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Mr IxerYour knowledge of IBM and its products are superior to mine !"Tempus fugit"😁As regards digging over IBM's involvement with Nazi Germany, I think this is better left to historians and not Googlers looking for axes to grind.Probably few companies operating at the time could be said to have totally clean hands regarding this issue.That was then; the world moves on and their current activities should be the focus of attention. Your involvement with IBM hardware predates mine.I joined the company as the 1400 series era came to an end and the 360 range was introduced and started to dominate mainframe computing.A very far sighted and successful business decision that was the making of the company and revolutionised corporate business computing.However you are right to point out that later IBM got many things wrong.Its move into personal computing was damned by its insisting  PCs should run with a 'proper operating system', the unwieldy and over engineered OS/2.Cue Microsoft Windows and Bill's billions.Then it decided it needed AIX, its own operating proprietary operating system for the RS/6000 for those who wanted a UNIX machine.Again too clever by half and unnecessary. I think the AS/400 for mid-range businesses was a success provided you could handle the constraints of RPG !Now IBM's business model seems to be based upon offering cloud computing and AI and especially the consultancy and professional services that go with them.My pension depends on its success !😟

John Hawkes ● 21d

I'm not sure this discussion is going anywhere. I obviously disagree with Mr Hawkes on a number of issues but I'm not sure working for IBM circa 1970 onwards would warrant branding anyone a facist or Nazi? Yes, IBM's German subsidiary apparently did assist the Third Reich with census data that enabled in the identification of jews, and aided the Holocaust, and it seens IBM's New York office was aware of this. Interestingly, I understand the machines were leased to the Third Reich so apparently, at least pre WWII, there was likely money fed back regularly to the US but to be honest I'm unaware of the details. However, when I wrote my first computer programs at IC in the early 70s to run on an IBM7094 I don't think I or any of my fellow students gave any consideration to the politics of the company other than, like CDC the other major systems at IC and London University, they were built by commercial US companies for a profit. Rather that criticise one individual, shouldn't we criticise all the major UK companies, government departments, universities, etc that invested in IBM systems (often instead of buying British ICL systems backin the 1970s/80s) and whose procurement departments would have looked at IBM's commercial background? I don't think at that time IBM's involvement with the Third Reich was known and I guess the senior management had changed since the war? I think most criticism of IBM I remember was its aggressive sales force, trying to perpetuate the "no one ever got fired for buying IBM"? And that certainly wasn't the case of IBM PCs with the rise of Compaq and other IBM compatible PCs. Also interesting, that in the late 80s I think I was supporting my company's application solution to a prospective customer on an IBM RS/6000 while the two competitors were proposing applications based on an IBM AS400 and IBM Series/1 (or was it an IBM9370, it was several decades ago).And, as the Artemis rocket heads for the launch pad and a return to the Moon, perhaps remember the US space programme was built on the knowledge of Germans who build the V1 and V2s that were aimed at London?I think a lot of people in the US didn’t want to get involved in WWII, and my understanding is many might have had pro German sympathies (that's where some emigrated from to the US) but time moves on ... Over and out, as these discussions are becoming a waste of time.

Michael Ixer ● 21d

Mr Ainsworth'Killing 1200 is apparently genocidal.Killing 70,000 is apparently not.'Correct for the intention and in fact the written aim of Hamas in its charter is the annihilation of Israel and its Jewish citizens.Deaths of Palestinians are a result of Israel's defensive war against terrorism.70,000 Palestinian deaths since October 2023 is a highly contested figure.It is based upon one that is propagated by The Gaza Health Ministry (GHM) and does not distinguish between civilian deaths in what is a war between Israel and Palestine and deaths of Palestinian combatants.https://factually.co/fact-checks/health/gaza-health-ministry-vs-un-academic-death-count-methods-c00d43'This  historically compiles deaths from hospital and morgue records and registers but, since heavy infrastructure damage, has augmented those counts with media reports and estimates—creating methodological opacity that can shift age and sex breakdowns and leave many deaths as “unidentified”. United Nations tallies often relay GHM figures but also perform independent verification and have at times revised gender/age breakdowns; academic studies using statistical models and capture–recapture methods have both corroborated and challenged the completeness of the GHM totals, finding in some analyses modest discrepancies and in others substantial undercounts'Note 'United Nations tallies often relay GHM figures'.You we all know take anything that comes from a so called Gazan authority - meaning Hamas - as the gospel truth whilst dismissing any more sceptical analysis as Israeli propaganda.But then you show a blind hatred towards towards Israel.

