● 35d

I actually find it strange Jonathan, you are telling people to donate to the RNLI, especially as they are a taxi for all these men coming to England. Have you thought how scared the residents of our towns are with them all arrivingYes we used to give to the RNLI but a bit off. Perhaps they should take all the MEN back to where they came from and then ask for Donations you might get more support then. We're the ones who are suffering, children going to school scared who they might bump into with knives etc, have you not seen enough on the TV to see the continual way they act. Don't tell me they come for a better life. What about our lives.

Barbara Stevens ● 35d

I am sorry, Barbara, but you are wrong as the RNLI is a lifeboat charity that saves lives at sea. Also, The UK is also a signatory of the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) Convention.  This was drawn up as a result of the sinking of the Titanic in 1912.The RNLI is NOT a border force.  It is not its role to decide who to save.  Perhaps your anger should be directed at the government and Border Force who are the ones who decide who can come in and stay.

Ivonne Holliday ● 35d

Thank you, Ivonne, you make my point for me. The RNLI is a highly esteemed charity whose lifeboats have saved countless people in British waters, not least on the tidal Thames. Of course it’s not their job to check the immigration status of anyone they save. Those they pick up in the Channel they hand over to the Border Force for processing. I know people are angry about these boat crossings but you absolutely can’t blame the RNLI. The numbers crossing the Channel are 40% down this year, those lodged in hotels are also substantially down, so current policies seem to be working. The thing that has really shocked me is how individual volunteers are being named and targeted online. I would expect every single one of us to condemn that thuggish behaviour. But I may be too optimistic.

Jonathan Callaway ● 35d

Don't preach to me Ivonne, we have a 34ft and have gone Calais, Wolverton, Ramsgate, Rochester, my other half did the Dunkirk trip when Prince Michael of Kent was there. I do not need you patronising me as if you know everything. Also Bourne End under the Environment Agency. So I would give up if I was you

Barbara Stevens ● 35d

Well if they were so near Normandy why didn't they take them back? How come all the coaches were already waiting for them? WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT what about residents in Crowborough, everybody is demonstrating, well watch this space good on the protestors.

Barbara Stevens ● 35d

37000 boats came across even when we had Covid one way or another. Bringing germs or what ever to our shores. As for the Titanic if RNLI was brought in after that. It was obviously for boats or people swept out to sea not get of your dingy we will take you the rest of your journey. Hope they move next to the both of you. You will soon change your tune.

Barbara Stevens ● 35d

I am not preaching, Barbara and certainly not patronising!!!But thinking that the RNLI can pick and choose who they save at sea is incorrect!The ones we should protest at is the Border Force and the government!  And this is not preaching, forget about patronising!

Ivonne Holliday ● 35d

Have they moved next to you?There are an enormous amount close to us.  But I will never blame RNLI for that.

Ivonne Holliday ● 35d

Clearly the harassment of RNLI volunteers is unacceptable and the culprits should be prosecuted if they have broken the law. But let’s be honest. The RNLI was set up to save seafarers in genuine distress. It was not intended to pick up migrants who deliberately set out in unseaworthy boats in  order to be taken to Britain. The key to their strategy is that the vessels are dangerous, necessitating their rescue. One way of putting an end to this moral blackmail would be to inform potential migrants on French shores  that the RNLI will not help them if they get into distress. Would this be morally unacceptable? For example, in Florida during the hurricane season the authorities sometimes tell residents to evacuate their homes. It is not a criminal offence to ignore this advice, but residents are told that if they choose to remain in their homes and get into trouble, no one will come and rescue them. The principle is the same. The state is not obliged to help those who deliberately place themselves in danger. It might be objected that mountain rescue volunteers rescue people who try to climb Ben Ness in flip flops. Yes, but they don’t deliberately get into distress. They are just idiots. In contrast the Channel migrants deliberately court danger in order to ensure rescue.

Steven Rose ● 35d

Ben Nevis

Steven Rose ● 35d

I totally agree with you, Steven.  The RNLI was set up in 1824 to save lives from shipwrecks.  Fast forward to 2026 and it is impossible to classify the migrants' dinghies as shipwrecks.I like the idea that Florida said, in a way, help yourselves as we will not be able/willing to help you. Why put the rescuers in danger?But, as I said before, that is a political (meaning Government's) decision to adopt and not for the RNLI to do so.

Ivonne Holliday ● 35d

The RNLI pre dates titanic by close on 100 years.I don't think Grace Darling wondered who was in dustress when launched from Bamburgh Northumberland in the 1800s

Andy Pike ● 35d

I thought there was some obligation under Maritime Law? Anyway,  the Coastguard seem to think there is as they are tge ones who request assistance from the RNLI.It seems to be forgotten that the real criminals are the people traffickers and are the ones who should be tracked down and prosecuted. Any suggestion to cut funds to or sanction the RNLI is stupid as it is likely to affect the circa 99% of the cases who aren't asylum seekers, particularly anyone who uses the waterways!

Michael Ixer ● 35d

While the RNLI are helping the illegals, they might also be missing the real people in distress. The dinghies are even bigger now, so we'll organised on France side. Perhaps we should be more organised in sending them back. We let the French fish in our waters, but we couldn't fish in theirs. So why don't we stop them coming in dinghys in out waters. Perhaps should create some whirl pools.

Barbara Stevens ● 35d

Yes, RNLI was set up in 1824.I mentioned the Titanic as there is an official international convention called Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) which came about after the sinking of the Titanic.

Ivonne Holliday ● 35d

It’s disgraceful, these foreigners coming over here and abusing our woman and girls, when that’s the preserve of our upstanding patriotic Englishmen. For example: ● Almost half of the 2024 UK rioters who were convicted, were previously reported for domestic abusehttps://www.thelondoneconomic● In Bristol, more than two thirds of the people arres­ted for dis­order in an anti-immig­ra­tion demon­stra­tion had pre­vi­ous con­tact with police over reports of domestic abuse.https://www.pressreader.com/uk/bristol-post/20250820/281663966104512● Ryan Bridge, the founder of the group which has been putting Union Jack and St George's Cross flags on lampposts, has been charged with a total of 14 offences, including racially aggravated harassment, threatening behaviour and assault.https://news.sky.com/story/founder-of-group-that-put-flags-on-lampposts-charged-with-14-offences-13582591

Richard Carter ● 34d

Steven, you say "The RNLI was set up to save seafarers in genuine distress. It was not intended to pick up migrants who deliberately set out in unseaworthy boats in order to be taken to Britain."But this deliberate policy is that of the organisers of these crossings, not those on the boats.  They are desperate people who have been sold a line and paid a lot of money for the privilege of a near-death experience in the Channel.Would it be morally unacceptable for the RNLI to tell them in advance they won't help them even if their boat is in trouble?  Do I even need to answer that question? Of course they won't do that and as a charity they are obliged to follow their charitable purpose:"The RNLI is the charity that saves lives at sea. Powered primarily by kind donations, our search and rescue service has been saving lives for over 200 years.We are a charity founded upon and driven by our values of selflessness, courage, dependability and trustworthiness, with volunteers at our heart. Values shared by generations of supporters like you who have powered our lifesaving work through your kindness and generosity for over 200 years."There's no room there for them to exercise discretion about who they might or might not agree to save.If we are to solve the small boats crisis we have to look at government agencies not at a save-and-rescue charity. I hope the campaign against RNLI volunteers comes to a rapid halt.

Jonathan Callaway ● 34d

Of course a number of these thugs have distateful past convictions....but that doesnt mean everyone who is concerned about the unregulated entry into this country of fighting age young men canbe tarred with that brush.

Andy Pike ● 34d

“ Clearly the harassment of RNLI volunteers is unacceptable and the culprits should be prosecuted if they have broken the law. But let’s be honest. The RNLI was set up to save seafarers in genuine distress. It was not intended to pick up migrants who deliberately set out in unseaworthy boats in  order to be taken to Britain. The key to their strategy is that the vessels are dangerous, necessitating their rescue. One way of putting an end to this moral blackmail would be to inform potential migrants on French shores  that the RNLI will not help them if they get into distress. Would this be morally unacceptable? ”Morally unacceptable?  Not at all Steven and hopefully it would put a stop to the RNLI from being used as the illegals taxi-service.

Sue Hammond ● 34d

Why do Jonathon and Richard come out with same dribble. So what your saying is you want them all here. Funny how Greece is shooting at them to keep them away. Why do you want all these dangerous men here?. We don't have body guards were being taxed everything is going up in price. They should stop them even getting in to France in the first place. Also Ivonne are you actually in Putney as you made a comment you have loads near you where. Because I think we need to know

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

Sue, so you're happy to recommend the RNLI let innocent childred die? That's nice!

Michael Ixer ● 34d

Clearly Michael,you must be hallucinating, what women and children, all men from what I see. The men have been known to push women or children off the boat to drown. The boats are bigger over crowded and expect their stupidity to be saved by the RNLI.

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

Of course not everyone protesting is a wife beater or a sexual abuser, but - and this is the real point - a very significant number of them are.

Richard Carter ● 34d

You know how many are wife beaters. You usually have a list of how many. Or are you just making it sound better to prove some point or other. Well other prisoners kill other murderers or child molesters. So if they are standing up for our Country that nobody else is, good on them. Perhaps more should be slashing the dinghys in France. That's why our lot went over there to do the job for them. We just pay France millions and that's OK

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

Barbara, although the majority (70+%) of asylum seekers arriving on boats are men, a significant minority (10-15%) are children, some unaccompanied.https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/c99472jl49mo#:~:text=Around%20108%2C000%20people,grown%2Dup.Can't beat looking at the facts!Interesting to see that the Telegraph, not known for its "wokeness" is supporting the RNLI ...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/09/09/the-hounding-of-the-rnli-is-revolting/

Michael Ixer ● 34d

Yes, by Putney Heath on the Heath side.  Go to thr Heath or to Richmond Park and you will see a big number of women in burqas or hijabs accompanied by men in t-shirts and shorts.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 34d

Barbara, you persist in misinterpreting what I am saying. I have only spoken about the appalling treatment meted out to RNLI volunteers and I had hoped everyone would condemn the thugs who are targeting them. I have not said anything in support of people coming across in dinghies. Of course these crossings should be stopped. And as mentioned they are 40% down this year so the government is getting something right. With the French, the Germans and other European countries there is a much more effective combined campaign to stamp out the people traffickers and prevent them accessing the boats they use. Incidentally it was far easier before Brexit. Under the Dublin Agreement we could literally send illegals entrants back, but not now. Check the stats.

Jonathan Callaway ● 34d

@MI 11.44Michael, I don’t want anyone to die in the Channel, especially not any children who shouldn’t be put at risk by irresponsible adults.  The illegal migrants have the choice of keeping them(selves) safe by not getting into the dinghies in the first place.

Sue Hammond ● 34d

Has anyone ever actually met Barbara Stevens?Her recent posts are such incoherent gibberish i'm starting to wonder if she's an AI bot?

Michael Brigo ● 34d

The kind of people who harass RNLI volunteers and engage in violent disorder are louts, so it is no surprise that many of them have previous convictions. But that does not mean that concern over unauthorised migration is not legitimate.

Steven Rose ● 34d

RichardHow to you come to the conclusion that a huge number of the British electorate are wife beaters etc based on their opposition to unregulated entry of young men to the UK.Have you stats?

Andy Pike ● 34d

Nothing to do with the British electorate but a relatively small number of rioters/protesters. For figures, see my post of 11/09/26 10:08:00.

Richard Carter ● 34d

Yes Ivonne, but this doesn't mean they are illegals.

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

Peter Sparkes, Chief Executive of the RNLI is on £160,000 a year he directed the RNLI to go 80 miles to pick up the illegals. Their calling him a W---er.

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

Here is a link (sorry, Sue) to the Daily Telegraph:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/09/09/the-hounding-of-the-rnli-is-revolting/?msockid=132e1b802c59668517a90cc42d306718"The hounding of the RNLI is revolting"For balance here is another link (sorry Sue) to the Guardianhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/sep/11/rnli-charity-reports-donations-boost-far-right-small-boatsIt does look as though (nearly) everyone is appalled by the attacks on their volunteers.

Jonathan Callaway ● 34d

Of course the volunteers shouldn't be attacked, but why not refuse to go 85 miles to collect illegal dinghys. You sure the money we are not paying is disappearing from Peter Sparks big money he earns.

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

According to the Civil Society website the average CEO pay of UK's largest charities is £192,000, so the RNLI is Paying below the average.Here's the link (sorry Sue):https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/average-ceo-pay-at-uks-largest-charities-rises-to-192000.html

Jonathan Callaway ● 34d

So its a relative majority of a small number . Not really significant then

Andy Pike ● 34d

Michael Brigo, yes I've been on the forum years, also.lived here 55yrs and come from Barnes. Yes I probably do talk gibberish, but it's wound you all up. About time the forum got back to its old self, say what you want like old times, a good old argument.

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

Michael Brigo, I’ve known Barbara since her Robert Dyas days, at least 25 years.  She lives not far from me.

Martine Guy ● 34d

Thank you Martine, hoping I get my injection on Monday for my Arthritus, I might be a bit more normal. I don't think. Ha.ha

Barbara Stevens ● 34d

I think and hope that whenever the RNLI are attacked like this donations to the RNLI do increase.  Unfortunately some people's prejudices and fears are constantly being magnified by the algorithms of social media.

Philippa Bond ● 34d

Give 'EME' a cup of tea AND A BUN, AND SEND THEM BACK AGAIN

Patrick D Barrs ● 34d

It would have been the UK Border Force who requested an RNLI lifeboat to rescue the refugees. The RNLI CEO  wouldn't have made that decision. That sounds like disinformation ...

Michael Ixer ● 34d

Well Michael can you prove it, only 85 Miles for our Life boats to go to the other side of the Channel is a long journey we our in their waters. Why wouldn't they have been picked from the otherside not ours.

Barbara Stevens ● 33d

Just googled how stupid once a boat leaves the French shores it's up to us to pick them up, even 85 miles and they were nit in danger. So this is what your donations are going on diesel and everything given to the illegals, life jackets food and everything else. Sea sick pills.

Barbara Stevens ● 33d

Jonathon, what if we have just left in our boat from France and we break down, that means we will have to wait for our RNLI to come and help us out of trouble. Why are we paying France so much money. Google Google Google over to you.

