Forum Topic

Jeremy Bowen talks to a squatter/settler

"Bowen: Israeli settlers intensify campaign to drive out West Bank Palestinians"BBC 10/8/25."The conflict between Arabs and Jews for control of the land between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea started well over a century ago when Zionists from Europe began to buy land to set up communities in Palestine.It has been shaped by significant turning points.The latest has come from the deadly 7 October 2023 attacks by Hamas and Israel's devastating response.The consequences of the last 22 months of war, and however more months are left before a ceasefire, threaten to spread across years and generations, just like the Middle East war in 1967, when Israel captured Gaza from Egypt and East Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan.The scale of destruction and killing in the Gaza war obscures what is happening in the West Bank, which smoulders with tension and violence.Since October 2023, Israel's pressure on West Bank Palestinians has increased sharply, justified as legitimate security measures.Evidence based on statements by ministers, influential local leaders like Simcha and accounts by witnesses on the ground reveal that the pressure is part of a wider agenda, to accelerate the spread of Jewish settlements in the occupied territories and to extinguish any lingering hopes of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.Palestinians and human rights groups also accuse the Israeli security forces of failing in their legal duty as occupiers to protect Palestinians as well as their own citizens - not just turning a blind eye to settler attacks, but even joining in.Violence by ultra-nationalist Jewish settlers in the West Bank has risen sharply since 7 October 2023.Ocha, the UN's humanitarian office, estimates an average of four settler attacks every day.The International Court of Justice has issued an advisory opinion that the entire occupation of Palestinian territory captured in 1967 is illegal.Israel's rejects the ICJ's view and claims that the Geneva Conventions forbidding settlement in occupied territories do not apply - a view disputed by many of its own allies as well as international lawyers.In the shade of the fig tree, Simcha denied all suggestions he had attacked Palestinians, as he celebrated the fact that most of the Arab farmers who used to graze their animals on the hills he has SEIZED and tend their olives in the valleys had gone.He looks back to the Hamas October attacks, and Israel's response ever since, as a turning point."I think that a lot has changed, that the enemy in our land lost hope. He's beginning to understand that he's on his way out; that's what has changed in the last year or year and a half."Today you can walk around here in the land in the desert, and nobody will jump on you and try to kill you. There are still attempts to oppose our presence here in this land, but the enemy is starting to understand this slowly. They have no future here."The reality has changed. I ask you and the people of the world, why are you so interested in those Palestinians so much? Why do you care about them? It's just another small nation."The Palestinians don't interest me. I care about my people."Simcha says the Palestinians who left villages and farms near the hilltops he has claimed simply realised that God intended the land for Jews, not for them.""At a ceremony in one of them ("outposts") in the south Hebron Hills in April this year, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, whose powers over the running of the occupation also make him something like the governor of the West Bank, donated 19 all-terrain vehicles to the settlers. He praised them for "grabbing massive territories".A sharp-eyed reporter at the Times of Israel pointed out that one of the settlers at the ceremony, Yinon Levi, had been filmed harassing Palestinians from an all-terrain vehicle. Levi is sanctioned by the UK and the European Union for using violence to drive Palestinians off their land, though President Trump lifted similar sanctions imposed by Joe Biden.Levi is radical settler royalty, married to the daughter of Noam Federman - a notorious extremist. Federman is a former leader of the Kach party, which is designated as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US, the European Union and others.On 28 July this year, Yinon Levi fired a bullet that killed Odeh Hathaleen, a Palestinian activist and journalist, during a disturbance in the West Bank village of Umm al-Khair. Levi pleaded self-defence and was released after three days of house arrest.When we went to Umm al-Khair, Hathaleen's dried blood was still at the place where he was killed.His brother, Khalil, told me the dead man was holding his five-year-old son, Watan, and filming the violent scenes on his phone when he was killed."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj4wwxz12jkoThis project has been going on for over a hundred years. It is getting ever closer to fulfilment.

