Forum Topic

Danny Who??

Insignificant Tory MP Danny Kruger (no, I'd never heard of him either) has defected to Reform, and Fagage has boasted that he's put him in charge of (don't laugh!) preparing the party for government, despite the fact that he's never actually done anything.What a dream team of defectors: Nadine Dorries and now this Kruger!

Richard Carter ● 34d104 Comments

David I asked: "did you not say that foreign money in UK politics is acceptable - hoping it will be mainly left wing and promote the politics you believe in?" I think you may have some wiggle room but until we get consensus that foreign money in UK politics is not acceptable no matter where it comes from or who it goes to then not a lot will change.  This is evident by the pro-US fan base that have suddenly changed their mind due to the wind changing in the US. Too late we bought billions of pounds of deterrent and we probably do not even have the keys. Although there have been other examples with other countries. Labour and Conservative MP's on board Russian gravy train seemed to have jumped off, not that they didn't know who was driving the train — it just became too hot. At the heart of the problem is people ultimately do not have a solid belief in democracy. If they can get extra funding for their beliefs then they will turn a blind eye.

Ed Robinson ● 31d

Check out Myth No 1https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/myths-about-solar/

Philippa Bond ● 31d

Ms BondYou are confusing me as I think you yourself are confused.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/23/big-oil-445m-trump-congressThe heading of this article is - "Big oil spent $445m in last election cycle to influence Trump and Congress, report says",Thus it is obviously about how politics is conducted and funded in the USA.'It is already illegal for foreigners to donate to UKpolitical campaigns but there is supposed to be a bill coming which will also make it illegal to pass money through shell companies which is what has been happening here.'Why would foreigners want to pass money to British political Parties ? Can you name which shell companies on behalf of whom have donated to which Party's campaigns ?And will objectors to this bill point out that the Labour Party and individual Labour MPs have received donations from Trades Unions.As not all Trade Union members support Labour are not in effect their Union dues being passed to Labour through a 'shell company' ?

John Hawkes ● 31d

Ms BondI am afraid you are drifting off the point.The discussion ongoing was concerning Mr Ainsworth claims about 'right wing groups' influencing political debate in general.He is soon to tell us who these groups are, what they are trying to influence and why.'https://www.onlynaturalenergy.com/exclusive-influential-uk-net-zero-sceptics-funded-by-us-oil-dark-money/You have switched to the topic of climate change.The companies your link seems to refer to extract oil and gas, commodities that were we not to have them would bring society, as we are happy to live in (well most of us, perhaps not you), to its knees.Winter's on its way you know !And why is the funding they provide to counter the proposers of a supposed net zero (no use of oil and gas) environment considered 'dark' ?They are open with the fact that it is in their business interest to do this and most sensible people can see it is in the best interest of the populace.Until Miliband can give answers to the questions that address whether the UK has the infrastructure (a new grid system and back up for when the wind drops and the sun doesn't shine) then we can't rely on these 'natural' sources of energy.

John Hawkes ● 31d

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/23/big-oil-445m-trump-congressHow much do the actual population's votes count?It is already illegal for foreigners to donate to UKpolitical campaigns but there is supposed to be a bill coming which will also make it illegal to pass money through shell companies which is what has been happening here.

Philippa Bond ● 31d

https://www.onlynaturalenergy.com/exclusive-influential-uk-net-zero-sceptics-funded-by-us-oil-dark-money/

Philippa Bond ● 31d

Mr Boyce'I’m saying I don’t care what politicians think about same sex marriage.'That is probably true of many people but not all.Though this arrangement is legal I am sure many do not approve of such an arrangement for ethical reasons.Their right to do so providing they do not express such a view in a way that incites violence or harassment."It's a free country" !But also knowing what their MP might think about the arrangement is something the voter should know and the MP not be coy about.Just as with the MPs view on the Middle East conflict or even nationalising the railways.

John Hawkes ● 31d

Mr Ainsworth'Musk has $470 billion. He can make this happen. During the August riots a year ago, he predicted a coming civil war in the UK.I don't think that we'll like it, especially "the reasonable centre".' Are you claiming to be part of "the reasonable centre"?Are you sure that deep down you would not in fact like such a civil war ?Chance for you to don your balaclava, face mask and keffiyeh and sock it to Farage and the other fascists that support Reform.Plenty of illegal immigrants to march behind your banner !

John Hawkes ● 31d

Mr Ainsworth'Historically, wealthy US donors have provided millions of dollars to right-wing groups in the UK. 'What is your definition of a 'right wing group' ?Would you name two or three ?Is there anything wrong with an individual or an organisation claiming to be 'right wing' ?Are 'left wing groups' of which I would assume you associate yourself with, intrinsically any more commendable and worthy than 'right wing groups' ?Is the Guardian the public voice of 'left wing groups' ?I look forward to your personal response and not that of your AI doppelgänger.

John Hawkes ● 31d

"As for David's comments, correct me if I wrong, did you not say that foreign money in UK politics is acceptable - hoping it will be mainly left wing and promote the politics you believe in? I believe foreign money in UK politics is unacceptable no matter who they promote, it is also undemocratic as much of it is under the radar!"I'd need a quote on that. I don't believe that it would be (nor is) mainly left wing and promote the politics I believe in. I believe that money from abroad helped in the destruction of Corbyn and the Left of Labour, so it doesn't sound like a policy that I would favour. AI - "Most direct foreign political donations are banned in the UK. However, foreign money can potentially influence UK politics through various loopholes. One notable avenue is donations made through UK-based companies, which may be owned or directed by foreign nationals. Historically, wealthy US donors have provided millions of dollars to right-wing groups in the UK. These donations have often supported organizations promoting right-wing agendas such as privatization, lower taxes, and reduced business regulation. Over the past five years, more than £13 million was donated to political parties through unincorporated associations, with nearly two-thirds going to the Conservative Party. Recently, there has been speculation about the potential for large donations from foreign billionaires, such as Elon Musk, to parties like Reform UK, which is on the right-wing spectrum. In July 2025, the UK government committed to reviewing donation rules to address concerns about foreign influence in UK elections."

