Forum Topic

Lower Richmond Road Conga

The traffic on the Lower Richmond Road returning from Barnes this morning was so bad that it represented a hazard as I and other having tried to be clever drove along the back streets and went down Roskell Road in vain hope of getting to Putney quicker along this route.  Angering drivers getting out of Putney along the Lower Richmond Road we tried to join the last stages of the conga towards Putney Bridge... Aaaah me what is to be done? Will the Council ever rectify the road system at Putney Bridge thereby putting us all out of our misery?

Miles Thompson ● 15d38 Comments

What crowded High Street, is the High Street in Cuckoo Land. Or in your imagination Richard.

Barbara Stevens ● 9d

I've just watched an ambulance going quickly up a crowded High Street - so quickly, I couldn't get my phone out to video it. So another myth (that emergency vehicles are being held up by the changes) disappears down the plughole.

Richard Carter ● 9d

It was a very evocative and pertinent image to all intents and purposes!

Miles Thompson ● 12d

Sorry, Miles, if I sent the thread off a bit, but the road alterations are worse for pedestrians too.  My photos are of when I was at the crossing at the end of PHS close to the bridge and when I crossed with everyone else, there were about 10 of us making our way through stationary vehicles on the road by the church.  We weren’t crossing on a clear bit of road. It’s horrible. Ed, when you post your photo, maybe it should put it on the other thread about lights.  Actually, I have seen the ones you mentioned.  

Martine Guy ● 12d

Its just a maze, we have got to the Bridge and a red light came on, I said to the other half stop.  But it was for the cyclists. If you were driving a left hand drive vehicle very confusing.

Barbara Stevens ● 12d

This image says it all! A bag of rubbish, a tatty bin with marks on the top where people have stubbed out their cigarettes, stained pavement in need of cleaning and of course the complicated new road layout which is the primary subject of this thread...

Miles Thompson ● 12d

The pedestrian crossing near Waitrose in East Sheen has oddly two sets of red/green men. One set where you press the button and another set a few centimetres above the first set. Not sure why they need two sets so close and pointing in the same direction. I try and nab a photo next time.As for cyclists stopping at lights I put it at less than 20% now.The Putney High Street cycling lane makes little sense. Having a tiny bit of segregation and then having to cycle between buses and out towards the other lane to over take buses once on the Bridge. One can only assume the use of recreational drugs by those in road planning.

Ed Robinson ● 12d

Richard, thanks for reply.  I realise you are on the side of pedestrians as well as cyclists, and that you want less cars on the road, but when you are stood waiting to cross at any of the crossings on PHS and cyclists go through red lights, it does feel like many rather than some. Anyway, my main point of posting the photos I took today is that pedestrians need better indication on PHS of when it is safe to cross the road.  I think we need Puffin lights rather than Pelican.  Cyclists have now got this green bike light giving them the signal it’s safe to proceed and I would like a similar green man light positioned low down on the post, at waist/shoulder level for pedestrians. I crossed PHS and when I was stood in the pedestrian island? in the middle of the road, there were about 10 pedestrians, 5 on each side of the road, waiting to cross.  Everyone except me started to cross, so I followed everybody else.  I have no idea at all if the signal was showing it was safe to cross, as I couldn’t see it.  And I think car drivers were a bit confused by all us pedestrians in the road, so maybe it wasn’t safe for us to cross.  Who knows?!  
For such a congested, busy, major route in London, I think pedestrian crossing signage is woeful, If Clifford Avenue in East Sheen can have the Puffin lights, why can’t PHS?

Martine Guy ● 12d

Martine, the arrangement there is designed so that cyclists who want to carry straight on over the bridge have a green light when motor traffic has a red, so that they can then adopt a position in the middle of the road so as not to  risk getting cut down by drivers turning left into LRR.It's an excellent arrangement, and it really annoys me that some (many? I haven't done a count, but too many, whatever) cyclists ignore the light when it's red. It's stupid and heedless and it puts them in real danger. Grrrr!

Richard Carter ● 12d

Do the cyclists stop when the Red Bike is lit up or do they ignore it and carry on through, as so many of them do at traffic lights?

Martine Guy ● 13d

Here is the other light for cyclists, close to the ones in the other photo:  

Martine Guy ● 13d

I bet the people who nearly died did, waiting to get hospital.

Barbara Stevens ● 13d

As I've tried to explain, the relatively small amount of traffic diverted from Hammersmith Bridge did not cause a significant problem in Putney: the real, much more recent problems result from the reconfiguring of the junction at Putney Bridge, which, to put it mildly, is not a great success, causing much congestion for minuscule benefit.And there is no cycle lane on Putney High Street, except right at the end near the bridge itself where the road is much wider. As with Kingston Hill, that's a non-issue.