Barbara Stevens ● 33d

Barbara, I reckon you can google just as well as I can.  But here is a link (sorry, Sue) to what the RNLI are saying:https://rnli.org/about-us/our-work-in-the-channelI assume if your boat breaks down in French waters then the French equivalent of the RNLI will come and get you.As for the nuts and bolts of the deal between France and Britain about the small boats I'll leave you to dig out the details.  We all know it involves a lot of money heading from here to France and not effective enough action by the French to stop the boats leaving in the first place, though the latest reports suggest things are improving.

Jonathan Callaway ● 33d

Well, now it proves we shouldn't send our money to the French as they do nothing. They just push them over to us to get rid of them. This is why the demonstrators are demonstrating. They want to keep our country safe, the sooner the Government realises the better. SOS in England.

Barbara Stevens ● 33d

There are fewer boats as much more work is having to be done working with other countries to disrupt the international criminal gangs and they are having to change their modus operandi.  It has obviously become much harder to work with EU countries because we have now left the EU and don't have the same agreements with them and shared arrangements that we once had.It is much harder to get into the country in any other way other than by boat  now although it does sometimes happen.  You can still read about people smugglers and the huge amounts of money they charge desperate people for dangerous journeys.  The message that the Channel route with so many drownings is dangerous has obviously started to get through.  Funny how we think we should be free to go anywhere we  choose on a whim and fancy and others shouldn't when they are desperate.We get Sahara dust flying in and landing on our cars and Chernobyl dust reached Wales.  Volcanoes in other countries stop international flights.  Who will we be asking for help from when the UK is in dire need? 

Philippa Bond ● 33d

Your not doing your maths philippa, might be less boats in your eyes, but each boat now is about 4 times bigger.

Barbara Stevens ● 33d

Yes, Andy, it is a small number – in relation to the population as a whole. But it’s not the population as a whole who have been staging these provocations, but “a small number” of men dressed in black and wearing balaclavas, a very significant number of whom have convictions for assault and sexual abuse. The whole point of my original post was in the irony that such men were protesting in supposed concern for the safety of our women and children. That really was serious, and it obviously escaped you.

Richard Carter ● 33d

Well Richard your not keeping up, there loads of ordinary people protesting as well, even in Tamworth, Portsmouth, not just the ones in masks. Now they want to take in migrants from 27 EU countries. We are a taxi service for the illegals, you may be getting old Richard but get in the real world for our future generation.  My father fought for this country and his brothers not for it to end up like the state it is now.

Barbara Stevens ● 32d

Well said Jonathan - spot on.

Clifford Cowell ● 32d

Well I spoke to my son who works in Sweden, he watches our news all the time. Even the men he works with who are Swedish, are saying to my son what is going on in England your Countries joke. Even Koreans visit where he works and he shows them soldering as my son is an electronics Engineer, even they know the Wimbledon Tennis and the Putney Boat Race, they know exactly where my son comes from.

Barbara Stevens ● 32d

Your son is an immigrant Barbara?

Michael Brigo ● 32d

Mr Carter'Yes, Andy, it is a small number – in relation to the population as a whole. But it’s not the population as a whole who have been staging these provocations, but “a small number” of men dressed in black and wearing balaclavas, a very significant number of whom have convictions for assault and sexual abuse.'But it is a bigger number of illegal immigrants in relation to the population as a whole that the protesters are trying to stop invading our shores, many who have been accused and convicted of rape and sexual assault of women and children.That is to be expected as they come from alien cultures where our norms of sexual relationships and activity are totally alien.But West Putney progressives must decide if they are on the side of those who are trying to stop this happening, how ever cack-handed their actions might be seen as, or on the side of the perpetrators.In reality do you show a form of patriotism or out of a desire to show leftie credentials put the interests of the invaders first.Which is it in your case ?I think we know where you stand.

John Hawkes ● 32d

Mr Carter'Yes, Andy, it is a small number – in relation to the population as a whole. But it’s not the population as a whole who have been staging these provocations, but “a small number” of men dressed in black and wearing balaclavas, a very significant number of whom have convictions for assault and sexual abuse.'But it is a bigger number of illegal immigrants in relation to the population as a whole that the protesters are trying to stop invading our shores, many who have been accused and convicted of rape and sexual assault of women and children.That is to be expected as they come from alien cultures where our norms of sexual relationships and activity are totally alien.But West Putney progressives must decide if they are on the side of those who are trying to stop this happening, how ever cack-handed their actions might be seen as, or on the side of the perpetrators.In reality do you show a form of patriotism or out of a desire to show leftie credentials put the interests of the invaders first.Which is it in your case ?I think we know where you stand.

John Hawkes ● 32d

Mr. Brigo, his girlfriend is Swedish, the girls were born here. But he's not illegal. His girlfriend was here years hairdressing in Kingston

Barbara Stevens ● 32d

Ms Stevens'Well Richard your not keeping up, there loads of ordinary people protesting as well, even in Tamworth, Portsmouth, not just the ones in masks. Now they want to take in migrants from 27 EU countries. We are a taxi service for the illegals, you may be getting old Richard but get in the real world for our future generation.  My father fought for this country and his brothers not for it to end up like the state it is now.'Well said.People like Mr Carter deliberately  obfuscate this issue by pretending the illegal immigrants are fleeing from political oppression.They are not.They are coming here for economic reasons and few will bother to go through the tedious process of seeking asylum.And they then will disappear into the black economy of 'phone and vape shops', fast food delivery and doubtless sales of illegal drugs.The real issue, which as he is not a patriot and puts people of other lands first, Mr Carter ignores is the fact that the country is being invaded by people we do not want.And the Labour government seems to be making little effort to stop it.And it certainly won't start to until after the Holborn & St Pancras by-election.Good job Carter plus the muppets Miliband and Burnham were not running the country in WWII when we were threatened with invasion by Germany.Still when Burnham has had is photo-op at the Great North Run in a sweat stained running vest perhaps he will turn his attention to it.After a good shower I hope in the new bathroom of No. 10 North.

John Hawkes ● 32d

Thank you Mr.Hawkes, at least somebody agrees with me. We will have have our country taken over if it carries on much longer. So good on the protesters and everybody who is sticking up for them.

Barbara Stevens ● 32d

Ah, economic migrants then.Lovely place to live i'm sure!

Michael Brigo ● 32d

Mr Brigo'Ah, economic migrants then.Lovely place to live i'm sure!'Assuming they do work legitimately which I claim is doubtful, then they are denying work to British youth and depressing wages.Sky News -'UK unemployment has remained at its highest rate in five years, new official figures show.The jobless rate was 5.2% in the three months to January, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) has said.Before last month, such a high hadn't been seen since the three months to January 2021.The increases in the last three months were "largely" due to youth joblessness, the statistics body said'.I assume the migrants are claiming some sort of unemployment benefit (they are certainly being given free accommodation) which added to that paid legitimately to British unemployed shows why our benefits bill is so high and rising.However "Andy Burnham tells PMQs: I won't cut Britain's benefits bill to boost defence spending".So hush; don't tell Putin though of course I assume unemployed youths could be drafted into the Army to 'man the beaches' !

John Hawkes ● 32d

I think you need to read the previous few posts John so you understand the context...

Michael Brigo ● 32d

It is also very worrying how some people don't seem to have learned any lessons from exactly the way WW2 came about.  All those males dressed up in black without the courage to show their faces..

Philippa Bond ● 32d

Mr BrigoI understand the context.The shock at seeing men with their faces covered trying to repel an invasion of illegal immigrants.I don't 'approve' of what they wear.Let's face it I see many youths on e-bikes wearing the same as they hare about Wandsworth.Delivering pizzas or selling drugs.Who knows.I also find this awful and sometimes frightening.But in my opinion the masked men need not hide their faces as no one would attack them for attempting what they are trying to achieve.In fact most would consider them patriots and thank not attack them.Masking detracts from their cause and just gives the faux progressives of West Putney the opportunity to attack them and deem them fascists and potenders of an 'extreme right wing coup'.

John Hawkes ● 31d

You don't understand the context of my comment about "economic migrants" John -  because if you had read the previous 3 posts you would have seen i was talking about Barbara's son. In Sweden.

Michael Brigo ● 31d

Agreed, masks and actual or perceived intimidation detracts from their cause. Irrespective of whether one agrees or disagrees with a protest, wearing masks signifies they're cowards who don't have the courage of their convictions and are perhaps just "sheeple", unlike climate protesters who believe in and understand the reason for their cause - even if one doesn't agree with their methods?

Michael Ixer ● 31d

Mr Ixer'Irrespective of whether one agrees or disagrees with a protest, wearing masks signifies they're cowards who don't have the courage of their convictions and are perhaps just "sheeple", unlike climate protesters who believe in and understand the reason for their cause - even if one doesn't agree with their methods?''Climate protesters' are not quite the bold, open goodie goodies you would have them made out to be.Taken from the Indy -"Climate protesters wearing Charles and Camilla masks join demonstration in Windsor"'Extinction Rebellion (XR) protesters donned King Charles and Queen Camilla masks to take part in a climate demonstration in Windsor'.And how can one protest at 'the climate' ?Certainly some days my plans are upset when the temperature is too high and others when it is too low.And rain can be a bit of a b*gger also.But as much as I shout and scream I have no effect upon this damn phenomenon !

John Hawkes ● 31d

And the accepted use of masks dates back to covid and all those demanding masks must be worn, for little if any benefit.

Andy Pike ● 31d

Yes, Andy, we all wore masks during COVID.  But they covered our nose and mouth only, as far as I remember!

Ivonne Holliday ● 31d

Yes, and I've noticed a lot of Asian people still wear medical masks.

Michael Ixer ● 31d

GB News Patrick Christie and his crew while interviewing in France, have had their vehicles damaged by the illegals and been beaten.

Barbara Stevens ● 31d

The anti-immigrant protesters, not satisfied with abusing RNLI volunteers and threatening a hotel housing not immigrants but the Pakistani under-19 cricket team, have now started abusing the RNIB - the Royal National Institute of Blind People.Some of them are not only abusive but not very bright either!

Jonathan Callaway ● 30d

Whether they are bright or not, their doing the job the Government should be doing, trying to save our country. Instead of sitting back doing nothing.

Barbara Stevens ● 30d

A lot of folk didnt wear the medical masks but some form of hybrid that covered all the lower face, this became acceptable and those of dubious morals continued this 'useful' practice to hide their facial features post covid and continue to do so whilst stealing phones, carrying out raids glueing themselves to roads or marchimg in london ( and elsewhere)  in support of Hamas etc. Hopefully, police will now have the powers of arrest to all those masked people , cos they aint the lone ranger.

Andy Pike ● 29d

Appalling that RNLI has had to close its life saving facility at Portsmouth because of the action of a few ignorant, aggressive and cowardly thugs who misunderstand the work of the RNLI :-(https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rnli-portsmouth-suspended-migrant-protests-b3051753.html

Michael Ixer ● 28d

No Michael, I think you are the one misunderstanding, why on earth would as I said before a Life Boat go 85 miles off the coast of Normandy to rescue a dinghy that wasn't sinking. Why won't you get it into your head they are not helping us they are helping France who have received so much money from us. France is just waving the illegals goodbye. YOU HAVE THEM. Why after paying France do we have to feed them and home them and have our lives put in Danger. Piddington women voted Lib Dem they didn't mind illegals let them in until they would be put on their doorstep. Perhaps you take to many photo's Michael and should get in the real world.

Barbara Stevens ● 28d

Hello Michael,I agree with you, it is beyond appalling!  I hope a ship or a boat does not need their help.I was also horrified that details such as names and addresses of RNLI volunteers have been published on the internet.  Unforgivable!

Ivonne Holliday ● 28d

I agree Michael, this is awful and puts lives at risk.

Michael Brigo ● 28d

Considering Portsmouth can travel 85 miles, you also Hayling Island, look them up. They are still being used. They should have refused to go the distance they did. To a dinghy not in danger.

Barbara Stevens ● 28d

Mr Ixer'Appalling that RNLI has had to close its life saving facility at Portsmouth because of the action of a few ignorant, aggressive and cowardly thugs who misunderstand the work of the RNLI :-('I am sure they did misunderstand its role and responsibilities, but they feel strongly about the defence of our borders from invasion by those of an alien culture.But do you not acknowledge that the RNLI would not have found itself in a cleft stick if the UK government did more to stop the invasion of our shores by illegal immigrants ?Perhaps by using our Navy - or at least one of the 15 surface combatant ships it has.Less belligerently it could also disincentivise these people by not providing them with comfortable accommodation and credit cards when they arrive and more quickly shipping them back to France or better still the countries they come from.Before many of them take the opportunity of attacking or frightening British girls and women.Shame the Conservative plan of using Rwanda as a holding country whist true asylum cases were assessed was abandoned by Labour."Sir Keir Starmer has confirmed the Rwanda deportation scheme is "dead and buried", on his first full day as prime minister.The Labour leader said he would end the "gimmick" of deporting migrants arriving in the UK illegally to Rwanda, which was established by the previous Conservative government.Labour campaigned on a manifesto pledge to scrap the scheme, which has already cost around £310m, promising a more effective approach to tackling illegal immigration to replace it.At his first press conference since entering Number 10, Sir Keir told journalists: "The Rwanda scheme was dead and buried before it started."He argued the scheme has "never been a deterrent" as it would only deport "less than1%" of small boat arrivals."May only have been 1% but would have been a deterrent to others and better than nothing.

John Hawkes ● 28d

Ms Stevens'Perhaps you take to many photo's Michael and should get in the real world.'Or perhaps tell us how many immigrants he has offered accommodation to or where in Putney they should be housed,After all PM Burnham has said the burden of and responsibility for these people should be shared across more affluent areas of the country and not just poorer inner cities.And what could be more affluent than West Putney and as we all know be occupied by such caring progressives.

John Hawkes ● 28d

Poole, Swanage, Weymouth, Mudford, Calshot, Hayling Island, Isle of Wight.(Bembridge, Yarmouth, Ryde/Cowes) Selsey, Littlehampton, Eastbourne,Hastings, Ramsgate,and all the rest. So Portsmouth shouldn't have gone all that way.