David Ainsworth ● 31d

Why do I keep quoting what Farage actually said when he was asked a specific question?A couple of reasons:As mentioned these topics need to be discussed and issues addressed. A dad on social media was highlighting the statistical positive financial benefits of his son being in a male same sex relationship due to the gender pay gap. Of course that means same sex female relationships are going to be double impacted by the gender pay gap. How much is economics a factor in same sex relationship failures? The gender pay gap needs more focus IMO.Secondly truth matters if people are going to label it as homophobic and misrepresent what Farage said then it's important to look at what he actually said.As for David's comments, correct me if I wrong, did you not say that foreign money in UK politics is acceptable - hoping it will be mainly left wing and promote the politics you believe in? I believe foreign money in UK politics is unacceptable no matter who they promote, it is also undemocratic as much of it is under the radar!The left were unusually quite on the state political censorship of opposition views on social media by the Biden administration.Similarly with free speech, it is not free speech if people are only allowed to say what you agree with. Free speech is vital not just for a democracy but the every day functions of our society.Violence and incitement to violence should be condemned by all irrespective of political views as should all standards be!

Ed Robinson ● 31d

"It seems as one has to ask the Left's permission to discuss topics."Was Musk entitled to permission to say this last weekend?:-"Elon Musk has addressed crowd attending the “Unite the Kingdom” march, via video link. He spoke to march leader, far-right activist Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, over the video call.Musk claimed that a “dissolution of parliament” and a “change of government” is needed in the UK. He said: “I really think that there’s got to be a change of government in Britain. You can’t – we don’t have another four years, or whenever the next election is, it’s too long. Something’s got to be done. There’s got to be a dissolution of parliament and a new vote held.”Musk told the march rally: “My appeal is to British common sense, which is to look carefully around you and say ‘If this continues, what world will you be living in?’“This is a message to the reasonable centre, the people who ordinarily wouldn’t get involved in politics, who just want to live their lives. They don’t want that, they’re quiet, they just go about their business.“My message is to them: if this continues, that violence is going to come to you, you will have no choice. You’re in a fundamental situation here. Whether you choose violence or not, violence is coming to you. You either fight back or you die, that’s the truth, I think.”The X owner told the crowd “the left are the party of murder”, referring to the death of Charlie Kirk. He said: “There’s so much violence on the left, with our friend Charlie Kirk getting murdered in cold blood this week and people on the left celebrating it openly. The left is the party of murder and celebrating murder. I mean, let that sink in for a minute, that’s who we’re dealing with here.”""we don’t have another four years" - What "we" does Musk think that he is part of? Apart from a would-be plutocracy?Musk has $470 billion. He can make this happen. During the August riots a year ago, he predicted a coming civil war in the UK. I don't think that we'll like it, especially "the reasonable centre".

David Ainsworth ● 31d

I’m not suggesting that nothing is discussed,  I’m saying I don’t care what politicians think about same sex marriage. It’s a done deal and adults can make their own choices. Period.The rest is between you and your God, and I don’t really want to hear about it. It’s not a matter for public debate. Farage’s views of marriage are about the least thing I’m interested in, why do you keep reposting them, what do you find so fascinating about his comments other than he’s into heterosexual marriages because of the kids?

Gerry Boyce ● 31d

"I definitely couldn’t care less." Putting a side the significant number of people that would rather have a cup of tea or a beer etc - stable relationship not only have a positive social impact but also an economical one too. Cohabiting is probably greener too. If there is significant differences in divorce rates then understanding any causes may be vital to addressing them. In the news this week was the underestimation of deaths by heroin with 50% higher than first originally thought. An ex-minister said if they had known the extent of the situation then they could have taken measures to address it. If nothing is discussed, issues are not addressed. It seems as one has to ask the Left's permission to discuss topics. The closing down of concerns be them opinions or just facts that people do not want to hear has led to far more harm. You may disagree with Farage but it looks like he was asked a question and he answered it. We should be looking at the causes or proof that it is inaccurate rather than shutting down debate.  "Questioned on whether he shared Kruger’s view, Farage said: “I think one thing for certain is children who have two stable parents have a better chance in life. And the most stable relationships, maybe not my example, but the most stable relationships, the ones that last the longest, tend to be between men and women. “I’m not absolutist about this in any way at all. I just happen to think of kids in the country not getting the start at home or at school that they deserve." https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nigel-farage-accused-vile-homophobia-114548746.html

Ed Robinson ● 31d

Yes, but now same sex marriage is legal, why would anyone care what politicians have to say about it? I definitely couldn’t care less.

Gerry Boyce ● 31d

I will repeat myself Gerry, If politicians didn't express a view we would not have got same sex marriage throughout the UK in 2020!

Ed Robinson ● 31d

Frankly, I couldn’t imagine anything worse than politicians airing their views on how consenting adults choose to live.Is homosexuality ethically and morally acceptable?Jesus Christ, give me a break.

Gerry Boyce ● 31d

Not my comment Mr Hawkes but I actually believe that politicians should not be afraid to discuss certain subjects. They may not have the view that some people want but the alternative is certain subjects are not discussed and issues become taboo and get slept under the carpet. Much better for differences of opinion to be aired, challenged addressed and we all move forward.

Ed Robinson ● 31d

Mr Hawkes. It's nothing about being progressive or liberal, they're just people I've come across in day-to-day life. (Perhaps I was just fortunate enough to work for a Californian headquartered software company and a City financial services company where people weren't forced to hide their sexuality.) Your original post came across to me as making a somewhat snide comment about Elton being "the wife". It just seemed an unnecessary and not very funny comment to me. Is there any reason their children wouldn't be happy anymore than other children. I expect some children where parents are struggling to make ends meet, and both have to work several jobs to get by, and might be hungry without free school meals might be unhappier with their circumstances. Of course, generalisation can be wrong...Not everyone fits into a standard model of life ...

