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I agree with many of the views expressed in your last post, Gerry, especially in the second paragraph. The problem is that Hamas don't agree. They have no desire to lay down their arms, let alone be dismantled as an organisation. They want to emerge victorious. And they think their best hope of achieving victory is for Western nations, particularly America, to impose a ceasefire on Israel, leaving them in control of parts of Gaza and still in possession of the remaining hostages, whom they will use as bargaining chips.A two state solution would be a good idea, but is it feasible at the moment? I think Israel's decision to build settlements on the West Bank since 1967 has been a tragic mistake, as has the decision by the Palestinian leadership on two occasions to reject Israel's offer to withdraw from 95% of the West Bank in return for peace. Unfortunately there are now 700 000 Israelis living in settlements. Moving them all back to Israel would be an immense and expensive undertaking, though not impossible. But the economic  aspect is not the biggest obstacle. The problem for many Israelis in a two state solution is the complete lack of trust in the Palestinians to stick to any peace deal. The Israelis have no regard for Mahmoud Abbas whom they regard as an anti-Semite. In a speech given in September 2023 he said that the Germans fought against the Jews in the Second World War because of their role as moneylenders, echoing the view expressed in his doctoral dissertation many years earlier. Abbas was also part of the delegation at Camp David in 2000 when Yasser Arafat refused Ehud Barak's offer to withdraw from the West Bank and Abbas himself rejected a similar offer from Ehud  Olmert in 2008. The sticking point on both occasions was the Palestinians' insistence on a right of return of 4 million Palestinians to Israel. But more importantly Abbas is deeply unpopular on the West Bank. Polls suggest that around 80% of the electorate would vote for the candidate from Hamas. So you can understand the reluctance of Israel to allow the creation of a Palestinian state on the West Bank which would be run by Hamas and whose principal aim would be the destruction of Israel.

Steven Rose ● 16d

Richard, your penultimate post demonstrates the way in which critics of Israel use the conflict in Gaza to signal their virtue and enjoy the satisfaction of righteous indignation. Your point seems to be that, unlike your good self,  I show insufficient compassion for the victims of the conflict. This thread is not a competition to see who can express most compassion. It’s a discussion about whether Israel is guilty of genocide. Neither you, nor the UN Special Rapporteur nor anyone else have provided any evidence to show that Israel intends to exterminate the Palestinian population of Palestine. Your second post is full of errors. The idea that 70% of the victims are women and children is simply a lie propagated by Hamas and repeated by useful idiots. How is that even plausible? Are we to believe that Israel which has one of the most powerful armies in the world, using laser guided weapons, targets Hamas militants and somehow manages to hit women and children instead? The IDF believe that up to half of those killed were Hamas militants, who are virtually all men. Many of the civilians sadly killed will also have been male adults. Do the maths.There have been violent incidents at food distribution points, both at the GHF posts  and those of other humanitarian agencies. The circumstances are not clear. I suspect that the contractors and the  IDF have fired at Hamas militants approaching the queues. But that is not the point. Those who accuse Israel of genocide have suggested that Israel is trying to starve the Palestinians to death. If that were true, why would they distribute food?The accusation of genocide has indeed been made by many organisations, but not by responsible organisations, rather by irresponsible ones such as the UN, whose Special Rapporteur, Francesca Albanese, absurdly equates Israeli settlements on the West Bank to genocide. I have no doubt that the accusation of genocide is in part motivated by anti-Semitism. The underlying sentiment is, ‘You Jews are always going on about the Holocaust, but you are just as bad as the Nazis’. How many civilians were killed by Coalition forces during counter- insurgency operations in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.  Probably hundreds of thousands. Have Britain and America been arraigned before the ICJ? Have Blair, Brown, Cameron, Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden been indicted by the ICC? No, only Israel and Netanyahu face trial. Why is that?Who seriously doubts that Hamas shields behind the civilian population? Do they fight pitched battles with the IDF? No, they fire from residential buildings and even from hospitals, which they use as military bases. Perhaps you remember the CCTV footage of hostages being bundled into the Al Shifa hospital on October 7. Or is that another falsehood?