Barbara Stevens ● 28d

Appalling and deeply depressing that these aggressive and ignorant protesters have learnt nothing.  I hope the police deal with them as enthusiastically as they dealt with other protesters who block roads and stop people going about their lawful business.Again, here is the RNLI statement: https://rnli.org/about-us/our-work-in-the-channelKey statement: "Our crews are tasked and coordinated in the UK by HM Coastguard".  If they are asked to assist, then they will.  They do not choose who to rescue and quite honestly neither they nor anyone else should be letting people drown just because they are foolish or desperate.People who are concerned about the number of crossings and who is coming over in these inflatables should take it up with the government, not the RNLI, a wholly estimable charity.  I know people are getting hugely exercised about these migrants but please, don't take it out on the RNLI!The only good thing is that donations to RNLI are going through the roof.

Jonathan Callaway ● 28d

So that makes you so happy Jonathan, so now they will just go and pick up more illegals who are not in distress and heaven help a British person who is. So I suppose if somebody puts donations are rising that make you think that will make more people donate. It just means the Chief Executive is rubbing his hands together. Not worrying about the Volunteers, if he hadn't sent them in the first place they wouldn't be being abused.

Barbara Stevens ● 28d

Barbara,Does the statement: "Our [RNLI] crews are tasked and coordinated in the UK by HM Coastguard" not clarify who is in charge of RNLI's rescues?

Ivonne Holliday ● 28d

Ivonne, well the HM Coastguard should be in trouble. So who pays the Chief Executive. This will not stop until the illegals stop coming here look at the state of Ceuta  do you want that here. What about if they start coming down the Thames. They have got to be stopped in France. So they know they will not be helped here. Look after our own which isn't happening and some people are not bothered till they attack them or break into their home.

Barbara Stevens ● 28d

Mr Callaway'Appalling and deeply depressing that these aggressive and ignorant protesters have learnt nothing.  I hope the police deal with them as enthusiastically as they dealt with other protesters who block roads and stop people going about their lawful business.Again, here is the RNLI statement: https://rnli.org/about-us/our-work-in-the-channelKey statement: "Our crews are tasked and coordinated in the UK by HM Coastguard".  If they are asked to assist, then they will.  They do not choose who to rescue and quite honestly neither they nor anyone else should be letting people drown just because they are foolish or desperate.People who are concerned about the number of crossings and who is coming over in these inflatables should take it up with the government, not the RNLI, a wholly estimable charity.  I know people are getting hugely exercised about these migrants but please, don't take it out on the RNLI!The only good thing is that donations to RNLI are going through the roof'.Everyone agrees that the members of the RNLI are doing what is expected of them and admires them for it.I am sure that this is the view also of the masked protesters. RNLI members are stuck between a rock and a hard place.But support for the RNLI and condemnation of the protesters is in the main just deliberate obfuscation of the issue which is that illegal immigrants are making a choice over the means they are taking to enter our country knowing that they will get reflected support and sympathy that is genuinely due to the RNLI crew members.It is more than possible to support RNLI members whilst condemning those invading our shores.

John Hawkes ● 28d

Hello Barbara,That is what I have been saying all along.  HM Coastguard come under the Secretary of State for Transport, Heidi Alexander.Therefore, all protests should be directed to the Government, not a charity manned by volunteers.I hate the situation of boat people as much as you do.  But I disagree most vehemently with the hooded protestors against the RNLI because they are protesting against the wrong people!

Ivonne Holliday ● 28d

But Ivonne. Don't forget everybody else who all joined in. So they all feel the same.

Barbara Stevens ● 28d

Mr Hawkes, I doubt very much that the protesters, masked or otherwise, hold the RNLI in high regard at all. In their ignorance and desperation to find a scapegoat for the arrival of migrants they don’t want here, they have targeted the wrong organisation. Would you not agree they should quit their ugly attacks on a blameless charity?  And would you not roundly condemn the protesters activities, as I do?

Jonathan Callaway ● 28d

In the paper today an ordinary haulage company, has complained about illegals managing to hide on his lorries to get to England and some of his employees have been attacked by them. But the haulage company is the one fined for them hiding in his lorries.

Barbara Stevens ● 28d

Mr Callaway'Mr Hawkes, I doubt very much that the protesters, masked or otherwise, hold the RNLI in high regard at all. In their ignorance and desperation to find a scapegoat for the arrival of migrants they don’t want here, they have targeted the wrong organisation.Would you not agree they should quit their ugly attacks on a blameless charity?  And would you not roundly condemn the protesters activities, as I do?'I agree that no one associated with the RNLI should in anyway be 'targeted' nor even condemned and if they are being attacked it should stop.They are doing a difficult job under even more unusual political pressure.Yet I still doubt the anti-immigration protesters are virulently opposed to them and probably in the main hold the same positive views of them as do you and I.The claim the RNLI is being attacked is an opinion put about to gaslight and obfuscate by open border policy adherents to cause damage to their opponents who, in the main do not believe in the Labour Party's stated policy on immigration and asylum control.These 'attackers' are probably not politically sophisticated enough to under stand the cleft stick the organisation finds itself in and how the condemnation of the attacks on them is put out by pro-immigration agitators.

John Hawkes ● 27d

It has been illegal to carry stowaways across the channel and into the country for about 25 years.  It has become so much harder now than it was arrive undocumented and with greater penalties which is why those wanting to come take risks and resort to paying such huge amounts of money to and accepting offers from the organised crime gangs in boats.

Philippa Bond ● 27d

Ms Bond'It has become so much harder now than it was arrive undocumented and with greater penalties which is why those wanting to come take risks and resort to paying such huge amounts of money to and accepting offers from the organised crime gangs in boats'. I wonder if anyone has done any analysis as to why these immigrants wish to come to this country and not stay in the countries they pass through - Spain, Italy, Germany, France.Spain's PM has made it clear he welcomes them; Germany became the ultimate 'open door' country when Merkel's refugee policy of 2022 lead to more than a million migrants coming to Germany five times more than the year before, boosted by the country’s open-door policy for refugees from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and other war-torn countries; and France is already so full of illegals such as to make their presence unnoticeable. What do we offer that other countries do not ?Or is it Government policy to allow in cheap labour to keep down wages and the cost of living ?Or rather do we have ineffective policies to get rid back to their homelands of people of alien cultures we do not wish or need to have living here who per capita seem to be responsible for more crime than is the case of ethnic Brits.And please, no one say it is the result of a policy of compassion.

John Hawkes ● 27d

I am saddened and disturbed by the hatred and vitriol I am hearing in response to a post about the heroic volunteers at the RNLI.. who by the way, may risk their lives every day, do you lot?  if you're tottering about on the beach, and don't notice the tide times and get swept out to sea, you want them checking your passport??  or telling you, you're too stupid to get in trouble because you didn't check the tide tables before you went wandering.? by your logic, that person is no more required to be saved than the people who are at god's door fighting at a chance for a good life.  why does everyone think that immigrant equals criminal??  they do not. they are people. they are humans.  The people who don't like immigrants "_" , I'm one, but I'm white. nobody bothers me, but I guess I'm unwelcome, even if I arrived via a company instead of a boat.. lucky me, poor them.

Mary McCue ● 27d

Mr Hawkes. Isn't that another way of saying these RNLI abusers are stupid and/or ignorant? Your implication, not my words :-)

Michael Ixer ● 27d

Your complete write-off of human beings is repugnant

Mary McCue ● 27d

But they're not stupid they are the ones protecting us from the illegals. These men coming from France have Phones money to pay for their dinghy travel. They come here here here to cause trouble for us. If residents didn't like it why did loads join in the March with flags to prove a point. The illegals are the mob and dangerous like in Ceuta. My Dear woman do you not watch TV do you not see them running around making a mess. What do the illegals who have been put in communial places for now doing. Standing around staring at school children or raping somebody, you must feel so lucky in the little world in which you live. I suppose Crowborough have had enough that's why they are marching demonstrating is that wrong as well.

Barbara Stevens ● 27d

Mr HawkesIf you really believe "The claim the RNLI is being attacked is an opinion put about to gaslight and obfuscate by open border policy adherents to cause damage to their opponents who, in the main do not believe in the Labour Party's stated policy on immigration and asylum control" then I doubt there is anything I can say to change your mind.The RNLI volunteers are being and have been attacked. Fact. It's on every news outlet.People who condemn that are not "open border policy adherents", they are quite simply people who condemn the violence and lawbreaking going on, without reservation.

Jonathan Callaway ● 26d

Ms McCue'Your complete write-off of human beings is repugnant.You sound somewhat self-righteous and priggish if I might say so.Who is 'writing off' human beings ?The point you miss is that some of us have concern over illegal immigration (I assume your right to reside here is perfectly above board) being carried out by those of an alien culture and a track record of having a higher crime rate per capita than the native population of the UK.And costing the UK taxpayer billions in benefit payment and accommodation charges.UK citizens have a perfect right to determine and control who comes to this country and how they do so.The Government has been put on notice regarding this by the women of Piddington.We do not have an open border policy and neither do most other countries in the EU and in the world at large.

John Hawkes ● 26d

Mr Ixer'Mr Hawkes. Isn't that another way of saying these RNLI abusers are stupid and/or ignorant? Your implication, not my words :-)'Another of your witty bons mots that misunderstands what others have written.It is not my implication and your interpretation sounds clever but is completely unfounded and unproven.

John Hawkes ● 26d

Mr Callaway'The RNLI volunteers are being and have been attacked. Fact. It's on every news outlet.People who condemn that are not "open border policy adherents", they are quite simply people who condemn the violence and lawbreaking going on, without reservation.'I too without reservation condemn violence and intimidation directed at RNLI volunteers.My point is that those who in frustration perpetrated such actions are at the unacceptable and extreme end of a spectrum of British people who are against the seeming uncontested invasion of our country by aliens, who in turn seem to arouse so much support and sympathy.Are you happy with the immigration situation as it stands and if not, what do you think should be done to better control it ?

John Hawkes ● 26d

Why would Jonathon,or Richard be bothered about our safety, we are already being nearly run over by the illegals on the High Street. Nothing is done about that.

Barbara Stevens ● 26d

Mr HawkesYou ask “Are you happy with the immigration situation as it stands and if not, what do you think should be done to better control it ?” No of course I’m not happy with the situation.  The arrival of so many undocumented people (mostly but not all young males) is obviously a huge concern to nearly everyone, though I personally believe some of the reactions are quite hysterical. On the other hand, we do not know who these asylum seekers really are (and they all, or nearly all, claim asylum as soon as they land). I have read that Iran may have infiltrated a few IRGC operatives so we can only hope they are being weeded out. But simply demonising all those on the boats is wrong too. They are, in the main, fleeing civil war and turmoil in their home countries. They are desperate and probably traumatised. Of course some are purely economic migrants but jumping automatically to the worst conclusion does not help, and some politicians do nothing but encourage that, without evidence of course. Ugly and divisive in my view. The self-styled “patriots” are quite frankly a blot on society that we should all be ashamed of. What sort of image do they convey of this country?  I have just been reading of the close links some Reform councillors have with the “Patriotic Platform” run by a former bodyguard of Tommy Robinson, and, by no coincidence at all, also a convicted criminal. What should be done?  I wish I had the answers but it seems, whether we like it or not, working with our neighbours across the Channel is the only way forward. Crossings this year are 41% down on the year before but, if the BBC article in the link below (sorry, Sue) is right, then the reasons lie not just with the actions of this and previous governments, but developments much further afield. So it could change for the worse again. The “solution” offered by Reform of deploying the Royal Navy is frankly illegal (under international law) and unworkable. We simply can’t send our navy uninvited into French waters and they certainly won’t be issuing an invitation. And towing the boats back only as far as the edge of French waters and leaving them there is highly dangerous, inhuman in fact, and also illegal. I could see the navy simply refusing to do that. So international cooperation is the only way. Crack down collectively on the gangs, crack down on the suppliers of boats and engines, crack down on the facilitators here in the UK. All this is happening but it’s a long hard battle. Let us remind ourselves how all this started: Brexit and the imperfect withdrawal agreement that saw us exiting the Dublin Agreement whereby we could, pre-Brexit, just send them back, as France could with illegals entering France from Italy. Check the stats on boat crossings and when they started. Here is the link (sorry Sue): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjvgy1g932xro

Jonathan Callaway ● 25d

Oops. It looks like the convicted criminal who runs the Patriot group that goes around terrorising members of the RNLI ( and the more thick ones, the RNIB - I doubt if many asylum seekers on boats are blind) has hit a problem.  His boats sunk! The image I saw, it looked like if you tie your boat up, make provision for the tide to go out, but perhaps that's "fake" news. I bet if he'd ha e called the Coastguards they and the RNLI would have responded - provided his thugs hadn't closed them down ...

Michael Ixer ● 25d

Would-be sea captain Danny Tommo's anti-migrant boat venture springs a leak | Searchlight https://share.google/WjjEFfXXciPE64uxs

Michael Ixer ● 25d

I have been here for 25 years and a British citizen for 20 years.. I'm on my third British passport.. thanks so much for letting me in. I pay taxes and I work and most people who come here are able and willing to do so if given the chance.The people on this forum who are suggesting that the heroes of the RNLI should let any human being die at sea because they are somehow "alien" are the one who are writing off human beings and they should be ashamed.

Mary McCue ● 25d

You are suggesting that people should DIE, because you don't want them coming here.  That is what is repugnant.

Mary McCue ● 25d

*boat's*

Michael Ixer ● 25d

Can you quote your source for the following statement:"costing the UK taxpayer billions in benefit payment and accommodation charges" - where did you get that number?  billions is a pretty big number.. sounds hyberbolic and maybe it was a daily mail headline.  If you have a legitimate source for that statement, I'm all ears, let me know. But I need a specific reference to a fact, not a Daily Mail headline.

Mary McCue ● 25d

Sorry if you think that is "priggish"... I place a certain value on human life.  Guess that makes me "priggish" and "self-righteous" or maybe that makes me human and compassionate.

Mary McCue ● 25d

Who was paying the hotels that house them and feed them 3 times a day, give them phones, doctors treatment dentists. I think you just want to let off steam about something or other. Perhaps you are not getting all these benefits. Who pays for cleaning their rooms in a hotel. Who pays for Security. I could go on and on but I'm sure your not listening. How do they pay in the first place for their dinghy to get here. Also some already have fancy watches and rings. Why are they just being let in to Britain. People at airports have their bags weighed looked into if suspicious. Mary your not looking into all the details, why are they coming here because they are given everything. Other countries won't give them anything. They have to have a job earn so much you just can't go to another Country. Jerseybyears ago you couldn't move there till you had about £250,000 in your pocket. So why should we have them trash here.