Michael Ixer ● 32d

Hello David,Ooops!  Second attempt at replying to you - the first appears to have been lost!The PM in 2008 was Gordon Brown.  He was PM till 2010.I think higher borrowing due to the financial crisis and COVID are in a way acceptable due to the circumstances.The so-called "black hole" of £22b left by the Conservatives Labour has been constantly repeating is in a big way doubtful as no proof (in black and white) was ever provided....The level of borrowing since 1 July 2024 has increased exponentially and it is reprehensible.  Do not tell me that the pensioners have caused it - please, what a feeble excuse!

Ivonne Holliday ● 32d

An excellent point, Mr Rose!

Michael Ixer ● 32d

Mr IxerWhere is your sense of humour ?!Having in the past beguiled us with tales of your professional life and what your friends and colleagues are up to, you now let us into the secret world chez Ixer.You have a vegetable assortment delivered !Organic I am sure.And you know same sex couples !How progressive and liberal you are.But I repeat, I don't care who people form relationships with so long as any children involved are comfortable with the situation.But regarding Elton John I confess to a cynical thought that having acquired an excess of any other type of possession, children were needed to complete the set.

John Hawkes ● 32d

Mr Hawkes. You seem to have a rather outdated idea of how couples split chores. For example, we both look after our own laundry, and both cook and do washing up; on balance my wife does more cooking and I do more washing up but she's more imaginative than me when we have to work around the weekly vegetable assortment that's delivered to us.I think most same sex male couples I know would refer to each other as their husband but some might use the term partner. You really need to update the way you think about these things :-)

Michael Ixer ● 32d

I would assume that Elton John can afford to employ a financial advisor, a washer-persin, a cleaner and a cook to undertake all the duties you mention.

Steven Rose ● 32d

Furnish in the husband, then Elton must be the wife!!And that, dear Forum Readers, is why the modern world must be a nightmare to navigate for binary blokes like John.

Gerry Boyce ● 32d

Mr Robinson'"In my opinion it's better if politicians keep out of who one marries."'I don't care who marries who but I am always curious as to the roles played in same sex relationships.For example David Furnish is the husband of British singer, songwriter and pianist Elton John.Hence I assume Elton John is the wife.So who takes control of the finances and cleans the car and who does the washing, cleaning and cooking ?

John Hawkes ● 32d

"As Jeremy Hunt explains in the ‘Telegraph’ today, the number one problem facing the country right now is debt, which at the turn of the century was 34% of GDP and now stands at 100%. The OBR estimates that interest payment on that debt will be £111 billion this year, equating to £3900 of the tax bill for the average household.""The national debt has increased the most under the Conservative party, with analysis showing higher average borrowing and a greater increase in debt as a percentage of GDP during their post-2010 governments and in the post-war period when compared to Labour governments. Major spikes in debt have occurred following the 2008 financial crisis and the recent COVID-19 pandemic, both of which happened during Conservative-led governments. Key Findings:Post-War Analysis: A 2020 analysis found that Conservative governments, on average, borrowed more per year than Labour governments since World War Two. Debt as a % of GDP: The national debt as a proportion of GDP rose significantly under the Conservative governments from 2010 to 2024, reaching its highest level since the 1960s. Major Economic Crises: The periods immediately following the 2008 financial crisis and the COVID-19 pandemic, both under Conservative leadership, saw massive increases in national debt. Historical Trend: While Labour also borrowed money, analyses consistently show that the Conservative party has overseen the largest increases in national debt in the post-war era."Poor old Starmer (I hate saying it).

David Ainsworth ● 32d

As Jeremy Hunt explains in the ‘Telegraph’ today, the number one problem facing the country right now is debt, which at the turn of the century was 34% of GDP and now stands at 100%. The OBR estimates that interest payment on that debt will be £111 billion this year, equating to £3900 of the tax bill for the average household. The UK now has to pay the highest interest rates in the G7, higher even than Greece, in order to help fund that debt. This situation cannot continue indefinitely. The government must come up with a credible plan to balance the books, either by raising taxes or cutting spending. Tax rises, however, slow growth and eventually reduce the tax take, which defeats the whole purpose of taxation. So the only solution is spending cuts. Reducing the working age benefits bill to pre-pandemic levels would release £47 billion per year which could be spent on essential sectors like health and defence. International markets would then charge us less to borrow. A reduction of just 0.5% in the interest the UK has to pay would release a further £10 billion per year.It’s obvious that Labour is either unwilling or unable to reform the welfare system. Left wing backbenchers watered down even the modest plan put forward by the government to reduce spending. That is why the country needs a change of government. But which party would rise to the challenge?

Steven Rose ● 32d

Fair comment,  Ed. Perhaps I should have said politicians should be cautious when commenting on who people marry.

Michael Ixer ● 32d

"In my opinion it's better if politicians keep out of who one marries."If politicians did that you would not have same sex marriage with the same benefits as hetrosexual couples.It's only 5 years since the UK made same sex marriage legal throughout the UK.So when should politicians have kept out of state recognized relationships?What was the year that the UK achieved perfection and didn't require any discussion about such subjects?

Ed Robinson ● 32d

Farage was against same sex marriage apparently:https://www.scenemag.co.uk/reform-uk-leader-nigel-farage-declares-that-legalising-same-sex-marriage-was-wrong/There's little point in quoting the stats as gays, unless pretending not to be gay for ulterior motives - which might be the case for some politicians, particularly far right US evangelical supporting ones, aren't going to marry partners of the opposite sex.As some other posts have pointed out, there may be societal reasons for this - remember the despicable Conservative clause 28 - that probably made it more difficult for gays to form stable relationships. I can think of heterosexual couples whose relationship has ended but remain together as they have children while both having other partners outside of the marriage. In my opinion it's better if politicians keep out of who one marries. It's best for politicians not to comment as it indicates to me and others they're homophobic, even if it's just to attract the votes of homophobes.