Richard Carter ● 13d

It's a total non-issue: neither the NHS, the Fire Service, nor the police have complained about access caused by the cycle lanes.

Richard Carter ● 13d

I noticed there is green light at low level on PHS, near to the Bridge, to indicate to cyclists that they can proceed.  Could be a version of a Puffin light which I would like to see installed on PHS by Norroy Rd?  
If cyclists can have these lights, why can’t pedestrians?

Martine Guy ● 13d

Yes there is room for emergency vehicles, but the cycle stumps sticking up are in the way if you did need pull over that's what my point was.

Barbara Stevens ● 13d

I cycle up Kingston hill all the time and there is plenty of room for emergency vehicles.

Michael Brigo ● 13d

Trouble is, I think there are too many younger people in the Councils who just like spending money and are making big mistakes. Evens up Kingston Hill, I know there isn't the same amount of traffic as in the High Street, but the cycle lanes the way they are done if an Emergency vehicle is coming a car is unable to move to the side to let them pass. Putney High Street is a complete disaster, with the unnecessary widened pavements, also the cycle lane which a lot of cyclists don't use, is complete madness. When at present we know there is a lot of traffic because of the closure of Hammersmith Bridge, the cycle lane has just caused more congestion.

Barbara Stevens ● 13d

There has now been considerable discussion on this thread about what might be done to improve the situation. It all boils down to Wandsworth Council quickly implementing a course of action in order to rectify the disastrous 'improvements' that they have made to the road system at Putney whilst the Government and the different authorities involved in funding the restoration of Hammersmith Bridge (or even agreeing to build a new bridge) bury their differences and come up with the money. Meanwhile, the Mayor of London could agree to fund with TFL the work that is required on the Wimbledon line and on our crumbling tube stations. I am of course writing to you from Fairyland...

Miles Thompson ● 13d

Have people forgotten that TFL was partly responsible for the damage?You have to factor in that buses and cars are a lot heavier than before. Not to mention the need for cyclists.A wooden & cast iron construction is simply not upto the job. It would require more closures and repairs a few years down the line and more money.The original Hammersmith Bridge was replaced by the current Bridge because it was unsuitable for the traffic.Average business loans start at 6% and go up tp 15%. That's a minimum of almost a quarter million pound in interest rates alone without capital repayment.A charity should be set up to raise funds for the bridges removal and relocation.

Ed Robinson ● 14d

I do not agree with toll,  because I think drivers pay enough already. If they make Hammersmith a toll, they will probably keep using putney bridge.

Barbara Stevens ● 14d

"Hammersmith Bridge was the first suspension bridge over the Thames and the longest suspension crossing in the world at the time of its opening. Unlike many other London toll bridges it proved to be profitable for its investors. Its existence provided a stimulus for the growth of Hammersmith into a more important town to the west side of London."imo the councils should create a bridge company and the government should provide a loan facility at a reasonable rate, say 5% fixed for 25 years. Repair the bridge, then charge cars and commercial vehicles (not tfl buses) a toll for crossing. With capital repayments the loan could be repaid in 20 years at which point they could reduce the tolls or perhaps give cars free access but continue to charge commercial vehicles in order to keep the maintenance fund topped upNote the original Fulham Bridge (later called Putney bridge) was a toll bridge until 1880

Adam Tripp ● 14d

We need to vote out those that deliver poor outcomes wasting large amounts of public expenditure including GLA members as well our MP and the policy copy and paste Mayor.It should be plain to everyone now that central government are not going to be giving London or anywhere else billions of pounds.We can longer pretend that we can afford the repeated waste of public money. According to a recent FOI act other bridges have seen decline in traffic, with Putney levels being stable.Emergency services are critical and need much higher consideration. We can not afford to keep Hammersmith Bridge closed and continue to waste millions just to satisfy the wishes of bridge voyeurs.Buses are now slower and Putney has some of the worse performing routes. Each decrease in bus speeds add several hundred million on to the costs."Traffic Count: Biennial Screenline survey counts conducted by TfL for river-crossing traffic by mode at Kew, Chiswick, Hammersmith, Wandsworth and Putney Bridges from 2016 to 2024. Traffic flow on Putney Bridge has remained stable since 2018, while Kew Bridge has recovered to 2018 levels. In contrast, both Chiswick and Wandsworth Bridges have experienced a steady decline since 2018, despite the closure of Hammersmith Bridge."