Barbara Stevens ● 24d

@Mary McCue 04.00You got yourself into a right(eous) old state!😸  Perhaps you need to get more sleep?🥱

Sue Hammond ● 24d

Jonathan, it is disingenuous to suggest that Britain was able to send illegal migrants back to France before Brexit. For example, between 1 January 2019 and 1 October 2020, when the Dublin Rules lapsed, a total of 231 cross-Channel migrants were returned to the EU out of around 4000 migrants who made the crossing. At present even within the EU fewer than 30% of deportation orders are successfully carried out. And those that receive deportation orders are a small proportion of the total number of migrants.The law of the sea, which requires ships to pick up people from sinking or unseaworthy or overloaded boats, only seems to be interpreted in one direction. France is quite happy to let migrants leave in such boats and even escorts them to British waters, but then Britain is obliged to rescue the migrants. How does that work? International cooperation will not work because countries such as France and Belgium have not motive to stop migrants leaving their shores. Once they leave they are no longer France or Belgium's problem, they are Britain's.

Steven Rose ● 24d

Ms McCue' If you have a legitimate source for that statement, I'm all ears, let me know. But I need a specific reference to a fact, not a Daily Mail headline.'Then please say which media source of information and comment you find legitimate for people to quote and you to respond to .

John Hawkes ● 24d

So they were sending people back, if not all of them. As for the rest, if they claimed asylum here they would have to be processed here.International cooperation is the only way. I agree it's been difficult but the French (and the Belgians) will only change their ways if we negotiate and reach a mutually acceptable agreement.  There is now UK-funded security on some French beaches which is why the most recent launches have been further west.  They have helped reduce the numbers crossing this year.I do not believe the French would let people drown out there any more than we do. Is there any evidence that they have done that?  Some have drowned on the French side, I know, but that is a risk the smugglers take with other people's lives.  Some have drowned on our side too, despite best efforts.What other way do you suggest to deal with the crisis?  The Royal Navy "solution" being pushed by Reform is unworkable.

Jonathan Callaway ● 24d

Who encourages them to come here in the first place. It's been going on to long. How  is is England compared to all the other Countries. It is all dangerous men who are coming here.

Barbara Stevens ● 24d

Meant to say how big is England to all the other Countries. Whybdonwe have to be overrun with them.

Barbara Stevens ● 24d

Mr Callaway'The “solution” offered by Reform of deploying the Royal Navy is frankly illegal (under international law) and unworkable. We simply can’t send our navy uninvited into French waters and they certainly won’t be issuing an invitation.'If we are being invaded by illegal immigrants (and invaded is the correct term for people coming into our country illegally and uninvited) why can we not use our armed forces to stop them ?One shudders to think that the milquetoast objectors on this Forum would have said in WWII when we fought back the Nazi invasion in the air and at sea.

John Hawkes ● 24d

The evidence is that the French authorities watch passively as migrants, often with children, climb on to overloaded and unseaworthy boats and then escort them to British waters, whereas the law of the sea requires that they should be immediately rescued in such circumstances, a law only respected by the British Border Force and the RNLI apparently.The only way to stop these daily invasions is to deter the migrants from attempting to cross the Channel in the first place. Migrants are rational. They are not going to give people smugglers large sums of money if they have no chance of reaching the UK. One method of deterrence is to revive the Rwanda scheme, an idea currently being explored by other European countries. Another would be for the UK to announce  in advance that they will suspend rescue operations in the Channel for all those who deliberately invite  shipwreck. The RNLI was created to help people who get in trouble at sea through misfortune or inexperience, not those who try to blackmail the British authorities into rescuing them from dangerous dinghies.

Steven Rose ● 24d

Mr Callaway'International cooperation is the only way. I agree it's been difficult but the French (and the Belgians) will only change their ways if we negotiate and reach a mutually acceptable agreement.'What makes you think that the French and the Belgian governments have any interest in 'co-operation' to reduce the number of aliens leaving their territory to come here ?They are not mugs and doubtless are well aware that their people have no more desire to accommodate illegal immigrants than do the British.And lets face it France already has a large Muslim population responsible for many atrocities.So they are happy to wave them away from their shores in their inflatable cross channel ferries.'The Charlie Hebdo attacks occurred on 7 January 2015, when brothers Chérif and Saïd Kouachi killed 12 people at the Paris offices of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo; the assault formed part of a three‑day wave of terrorist violence in Île‑de‑France that left 17 victims dead'.People don't forget nor should they forgive.

John Hawkes ● 24d

Am I right in thinking that a RNLI rescue boat is launched on a command from the coastguard after receiving a distress call?  So my question is - where are  these calls coming from and who is making them?

Sue Hammond ● 24d

Hello Sue,It would be lovely to know!  As far as I am aware, the Coastguard receives 999 calls from members of the public as well as mayday calls to satellite, VHF and DSC radio distress alerts. HM Coastguard can also be requested by other emergency services to attend or assist incidents, be it via direct relay from other vessels, Border Force, or French authorities.

Ivonne Holliday ● 24d

If we dial 999 who do they dial. Good point Sue. If your on your own boat you have a radio to go on as well don't know about the illegals, Im still unable to understand why RNLI would go 85 miles to pick them up.

Barbara Stevens ● 24d

Your own boat you turn your VHF radio to 16 and do mayday,I know also on trips we can talk to.other boats with us on another Channel

Barbara Stevens ● 24d

Mary, Thank you for reminding us of something that the Forum’s resident bigots don’t seem able to accept: that those arriving in small boats are not “illegals” or merely “immigrants,” but real people with concerns and wishes for a better life, and that the attacks on the RNLI (and, laughably, the RNID!) are vile as well as being completely misplaced.

Richard Carter ● 24d

Really Richard, you got a little friend to agree with. They are all men, tell me where the women have been put. Who gave birth to all these men where are their families. Don't want anything to do with them I suppose, because their better going somewhere else and annoying them. I haven't seen and really skinny ones looking so ill they have not been looked after. They get off the boats smiling and laughing. Well we are not laughing.

Barbara Stevens ● 24d

Ivonne, as I understand from talking to someone from the UK Coastguard at last year's International Security Expo, they can monitor the progress of boats travelling from France using drones and other surveillance measures and interceptors them. If there's a danger of life being lost that can't be handled by the Coastguard then they will contact the RNLI for assistance.

Michael Ixer ● 24d

Hello Michael,The use of drones is rather new, at least when I was working in the maritime world drones were not used widely.  I know they were used for hurricane Katrina but certainly not as widely as they are today.It would be interesting to know who contacts the UK Coastguard to let them know a boat is on its way.  Or do they use drones every day a few times a day, do you know?

Ivonne Holliday ● 24d

I the mpression that using drone, aircraft surveillance was how they found out boats were heading for the UK. Aren't the also looking for Russian spy ships? I'm not sure anyone necessarily tells them boats are on their way, although under the patest agreementI guess the French police will notify them of boats they've failed to stop leaving France.

Michael Ixer ● 24d

Mary is perfectly right that there are some on here who could do with looking up some definitions - there are the ones above and there is also this one:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobiaIf you can't copy and paste (highlight, copy and paste) - try googling.  It's a good definition of xenophobia.

Philippa Bond ● 24d

Perhaps you need to consider the concept of empathy a bit more, or go back to work and intermingle with other types of people?

Mary McCue ● 23d

I'm not quoting sources, you are saying that the UK is spending billions.. what is your source?We spend a few hundred billion on the NHS.. I can't imagine that we are spending anything like that on humanitarian intervention for refugees.So what is your source that says we are spending billions on these unfortunate people, and what are we spending it on?  give me the breakdown if you have it to hand. I'm all ears for actual facts.

Mary McCue ● 23d

Re: "I think you just want to let off steam about something or other. Perhaps you are not getting all these benefits."I don't need those benefits, I am an immigrant, not a refugee. I have been here for 25 years, worked every day of it, paid taxes every day of it.  I have no children, so have not taken school places, I have a modest flat in Putney, I'm not a billionaire.I am an immigrant. That means I came here from somewhere  else, for a reason.  In your world I am a criminal and someone sucking money out of the system.  I can assure you, I am and have been for 25 years, paying into the system, and I have done some good work here for the common benefit. So wow, an immigrant who isn't a criminal that needs to die at sea to save Britain.You don't know who these people on boats are.  Let border control deal with them, but the job of RNLI, which is heroic by the way, has nothing to do with that.

Mary McCue ● 23d

Re: "They are all men, tell me where the women have been put."So, you're OK with immigrants/refugees as long as they are women?

Mary McCue ● 23d

Mary McCue. Look at the size of England to other Countries, how many are we meant to deal with, why are they coming here, because everything in free. Yes they are all mainly men. There was a man lived locally a good 30yrs ago his poor tiny little baby had his face all Burnt of course we would speak to him. But these who are coming now are not coming with good intentions only for their own benefit, Mary McCue why are you sticking up for them, you work and have kept yourself why are you making yourself sound like one of the illegals. Your belittling yourself trying to stick up for them.

Barbara Stevens ● 22d

Looks like dumbo Tommo could be in big trouble for attacking a boat with an emergency worker on it. Some are speculating one potential offence could be life imprisonment- what an idiot endangering the life of an emergency worker.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/danny-tommo-dinghy-channel-migrants-b3054716.html?fbclid=Iwb21leAUgmdljbGNrBSCZw3Bkb2YFZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMzUwNjg1NTMxNzI4AAEegzeSKaV1nmMp8UwVppOpbtVK-I3-qQ8Bp9LCGNZC1TQutp54OyWh7YC86kg_aem_B57xv9k4OYU6at589pDXFw

Michael Ixer ● 22d

The French authorities endanger the lives of all the migrants who are allowed to clamber onto overloaded dinghies and leave their shores.

Steven Rose ● 22d

It's the people smugglers who do that!

Philippa Bond ● 22d

The people smugglers arrange for the migrants to board the dinghies but the French police watch them do it without intervening.

Steven Rose ● 21d

Exactly that Steven.  The French police should be arresting all of them at that point of accessing the water but they have obviously been instructed not to intervene.  The French government has been accepting our millions to stop the boats but they are just taking the pi$$.  Unfortunately our weak government will just keep on sending the French more and more money and nothing will change.

Sue Hammond ● 21d

Ms McCue'I am an immigrant. That means I came here from somewhere  else, for a reason.Might one ask where you are an immigrant from and why you chose the UK to settle ?

John Hawkes ● 21d

Ms McCue'I'm not quoting sources, you are saying that the UK is spending billions.. what is your source?We spend a few hundred billion on the NHS.. I can't imagine that we are spending anything like that on humanitarian intervention for refugees.So what is your source that says we are spending billions on these unfortunate people, and what are we spending it on?  give me the breakdown if you have it to hand. I'm all ears for actual facts.'From Hansard 2023- Question from Yvette Cooper, Labour MP 'To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will make a statement on the publication of the impact assessment on the Illegal Migration Bill'.Reply from Robert Jenrick, the then Conservative Minister for Immigration -"The Illegal Migration Bill is critical to stopping the boats. Its intent is clear: if someone comes to the UK illegally, they should be detained and swiftly returned to their home country if safe, or relocated to a safe third country such as Rwanda. The impact assessment published yesterday makes clear that inaction is simply not an option. The volumes and costs associated with illegal migration have risen exponentially, driven by small boat arrivals. Unless we act decisively to stop the boats, the cost to the taxpayer and the damage to society will continue to grow.The asylum system currently costs £3.6 billion a year and £6 million a day in hotel accommodation, but that is not the true cost of doing nothing. As this impact assessment shows, the cost of accommodating illegal migrants has increased dramatically since 2020. If these trends continued, the Home Office would be spending over £11 billion a year, or £32 million a day, on asylum support by the end of 2026. In such a scenario, the Bill would only need to deliver a 2% deterrence in arrivals to enable cost savings.The figure of £11 billion is an extraordinary amount of money—nearly 10 times the amount of money the taxpayer spent on the asylum system as recently as 2021—and anyone opposing this Bill needs to explain how they would pay those costs. Given the Labour party’s opposition to this Bill, it represents another £11 billion black hole in its fiscal plans.The impact assessment suggests that passing this Bill could directly save the UK taxpayer over £100,000 for every illegal migrant deterred from making a small boat crossing. It also finds that the Bill could lead to a much wider set of benefits—including reducing pressures on local authorities, public services and the housing market—that could not be monetised, meaning that the savings will in fact be much greater.The British public are clear that they want to stop the boats. That is why we must keep using every tool at our disposal to do just that and to secure our borders, and why this Bill must become law.'Moving the illegal immigrants to Rwanda for processing their asylum claims and then if necessary deorting them back to thie homelands was of course cancelled by the incoming Labour Government.But note the latest estimate of illegal immigration costs -'The latest figure for the 2023-2024 cost of 'tackling illegal migration' is £6.6bn. This indicated a rise from the 2023/24 Main Estimates budget which sought £1.45bn, according to the Supplementary Estimates Memorandum (2023/24) for the Home Office'. - GB NewsWe do indeed spend £242 billion on the NHS (which illegal immigrants can take advantage of by the way) but this is funded by tax and NI payments from British citizens.

John Hawkes ● 21d

Mr Carter'those arriving in small boats are not “illegals” or merely “immigrants,” but real people with concerns and wishes for a better life'As a resident Forum bigot rather than a warm hearted compassionate progressive like you (excepting of course when it comes to the topic of Israel and Jews when your antisemitism shows through) might I put forward the following opinion.Those that object to this tide of immigration (which however I do concede the Labour Government is cutting back), do so in the main because most such arrivals do not share our culture and beliefs; many (most ?) are young males with no job prospects and per capita commit more crime than the indigenous British population; and basically British objectors do not understand and are suspicious as to why they choose to come here having passed through many EU countries who could accommodate them just as well as us.And stop using Mr Ixer's diversionary tactic of clutching your pearls and feigning shock and horror at what some extremists did regarding the RNLI.No one of any sense, I repeat no one supports what they did.But they are not extreme right wing fascists as I have no doubt you would describe them, but frustrated and misguided citizens concerned over, to them, the Government's inactivity regarding this matter.But they are a warning of what might grow into a bigger protest movement unless the alien invasion is not taken in hand.

John Hawkes ● 21d

That's right - they do nothing at allhttps://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16148719/French-police-slash-migrant-dinghy-beach-asylum-seekers-land-Dover-crossing-Channel.htmlOh.