Michael Ixer ● 32d

"As you show, divorce rates between heterosexual couples differ over time also."Although the author says rates and quotes numbers that is a very large drop.Here is the quote:"Questioned on whether he shared Kruger’s view, Farage said: “I think one thing for certain is children who have two stable parents have a better chance in life. And the most stable relationships, maybe not my example, but the most stable relationships, the ones that last the longest, tend to be between men and women.“I’m not absolutist about this in any way at all. I just happen to think of kids in the country not getting the start at home or at school that they deserve."https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nigel-farage-accused-vile-homophobia-114548746.html

Ed Robinson ● 32d

As you show, divorce rates between heterosexual couples differ over time also.And "divorce rates vary significantly between different religious groups, with generally lower rates observed among regularly practicing Catholics, Jews, and Mainline Protestants compared to non-religious individuals and other groups, though rates vary by country and denomination. Factors such as religious beliefs, community support, and differing values in mixed-faith marriages also influence divorce rates across different religious backgrounds."As for Farage being homophobic, his views seem to wobble.

David Ainsworth ● 32d

Most relationships are heterosexual so most stable relationships will also be.But if you look at the percentage then a number of sources in different countries  report that divorce rates are higher for same sex couples than heterosexual couples with female same sex couples having the highest divorce rate.It's not homophobic to quote statistics and Farage is no doubt aware of his own circumstances. Is there any evidence that Farage is homophobic? I think there is enough to disagree with Farage without possibly making stuff up. But more importantly it stops discussions and solutions.The article below has some interesting views which I agree with. Couples are good for society and same sex or otherwise need support. On the other hand, divorce rates among heterosexual couples have been steadily declining since 2004 — from nearly 214,000 divorces to just 129,000 in 2023. Over time, it is possible that as same-sex marriages become more established and normalized within society, their divorce rates may follow a similar trajectory.https://www.datapulse.de/en/same-sex-divorce/

Ed Robinson ● 32d

Mr Boyce'The growth industries here, as far as I can see, are in the media: right wing provocateur ideally espousing casual racism and homophonic ideas'Certainly a media full of 'Opinion pieces' seems to have grown.But not all give a 'right wing' (can you define this as I can't ?) perspective.Have you ever read the Guardian which is full top to bottom with pieces that I would claim are the opposite of 'right wing' i.e 'left wing'.All espousing full racism in their rabid attacks on Israel and also classism in their elitist dismissal of anything that espouses a white working class point of view.And of course they hate Farage even more than they do Starmer.Most of them are Oxbridge graduates hence the classism.And a good few were privately educated, a classic example being Zoe Williams who does her best to 'get down with the workers'.Other examples are young Owen Jones; brought up 'working class' but also an Oxford graduate and John Harris - state educated but another Oxford graduate.Then a classic example of elitist journalism comes from Marina Hyde 'the daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet, and his wife, the former Diana Elizabeth Jane Duncan. Through her father, she is the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams, 1st Baronet. Hyde was privately educated at Downe House School, near Newbury in Berkshire, and read English at the University of Oxford where she was an undergraduate student at Christ Church, Oxford.Always good for a laugh as she mocks the Conservative toffs.Then we have George Monbiot an old Etonian telling us the world is doomed; Dame Polly Toynbee who spends a lot of her time educating the readers on all manner of issues in articles penned from her villa in Tuscany; and Nesrine Malik  Sudan born (but not living there now !) who can write reams and reams on how wicked Israel and the Jews are.Plenty of casual dismissal of the Jews and others' opinions they don't like.

John Hawkes ● 33d

Thank you, Mr Hawkes 

Michael Ixer ● 33d

Mr Hawkes. I just hope he doesn't make it down to the Rocket :-)

Michael Ixer ● 33d

Jobs have changed a lot in our lifetime as there are many fewer managers and almost everyone now seems to write their own email communications and do their own admin instead of having any admin staff.  This puts extra time stress on the professionals who are often also out and about carrying out their work.  This can make it very time consuming for everyone checking up on emails and phone calls as well as those trying to make contact.  Instead of getting site reports in the post or even by email now you may have to sign in online to find out whether there has been a site visit and to read any report and remember to do that before meetings.  An awful lot of time now can be spent just chasing this or that person (if you actually know who it is) with phones and messages to call going unanswered.  This isn't really satisfying progress when it is so stressful and frustrating! And as for having to deal with AI Personal Assistants..... it is unbelievably irritating being expected to spend time training them.Good luck with looking for that job but don't dismiss the IT  because you really just can't get away from it!

Philippa Bond ● 33d

Mr Boyce'I’m not at all surprised that so many young people are depressed, demotivated and anxious about their future; depression seems like an entirely reasonable response to a future which in which they are laden with debt from the moment the leave third level education, with zero prospect of home ownership or secure renting, a high probability of low paid, unsecure, precarious employment, and a lack of any positive vision as regards dealing with climate change. And that is just the start, without wanting to mention ongoing wars and clownish politicians sponsored by global industries ensuring their vested interests are protected'"It's being so cheerful that keeps me going"?Mona Lott from ITMA (It's That Man Again)And the solution is ?

John Hawkes ● 33d

Mr Ixer'I wonder what evidence Mr Farage had for making this homophonic statement?'Perhaps he was just singing along at his local !

John Hawkes ● 33d

Mr IxerYou make good points regarding the effect of new technology has on employment rates and job availability.

John Hawkes ● 33d

Ms Carter'there were 634,000 young people aged 16 to 24 who were unemployed, 59,000 more than the previous year. The unemployment rate for young people was 14.1%, up from 13.4% from the year before‘. Do you give any credence to the claim 'businesses are refusing to recruit new staff because they are desperately worried about potential tax rises in Rachel Reeves’s November Budget. Firms are putting off recruitment until they see what the Chancellor does, a new expert report shows. It follows last year’s Budget when the Chancellor put up National Insurance rates for businesses, increasing the cost of employing workers by £25billion, while increases to the minimum wage also pushed up costs. Firms also fear that the Government’s Employment Rights Bill will make it even more expensive to hire staff'.

John Hawkes ● 33d

Mr Ainsworth'"One statistic is that the proportion of people aged 16 to 24 who are economically inactive (i.e. not in employment, not seeking employment and not in education or training) is around 40%."So, having no income, what are they living on ?If their parents support them fine.If not they should seek employment or training.

John Hawkes ● 33d

Mr Ainsworth'what proportion of these 4 million adults are actually fit to work'This depends on how you define 'fit to work'.Wheelchair bound probably not fit.Suffering from 'anxiety' probably fit if they got off their *rses.