Ed Robinson ● 14d

This is shameful on TFL, MP and Council that this chaos has been allowed to go on for so long.  It is also a security issue given that the High Street and bridge are now a major crossing.  How do they think emergency vehicles can access anything or worse anyone?

Robert Wheeler ● 14d

Mr. Carter, all the traffic yesterday was trying to take a short cut down Chelverton, because the URR was jam packed. All the traffic went right back to Browns the Newsagents, so vehicles started reversing out of Chelverton back into Charlwood to go back to the URR. But this just caused more problems because they could not get back onto the URR because it was at a stand still. Even trying to go right to go to Richmond. so if your trying to justify the changes to the High Street you have lost.

Barbara Stevens ● 14d

Although, from what's been posted on other groups the one lane north isn't usually congested; the traffic from PHS, LRR, PBR, etc appears to be being throttled somewhere in the new junctions flow. It's obvious things would be better if there were fewer cars, but something's incorrect in the junction's design - if it was correct then the single lane on the bridge should be the pinch point, and one of the worst casualties are the buses.

Michael Ixer ● 14d

But John, the present traffic problems started at the beginning of the year with the reorganising of the main junction, long after the partial closure of Hammersmith Bridge (in April 2019); that would have had some effect, but nothing like the recent congestion.

Richard Carter ● 14d

Martine, crossing LRR and the northbound lane of the bridge are both marginally better. I agree it's not much, but that was what I was referring to.

Richard Carter ● 14d

Richard, please can you tell me where arrangements for pedestrians are better? Martine, Putney’s Fed Up Pedestrian

Martine Guy ● 14d

Richard does come out with some nonsense, there are traffic jams on PHS and Putney bridge even at times when there is very little traffic.Cycling across the bridge is not fun either. There a bus stop right in the middle that no one can seem to explain. No one wants to get off a bus in the middle of the bridge it's a stupid location that also very windy.Having only one lane North on Putney Bridge is a big mistake. It's as if they have designed the Bridge to create congestion.TFL really need to make public their modelling for road layouts assuming they actually do any modelling.As for Hammersmith Bridge we can't waste half the national infrastructure budget on one bridge. It's time for it to go. Move it elsewhere and get a new bridge for 10% of the cost.

Ed Robinson ● 14d

Richard, I respect your view that the traffic issues in Putney are not connected to the closure of Barnes Bridge to motor vehicles. I’m sure you will also accept that others take a different view.

John Geoffries ● 14d

It's not all bad, arrangements for pedestrians and some of the changes for cyclists (especially north and south of PHS) are better, but on the whole the rearrangements of the junction haven’t really helped, and that's led to the holdups in LRR, Chelverton, Disraeli and Werter Roads that annoy many. And the partial closure of Hammersmith Bridge (it's still open for pedestrians, cyclists, scooters etc, just not motor vehicles) isn’t the cause of the current problems: the underlying cause, unrecognised by many, is simply too many cars. Until that's more generally taken on board and someone has the courage to face up to the motorists' lobby, nothing much will change except at the margins.

Richard Carter ● 14d

Thanks Ivonne, and following on from your comment, I ask the question who has benefitted from the changes at Putney Bridge?  When I walked down Chelverton Rd, the traffic was so bad on Chelverton and PHS, the buses were queuing up to leave the bus station.  You could feel the frustration from the car drivers and bus drivers.  Earlier in the week, I witnessed more angry scenes in Disraeli Rd from drivers trying to turn right onto PHS. So buses haven’t benefitted, nor have pedestrians, nor have cars and lorries, so what was the point of the improvement?  Who has benefitted?

Martine Guy ● 14d

We had to back out of the road as it's one way Surely even going backwards in a one way street is going the wrong way

Andy Pike ● 14d

I totally agree with you, Martine.The so-called "improvements" were supposed to be to ensure cyclists and pedestrians safety.  They have failed in every aspect...  Horrific is the word!

Ivonne Holliday ● 14d

I agree, Barbara, the traffic has been bad in Chelverton Rd all day and I saw the traffic queues off LRR earlier.  PHS is bad, too.
This must be the worst traffic improvement ever.

Martine Guy ● 14d

It wasn't just the Lower Richmond Rd, our Rd, Chelverton Rd, was full of traffic at 2.00 pm. We had to back out of the road as it is one way. We got onto the Upper and that was jam packed as well, even at 4.30pm after shopping in Richmond, coming home.

Barbara Stevens ● 15d

There’s nothing that can be done until Hammersmith Bridge is repaired or replaced. Our politicians, both Labour and Conservative, have completely failed. Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 15d