Michael Brigo ● 21d

The French police might occasionally slash a dinghy before it has left the shore but they have been instructed not to intervene when migrants are clambering onto any dinghy which is already in the water. The police simply escort the migrants to British territorial waters even though adults on board are risking the lives of children. Oh.

Steven Rose ● 21d

oooh la la

Michael Brigo ● 21d

RE: "why are you sticking up for them, you work and have kept yourself why are you making yourself sound like one of the illegals. Your belittling yourself trying to stick up for them."Because Barbara, I am a human being who believes that all human beings deserve respect and dignity.  If that makes me sound "illegal" so be it.

Mary McCue ● 21d

No you may not. that is none of your business and is irrelevant to the discussion.

Mary McCue ● 21d

But I applaud your attempt at curiosity

Mary McCue ● 21d

Going back to the origin of this thread, which was the attacks on RNLI volunteers, presumably because they were saving lives that some people on this forum do not believe are worth saving.The RNIL is a heroic institution with unbelievably courageous volunteers. It is disgusting that the RNLI has become a political football for xenophobes

Mary McCue ● 21d

Please excuse the self-righteousness and priggish-ness of my clearly inappropriate responses to date. sorry that I can't confirm your daily mail viewpoint.I just think that people should look at each other as people, not "other than me".  I'm surprised that people who live in Putney, ie London, are not already attuned to accepting immigrants. this city is a beautiful and rich tapestry of humanity, I love going down the street and hearing a dozen languages.. Diversity is a good thing.  And I can't understand at all, why the heroic RNLI is somehow having to explain themselves and put extra security on the self-less people who keep it running.

Mary McCue ● 21d

Hello Mary,I do not think that the RNLI needs to explain itself.  It does what it does and very heroically too.I think the problem or confusion is on language used.  One thing is talking about immigrants and another about migrants.I do not believe there is a problem with immigrants as they are legally in the UK.  Migrants on the other hand are not so, be they refugees or assylum seekers.  But at the moment it seems appears that the volume of migrants is worrying and unnacceptable.  But it is certainly not the RNLI's fault!

Ivonne Holliday ● 21d

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THOSE BOATS. and now you are calling them Nazis.They are starving, probably trafficked, and you call them invaders akin to the Nazis. Go to church. Stop reading the Daily Mail.

Mary McCue ● 21d

Meanwhile the petition has been signed by almost 150,000 people. It’s here: https://act.38degrees.org.uk/act/rnli-thanks-eoi

Jonathan Callaway ● 21d

Thank you Ivonne, I agree.. but the only difference between immigrants and migrants is two letters, and a lot of circumstance.  I understand that migration is an issue that some people are worried about, but what I am hearing on this forum is not worry.. it's hatred.  that migrants on boats should be left to die, and the RNLI, which is completely privately funded and costs not one P of taxpayer money, should not be doing what they do to save these people from dying and that the people who volunteer! who put their lives at risk! should be subjected to these bigots' torment and disruption of their very noble lives. even when the RNLI will risk their lives to save some stupid Brit on holiday who goes for a walk on the beach without checking tide times.  I appreciate the difference between immigrant and migrant (I would call them refugees), but the human compassion principle does not change in my view. Whatever label you put on the person, they are still a human being and we don't know anything about how they got to where they are.  These forums are not good places to discuss these issues, because they are mostly driven by a few people who want to spout off about their bigoted certainties without being challenged.  I'm signing off now, because to continue in this thread will have an effect on my mental health.

Mary McCue ● 20d

How amusing to see stalwart patriot Daniel Thomas (who presents himself as Danny Tommo) arraigned in court yesterday on charges including causing criminal damage to a rubber boat, reduced to sobbing his poor little heart out!  Even better, his QC claimed there was no evidence to support the charges - when Thomas had already posted video showing him attacking the boat. Clearly not the brightest of sparks....

Richard Carter ● 19d

Ms McCue'I love going down the street and hearing a dozen languages..'Well I don't.If people want to live here they should speak our language if only out of common courtesy.'Diversity is a good thing'. Please explain why.It's not allowed in Islamic countries.What benefit has accrued from the dilution of our British heritage ?What have you contributed from the country and culture you come from ?'I'm surprised that people who live in Putney, ie London, are not already attuned to accepting immigrants. this city is a beautiful and rich tapestry of humanity'.Perhaps they recall what you choose to forget.That many Londoners were killed by Islamic immigrants in the last decade and even today British Jews live in fear of them.

John Hawkes ● 19d

Ms MacCue'what I am hearing on this forum is not worry.. it's hatred.  that migrants on boats should be left to die, and the RNLI, which is completely privately funded and costs not one P of taxpayer money, should not be doing what they do to save these people from dying 'Utter self-righteous twaddle.1) Migrants should not be risking their own lives by invading our shores2) They should not be left to die even if they have put themselves and the RNLI members in danger.3) That is because we British and our culture in general have a huge amount of humanity which many of these immigrants do NOT show when they attack our women and girls.4) The RNLI is a much revered British institution put in an invidious situation by illegal immigrants and their appalling behaviour.5) The immigrants are economic migrants and not fleeing oppressive regimes.6) The French are laughing all the way to the bank that we are paying them to halt the flow. It is not in their interest to do so.

John Hawkes ● 19d

Mr Carter'Even better, his (Daniel Thomas) QC claimed there was no evidence to support the charges - when Thomas had already posted video showing him attacking the boat. Clearly not the brightest of sparks....'Typical West Putney snobbery.But he has not been accused of and jailed for rape and sexual assault as a large number of illegal immigrants to whom you give vociferous support have been.

John Hawkes ● 19d

Ms MacCue'No you may not. (Ask her nationality) that is none of your business and is irrelevant to the discussion.'So we can assume you are a British citizen for otherwise you are poking your nose into an issue that is no concern of yours.That makes your nationality relevant.Perhaps your own country is not squeaky clean on this topic.This is a British problem and as an open minded nation we naturally let you voice your opinion whatever your nationality.But we also realise that it carries as much weight as were it to come from any other foreign national.

John Hawkes ● 19d

"'I love going down the street and hearing a dozen languages..'Well I don't."Really John, you think all visitors to London should be forced to speak English?Perhaps living in a large, cosmopolitan city isn't for you?

Michael Brigo ● 19d

Mr Brigo'Really John, you think all visitors to London should be forced to speak English?'Yet another disingenuous comment.We are not talking about visitors, tourists or such as yourself who had a right to come to live here and have obviously made an effort to integrate into British society, but thousands of illegal immigrants who will probably have nothing culturally in common with us, will live in their own ghettos and some of them commit horrendous crimes.Don't gaslight.

John Hawkes ● 19d

Well ask yourself a question.Do you think Mary was talking about how she loves hearing the different languages of "thousands of illegal immigrants" when walking down the street? Or do you think she was just making a comment about how it's nice to live in a cosmopolitan city?

Michael Brigo ● 19d

Mr Brigo'Do you think Mary was talking about how she loves hearing the different languages of "thousands of illegal immigrants" when walking down the street?Or do you think she was just making a comment about how it's nice to live in a cosmopolitan city?'Rather than seek my interpretation why don't you ask the lady herself ?Cosmopolitanism has its downside.'Data from London probation and prison systems show that individuals convicted of knife offences are also disproportionately from Black and Asian backgrounds' Source City HallI think that most illegal immigrants are of the same ethnic and cultural background so it is possible the crime rate could well rise.But Labour Home Secretary has plans to control matters.BBC News"Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood has unveiled what has been billed as the biggest changes to tackle illegal migration "in modern times".The package, modelled on the stricter approach brought in by Denmark's centre-left government, makes refugee status temporary, narrows the appeal process and threatens visa bans on countries that block returns".

John Hawkes ● 19d

I too dislike hearing languages other than English spoken.Mr Hawkes point about Blacks and Asians committing more crime simply proves the point that it's time to consider remigration.Bring on a Restore government and let's get this country back on it's feet.

James Davidson ● 19d

This country is built on migration over the years.  The first Brit is believed to have had dark skin and blue eyes.People migrated here after from Europe.  The Romans brought soldiers who were black over here.Many of those that you hear speaking in foreign languages CAN ALSO speak English!  It is the lack of education here and the lack of aspiration that makes people so xenophobic.The joke for years has been that when the British went abroad all they had to do to request something in a bar or a shop was to ask for it in a much louder voice!Should the British stop going abroad at all for their holidays or business or anything else?

Philippa Bond ● 19d

We want our country back, sooner than later.

Barbara Stevens ● 19d

Exactly, boot them out. Born here or not.

James Davidson ● 19d

Ms Bond'Many of those that you hear speaking in foreign languages CAN ALSO speak English! 'So why don't they unless they do not want to integrate to the country they have chosen to settle in and have been allowed to do so ?'It is the lack of education here and the lack of aspiration that makes people so xenophobic.'Are you referring to we indigenous British or to immigrants ?

John Hawkes ● 19d

Ms McCue'YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THOSE BOATS.'So who are they and why do they want to come here ?'They are starving, probably trafficked,'So how come they can afford to pay thousands of pounds to those that ship them into the country ?And why do they not claim asylum in the first countries they happen upon - Spain, Italy, Germany ?I am not calling them Nazis but the invasion of this country by those of an alien culture might be likened to that proposed by Germany in WWII.

John Hawkes ● 19d

Who should go? If you include those born here, then why?  One foreign-born parent? Two?  Foreign-born grandparents? Any exceptions? Asking for a friend.

Jonathan Callaway ● 18d

I was going to ask a similar question, Jonathan. Unfortunately the casual way in which successive governments have permitted mass immigration this century, aggravated by the problem of thousands of people crossing the Channel in small boats and abusing the asylum system, has engendered extreme reactions such as that displayed by James Davidson.

Steven Rose ● 18d

I mean indigenous British people.  I expect that if you just kick people out you will get repercussions from other countries just kicking British people out from there - lots of families split up.Who are the "they" exactly anyway?  Matt Goodwin's statistics have been proven to be rubbish.  Are people too young or just too insular to remember Two and Three Way Family Favourites?We're going to be very much on our own when we have no friends in any other countries and have no-one to help us when the sh*t hits the fan!

Philippa Bond ● 18d

Ms MacCue'You don't know who these people on boats are.'And neither do you and we don't because they slip in illegally and then disappear into our society.Probably into the black economy, where they take the jobs and reduce the wages of indigenous British citizens.Or they live a life of crime.'Let border control deal with them'I take it from this comment that you do believe our border control such as it is should be trying to manage the illegal immigration crisis ?Why don't these immigrants immediately seek asylum and risk the consequences of their claim failing and them having to return to their homeland ?Or perhaps you could advise them as to how, as someone non-British who managed to get THREE British passports.What was the basis of your claim ?'but the job of RNLI, which is heroic by the way, has nothing to do with that'.We all agree on the invaluable work they do and how they should be kept out of political disputes.The main one being "should the UK have the right to control its borders and only allow people to reside here if they follow and are supported by the proper channels.Please drop the faux compassion for the RNLI used to cover your true feelings about illegal immigration.NO ONE has anything but praise for the work they do.It was just unfortunate that a few hot-headed anti-immigration fanatics made ill-conceived comments about them.Their true feelings of support were never given the same prominence by the pro-immigration brigade a member of which you seem  firmly to be.And where are you an immigrant from ?I only ask as it will put your critical comments about this country's immigration policy and procedures into some degree of context.Below are some credible comments regarding public attitude to immigration - legal or illegal from The Migration Observatory at Oxford University.https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration/'Reported attitudes vary depending on the question posed: more people say they would like lower levels of migration than say migration has been bad for Britain.Opposition to immigration fell considerably from around 2013 to the early 2020s, but this trend started to reverse between 2022 and 2026.Immigration has become a more prominent issue for the public since 2022. In July 2026, 43% said immigration was an important issue affecting the UK, more than any other topic.While the British public makes clear distinctions between migrants from different countries, they appear to attach greater importance to migrants’ skills.A majority of the public holds a positive view of migrant workers, international students, and asylum seekers who enter legally. By contrast, 72% hold a negative view of asylum seekers who cross the English Channel on small boats.Younger people and graduates express more positive attitudes to immigration'.You surely must concede that immigration is an issue that is of importance to many ?From the Office for National Statistics.https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/bulletins/publicopinionsandsocialtrendsgreatbritain/latest"Public opinions and social trends, Great Britain: August 2026"'In the latest period (5 to 30 August 2026), the most commonly reported issues facing the UK today continued to be:the cost of living (89%)the NHS (79%)the economy (70%)These have consistently been the most commonly reported issues since we started asking this question in October 2022.Other commonly reported issues in the latest period included:climate change and the environment (62%)immigration (61%)crime (58%)Certainly immigration is not the most concerning issue but none the less is such for many people.Guess it is influenced by where you live and your contact with immigrants or what you read in the media concerning what some of them get up to.

John Hawkes ● 18d

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/cheddar-man-mesolithic-britain-blue-eyed-boy.htmlhttps://www.findmypast.co.uk/blog/history/the-history-of-africans-in-british-recordsSkin colour changes over the years depending on the climate.

Philippa Bond ● 18d

Steven, I agree these views are extreme, as is much that Rupert Lowe and his party assert. Ethno-nationalism I believe it’s called. However, I don’t think you can label this or past governments as casual in their approach to controlling immigration, with the possible exception of the Johnson regime. Going back decades, I remember a former colleague who had been born in what is now Iraq to parents in the overseas service of the Foreign Office. His parents had both been born in India, as the children of British employees of the (then British) government of India. When my colleague’s daughter married (she too had been born outside the UK) she had to make sure her children, when they came along, were born in the UK otherwise they would no longer have been eligible for British passports. And would have had to apply to become British citizens. Yet they are their whole family were obviously British. So controls have been around for a long time. Could they have been tightened much more and much earlier? Quite possibly, but all I can say is that as an increasing user of the NHS, thank goodness we are bringing people in from all over the world to fill the gaps our education and training systems have created. Just how long would waiting lists be otherwise?Endless economic studies attest to the value added by immigrants who have moved to and are working in this country. That value is not just in terms of the tax take and economic growth, but also in enriching our culture. Obviously a lot of people don’t see it that way and equally obviously much more needs to be done to control illegal immigration. Dare I mention (again) the stats on boat crossings this year? Over 40% down. Someone should tell the jailbird Tommo and his thuggish acolytes that it’s getting better not worse on the current government’s watch.