John Hawkes ● 33d

Mr Rose'It is implausible that so many individuals, some quite young, are unfit to work.'Of course it is.But while they can get 'cash in hand jobs' like fast food delivery and can claim benefits online perhaps by chatting with a bot, why would they want to work.I feel sympathy for the 'squeezed middle', the group that work and pay taxes and sit between pensioners and the determinedly unemployed on benefits.

John Hawkes ● 33d

The growth industries here, as far as I can see, are in the media: right wing provocateur ideally espousing casual racism and homophonic ideas, or internet influencer flogging botox jabs, steroids and fentanyl…..that or dog walking.

Gerry Boyce ● 33d

As a shortsighted pessimist, may I ask if there is anyone who sees employment opportunities really expanding in the years to come?Perhaps the design amd manufacture of robots and drones, but surely even that ... ?-------------------------------The Terminator: I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle. Oh, and your job.

David Ainsworth ● 33d

"However the House of Commons library indeed states the 39.6% to which you refer. Clearly the unemployment rate of the young is a cause of concern but I don’t understand the difference between the nearly half’ and the 14%."The House of Commons Library says:-"In April to June 2025there were 634,000 young people aged 16 to 24 who were unemployed, 59,000 more than the previous year. The unemployment rate for young people was 14.1%, up from 13.4% from the year beforethere were 3.85 million young people aged 16 to 24 in employment, 137,000 more than the previous year. The employment rate for young people was 51.8%, up from 50.8% the year beforethere were 2.94 million young people aged 16 to 24 who were economically inactive, 71,000 fewer than the previous year. The inactivity rate for young people was 39.6%, down from 41.3% from the year beforeIn January to March 2025, there were 923,000 people aged 16 to 24 who were not in employment, education or training (NEET), 12.5% of all 16-to-24-year-olds. This includes unemployed and economically inactive young people who are not in education or training."AI has some help:-"What "Economically Inactive" Means for Young People:    • The category of economically inactive includes people who are not seeking or available for work.     • For young people (16-24), a significant reason for economic inactivity is being in full-time education. In Q2 2023, for example, about 30% of young people were inactive because they were students.     • Other reasons for economic inactivity in this age group can include long-term sickness or disability, but the rate for students is a major factor. "I think that this helps a bit, though my head doth spin.

David Ainsworth ● 33d

That's very respectful of you towards your son, Martine. I guess a lot of organisations just aren't committing to positions at present because of economic or geopolitical uncertainties at present. I suppose I'm in touch with those who are firefighting or trying to avoid cyber attacks because of a lack of previous investments! Sort of glad I'm retired ...Wishing you and your son well in the job hunting. 

Michael Ixer ● 33d

My son isn’t doing the sort of tech. you are involved in Michael, but thanks for the advice.  I don’t want to be more specific because it’s not fair on him for me to talk about his life.  I am just keeping it general. One mum said to me that the kids can’t even get jobs through having contacts.  The young people want jobs with prospects which is where there seems to be a shortage. Casual work seems to be available.  

Martine Guy ● 33d

It's interesting,  Martine. I know some IT and CyberSec companies complaining they "can't get the staff" and some organisations that try and promote those areas. But they'll rule out people, say, over 50 even though they have lots of experience (ok, I know it's not legal but it's common), or youngsters get ruled out because they don't have five or ten years experience (how do they get that without a job and training?). So there must be jobs out there ... it just needs better vision on employer's part?  I sat in on a discussion session at a trade shows a couple of years ago; it was data centre mangers complaining no youngsters applied to them as (1) they didn't know there were big warehouses of computers and storage driving all their phones apps (2) they wanted the high profile jobs: writing games, AI, phone apps software.I hope your son does well and finds a job, I don't know exactly what he's studying but I'm sure there must be jobs for "techies" - and there's always data centres - I see Google are investing in the UK. Perhaps start researching the jobs market early on?

Michael Ixer ● 33d

I’m not at all surprised that so many young people are depressed, demotivated and anxious about their future; depression seems like an entirely reasonable response to a future which in which they are laden with debt from the moment the leave third level education, with zero prospect of home ownership or secure renting, a high probability of low paid, unsecure, precarious employment, and a lack of any positive vision as regards dealing with climate change. And that is just the start, without wanting to mention ongoing wars and clownish politicians sponsored by global industries ensuring their vested interests are protected. ‘No, mum, I’m not getting up today, I feel crap and I’m staying in bed’.

Gerry Boyce ● 33d

Re: Employment/Unemployment, what I am hearing from people is that it’s difficult to get a job.  Someone mentioned to me yesterday that there are no jobs for young people, eg in construction.  Also I know someone at Oxbridge who is worried about the jobs situation, This is of particular concern to me as I have a 19 year old at University.  He is doing a tech. degree, the type you would have done once at a polytechnic.  I hope he gets a job at the end of the course.

Martine Guy ● 33d

Ha, ha, David. Tripped up by predictive text again: homophonic - characterized by the movement of accompanying parts in the same rhythm as the melody. Well, it could be relevant in a straight or gay context, I'll leave the "accompanying parts" to your imagination? :-) But I still think Nigel's comment was homophobic - I can think of one gay couple who've been together for 30+ years; that beats his record of relationships …

Michael Ixer ● 33d

Jane, that will teach me to skim quickly through to see if I want to respond to anything - I read that as "Michael, I can explain..." which made no sense! :-) To be honest I can't see any obvious reason for that discrepancy unless it's a timing difference. If someone did the stats immediately after final exams there might be many "economically inactive" between education and work? But really one for Radio 4's More or Less where they can dig into the underlying data. There is a concern that many entry level jobs - the ones taken by school leavers - are being taken over by AI so higher education might become more important - someone's got to write and maintain the other AI. Of course, someone's got to build the data centres fuelling AI ... but modular robotic manufacturing of data centre units will probably reduce those needed at a "nuts and bolts" level. (That's why Trump's plan to shift manufacturing back to the US will have limited success; the new factories will use more and more robotics ... let's be honest, even fast food outlets are using more and more self service kiosks!)Not sure that really answers what you asked :-)

Michael Ixer ● 33d

I did know who he is but interestingly since both his parents were/are South African doesn't that mean he fails the criteria for "white British" that that Professor who has made so much of birth numbers such as this in his book and which the right wing media have been promoting so as to to cause more division in society?