Steven Rose ● 17d

The Dutch National Coordinator for Security and Counter-terrorism (NCTV) issued a document titled “Assessment of Threats from State Actors,” which points to efforts by Israel to manipulate Dutch public opinion and influence political decision-making through disinformation campaigns.The intelligence warning by NCTV, the principal Dutch agency responsible for the assessment of threats to national security, comes in the wake of violence and mayhem in Amsterdam in November 2024 involving supporters of the controversial Israeli football club Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.The fan base of Maccabi Tel Aviv is known to include ultra-far right groups. And prior to the violent confrontations between the Israeli fans and locals, Maccabi fans were filmed in Amsterdam pulling Palestinian flags from houses, vandalising property and raising chants like “death to Arabs.”One incident cited in the Dutch government report involves a document circulated last year by an Israeli ministry to Dutch journalists and politicians through unofficial channels.The report claimed the document contained unusual and unrequired personal details about Dutch citizens, following tensions in Amsterdam involving the supporters of football team Maccabi Tel Aviv.Following the violence in Amsterdam by Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters, the Palestinian Football Association issued a statement saying they were “gravely concerned” about the incident and condemned the anti-Palestinian racism and Islamophobia expressed by Israeli football fans.The NCTV also flagged concerns over mounting threats from both Israel and the U.S. towards the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague. These threats, it noted, could potentially disrupt the court’s work of administering justice.As a host country to several international legal institutions, the Netherlands was described as having a “special responsibility” to safeguard their operations in the face of such external pressures.Although not mentioned in the espionage section of this particular report, the NCTV has previously expressed concerns about Israeli spyware and surveillance tools.

Gerry Boyce ● 17d

Hello Steven,You are now being disingenuous.  I have lost count of the amount of times you have asked the question as to the meaning of genocide, hence my exasperation!By the way, which David Ainsworth were you referring to?  I ask before but you forgot to answer.I sent you this before but will repeat it to see if you understand it better this time.  According to the Oxford Dictionary:Genocide:  the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular NATION OR ETHNIC GROUP with the aim of destroying that nation or group.And I add, also from the Oxford Dictionary: Ethnic cleansing: the mass expulsion or killing of members of one ETHNIC OR RELIGIOUS GROUP in an area by those of another.Do you like the Israelis?  I do.  Do you like Jews?  I do.  Do you like the Palestinians? I do.  What I dislike enormously are Hamas, Benjamin Netanyahu and his governemnt as well as Daniela Weiss.Please bear in mind that Hamas may be Palestinians but not all Palestinians support Hamas. Please, if it is not too much of an effort, do read the article by Elie Barnabi, an Israeli historian and diplomat who is a former ambassador of Israel to France.  The article was published in the Belgium magazine "Regards".  It is in French but there is an option to read it in English.  https://cclj.be/la-strategie-du-fou/You also seem to have selective memory.  You say:  "there is no evidence that Israel plans to expel the Palestinians from the lands they now inhabit.  Really?  Does this ring any bells?  Trump and Netanyahu want to "relocate" Palestinians elsewhere so they can create the Riviera of the Middle East.Or Daniela Weiss trying to encourage Israelis to settle in the north of Gaza as it has such a beautiful coast.....  Hamas is beyond despicable but the excuse of Hamas shielding behind civilians is now wearing very thin indeed.  Do you think young children are part of Hamas? Also, it was kind of Israel to move Palestinians from pillar to post.  So why has IDF carried out airstrikes in Palestinian refugee camps in Gaza? Why have the Israelis not rescued or even attempted to rescue the remaining hostages? The Israelis do have the capacity to do so.You support the Israeli government?  By all means do so.  But you should not be blind to realities.

Ivonne Holliday ● 17d

On 14 October 2023, the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory warned against “a repeat of the 1948 Nakba, and the 1967 Naksa, yet on a larger scale” as Israel carries out “mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians under the fog of war”.The Palestinian people constitute a national group for the purposes of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (the Genocide Convention). The Palestinians of the Gaza Strip constitute a substantial proportion of the Palestinian nation, and are being targeted by Israel because they are Palestinian. The Palestinian population of Gaza appears to be presently subjected by the Israeli forces and authorities to widespread killing, bodily and mental harm, and unviable conditions of life – against a backdrop of Israeli statements which evidence signs of intent to physically destroy the population.Article II of the Genocide Convention provides that “genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:Killing members of the group;Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”All states are bound as a matter of law by the principle that genocide is a crime prohibited under international law. The International Court of Justice has affirmed that the prohibition of genocide is a peremptory norm of international law from which no derogation is allowed. The Convention provides that individuals who attempt genocide or who incite to genocide “shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals”.