Jonathan Callaway ● 17d

Well I am afraid one of the illegals kidnapped a young lady after raping her and was bringing her here. Also Russians have been found on the Dinghys. Perhaps the RNLI can give you a free ride to Normandy save you paying to get there. Let's all try it, you going to France great can I cadge lift. Bet you will need your passport.  So all these illegals don't pay for passports and get free dentists, doctors, food, roof over their heads.

Barbara Stevens ● 17d

There was one Russian on one boat. He’s in custody you’ll be relieved to know, while they work out whether he’s a spy or a refuge.  He may just be a draft dodger. In fact all those crossing on dinghies are kept in holding facilities while they are processed.

Jonathan Callaway ● 17d

The population of the UK has increased by around 10 million since 2000, Jonathan, mostly because of mass immigration. This has placed a huge burden on the infrastructure, especially housing. Yes, immigrants have contributed to areas such as the NHS and social care but not all of them have made a positive contribution. If immigrants earn less than £28 000 per tear, they are likely to take out more in benefits of various kinds than they pay in taxes. It's time now to restrict the number of people coming into the country while ensuring that British people are trained to carry out essential jobs.

Steven Rose ● 17d

Much as I hate to rely on Google AI, I will quote from its answer to the question “what is the net economic impact of migration since 2000?”, with all the usual caveats. QuoteImmigration to the UK since 2000 has delivered a net positive contribution to public finances and overall economic growth, according to major studies by researchers at University College London (UCL) and the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC).European Union Contributions: European Economic Area (EEA) immigrants who arrived between 2000 and 2011 contributed over £20 billion more in taxes than they received in state benefits and transfers.Non-EU Contributions: Non-EU immigrants arriving during that same 2000–2011 window provided a net positive boost of £5 billion to public finances.Benefit Usage: Research directed by Christian Dustmann at the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) showed that immigrants arriving after 2000 were 45% less likely to claim state benefits or tax credits than native-born residents.Skilled Work Visas: Recent Migration Advisory Committee analysis shows that skilled worker cohorts arriving in recent years generate a large net positive lifetime fiscal contribution per main applicant.Aggregate GDP Growth: Higher net migration increases total economic output and GDP, while the effect on GDP per person varies based on labor participation and capital investment.UnquoteIt is obviously a highly complex area and many of the stats are estimates, but my point holds: net migration is a net benefit to the economy. Migration to the UK is becoming more difficult if you’re not a high earner or filling a job vacancy in the NHS or care sectors. So numbers are falling, also because not being able to bring family members is proving a deterrent. All the above relates to fiscal benefits. I think we should value more highly the cultural diversity people from Europe and beyond bring to these shores. It is ironic that a lot of those most vehemently opposed to immigrants  live in areas where immigration has barely impacted them.

Jonathan Callaway ● 17d

Your definition of benefits is rather narrow, Jonathan. Benefits don’t just  mean welfare payments  like universal credit. They include access to all the things which the British state provides for its citizens including free health care, free schooling, subsidised university education, social housing, subsidised public transport and so on. Individuals including immigrants who earn less than £28k per year make a negative fiscal contribution to the economy because, even if they are not in receipt of welfare payments, what they pay in tax is less than what it costs to maintain them.You also overlook the housing shortage, which has been exacerbated by the huge increase in population since the millenium. The deficit stands at around 2 million homes. At present over 1 million people are on social housing waiting lists.

Steven Rose ● 17d

I think you will find that despite some subsidies that the cost of a university education here is among the highest in Europe, as indeed are the costs of public transport. Turning to housing, I have again asked Google AI to answer the question “what are the causes of the UK housing crisis”.  I don’t completely trust AI (and nor should anyone) but the answer is instructive:QuoteThe UK housing shortage is primarily driven by decades of chronic under-building, restrictive planning laws like the green belt, and a sharp decline in social housing stock:Key Causes of the Housing Shortage• Under-Building: The UK has an estimated housing deficit of millions of homes compared to European averages, with current construction rates falling far below what is needed. Organizations like the Centre for Policy Studies point to a massive structural gap in supply.• Planning System Restrictions: Strict regulations, including green belt policies that ban development near major cities, and an unpredictable, case-by-case planning process make it difficult and risky to build.• Decline in Social Housing: Policies like the Right to Buy scheme sold off hundreds of thousands of council and social homes without adequate replacements being built.• Infrastructure and Skills Gaps: Development is frequently held up by a shortage of construction workers, slow local plan implementation, and a lack of supporting local infrastructure like water and wastewater connections.• Financialisation of Housing: Treatises by groups like the Council for the Protection of Rural England note that treating housing as an investment asset, combined with low interest rates and demand-side subsidies, has continuously fueled price rises.UnquoteNo mention of immigration at all. AI may have a point. Our social housing stock is at an all time low. Councils, rather than admit their failure in this area, are now trying to drive out second home owners in the hope that partly used properties can magically become available to those on council waiting lists. This is happening from Cornwall to Caithness and it will be interesting to see if it solves the problem (which I doubt) without damaging local economies which depend on the spending of those second home owners (which seems very possible if they sell up rather than cough up penal rates of council tax).If you distrust AI then look here: https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/key-homelessness-policy-areas/housing/housing-supplCrisis also makes no mention of immigration as a cause. It is too easy and too lazy to blame immigrants for the housing shortage, or indeed the many other ills of society. Incidentally there is an excellent article in the LRB by Ferdinand Mount, reviewing books on England’s treatment of and attitude to immigrants over many centuries. It’s a bracing read. https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v48/n17/ferdinand-mount/modest-and-misunderstood

Jonathan Callaway ● 16d

It is not lazy but entirely logical to attribute the housing shortage to the fact that the population of the UK has increased by 10 million since 2000. When there are more people to accomodate, it is obvious that there will be greater pressure on the available housing stock. It is also a fact that the population increase is mainly due to net immigration. So it is not a question of blaming immigrants. It's simple mathematics.

Steven Rose ● 16d

Re: Housing shortage, Front page of Forum, woman left without heating for 4 months in emergency accommodation. Why not treat our people the way illegals are treated. Even Somerset Pregnant women had a 2 hr drive to the nearest hospital. Also a friend in Stroud said there are no National Health Dentists. So if you have worked all your life we are paying more and more. Because another NHS dentist in putney did not do a 2 teeth bridge on the NHS it cost me 2 grand. We are treated disgusting, I've worked all my life and paid tax and National Insurance. People who don't work get everything.

Barbara Stevens ● 16d

So AI was making it up? (always possible!)  And Crisis was also making it up (Less likely)?Here's an interesting piece: https://www.cih.org/blogs/dispelling-myths-about-migrants-and-housing/Extract: Migrants are often blamed for housing shortages, but the truth is they stand less of a chance of getting social housing than people born in the UK. Quick facts:Asylum seekers:- Are ineligible for social housing- Are mostly barred from working- Only make up around five per cent of migrants to the UK (the rest are usually short-term visa-holding students and essential workers who often live in tied accommodation)- Receive just £9.95 per week to live on if housed in accommodation such as hotels or army barracks (increased to £49.18 per week to include food and essentials if they live in standard accommodation such as shared housing)UK population growth depends on migration, because births and deaths are broadly in balance – we need growth to boost our economy.Low or zero migration would mean a rapidly ageing UK population with higher demands for financial support (e.g. state pensions) and social care, and fewer working-age people to provide for themOnly one in 10 new social tenancies are allocated to non-UK nationals.Migrants pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits and according to the OBR if net migration fell to zero, public finances would fall by about £20 billion annually.If you read further, here are their headlines:1. Local people receive housing before migrants2. The housing crisis has been caused by fewer homes being built, not migration3. There’s no straightforward link between migration and housing demand4. Migrants have very few rights and access to support5. Asylum seekers aren’t eligible for council housing6. Asylum seekers can’t get council housing nor are most allowed to workThe Chartered Institute of Housing should know what they're talking about.I suggest forming an opinion after reading up on the subject.

Jonathan Callaway ● 16d

Keep it up, folks! I really want to see if this thread can hit the double century mark.....

Richard Carter ● 16d

We have a growing elderly population who don't work as well as a growing elderly population who do work.  We quite simply have a growing elderly population!  Nothing wrong with that as long as they are healthy and happy and want to be here (which unfortunately some don't.)  Many but not all have carried on working because they knew they didn't have enough to live on.  No political party was brave enough to be the one who put up the retirement age for state pensions!  Just look at the fuss over the Winter Fuel Payment which many people did not need.  State pensions aren't often enough to live on anyway especially when the amount you can keep tax free doesn't go up!There is a great shortage of carers and the NHS is short-staffed.  We've had carers for our parents who were immigrants who were highly skilled accountants and teachers but who couldn't get a job here until they had achieved other certificates here too.  We've also had British teenagers who couldn't make a cup of tea let along boil an egg - and whose fault is that?There aren't enough young working people to pay the tax to fund everything we all want now instead of just the basics. There aren't as many part-time jobs. You've seen the way that the part-time checkout jobs that are so important for those who are caring for children, the elderly and the sick have gone.Have you seen this TV programme?  It is quite amusing.  It is about an elderly lady and her robotic carer:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_DroidMy FIL used to have to pay the doctor when he fell over and hurt himself as a child. So the NHS is not that old.It is not true that "People who don't work get everything"!

Philippa Bond ● 16d

Ms Bond'Skin colour changes over the years depending on the climate.'So will our London community of Afro-Caribbeans then soon be white or will our current hot spell prevent this ?

John Hawkes ● 16d

Jonathan, for someone who has criticised the tone of some of the posts on the Forum, your own contributions are sometimes less than courteous, as demonstrated by your latest parting shot, ‘I suggest that you form an opinion after reading up on the subject’, which is rather patronising.I would describe your approach to the topic of housing as tilting at windmills, in that you attribute to me an opinion I don’t hold, namely that migrants are  directly responsible for the housing shortage by taking up all the available homes, and you then proceed to demolish this superficial view by quoting from a somewhat partisan document, containing phrases like ‘don’t fall for the myths’, issued by the Chartered Institute of Housing.Clearly migrants are not directly responsible for the housing crisis by taking up the available homes. As the CIH document points out, asylum seekers and recent migrants are not eligible for social housing. Most migrants live in rented accommodation or share with their family. But it is idle to pretend that the housing crisis has nothing to do with net migration. The fact is that too many people in the UK , whose population has been swelled by recent waves of immigration, are chasing too few homes. For example, in the 10 years between 2014 and 2024, 2 million homes were built but the population increased by over 4 million. Do the math. Now you can say that the fault is with successive governments who have failed to build enough houses. But it is not easy to build affordable homes. The present government, despite having said that housing is a priority, is falling well short of its target of 300 000 new houses per year.As to the contribution made to the economy by immigrants, the figure of £28 000 as the salary necessary to pay enough tax to cover the cost of benefits and public services comes from a landmark study by  Oxford Economics titled ‘The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK’. The previous Conservative government wanted to raise the visa requirement to a salary of £34 500 and eventually £38 700 but Labour has capped it at £29 000.

Steven Rose ● 16d

Steven, I don’t think I’m quite in the league of some our more aggressive contributors, though, whose ad hominem approach to arguing a case is what I find so distasteful. I’m sure you can handle the mildest of criticisms. It may be news to the Chartered Institute of Housing that they are “somewhat partisan”.  Having searched for relevant articles on the subject I thought an industry source rather than one of the many rather more definitely partisan think tanks out there might present a more objective view.I’m not sure I follow your reasoning. “Clearly migrants are not directly responsible for the housing crisis”, yet the levels of immigration since 2000 are responsible for swelling the population… and causing the housing crisis. Perhaps, once again, we will have to agree to disagree, hopefully in an agreeable way of course.

Jonathan Callaway ● 16d

While there is not a direct connection between the housing crisis and immigration, there is an indirect link, Jonathan. Here is an example of what I mean. Recent migrants are not eligible for social housing but those who are given indefinite leave to remain become eligible for the same benefits as UK citizens, including social housing. At present 7 % of those in social housing are foreign nationals. That’s around 800 000 people. Now currently there are 1.34 million households or around 3 million people on the waiting list for social housing. If you were British and one of the 3 million and you noted that over 800 000 people who are not even British citizens are occupying council properties, would you not see a link between the housing shortage and immigration? Would you not be resentful  if someone with ‘progressive’  views on immigration accused you of being stupid and xenophobic for  thinking that way? And would you not be likely to vote for Reform in those circumstances?

Steven Rose ● 16d

Telling stupid and xenophobic people they are stupid and xenophobic is rarely a way to win hearts and minds!I won’t argue with your statistics but there is one missing element. Reform politicians encourage the well entrenched view, wrong though I believe it is, that immigrants are jumping the queue. As you know, nobody likes queue jumpers, whether it is on the waiting list for housing or for the 430 bus. Those new arrivals with indefinite leave to remain may themselves have been waiting years for social or affordable housing, and being given indefinite leave to remain is not something that happens any time soon after arrival.

Jonathan Callaway ● 15d

But are they stupid? They surely5 have good reason to be dissatisfied with the present system which gives priority to foreign nationals over British citizens.

Steven Rose ● 15d

But does the system give such priority?  Is there evidence of that?  I’ve always regarded that as one of the great urban myths. “They come over here … etc”.  We’ve all heard that complaint.

Jonathan Callaway ● 15d

Unfortunately the so called ‘urban myth’ has become the reality and I think civil unrest will follow.

Sue Hammond ● 15d

There you go Jonathan your thread now has 200 posts even though it has morphed into immigration but most people’s main complaint is illegal migrants by boats or lorries.I agree with Sue. People have had enough and this nonsense of “hope” is how they “cope” with their current situations.

Robert Wheeler ● 15d

Perhaps it would have been better if people complaining about  illegal migrants by boats or lorries had set up a separate thread on that.However, on that subject, I don't believe that it's people’s main complaint. According to the ONS's Social Trends' recent report:"the most frequently reported issues facing the UK today continued to be:* the cost of living (90%)* the NHS (80%)* the economy (74%)Other commonly reported issues during this time included international conflict (63%), crime (58%), immigration (56%), housing (54%), and climate change and the environment (54%)."So immigration (and it's not clear what proportion of this specifically concerns small boat arrivals) is well down the list of concerns and is not people's "main complaint."https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/bulletins/publicopinionsandsocialtrendsgreatbritain/april2026#important-issues-facing-the-uk

Richard Carter ● 15d

It works both ways.