Philippa Bond ● 33d

"twice married, now living with a third partner Nigel Fagage!""Nigel Fagage"Not quite homophonic, as Mr Ixer might write.

David Ainsworth ● 33d

"The most stable relationships, the ones that last the longest, tend to be between men and women," says twice married, now living with a third partner Nigel Fagage!I wouldn't take relationship advice (or, for that matter, any other advice) from this character.

Richard Carter ● 33d

Michael - see posts from 01.01 onwards

Jane Carter ● 33d

Jane, I don't think I've been following this part of the discussion ..."Perhaps Michael I can explain?"

Michael Ixer ● 33d

I wonder what evidence Mr Farage had for making this homophonic statement? More likely just sharing a prejudice when welcoming his new party member?https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farage-homophobia-reform-conservative-b2826737.html

Michael Ixer ● 33d

And we must not forget the devastating effect the increase in NI has had on small businesses, many of which went under.  The effect was not only felt by small businesses and many businesses have slowed down employment.

Ivonne Holliday ● 33d

Rather than sniping at the Left or sneering at young people too ‘ravaged ‘ by mental illness to leave the house, it’s probably more useful to stick to the facts.According to the ONS ‘ In April to June 2025:there were 634,000 young people aged 16 to 24 who were unemployed, 59,000 more than the previous year. The unemployment rate for young people was 14.1%, up from 13.4% from the year before‘. However the House of Commons library indeed states the 39.6% to which you refer. Clearly the unemployment rate of the young is a cause of concern but I don’t understand the difference between the nearly half’ and the 14%. Perhaps Michael I can explain?

Jane Carter ● 33d

"What rational explanation can be for the fact that 40% of young people between 16 and 24 are economically inactive? Are we supposed to believe that almost half of young people in the prime of life ate too infirm to leave the house? Or has mental illness so ravaged the younger generation that barely a majority are capable of working or looking for a job or studying? It's simply not credible. Something has obviously gone seriously wrong in our country. Yet many on the left refuse to see it. Why?"As you say, it's simply not credible. Can you please give your source for the information?

David Ainsworth ● 33d

What rational explanation can be for the fact that 40% of young people between 16 and 24 are economically inactive? Are we supposed to believe that almost half of young people in the prime of life ate too infirm to leave the house? Or has mental illness so ravaged the younger generation that barely a majority are capable of working or looking for a job or studying? It's simply not credible. Something has obviously gone seriously wrong in our country. Yet many on the left refuse to see it. Why?

Steven Rose ● 33d

"One statistic is that the proportion of people aged 16 to 24 who are economically inactive (i.e. not in employment, not seeking employment and not in education or training) is around 40%."Are they all in receipt of incapacity payments?

David Ainsworth ● 33d

But what proportion of them are fit to work? I agree that those fit to work should, but we need to know who they are. Finding the numbers ´implausible’ isn’t evidence.

Jane Carter ● 33d

Labour membership numbers had become embarrassing and hence they stopped publishing them.I think it was Mandleson that said Labour support have no where to go.Can Labour actually manage their membership?? I'm not sure I have faith in their numbers even if they could supply them!"Labour goes quiet on membership data after LabourList reports falling numbers"https://labourlist.org/2025/05/labour-membership-numbers-members-how-many-political-party/

Ed Robinson ● 33d

One statistic is that the proportion of people aged 16 to 24 who are economically inactive (i.e. not in employment, not seeking employment and not in education or training) is around 40%.

Steven Rose ● 33d

There is an ideological void. Labour no longer believes in socialism but isn’t committed to a market economy either, so it veers between the two. They can’t decide whether they want to increase the size of the cake or cut the slices of the existing cake more equally. On the one hand they say they want to promote economic growth, but on the other they are unable to reduce  welfare spending requiring high levels of taxation which inhibit  growth. Keir Starmer’s cabinet has been drawn from the right of the party, but the  soft left Mainstream movement are taking advantage of the latest scandals to promote the candidacy of Andy Burnham who they think will move the party in the opposite direction. Unfortunately neither the right nor the left of the party are prepared to face economic reality, namely  that the country will be bankrupt unless it changes course.

Steven Rose ● 33d

"It is implausible that so many individuals, some quite young, are unfit to work."It may seem implausible to you, but do you have any statistics or other facts about this? For instance, what proportion of these 4 million adults are actually fit to work?

David Ainsworth ● 33d

Ivonne,I did not suggesting it's anyone fault regarding premature babies. We all probably know, have a sibling or close relative that was premature and would have died without medical intervention.I pushing back on the "absolute right to bodily autonomy" which means no constraints on the mother's decision to have an abortion including time limits.Unfortunately the UK follows the US in many policies and we have already seen some watering down of UK law.We also had recently the opinion that UK law was not sufficient to prosecute doctors that perform abortion purely due to the fetus not being the desired gender.In societies where there are no constraints, it is often females that get aborted often due to cultural or other pressures which leads to gender imbalances and wider society issues."Of course there must be a limit for abortions' Unfortunately not everyone believes that and the absolute right will remove it.

Ed Robinson ● 33d

Wow! Yesterday you were saying that there is ‘a void at the heart of Labour’, now your’re saying that ‘Mainstream Labour’ is backing Andy Burnham in his bid to bankrupt the country! You’re quite the drama queen Steve!

Gerry Boyce ● 33d

Pensioner benefits are the largest component of the welfare bill but incapacity payments, claimed by 4 million working age adults, account for £43 billion, estimated to rise to £63 billion by 2028. It is implausible that so many individuals, some quite young, are unfit to work. Welfare spending, unless it is reduced, is likely to bankrupt the country. Mainstream Labour, who are currently promoting the virtues of the Angel of the North, Andy Burnham, seem unwilling to recognise this fact.