Gerry Boyce ● 17d

Mr BoyceYou say of Mr Rose "You’re happy to engage in pompous word-play and endless whataboutery with the only aim of excusing the appalling barbarity that is taking place."Your resort to insult says more of you than him because Mr Rose is able to articulate clearly and rationally the reality of the situation.You can only shout slogans from the back of the playground.And as he points out, you also can only web-trawl for articles written by those antipathetic to Israel.What about some straight answers telling the rest of us what YOU really believe regarding the conflict ?1) Does Israel have the right to exist on the land it now governs ? Note the current UN situation on its recognition."As of June 2024, the State of Israel is recognized as a sovereign state by 164 of the other 192 member states of the United Nations. The State of Israel was formally established by the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949. It also maintains bilateral ties with all of the UNSC Permanent Five. 28 member states have either never recognized Israel or have withdrawn their recognition; others have severed diplomatic relations without explicitly withdrawing their recognition. Additionally, many non-recognizing countries have challenged Israel's existence—predominantly those in the Muslim world—due to significant animosity stemming from the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and the Arab–Israeli conflict."2) If you think it does NOT have the right to exist what do you think should be done to obliterate it ?3) Do you support HAMAS in its aims to obliterate the state of Israel and its Jewish citizens ?4) What constitutes in your mind the state of Palestine (which I believe should be recognised as such once Israel feels secure it will not be attacked by it) other than Gaza and the West Bank ?5) As Hamas ruling in Gaza and The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank are deadly enemies how do you imagine the governance of Palestine ?

John Hawkes ● 17d

Ivonne I am afraid I don’t understand your exasperation or why you felt the need to look up the meaning of the word ‘genocide’. Everyone knows that it means the deliberate extermination of a race or nation. Unfortunately the critics of Israel on the Forum and elsewhere have improperly extended its meaning to include ethnic cleansing or even just colonising a territory, as can be seen in the extract from the UN Special Rapporteur quoted by Gerry Boyce. This is an abuse of language deliberately designed to libel Israel, in effect accusing the Israelis of committing the same crime as the Jewish people suffered during the Second World War when six million were murdered in gas chambers. Gratuitous comparisons between the Israelis and the Nazis are considered anti-Semitic under the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance protocol, recognised by the UK and the EU. I don’t approve of the Israeli settlements on the West Bank. This kind of colonialism, which was widely practised by Britain and other European countries in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, is no longer acceptable. And ethic cleansing, whereby the indigenous population is expelled, is even worse. But there is no evidence that Israel plans to expel the Palestinians from the lands they now inhabit. And even if such a crime could be proved, it would still not amount to genocide, which is the worst crime known to mankind. There has undoubtedly been a tragic loss of life in Gaza, mainly because Hamas have chosen to shield behind the civilian population. I believe that the IDF have genuinely tried to reduce the number of civilians killed by giving warnings of impending attacks and moving people out of harm’s way, which is more than Coalition forces did in Iraq and Syria.  Clearly people have the right to criticise the way Israel has conducted its campaign. Many Israelis are critical of Netanyahu’s conduct of the war. But critics of Israel should refrain from hysterical accusations of genocide, for which there is no evidence.

