Forum Topic

ECHR - Facts

There have been 13 occasions SINCE 1980 when deportation of a foreign national was stopped by the ECHR.

Not really worth getting in a tizz about.

Michael Brigo ● 2d11 Comments

Excellent news, thank you Michael!

Ivonne Holliday ● 6h

Looks like the Justice Ministers of the Council of Europe signatories will be reviewing the Convention ...Joint Statement to the Conference of Ministers of Justice of the Council of Europe - GOV.UK https://share.google/gdWlYp4Fra0YTKAtj

Michael Ixer ● 16h

I am no lawyer Ivonne, but I think Article 3, outlawing inhumane treatment, and Article 8, enshrining the right to family life, would have to be amended. There would have to be some disclaimer stating that signatories  would have the right to ignore these articles in cases where the person making a claim under the Convention is a foreigner who has committed a serious criminal offence in the host country or if, having entered the country illegally, his claim for asylum has been rejected. I am not sure that the Council of Europe would ever agree unanimously to such a change.Suppose, for example, an Afghan who has been convicted of rape and subsequently converts to Christianity argues that if he were returned to Afghanistan upon completion of his sentence he would be executed by the Taliban as an apostate. Do you think the Council of Europe would ever amend the Convention to allow deportation in this case? Apart from anything else, it would contravene the protocols outlawing the death penalty.

Steven Rose ● 17h

Steven,The Council of Europe does not need to write a new Convention.  That is bizarre.Any international convention can be amended.  It may not be explicit but it all is there.  There is no way that a convention cannot be amended.  Unless, the parties are not "friendly" towards it, and I have not come across any convention that cannot be amended.  Unless, of course, you are Trump.

Ivonne Holliday ● 18h

I think what the Professor meant, Ivonne, is that there is no established mechanism to bring in amendments. Clearly the Council of Europe could collectively decide to  write a new Convention. I don't know if this would require unanimity among the signatories but it would probably take an exceedingly long time, leaving the question of foreign criminals and illegal migrants unresolved.

Steven Rose ● 19h

"So it remains to be seen whether under political pressure the judges of the ECHR will reverse their previous interpretation i.e. admit they got it wrong. How likely is that?"Have they everdone that?

David Ainsworth ● 20h

Hello Steven,The Professor of European Law at Cambridge said there is no mechanism for altering the ECHR?  Really?That is not really true.  Every single international convention can be amended, be it by protocol, by amendments, by consensus or unanimity.  As the saying goes, where there is a will, there is a way.  It is not up to the judges at the ECHR to reverse their previous interpretation, it is up to the members of the ECHR to amend the laws!!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 20h

Keir Starmer apparently received support today from other European leaders for a more reasonable interpretation of the Convention but according to the Professor of European Law at Cambridge there is no mechanism for altering the Convention itself. So it remains to be seen whether under political pressure the judges of the ECHR will reverse their previous interpretation i.e. admit they got it wrong. How likely is that?

Steven Rose ● 22h

Mr Brigo'There have been 13 occasions SINCE 1980 when deportation of a foreign national was stopped by the ECHR.Not really worth getting in a tizz about'.Get on the phone to Number 10 !Starmer does not seem to understand the workings and consequences of the act as well as you."Starmer urges Europe’s leaders to curb ECHR to halt rise of far right"'Exclusive: PM calls for members of European convention on human rights to allow tougher action to protect borders' Guardian.Or perhaps he does, but uses the pretence of trying to quell the influence of 'the far right' (BTW who does that describe in the UK ?) rather than openly admit that the labour Government has totally lost control of who is entering this country be they benefit scroungers or Islamic rapists with a medieval and misogynistic attitude to women - the younger the better.And by 2029 Labour will lose the general Election if public opinion on this issue stays as it is.

John Hawkes ● 1d

I am happy to engage with facts but the facts as you state them are incomplete. The number of times the the European Court has actually intervened in deportation cases is irrelevant. What is important is that British judges,  cognizant of how European judges have interpreted the Convention, have adapted their own decisions to comply with thrse extreme interpretations. That is why Keir Starmer is seeking to disapply Article 3 and 8, concerning inhumane treatment and the right to family life, which criminals and illegal migrants have abused to avoid being deported.

Steven Rose ● 1d

How odd, nobody wants to engage with facts.

Michael Brigo ● 1d