Philippa Bond ● 15d

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2024-03-11/why-the-uk-needs-migrant-care-workersThis hugely important most often very low paid work is often done by migrants.  We have a shortfall of about 100,000 carers - and the best ones will be need to actually be capable, responsible and caring! If you don't want immigrants to do this work how are you going to persuade others who can earn more doing less important work to make a career out of this or even do it part-time?

Philippa Bond ● 15d

Ms Stevens'We are treated disgusting, I've worked all my life and paid tax and National Insurance. People who don't work get everything.'Welcome to Burnham Britain !

John Hawkes ● 15d

So far nobody has produced a shred of evidence that immigrants are jumping the queue. If it's so common there must be evidence out there?

Michael Brigo ● 15d

Hello Philippa,I think it was you who suggested in a previous post that we should be careful with terminology, particularly with immigrants, migrants, refugees and assylum seekers.Your post above talks about migrant and immigrants as if they were synonymous.  Whether we like it or not, immigrants suggest they have followed a legal process meaning that they are in the UK legally.Migrants, refugees and assylum seekers on the other hand are associated with people crossing the English Channel by dinghies and arrived at our shores illegally.

Ivonne Holliday ● 15d

The evidence that foreigners are given priority over British people is simply the fact that 7% of those in social housing are foreign nationals. That means that around 800 000 foreigners occupy council properties while around 3 million British citizens are on waiting lists.

Steven Rose ● 15d

That's not evidence at all, because councils allocate social housing based on local housing needs and priority bands, not the nationality if thise allocated. .

Richard Carter ● 15d

If the state restricted social housing to British citizens, then 800 000 British people on waiting lists would be living in homes currently occupied by foreign nationals. It's simple arithmetic. This issue may not be uppermost in the minds of homeowners in Putney, but it's certainly of interest to the millions of British people waiting to be assigned a council property.

Steven Rose ● 15d

But, obtusely, you are ignoring the fact that social housing is allocated according to need, and as such your case is void.Let's take a wholly invented, if extreme case. In the choice between a foreign-born nurse, widowed and with four children and who works in the NHS and a young, unemployed English-born couple with no children, on your argument the latter couple would take precedence. I can't believe you would support this. Would you?

Richard Carter ● 15d

I await evidence that immigrants get priority for social or affordable housing. If someone from elsewhere has indefinite leave to remain, and thus has made their home here, should they be treated equally, treated more favourably or discriminated against?There must be some evidence out there.

Jonathan Callaway ● 15d

I await evidence that immigrants get priority for social or affordable housing. If someone from elsewhere has indefinite leave to remain, and thus has made their home here, should they be treated equally, treated more favourably or discriminated against?There must be some evidence out there.

Jonathan Callaway ● 15d

Hello IvonneThey are all people and it isn't up to us to decide whether they are legal or not.  There is no easy test eg you can't for instance tell by skin colour, sex or age.  There are laws and there are severe penalties for those who are employing illegal workers whether knowingly or not.

Philippa Bond ● 15d

Philippa,You really do go on a tangent when it suits you!I do not think anybody has said they are not people.  Please provide proof of this.A Filipino nurse working in the NHS is very legally working here.  Young men, sometimes women and children, that arrive in dinghies have not arrived in the UK legally.  Most of them have thrown their passports or ID away before reaching the UK shores. I bet you the people living close to hotels where migrants are staying can tell you who they are!  Finally, it is much easier to catch the person employing illegal workers whether knowingly or not than catching the illegal workers themselves!  For one, the employer is identifable while the illegal workers are not.

Ivonne Holliday ● 15d

By definition, Jonathan, if hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals are given social housing while millions of British citizens remain on waiting lists, then some foreigners are being prioritised over Britons. There is a misunderstanding here. When you say you await evidence that foreigners get priority for social or affordable housing, you clearly take priority to mean preferential treatment. I am sure that foreigners don’t get preferential treatment in that sense. Those with unlimited leave to remain in the UK are treated in the same way as British citizens. They have to join the queue and they only receive social housing if they fulfil the criteria set by the local authority.But that begs the question. Should foreign nationals  be allowed to join the queue and compete with British citizens for limited social housing? I don’t think they should. For every home awarded to a foreign national means one less home available for a British citizen. And to be clear, I am not talking about people born abroad who have British passports. I am only referring to foreign nationals who don’t have British citizenship. Richard has invented an extreme example of a widow of foreign nationality with four children who works in the NHS and asks whether she should not take precedence in respect  of social housing over a childless unemployed British couple. My answer would be that, as a general rule, social housing and other benefits such as universal credit should be restricted to British citizens . But I accept that exceptions may need to be made in some cases for foreigners who work in the NHS or social care until such time as British people can be found to do these jobs.

Steven Rose ● 15d

" But I accept that exceptions may need to be made in some cases for foreigners who work in the NHS or social care until such time as British people can be found to do these jobs."Exactly: in other words, the figures you touted earlier (at 13:37:00) that "around 800 000 foreigners occupy council properties while around 3 million British citizens are on waiting lists" are completely meaningless, and you should have the grace to acknowledge that.

Richard Carter ● 15d

Oh ffs this thread is getting totally ridiculous now!  It is far too long and now completely disconnected from its original purpose.  Personally I am bored stiff by you and Jonathan banging on about immigrants and what you say they need and deserve to get.  Lefty bleeding-hearts who prioritise immigrants (the vast majority of whom have no right to be here) over the rights of indigenous British people and quite frankly it make me sick.  I take heart though because it is people like you that will ensure a Reform victory in the next GE.

Sue Hammond ● 15d

Richard and Jonathan, will not see sense till the two off them are on their own stuck in a boat load of them on their own. How many Doctors how many Dentists. But I bet they would cut out your Heart, Liver and kidneys. Anything for money.

Barbara Stevens ● 15d

"Lefty bleeding-hearts who prioritise immigrants"Remains unproven on this thread so far"the vast majority of whom have no right to be here"Also unproven or are you excluding those will right to remain, like EU citizens?

Michael Brigo ● 15d

It is noticeable that those on the Forum who are in favour of immigration continually demand proof that it presents a problem, yet they decry or simply ignore any statistical evidence which is given, mainly, I suspect, because support for immigration has become an article of faith for many on the left.The fact is that 15% of the 8 million Universal Credit claimants and 7% of the 12 million who live in social housing are not UK citizens. That means that while a majority of foreign nationals are paying their own way, a sizeable minority, around a million, are living off the state, costing the taxpayers billions of pounds each year. (Only about a third of these individuals are EU citizens who are entitled to benefits under the Withdrawal Agreement).Immigration is not the greatest problem facing the UK but it is not an unalloyed benefit either. There is good immigration and bad immigration. The kind of migrants we want are those who perform vital services and contribute to the economy, though their number has to be monitored. The migrants we don't want are those who commit crimes and are a burden to the state.

Steven Rose ● 14d

Steven, I do wish you wouldn't keep trying to label people.  If you're not careful you will encourage someone to label me a "lefty bleeding-heart"!I have been arguing that some immigration has been beneficial, that for both economic and demographic reasons we will continue to need immigration.  How is that contentious or indeed "left wing"? I also thought I had made it clear that immigration controls have been in place for many, many years.  Of course it can be argued they should have been tighter, and that they should be tighter in future to try and encourage the highly skilled as distinct from the less skilled.But a lot of opposition to immigration is founded on emotion rather than fact, in my view, and those emotions are getting out of control, as the attacks on the RNLI have made clear, not to mention the sudden and menacing appearance of a large number of masked men in black at Dover, and other street protests by flag-wavers.  Elements of the press and certain politicians are stoking these emotions, but the sometimes wild assumptions do need to be challenged.I agree with your last paragraph.  But I don't agree with your support for refusing to allow "foreign nationals" (undefined - with or without indefinite leave to remain?) to join the queue and compete with British citizens for limited social housing?  That is blatantly discriminatory.

Jonathan Callaway ● 14d

I have no wish to label you, Jonathan. If you wish to deny that you are on the left of the political divide, that is fine by me. But I would point out that some of the views you express are uncannily close to what might be called moderate Labour opinion.When people present opinion as fact or when they dismiss or just ignore evidence contrary to their views, it is safe to assume that they are governed more by faith than reason. An example of the former can be found in your words, ‘I have been arguing that some immigration has been beneficial, that for both economic and demographic reasons we will continue to need immigration. How is that contentious or left wing?’ You assume that immigration is beneficial and necessary as if it were an established fact when it is actually a contentious issue with arguments for and against. An example of the latter is Richard’s assertion, without any accompanying argument, that the figure of around 800 000 foreign nationals living in social housing is ‘meaningless’. I don’t think it is meaningless to British citizens who have been on the waiting list for social housing for several years.I don’t think there is any doubt that supporters of immigration are more likely to be found on the left of the political divide. Both the Conservatives and Reform have advocated stronger immigration controls than Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens. Labour politicians even find it difficult to criticise the migrants who cross the Chanel in dinghies, referring to them as the victims of people smugglers rather than as lawbreakers who morally blackmail the Border Force and the RNLI into taking them to Britain by deliberately courting shipwreck.As to why this is so, my own view, as you know, is that most people on the left have lost their belief in socialism and have replaced it with an ideology based on anti-racism. They demonstrate their virtue by exaggerating the benefits of immigration and decrying the efforts of the Conservatives and Reform to introduce stricter controls. For the bien pensant middle class living in places like Putney, this kind of virtue signalling is cost free, because migrants and asylum seekers are generally sent to less affluent areas.As to discrimination, I think it is the duty of the state to discriminate between citizens and non-citizens. There is no obligation to provide foreign nationals with the same benefits as British citizens except in the context of some reciprocal agreement such as exists between the UK and the EU. Otherwise what is a British passport for? Unfortunately the distinction between citizens and non- citizens has been blurred in recent times by the category of those with indefinite leave to remain, not all of whom have added value to the UK.I accept that some immigration is necessary but in my opinion it should be restricted until such time as the housing crisis is solved. We can’t keep admitting large numbers of people into the country when they have nowhere to live. But I am glad we agree that there is both good and bad immigration.

Steven Rose ● 14d

@Steven 17.50The voice of common sense!👍

Sue Hammond ● 14d

Ms Hammond'I take heart though because it is people like you that will ensure a Reform victory in the next GE'.I would not be too sure.Burnham is already playing the emotional card.Read Richard Littlejohn's article in todays Mail."I thought the way in which he milked his family background and exploited his father’s death was mawkish and distasteful.Call me callous, and anyone who loses a parent deserves our sympathy. But the place to grieve is in private, not to parade your grief onstage for political gain. As the late columnist John Junor, formerly of this parish, used to remark: Pass the sick bag, Alice'.I think such emotional background to Labour's next election manifesto will go down well in a Britain now full of weepy softies all believing they are having a terrible time of it.Those receiving benefits because 'mental health issues' prevent them working being a case in point as is the undeserved sympathy for illegal immigrants.Burnham is emotionally their perfect champion. Couple this with an anti-Israel/anti-US and pro-Islamist Labour foreign policy of Ed Miliband that will have a strong pull with the 16s (when they get the vote) to 30ish demography and he could well be a winner.In a way I would like this to happen and Labour's policies put to the test and scrutiny.The Budget should be interesting especially for Labour's West Putney supporters ! 

John Hawkes ● 14d

Steven complains that people here who are in favour of immigration “continually demand proof that it presents a problem, yet decry or simply ignore any statistical evidence which is given” – and then proceeds to tell us blandly that 15% of the 8 million Universal Credit claimants and 7% of the 12 million who live in social housing are not UK citizens, as if somehow this was unjustifiable and those non UK citizens are living a life of luxury on the rest of us. Well, any competent mathematician commenting on social issues would realise that it is insufficient to quote broad statistics without trying to understand them.  So, in the case of Universal Credit, Home Office figures show that virtually a third (32%) of people drawing it are actually in work, the reason they are eligible being the fact that their wages are so low. So a bit less emphasis on the sweeping figures in future, please!

Richard Carter ● 14d

Richard, I have not said that foreign nationals who live in social housing or claim Universal Credit are living a life of luxury. But by definition they are a burden on the state both in terms of the subsidies received and the fact they do not pay enough in tax to cover the cost of the services they consume.

Steven Rose ● 13d

I seem to recall some 50 years ago when i was on the dole for 6 weeks that you got nothing fir the first week and any dole money was graduated on a calculation of e earnings, similar to sickness pay.It seems now you never have to contribute through work and get the same benefits as thisd who may well have contributed for many years.  Maybe we should look at a default position of nowt in nowt out.Too many look at benefits as a lifestyle option.How can it be that someone with a family and a mortgage on a decent salary takes home less than another family member who has no mortgage, gets his rent paid and has no intention of getting out of bed in the morning. ( this is a real scenario within my own wider family)

Andy Pike ● 13d

I seem to recall some 50 years ago when i was on the dole for 6 weeks that you got nothing fir the first week and any dole money was graduated on a calculation of e earnings, similar to sickness pay.It seems now you never have to contribute through work and get the same benefits as thisd who may well have contributed for many years.  Maybe we should look at a default position of nowt in nowt out.Too many look at benefits as a lifestyle option.How can it be that someone with a family and a mortgage on a decent salary takes home less than another family member who has no mortgage, gets his rent paid and has no intention of getting out of bed in the morning. ( this is a real scenario within my own wider family)

Andy Pike ● 13d

Again, we get this anti-immigrant stuff from Steven, cosily wrapped up in some pretence at fairness. It was on display last night in Question Time, with Suella Braverman playing the same ugly tunes. It’s particularly unpleasant coming from the second-generation immigrant “Pull the ladder up, I’m aboard” brigade – Zia Jusuf is another of the many. The debate last night revolved around Braverman’s claim that you couldn’t be English (only British) if you didn’t have an (unspecified) number of English grandparents. Whatever that might mean, it could exclude rather a lot of people - and there was also the suggestion that Rishi Sunak couldn’t be English because he’s a brown Hindu.All rather unedifying, and the irony is that there is probably a minuscule number of “white English” as the population includes a stream of incomers over the centuries: starting with Jewish refugees in the 20th century, then those from both Bonaparte regimes, the Normans (someone mentioned 1066 to great hilarity last night), the Vikings, the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons – and what about the Saxon part them (they were from Germany for goodness sake so are immediately suspect!) and so on and on, until you end up with whatever the original inhabitants of the islands were (Celts, presumably). All that simply illlustrates the futility of  trying to define “true Englishness.”A reading of Robert Winder’s “Bloody foreigners, The Story of Immigration to Britain” is a good start for a bit of perspective here….