John Hawkes ● 22d

Mr Ainsworth'However, Israel is our ally'.Not that one would think so reading the antisemitic posts on this Forum and the actions of certain fanatical Muslims.For example the fact of the Manchester synagogue attack that occurred on 2 October 2025, during the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur, when a man drove a car into pedestrians before stabbing worshippers at the Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation, a synagogue in Higher Crumpsall, a northern suburb of the city of Manchester in North West England.Three people were killed in the incident, including the attacker and a worshipper who were both shot dead by police. Three other people were injured and treated in hospital; one was hit by the car, one had a stab wound and the third was wounded by police gunfire. The incident was declared a terrorist attack later that day.The attacker, Jihad al-Shamie, was a 35-year-old British citizen born in Syria who lived nearby in Prestwich.And the fact that other attempts to murder Jews on our streets by racist Muslims (Walid Saadaoui, 38, and Amar Hussein, 52, had a "visceral dislike" of Jewish people and arranged for guns to be smuggled into the UK as part of an "Isis-inspired plot", Preston Crown Court heard) were thwarted by undercover police operations.And the fact that many Brits of the Jewish faith live in fear such that they even have to take steps themselves to protect their  children on their way to school from attack by fanatical Muslims.Usual disclaimer - "These acts do not represent the attitudes of the majority of Muslim immigrants to this country".But it is reflective of many. And your posts encourage these attitudes and behaviour.So do you stand by our ally ?

John Hawkes ● 22d

Mr Ainsworth and the West Putney anti-Israel LeagueI posted earlier -'"Tehran morgue videos show the brutality of Iran's crackdown on protesters"'I have made previous claims that rulers of Middle Eastern Arab states show little of the entrepreneurial spirit to raise the living standards of their people compared to that shown by Israel.They should take a lesson from their Persian neighbours and seek similar business opportunities.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo"Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told"'Families of people killed in the protests in Iran have told the BBC that the authorities are demanding large sums of money to return their bodies for burial.Multiple sources have told BBC Persian that bodies are being held in mortuaries and hospitals and that security forces will not release them unless their relatives hand over money.At least 2,435 people have been killed during more than two weeks of protests across the country.One family in the northern city of Rasht told the BBC that security forces demanded 700 million tomans ($5,000; £3,700) to release the body of their loved one.It was being held at the Poursina Hospital mortuary, along with at least 70 other dead protesters, they said.Meanwhile in Tehran, the family of a Kurdish seasonal construction worker went to collect his body, only to be told they must pay a billion tomans ($7,000; £5,200) to receive it.The family told the BBC that they could not afford the fee and were forced to leave without their son's body. A construction worker in Iran typically earns less than $100 a month.'Palestinian Hamas must be kicking itself for missing a similar business opportunity when it came to returning the remains of the corpses resulting from its October 2023 genocidal attack on Israel.