Steven Rose ● 33d

So you will be OK with cuts in pensions, Ms Hammond?

David Ainsworth ● 33d

@Steven 17'06The voice of common sense! 👏🏻. The trouble is nobody in the current Government has any!

Sue Hammond ● 33d

Hello Ed,As a mother of a very premature baby, I do take exception to your words.  It was not my choice for my baby to be born at week 28!!!!!Of course there must be a limit for abortions - meaning abortions decided by the mother and not those that occur naturally at  20 weeks of pregnancy.Should the mother have a decision making power over having an abortion within the legal timeframe?  Absolutely!!!  After all, she is the one carrying the baby, not the father!Also, whatever the Democrats say in the States, it is for the US people to decide - nothing to do with the UK!Also, kindly tell me in which posts Richard and Gerry mentioned abortion times.

Ivonne Holliday ● 33d

"2018 was 7 years ago. Please quote some recent figures"I did write "But, naturally, Labour has lost 200,000 members since then." That was my guess for recent.End of last year:- 333,235 members:-https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce83jgnx4w5oLabour List back in February this year suggests 309,000.With a bit more rough arithmetic I reckon that now it might actually be a little below 300,000.It has to be guesswork, if, as you write, "Labour stopped reporting their membership figures".

David Ainsworth ● 33d

I seem to remember that Labour were not too choosey about defectors when they were in opposition.On tax it needs reform and apart from Dan Neidle, founder of tax policy (mentioned in the above thread) and some Reform policies a tweak here or there simply will no longer do. It's already over complicated and inefficient due to decades of Chancellors not being transparent by trying to hide increases as well as  creating political short term giveaway headlines.https://taxpolicy.org.uk

Ed Robinson ● 33d

David I believe Labour stopped reporting their membership figures.2018 was 7 years ago. Please quote some recent figures and while you at it pick up some milk and eggs all for a couple of bob!

Ed Robinson ● 33d

"absolute right to bodily autonomy"So Gerry and Richard are you saying you do not agree with UK law that includes limits on abortion?Sounds like you are echoing US Democrat extremists that believe in abortion right up to birth and Richard is just agreeingSo we leave one baby to die and another we put in an incubator and give round the clock care, purely on the decision on the mother?I hope these are loose words and you have simply not thought about what you have said!

Ed Robinson ● 33d

One aspect that should be looked into very carefully is the transfer of vast amounts of money to tax havens. It was, after all, one of the reasons for Brexit as the EU was introducing a law (cannot remember what if was called) regarding tax avoidance.From memory, this came about after the EU paid vast amounts to countries after the financial crisis of 2008 and it was discovered the very low tax receipts in some countries.

Ivonne Holliday ● 33d

I think a big part of the problem here is that there is not any form of comprehensive vision for what kind of country should be built, instead we get fairly minor squabbles about individual issues.I would say any positive moves towards a functioning country would require a much closer relationship to the European market, a much clearer approach to energy generation and security, a ‘green’ strategy that encompasses energy efficient homes in sustainable developments, as well as investment in public transport, investment in education to provide access to courses relevant for the new economy as opposed to a lot of rip-off uni degrees that cost a fortune and lead nowhere. Maybe Labour are laying the ground for the kind of changes that I think are required, if so, I wish they would let us know.What really is no help at all are flag waving tossers banging on about the European Court of Human Rights.

Gerry Boyce ● 33d

As David pointed out on another thread, Pensioner benefits: State pensions and other benefits for the elderly are by far the largest component of the welfare budget. So if you want to reduce the welfare budget you’ll either have to reduce their benefits or reduce the number of pensioners. Bearing in mind the outrage here when the chancellor tried to remove the winter fuel allowance, I can’t see this going down well.

Jane Carter ● 33d

Ok thanks. I understand those points, but aren’t they all still pretty minor moves. If it is accepted that lack of growth is a major issue that needs to be addressed, then I don’t really see how those changes you are suggesting really make much difference.

Gerry Boyce ● 34d

In answer to the question, ‘What should be done?’, the government  should start by reversing several of its ill- considered initiatives eg by removing VAT on private schools, abolishing IHT on family farms and restoring a flat rate tax on non doms at a rate comparable to that offered by other countries. Then it should abandon its workers rights bill, which is likely to stifle growth. Next it should restore its original bill to reduce the welfare before it was watered down by rebel MPs  who support Andy Burnham’s Mainstream movement.  Finally it should stop Miliband’s net zero madness.

Steven Rose ● 34d

"I hope he's going to do the right and proper thing and stand down and let the voters decide."I dunno. It may be a defection, but not a difference, in his mind.

David Ainsworth ● 34d

"By the way Reform now have 246,457 subscribed members."That's awfully good really. Still:-"Labour’s membership dipped slightly last year but remained above the half a million mark, suggesting the party is retaining the vast majority of the supporters it has gained under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.Figures from the party’s latest accounts show it had 518,659 members in December 2018, down from a peak of 564,443 the previous year." (Gdn 8/8/19). But, naturally, Labour has lost 200,000 members since then. Sad, but necessary, I'm sure."The Lefties are seriously bricking-it now because the realisation that Reform will form our next Government is extremely likely.  (Paddy Power odds for a Reform win are 10/11).  Nigel Farage our next PM!  As he once famously said 'well you're not laughing now!'"AI "The phrase is a euphemism and condensation of the more vulgar expression "shitting bricks". The imagery comes from the idea of being so frightened that you produce a large, solid stool in the shape of a brick."Well, I think that, in that case, Reform can do us all good. Certainly it will save many of us the price of laxatives.The effect of Mussolini's Fascists was a little too extreme, sadly. "Mussolini's regime used castor oil as a form of torture, forcing victims to drink large amounts, causing severe diarrhea, dehydration, and humiliation."Anyway, perhaps Farage will arrange for all these solid bricks to be sent to Trump for one of his border walls.

David Ainsworth ● 34d

Kruger clearly said that the Tories are over and that's why he left. Fair enough!If I was in  East Wiltshire I would want a by-election, I hope he's going to do the right and proper thing and stand down and let the voters decide.