Steven Rose ● 17d

I am beginning to wonder, Gerry, whether you are David Ainsworth in disguise, for your posts consist almost entirely of extended quotations from published sources. I suppose I should be grateful that you are actually addressing my request, namely to define genocide. Unfortunately you do so at one remove, by quoting somebody else.  Personally I think this runs counter to the spirit of the Forum, which ought to be a place where people exchange views rather than advertise their opinions or, even worse, other people’s opinions. It also makes it difficult to construct a counter-argument without writing an essay as long as the quoted source, which is rather boring for the diminishing number of people reading this thread.That said, I will try to address the points made in the passage you quoted:1) The Special Rapporteur according to your source has focused on the ‘genocidal intent’ of Israel, yet no evidence is produced of any statement by Netanyahu or his government or indeed any Israeli politician in which they advocate the extermination of the Palestinians, which is what genocide means. Oddly no mention is made of the clear genocidal intent of Hamas, an organisation whose Charter (1988) specifically calls for the extermination of the Jewish population of Israel. The justification given for this blood libel of Israel is that colonisation of Palestinian land and  ethnic cleansing amount to genocide. There are several things to say about this. Firstly, it is not clear what she means by Palestinian land. Is she referring to the State of Israel or the West Bank or Gaza? Secondly, no evidence is provided of any plan by the Israeli government to remove the Palestinian population from all the lands they presently inhabit. She provides no evidence because there is no evidence. As regards Israel, Palestinian Arabs, who constitute a fifth of the population, enjoy full rights of citizenship. Even on the West Bank, no Israeli politician has called for the expulsion of the Palestinian population of 3 million, which in any case would be impossible. Only in respect of Gaza have a few right wing politicians called for the expulsion of the Palestinians, but  this is not the policy of Netanyahu’s government. But thirdly, even if a charge of ethnic cleansing could be proved, which would be serious enough in itself,  this still would not amount to genocide. It is simply an abuse of language to confuse the two. The second paragraph focuses on the refusal of Israel to allow the Special Rapporteur and ICC investigators access to Gaza, which she believes constitutes obstruction of justice. I am not sure that Israel is legally obliged to grant access to a UN official and Israel, like America, China, Russia and  India, doesn’t recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC. In any case this has nothing to do with genocide.The third paragraph refers once again to the land of Palestine. What is this? Does it include the State of Israel? If so, it would signify that the Rapporteur is an anti-Zionist. Many people, including myself, equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism since Israel was created in 1948 by a vote at the UN as a homeland for the Jews, who had suffered an actual genocide during the Second World War. If the Rapporteur wishes to avoid a charge of anti-Semitism, she needs at the very least to clarify what she regards as Palestinian land. Finally she speaks of the need to punish genocide as if she had proved that it is taking place, when in fact there is nothing in this account to suggest that she has even established the existence of genocidal intent, let alone genocide.

Steven Rose ● 18d

In March 2024, the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, Francesca Albanese, concluded that there were reasonable grounds to believe that Israel had committed acts of genocide in Gaza.[1] In the present report, the Special Rapporteur expands the analysis of the post-7 October 2023 violence against Gaza, which has spread to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. She focuses on genocidal intent, contextualising the situation within a decades-long process of territorial expansion and ethnic cleansing aimed at liquidating the Palestinian presence in Palestine. She suggests that genocide should be seen as integral and instrumental to the aim of full Israeli colonization of Palestinian land while removing as many Palestinians as possible.The present report is based on legal research and analysis, interviews with victims and witnesses, including in Jordan and Egypt, open-source information and input from experts and civil-society organizations. The Special Rapporteur, still refused access to the occupied Palestinian territory, stresses that Israel has no authority to bar fact-finding mechanisms from the territory that it illegally occupies. The persistent denial of access to United Nations mechanisms and investigators of the International Criminal Court (ICC) may constitute obstruction of justice, in defiance of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) order that Israel allow international investigators to enter Gaza and take measures to ensure the preservation of evidence.[2]While the scale and nature of the ongoing Israeli assault against the Palestinians vary by area, the totality of the Israeli acts of destruction directed against the totality of the Palestinian people, with the aim of conquering the totality of the land of Palestine, is clearly identifiable. Patterns of violence against the group as a whole warrant the application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (Genocide Convention) in order to cease, prevent and punish genocide in the whole of the occupied Palestinian territory.