John Hawkes ● 22d

The argument you hear from opponents of Israel is that they condemn all violence against civilians, but the fact that crimes are taking place in China, Myanmar, Sudan etc should not prevent them expressing their outrage against Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians. But the plain fact is that condemnation of Israel, which was attacked by a hostile territory controlled by a genocidal regime who threatened to repeat the massacre of October 7 ‘again and again’, has far outweighed criticism of other countries whose regimes have killed or persecuted hundreds of thousands of their own citizens. If this were just true of Putney Forum, it would be relatively unimportant. Unfortunately it is true of the wider world. Why has the Muslim Association of Britain, a leading component of the demonstrations organised by  the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, been silent about the recent events in Iran? How is it that the UN Human Rights Council, which recently accused Israel of genocide, three months ago elected an Iranian regime diplomat to its advisory committee? Why has Tom Fletcher, the British UN under Secretary for humanitarian affairs, who falsely claimed last year that 14 000 Palestinian babies faced death by starvation within 48 hours, been silent about Iran on his X feed? Why is there no such thing as LGBTQ for Iran, even though Iran has persecuted gay people? Why haven’t the theatrical luvvies expressed their condemnation of the Iranian regime? Why is it that footballers have not taken the knee in support of the teenage Iranian footballer, Rubin Morandi, murdered in the last few days? The reason for the disparity, as suggested by Alister Heath in an excellent piece in yesterday’s ‘Telegraph’ is that condemnation of Israel is mostly a performative act in which people who have no real understanding of world affairs can signal their virtue as members of the ‘good people’s club’, in some cases also tinged with anti-Semitism.

Steven Rose ● 22d

BoycieI stand corrected by you, even if your bluntness still jars somewhat.I was wrong to think that anti-Iranian government protests have not taken place in London.And it is pleasing to see that these protesters have the  support of Israelis and Jews who as we know have also suffered from Islamic terrorism.From the Spectator online -'In November 2023, a mass rally in support of Israel after the October 7 massacres took place in London. Body parts were still being scraped from burnt Kibbutzim, but the news cycle had already moved on. A crowd of a few thousand Israelis and Jews stood lonely in Parliament square, clutching posters of hostages. Then, suddenly, a tall woman walked confidently on stage, accompanied by men holding an Iranian flag, with the symbol of a lion, sword and rising sun. That support from the Iranian diaspora – at a time when much of the world had little sympathy for Israel – meant a lot to British Jews and Israelis.This weekend, British Jews were able to return the favour. A rally took place outside Downing Street in support of the brave protestors in Iran. Tens of thousands of the Iranian British community gathered, waving the same lion and sun flag that represented their homeland before the 1979 revolution. There were also many Israeli flags in the crowd, Hebrew songs were sung, and Israeli and Jewish activist groups were among the organisers and speakers at the rally.The same woman, British-Iranian human rights activist Elaheh Djamali, known as Lily Moo, was on stage again, chanting for a free Iran, and calling for action from the UK government against the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) – which has for decades simultaneously been supporting Hamas and hunting down Iranian protestors.There was a sense of fear in the air. Every Iranian I spoke to mentioned the petrifying, scattered reports of the scale of killings, hidden by the communications shutdown. ‘I’m in a state of trauma and autopilot. I haven’t slept in 14 days,’ Moo said after the rally.There was also a lot of heat and anger. One protestor brought a puppet head of the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, tied to a stick. Later, another protester set it on fire.‘Hamas terrorists took action on a day when the Islamic Republic felt safest. Today they don’t feel safe anymore: their proxies are depleted, and [we see] Iranian men who are part of the Islamic Republic suppression forces joining the people,’ Moo said.Many Iranian protesters describe the past few weeks as the beginning of a genuine revolution. Sheyda Rahbari, a former Iranian student who led the Woman, Life, Freedom protests in 2022, explained that she had to flee after being captured and tortured, but said these days she feels optimistic. ‘The economic reasons were only the trigger; it’s not just a protest, it’s a revolution’.When I asked about the clear presence of Jews at the rally, many mentioned the ancient connection between the nations. ‘Jewish and Israeli people truly support us, more than any other people. I am really proud and grateful for that’, Rahbari says. The same is true online, where Israeli content creators and influencers go above and beyond to raise awareness of Iranians’ plight.In Jewish collective memory, the Persian king Cyrus the Great’s decision to liberate the Jews from Babylon 2,600 years ago is still very much alive. Now, some Iranians hope that Israel will repay the gesture.

John Hawkes ● 24d