Gerry Boyce ● 34d

You don’t have to repeat my whole post just to tack on  a barely decipherable line at the end! Snoozers are losers, John, come on, wake up! Also, you haven’t  made any suggestions as to who might be up to the task of sorting this omnishambles out.

Gerry Boyce ● 34d

Oh dear.  All the know-alls who actually knew nothing about Danny Kruger but ridiculed him anyway, and led by Richard Carter, have been educated by Steven Rose.👏🏻  If you want to know how and why Mr Kruger defected from the Tories to Reform the link below is the live stream of the announcement/press briefing this morning:https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16z4EAqeVH/?mibextid=wwXIfrThe Lefties are seriously bricking-it now because the realisation that Reform will form our next Government is extremely likely.  (Paddy Power odds for a Reform win are 10/11).  Nigel Farage our next PM!  As he once famously said 'well you're not laughing now!' By the way Reform now have 246,457 subscribed members.

Sue Hammond ● 34d

Mr RoseZara Sultana who has defected from Labour and will/might join with Corbyn in forming a new one has given voice to its mission statement."Describing her fellow MPs as ‘dishonourable members’, Sultana outlined her path to power. ‘Kick out the Tories. Tell Reform to “fuck off”. And take on Labour, the genocide-enabling party which is now also the nonce party".Far left ?!No details about how this will be done though.

John Hawkes ● 34d

Mr Boyce'In order to move forward we have got to understand why things are so bad; this partial list should go some way to reminding us why we are in the mess we are in'.For how long can the Labour Party continue to blame the previous Conservative government for the current economic state of the country ?'As to how we get out of it, that is the billion dollar question.I know who doesn't have the answers, the question is, who does?'Are those that don't also the Greens, LibDems and Reform ?

John Hawkes ● 34d

In order to move forward we have got to understand why things are so bad; this partial list should go some way to reminding us why we are in the mess we are in. As to how we get out of it, that is the billion dollar question.I know who doesn't have the answers, the question is, who does? Any and all suggestions are more than welcome.

Gerry Boyce ● 34d

Liz Truss, Kwasi  Kwarteng, Matt Hancock, Boris Johnson,  Suella Braverman , Priti Patel, Dominic Raab…  Oh dear. It  all sounds like Orwell’s ‘Two Minute Hate’ in ‘1984’ where the workers vent their hatred against class enemies in a daily ritual. I realise that this kind of thing must be therapeutic for disappointed left wing enthusiasts, but rather than expressing contempt for former Conservative ministers (only one of whom is actually an MP right now), wouldn’t it be more useful to consider what needs to be done to rescue the country?

Steven Rose ● 34d

Hello Richard,I had not heard of Danny Kruger either.  Considering there are some 650 MPs in the HoC, it is not surprising!  I Googled him and found he is Prue Leith's son.  I am not too sure what worries me most.  That he (and others) have left the Conservative Party or the fact that they have gone to Reform......I do not think that Badenoch is an asset to the Conservative Party, far from it.  It is time they put their thinking caps on.  The problem is that there is no suitable Conservative politician to take over from her.....As for Nadine Dorries, Reform are more than welcome to her.  Her suggestion that Boris Johnson joins Nigel Farage is, well, to put it politely, catastrophic for the UK! I suppose she is still looking to be made a Lady.......

Ivonne Holliday ● 34d

Indeed...but Phuckjumbo or The Henley-gobshite is usually as close as I get to uttering his name.Don't forget Suella Braverman, Priti Pattel, Peter Bone and Dominic Raaaaaaaaab.

Gerry Boyce ● 34d

"And that's before you get to Brexit, Liz Truss, Kwesi Kwarteng, Michelle Mone, Matt Hancock, Chris Pincher etc etc."And possibly the worst of a very bad bunch, Johnson!

Richard Carter ● 34d

Yes, Danny Kruger's fame never made its way to me either, then again, I tend not to bother with nutters who think that women shouldn't have an "absolute right to bodily autonomy". Or that that marriages between men and women were "the only possible basis for a safe and successful society". He is correct though when he says, "The rule of our time (the tories) in office was failure. Bigger government, social decline, lower wages, higher taxes and less of what ordinary people actually wanted."And that's before you get to Brexit, Liz Truss, Kwesi Kwarteng, Michelle Mone, Matt Hancock, Chris Pincher etc etc.

Gerry Boyce ● 34d

Reform's admin must be something busy counting the defections from the Conservatives that they forget a little matter like reporting Nigel's expenses ...https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-trump-visit-parliamentary-rules-b2826380.html

Michael Ixer ● 34d

As matters stand I'm more than happy to put aside my usual party loyalty and support any party that will help to stop the economic mess being caused by the incumbents.  I have yet to find to a credible tax expert do anything but condemn the proposed tax plans as utter lunacy.  It's worth following a chat called Dan Neidle on the issue - he's traditionally a bit of a lefty but he understands his onions when it comes to tax and has reviewed the proposals in detail (as has many within his network) and think they do nothing but cause damage. I hope for some sort of wider coalition that can get these guys out before the damage gets worse.

John Geoffries ● 34d

He's not done nothing. At least he has caused a local deer stampede - or his dog has."Mr Hockley said the deer, many of which were pregnant, were left in a “panicked state”, while Pc Riggs called out for the owner, who was “at that point nowhere to be seen”, to bring the dog under control.Volunteer ranger Duncan MacCallum said he asked Kruger to call his puppy back, “which seemed to spur him into action”, the court heard."Perhaps he hopes to create another (Tory) stampede - towards Reform?

David Ainsworth ● 34d

I think, Richard, that anyone who observes the political scene attentively, would have heard of Danny Kruger. He received an MBE in 2017 for his charity work, being the founder of Only Connect, a charity aiming to prevent youth crime. He is an evangelical Christian who argued strongly against the Assisted Dying bill.

Steven Rose ● 34d

According to the Independent, Prue Leith's son, and also was shadow minister for work and pensions. No, I'd never heard of him. The question now being asked is how long will Ms Badenock remain leader of the Conservative Party? Surely it's time for them to have another change?

Michael Ixer ● 34d