David Ainsworth ● 1d23 Comments

Mr Ainsworth'The Palestinian territories are served by parallel ministries of health operating in Gaza and the West Bank, overseen by a single government ministry of health based in Ramallah. Following Hamas' takeover of Gaza in 2007, the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip has appointed its own alternate health ministers, but the Palestinian Authority (PA) retains power over it, paying salaries and supplying it with medical equipment.So we are supposed to believe any fact such as this from a proscribed terrorist organisation that is Hamas ?Do you not think all of this destruction and bloodshed would stop if Qassam Brigades, Hamas’ military arm, which co-ordinated the Oct. 7 attack but also other armed factions that participated, and have been fighting against Israel in the ongoing war?These include Al-Quds Brigades (Islamic Jihad).The al-Quds Brigades, or Saraya al-Quds, is the armed wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad movement. It is the second largest armed group in Gaza, behind Hamas’ Qassam Brigades.Al-Nasser Brigades (Popular Resistance Committee)The al-Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades, or al-Nasser Brigades, is the armed wing of the Popular Resistance Committees. It’s considered the third largest armed group in Gaza, with several thousand fighters and an arsenal of dozens of rockets and mortar shells.Al-Aqsa Martyrs BrigadesThe al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades was also founded with the second Intifada in 2000 from smaller cells with links to the Fatah movement. It has since then spread across the West Bank and Gaza.In 2007, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas dissolved the armed faction, and absorbed most of its members in the Palestinian Authority security agencies.Abu Ali Mustafa BrigadesThe Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades is the military arm of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, PFLP. The PFLP was originally a Marxist group founded by prominent Palestinian politician George Habash.Ranged against these lunatic groups (which doubtless you see as 'freedom fighters against white imperialism') is not Israel right to be fearful as they all call for its annihilation ?Whose side are you on ?What is your ideal resolution to the conflict ?Why do you hate with such venom the world's only Jewish based state ?Let me guess.

John Hawkes ● 19h

"As of 30 July 2025, over 63,000 people (61,805 Palestinians and 1,983 Israelis) have been reported killed in the Gaza war according to the Gaza Health Ministry (GHM) and Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, as well as 217 journalists and media workers, 120 academics, and over 224 humanitarian aid workers, a number that includes 179 employees of UNRWA. Scholars have estimated 80% of Palestinians killed are civilians. A study by OHCHR, which verified fatalities from three independent sources, found that 70% of the Palestinians killed in residential buildings or similar housing were women and children.The majority of casualties have been in the Gaza Strip. The GHM total casualty count is the number of deaths directly caused by the war. The demographic breakdown is a subset of those individually identified. On 17 September 2024, the GHM published the names, gender and birth date of 34,344 individual Palestinians whose identities were confirmed and continues to attempt to identify all casualties. The GHM count does not include those who have died from "preventable disease, malnutrition and other consequences of the war". An analysis by the Gaza Health Projections Working Group predicted thousands of excess deaths from disease and birth complications"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_warA mounting humanitarian crisisThe UN estimates that approximately 92 per cent of all residential buildings in Gaza – around 436,000 homes – have been damaged or destroyed since the start of the conflict.The resulting debris amounts to nearly 50 million tonnes – an overwhelming quantity of rubble that would take decades to remove under current conditions.Humanitarian organizations warn that the delay in debris removal and body recovery is not only deepening psychological trauma across Gaza but also threatens to become a public health and environmental catastrophe.Gaza: Destruction of vital lifting gear halts search for thousands buried under rubble | UN Newshttps://news.un.org/en/story/2025/04/1162491#:~:text=The%20UN%20estimates%20that%20approximately,the%20start%20of%20the%20conflict.

David Ainsworth ● 22h

Mr AinsworthI understand that Starmer has given Israel till September to stop its military activities in defending itself against attacks by Hamas or else he will 'recognise the state of Palestine' (which is where Hamas is based).Do you see the logic in this ?Below is an erudite article that challenges the basis of this position.You might read it and give a response.Jonathan SacerdotiThe demonisation of Israeli ‘settlers’10 August 2025, 12:00amhttps://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-demonisation-of-israeli-settlers/Extracts -'Israel’s most demonised group may well be the ‘settlers’. Britain’s own (sic) Foreign Secretary David Lammy has frequently demonised them, calling their behaviour ‘abhorrent’, and the current British government has focused repeatedly on settlers as a useful tool to openly criticise Israel as the major obstacle to peace. For many years, within Israel they have been treated by similar elites not as citizens with arguments but as extremists to be condemned. Their intentions are questioned. Their stories ignored. Their presence framed as a national embarrassment.If the Gaza settlers had truly been the sole obstacle to peace, then peace should have followed their removal. But only 20 years after Israel’s unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip, that illusion lies in ruins. Over 8,000 Israelis were expelled from their homes, their communities razed, their lives uprooted by the very state they believed they were defending. The land they left behind was seized by Hamas, and within mere weeks rockets began to fall on Israeli towns. Withdrawal was supposed to help end the conflict. Instead, it shifted its axis, and set the stage for possibly the darkest days in Israel’s history.The Gaza disengagement was conceived as a strategic reset. It was meant to reduce friction, ease international pressure, and create space for a political solution. In practice, it was read by Israel’s enemies as a surrender. Many of the settlers of Gush Katif in the Gaza Strip said so at the time. They warned that abandoning Gaza unilaterally would embolden terrorists, demoralise Israeli society, and create a power vacuum certain to be filled by Hamas. They were right. And they were ignored. The word ‘settler’ has become a slur, emptied of context and weaponised with abandon, even by our own Foreign Office.KEY POINT-But facts remain. After the disengagement, Hamas took over. It didn’t build hospitals or universities, but terror tunnels, rocket factories, and arsenals. It diverted international aid into military infrastructure and hoarded millions of pounds of cash underground. And it made its intentions explicit: not coexistence, but annihilation. What began with the evacuation of Gaza’s ‘settlers’ ended in the massacre of civilians. The arc is not incidental'.How many Forum posters, particularly you Mr Ainsworth, know what Gazans were offered and understand the reason, apart from antisemitism, why Hamas turned this offer into genocide against the Jews and something of no benefit to the Palestinians ?