Richard Carter ● 13d

Steven, I have very little more I can say on this topic without repeating myself.  And I wouldn't want to bore Sue any more than I already have.Uncannily close to "moderate Labour opinion".  Could be worse accusations I suppose.I see you have reverted to talking about "bien pensant middle class living in places like Putney" and "virtue signalling".  I live in Putney, but I'm not sure how many of your other stock phrases apply to me.  They are too pejorative.Anyway, it's been an illuminating discussion, if, inevitably, inconclusive.

Jonathan Callaway ● 13d

Worth remembering that the King's father was born in Greece of Danish, German and Greek extraction.  And the House of Windsor was once the German House of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha. Rather shows how absurd these arguments are.

Jonathan Callaway ● 13d

How strange Jonathan, they were white then, not Gambian, Somalian, wasn't it a while ago ordinary boaters and Cruise boats were being attacked by them. Now we are, or you just hoping you won't be. What about Captain Irish with Tom Hanks.

Barbara Stevens ● 13d

True.  Does the lineage of King's mother not count at all?

Ivonne Holliday ● 13d

“Burnham is already playing the emotional card”Didn’t he ever!?! 🙄  In his Conference speech he flogged it to death.  Mawkish sentiments certainly flowed: about his Grandparents and Parents, culminating with a reference to the recent demise of his Father which set the scene perfectly for his tearful moment.😢  Give the man an Oscar!  The hall fell silent as his audience emoted with him.  I expect that Haigh and Powell, his two fiercest female defenders and competing for maximum brownie points, probably squeezed out a few crocodile tears as well.  Chief Weeper Rache From Complaints probably collapsed with grief …

Sue Hammond ● 13d

Wow, Richard. So England has been invaded by all sorts of different groups, Anglo-Saxons and Normans and so on. Well I never. Where do you find all these amazing facts? You really have knocked for six all those bigots on the Forum who think there is such a thing as a white English race. When you have a moment, perhaps you could also  find some arguments to confound that irritating man, Rose I think his name is, who has been arguing that over a million of the 13 million foreign nationals in this country are in receipt of benefits.

Steven Rose ● 13d

I am a British citizen for 20 years now and I have made this my beloved home for 26 years.  The rest of my life is none of your business and irrelevant to the discussion.Thank you so much for letting me voice my opinion, very magnanimous of you. Btw. when I became a British citizen, I had to take a test to prove my understanding of what it means to be British.. and then I had to stand in Wandsworth Town Hall and swear my allegiance to the Queen (at the time) and her heirs and successors.  And I did swear that oath.  Not one person who was born here has done that.And much of what I am hearing from you tells me that what I learned about what it means to be British hasn't filtered down into your worldview.

Mary McCue ● 13d

@ John HawkesI think your life would be more fulfilling if you stopped fixating on immigrants.  I don't know who those people on the boats are and neither do you, yet you spout a page of "they are probably this" or "this will probably happen".Get a hobby. Learn guitar or piano.  None of those people on those boats is going to crash your life. Stay involved in politics, but stop demonizing human beings to make your point.

Mary McCue ● 13d

you probably need professional help.

Mary McCue ● 13d

So you want to live in an Islamic country where every individual is controlled by the state?  great argument.

Mary McCue ● 13d

Maybe they just got prosecuted more.

Mary McCue ● 13d

More likely that all the pasty Brits will become black by visiting tanning salons.

Mary McCue ● 13d

The RNLI is heroic.  Save your vinegar and leave them out of it. Get a hobby

Mary McCue ● 13d

Can someone please explain to me what all these "benefits" are that I am supposed to be receiving as a immigrant? what is "universal credit"?? what is "winter fuel allowance"?  I read about these things in the news, but I have never understood who gets them? how does one qualify?I've never needed them or used them , but the existence of them seems to incite a lot of rage against immigrants..

Mary McCue ● 13d

Perhaps lay off the wine …🤪

Sue Hammond ● 12d

Two Iranian nationals who arrived in the UK in small boats have been charged with preparing acts of terrorism against the Jewish community in Manchester. No doubt both were 'rescued' by the Border Force or the RNLI. One was subsequently granted asylum while the asylum claim of the other is ongoing. Even if they are convicted, it is likely that the ECHR will prevent them being deported to Iran after they have served their sentence.

Steven Rose ● 12d

Mary McCue, I've been here born here and am English, I went to school in Sheen, my dad was in the Royal Navy in WW2. Why if we were born here would we have to we were taught to respect our elders, be polite. Speak when your spoken to, ask to leave the table. What knives and forks to use, take your spoon backwards when eating soup. Help your mum pod the peas, Polish the cutlery on Sundays. My dad would Polish my little shoes, wouldn't take me out in trousers because I was a little girl. We only had a couple in our school an Indian girl and a Chinese who we treated the same as anybody else. But how are children now treated. How are children now in school told to treat others.

Barbara Stevens ● 12d

Good morning Mary,Benefits are a complex issue and I am not an expert.  I understand that "universal credit" is a means-tested benefit paid monthly to people on low income, out of work or unable to work.  It helps people with living and housing costs.  I do not know, in monetary terms, what low income is.  Perhaps Googling it could help? The winter fuel allowance is a yearly-payment to retired people to help them with heating costs.You mentioned in one of your posts that you have been a British citizen for some time.  You may apply for the universal credit if you need it or forfeit the winter fuel allowance if you do not need it.  But the key question here is that you have been a resident in the UK for quite a few years and your are a British citizen.  I do not believe there is a rage against immigrants who arrived in the UK legally, who work and contribute to society.  The rage is against those people who come into the country illegally, they are normally called migrants and who claim full benefits but make no contribution.

Ivonne Holliday ● 12d

Hello Mary,It would be helpful if you could indicate who you are replying to in your posts.This thread is so long and the replies have so many "Re"(your reply has 17!) it is difficult to go back to all those messages to see who you may be replying to.By the way, I do not think anybody is saying that the RNLI is not heroic.  Some people are incredibly critical about the RNLI as they think it "provides a taxi service to the boat people".  I disagree with this view as it lacks understanding and knowledge as to what the RNLI actually do.

Ivonne Holliday ● 12d

Mary, this moment is extremely childish. Why would we need to visit with the high temperatures we have had this year. What has this got to do with the RNLI. If you have a problem with British people why stay here.

Barbara Stevens ● 12d

And all those questions you have, about who these people are and whether they should be allowed to live here.Should your fear of the other be the criteria on which the UK tells the RNLI to just let them die because we can't be bothered? They are scary to us, so just let them die at sea.

Mary McCue ● 11d

Thank you Ivonne.  You seem to be one of the reasonable people. I guess my question is.. I have been here for 25 years as an immigrant, naturalised citizen for coming on to 20 years.  I don't have a clue about the benefits system because I have never needed it even though I have paid into it every day since I arrived on these shores.How does a migrant coming by boat who doesn't speak the language know how to claim benefits in a system that I can't comprehend after 25 years?  I don't think the migrants are coming here to claim benefits.  They are desperate people trying to find a life.They do not deserve to be left to die at sea as a punishment for that.Going back to the original post.

Mary McCue ● 9d

"No doubt both were 'rescued' by the Border Force or the RNLI."Evidence?Are there no criminals in Britain who were born here? What was the name of that bloke in Yorkshire who killed a bunch or women?  Is the British DNA so pure? Is every migrant a criminal and terrorist?That is fear talking, not facts or evidence.

Mary McCue ● 9d

There but for the grace of God go I.

Mary McCue ● 9d

Yes, much better to concentrate on the supposed "threat" from migrants whilst ignoring the fact that significant numbers of those taking part in the riots in 2024 and subsequently to defend our women and children are themselves violent domestic abusers, convicted of rape, coercive control, harrassment and other crimes. Such fine, upstanding patriots!

Richard Carter ● 8d

Yes, we have plenty of homegrown criminals in this country but that is not a reason for importing criminals from abroad, especially not those planning mass attacks.

Steven Rose ● 8d

But surely we all know we have criminals, who we hopefully know are locked up. Oh I forgot they are letting them all out abusers as well. Oh I forgot the Government hasn't any sense their letting more into our Country. Oh I forgot, they are are locking all ordinary people up for saying boo.

Barbara Stevens ● 8d

As so often, whataboutery. Are you not concerned that so many of the supposed protectors of "Are women and children" are themselves violent abusers or worse? Please address the issue.

Richard Carter ● 8d

I would say, Richard, that it is you are avoiding the issue by focusing on the mindless idiots and criminals  who abuse RNLI volunteers rather than the fundamental problem that Britain is unable to protect its borders.

Steven Rose ● 8d

My comnent was not about those who abuse RLNI volunteers but the brutes who masquerade as protectors of our women and girls from abuse whilst they themselves are abuser of their own families

Richard Carter ● 8d

@ Stephen Rose.  Britain is perfectly capable of controlling its borders, and they are doing so.  This thread is not about that governmental function.What this thread reveals to me, personally, is a lack of empathy for our fellow human beings who are desperate.  And a willingness to overlook the abominable harassment of people in the RNLI who risk their lives every day, without pay and without sucking benefits out of the system.The people who plant these ideas in the heads of regular people are the people who want to get elected to a position of power.  Their only agenda is to make enough people afraid of something, so they will vote for them and give them their cushy seat in parliament that they lust after.These politicians who make you afraid of your fellow human beings are not interested in solving your problems.. they only have one objective.  To tell you who to blame for your problems and make you afraid of them, so you will vote for that politician.

Mary McCue ● 8d

"you are avoiding the issue by focusing on the mindless idiots and criminals who abuse RNLI volunteers"Well the thread is called RNLI abuse after all, so i'd say he's staying on topic

Michael Brigo ● 7d

Mary, your assertion that ‘Britain is perfectly capable of controlling its borders and is doing so’ is unfortunately not supported by the facts. Last year over 40 000 migrants crossed in small boats and so far this year 20 000 have made the crossing. Britain spends around £5 billion per year on the asylum system, half of which goes on accommodation for the asylum seekers. It is also important to point out that all those who make the crossing have by definition come from a safe country, France or Belgium, making their claim for asylum implausible.For comparison, £5 billion is enough to build around 10 new hospitals or 100 new schools, so it is not an insignificant sum. Concern over the crossings is not just attributable to fear-mongering by ambitious politicians. It is shared by the government as well. Unfortunately their plan to smash the smuggling gangs has failed.

Steven Rose ● 7d

Very true, we are the ones suffering, 3 meals a day. Do they get tazered when holding knife. They hang around schools. Look how many molesting on trains, standing by schools, raping in alleyways, look at their faces when all together when they have done something on photos.

Barbara Stevens ● 7d

As you are so keen on "the facts," you should know that your claim that "those who make the crossing have by definition come from a safe country ... making their claim for asylum implausible" is not supported by the facts, since around 40% of asylum claims are accepted; of those that were not and were appealed, 40% were successful.Perhaps stop gaining your "facts" from the Daily Telegraph....

Richard Carter ● 7d

That is because Britain ignores the fact that the migrants have left from a safe country like France but decides their claim for asylum on the basis of their country of origin.

Steven Rose ● 7d

@RCThe illegals who arrive on a rubber boat from France are not eligible to claim asylum because they have just left a perfectly safe country where they were not in danger or being persecuted I.e. France.  The fact that they did not choose to claim asylum there or anywhere else in Europe proves they are not genuine asylum seekers and their sole aim was to get to the UK.  Our ridiculous pull factors are their incentive.  Naive fools who champion them, and charities that benefit financially from this illegal invasion, are degrading our country.  Meanwhile France looks on and laughs …

Sue Hammond ● 7d

Again, a fact-free zone. The Migration Observatory (https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/) sets out what's known of the reasons people try to come here:"There is limited evidence on why Channel migrants decide to come to the UK. Several factors appear to play a role in their decision, such as the presence of friends and family members in the UK. The most common nationalities crossing the Channel have larger diaspora populations in the UK rather than in France. Other reasons include language and cultural links to the UK, perceptions of the UK as safe and welcoming, as well as negative experiences in other European countries."Note that the payment of benefits does not feature in the list for the rather important reason that they are not eligible for benefits.

Richard Carter ● 7d

‘Note that the payment of benefits does not feature in the list for the rather important reason that they are not eligible for benefits’Richard your naivety is shocking.  Benefits is a collective word that when used in this context encompasses everything to that is given to illegals e.g free accommodation, free healthcare and dentistry, free schooling, maternity payments etc plus £49+ pocket money each week.  Plus free legal aid if their asylum claim is turned down and then greedy human rights lawyers take over and enable all kinds of concoctions (aka lies) to wangle a successful outcome.  Which other country/countries offer all these advantages?  None.  That is mainly why the illegals target the UK.  Familiarity of language is not that important in the bigger scheme of things.

Sue Hammond ● 7d

Not true Sue!

Philippa Bond ● 7d

Yes it is true Sue, now what Ms Bond. Your turn.

Barbara Stevens ● 7d

"The illegals who arrive on a rubber boat from France are not eligible to claim asylum because they have just left a perfectly safe country where they were not in danger or being persecuted I.e. France.  The fact that they did not choose to claim asylum there or anywhere else in Europe proves they are not genuine asylum seekers..."Except, of course, that they are accepted as genuine asylum seekers in a high proportion of cases, as I've already pointed out.

Richard Carter ● 7d

Yes, Richard, but as I pointed out, when assessing requests for asylum, the Home Office only looks at the experience of the migrants in their country of origin, ignoring the fact that they have passed through several safe countries before arriving at the Channel. The policy followed by the Home Office in effect gives the right of anyone facing persecution anywhere in the world to come to Britain provided they can get to the Channel coast and jump on a dinghy. In fact it doesn't matter whether the migrants have faced genuine persecution or not, for even if their claim for asylum is refused (which happens in 62% of cases), there is little chance that they will ever be deported.

Steven Rose ● 7d

It isn't up to you to decide what is safe or not!

Philippa Bond ● 7d

Are you saying that migrants in France and other EU countries face persecution?

Steven Rose ● 7d

@Richard Carter, thanks for keeping up with the challenges. Would love to hang out some day, let's meet for a coffee.  Th