John Hawkes ● 1d

Mr Rose'Michael, Putney Forum is supposed to be a place for exchanging opinion, not for trading insults. If you have a specific point to make about the conflict, why not make it, rather than attack John Hawkes?'To me Mr Brigo's comments about me are water off a duck's back.I have accepted that he is not very bright and does not have the intellect to conduct a rationale argument.Hence he results to childish insults.You are absolutely right about Bowen.Totally biased over this conflict as is most of the BBC, which as I have commented on before seems to have an Arabic Language Service but not a Hebrew one.Bearing in mind the BBC's position on the conflict, this service is no more than an Arab/Palestinian/Hamas propaganda  mouthpiece.Were it not so, then Bowen would ask Abbas (unelected leader of the Palestinian Authority), a renowned antisemite whose comments I have posted earlier, all of the difficult questions you raise.Yet our Labour Prime Minister Keir Starmer only puts the pressure on Israel to stop what he sees as aggression against Hamas and other Palestinian groups whilst many of us  see their actions as self-defence though not always carried out with much of an eye for good PR.This lack of PR nous is really Israel's biggest failure and has lead to the Alice in Wonderland situation of Israel always seen as the 'baddies' and Hamas and Palestine the 'goodies' - even after the pogrom of October 2023. Still it's countdown time before Starmer says to Israel in his best Churchillian oracy "Your time is up, you have not done what we told you to and now the UK Labour Government will act".Then what ?Fly a combat squad of Palestine Action volunteers, led by Capn Ainsworth with Corporal Brigo as 2i/c ?'Those Israeli's won't like it up 'em Sir".

John Hawkes ● 1d

Mr Ainsworth'The latest has come from the deadly 7 October 2023 attacks by Hamas and Israel's devastating response'.Which is worse ? 'Deadly or devastating' ?'The scale of destruction and killing in the Gaza war obscures what is happening in the West Bank, which smoulders with tension and violence.'Well at least Bowen did not use the word genocide. Even he is not that dumb one hopes.'Since October 2023, Israel's pressure on West Bank Palestinians has increased sharply, justified as legitimate security measures.'Obviously Bowen does not think Israel should feel as vulnerable to attacks by the Palestinian Authority as it does, completely justifiably, regarding attacks from Hamas in Gaza.Has Bowen condemned these and the fact that they still hold women, childen and the elderly hostage, as well as corpses.Come to that, do you ?Your one sided anti-Israel posts would lead any rational person to think not. "He looks back to the Hamas October attacks, and Israel's response ever since, as a turning point."I think that a lot has changed, that the enemy in our land lost hope. He's beginning to understand that he's on his way out; that's what has changed in the last year or year and a half."Today you can walk around here in the land in the desert, and nobody will jump on you and try to kill you. There are still attempts to oppose our presence here in this land, but the enemy is starting to understand this slowly. They have no future here.The reality has changed. I ask you and the people of the world, why are you so interested in those Palestinians so much? Why do you care about them? It's just another small nation."'The answer is antisemitism.And the white privileged smugness of many that the Palestinians are a poor oppressed non-white group who mean nothing but good, have and have shown no antipathy to Jews and just want to get on building a democratic and economically viably state to peacefully rival Israel. As if.Do you and Bowen remember the October 2023 pogrom ? 

John Hawkes ● 1d