Gerry Boyce ● 18d

"US President Donald Trump has said Hamas "didn't really want to make a deal" on a new Gaza ceasefire and hostage release, after the US and Israel withdrew their negotiating teams from Qatar".BBC News.'US envoy Steve Witkoff said on Thursday night that the response by the Palestinian armed group to the latest proposal showed "a lack of desire".He added "alternative options" to bring home the hostages still held by Hamas would be considered - something Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu echoed.There was no immediate Hamas response to Trump's comments, but the group earlier expressed surprise about what it called Witkoff's "negative" remarks, and an official said the group had been told Israeli negotiators would return to Doha next week.All sides involved in the talks - including the mediators from the US, Qatar and Egypt - acknowledge that wide gaps remain on key issues, including Israeli troop withdrawals, aid distribution, and a permanent cessation of hostilities.In his statement announcing the withdrawal of the US team from Doha, Witkoff said: "While the mediators have made a great effort, Hamas does not appear to be co-ordinated or acting in good faith."We will now consider alternative options to bring the hostages home and try to create a more stable environment for the people of Gaza."It is a shame that Hamas has acted in this selfish way. We are resolute in seeking an end to this conflict and a permanent peace in Gaza."Netanyahu's office had earlier said in a statement that Israeli negotiators would leave Qatar for additional consultations "in light of the response conveyed by Hamas", but it did not give any more details.A senior Israeli official in Doha - speaking on the condition of anonymity - later briefed Israeli journalists that there was "no explosion, no collapse" in the talks, the Times of Israel reported.But the official did criticise what they called Hamas's "rejectionist and unfortunate approach", saying its latest response did "not allow progress without a shift" in the group's positions.On Friday afternoon, Netanyahu wrote on X: "Witkoff got it right. Hamas is the obstacle to a hostage release deal.""Together with our US allies, we are now considering alternative options to bring our hostages home, end Hamas's terror rule, and secure lasting peace for Israel and our region."At around the same time, Trump told reporters outside the White House: "It was too bad. Hamas didn't really want to make a deal. I think they want to die."He added: "Now we're down to the final hostages, and they know what happens after you get the final hostages. And basically because of that, they really didn't want to make a deal."There was no immediate response from Hamas, but the group said in a statement early on Friday that it was "surprised by the negative statements" from Witkoff on its position."The movement affirms its keenness to continue negotiations and engage in them in a manner that helps overcome obstacles and leads to a permanent ceasefire agreement," it added.A senior Hamas official later told the BBC that the mediators had informed the group that the negotiations had not collapsed.They said the mediators had also conveyed that the Israeli delegation was expected to return to Doha next week, though no specific date had been set.The two sides have been unable to reach agreement on a US proposal for a 60-day ceasefire that would see the staggered release of 10 living Israeli hostages by Hamas and the bodies of 18 other hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.Fifty hostages are still being held in Gaza, at least 20 of whom are believed to be alive.'The reason of course that Hamas dont want peace negotiations to end with the release of all Israeli hostages and corpses is that once that happens they have no bargaining chips.Not just about peace in the region but also regarding the security of Hamas' members and leaders.Once hostages are free, Mossad and the IDF go to work.....!

John Hawkes ● 18d

Mr BoyceA heartfelt plea from Ms Margolyes.But a bid for publicity from an aging thespian counts for no more than the comments of ex-footballer and fascism innocent Gary Lineker or 'never really funny in the first place' and now unknown comedienne Dawn French.Or even yours or mine.'She (French) apologised after receiving backlash for a Video she posted about the Israel-Gaza conflict.In the now-deleted Video (COWARD), French satirised those supporting Israel’s military campaign in Gaza, leading to criticism that she trivialised the Hamas attack on Israel on 7 October 2023.'French acknowledged that her satirical Video failed in its original intention and apologised for clumsily using a mocking tone.It was stated she has apologised and taken down a video she posted about the war in Gaza after facing backlash'.Apologised for what ?I bet she took the video down.Classic trick of the racist - post your dubious comment; get the publicity and support of those who support your views; apologise for being 'misunderstood' when the sh1t hits the funAlso her agent might not be receiving so many calls.'The popular (says who) actress and comedian said she apologised "unreservedly" after posting a video in a "mocking tone".In the original 40-second clip, the Vicar of Dibley star said: "Complicated, no, but nuanced. But bottom line is no."Then, using a different tone, she went on: "Yeah, but you know they did a bad thing to us, yeah but no."But we want that land... and we have history... No.Classic antisemitic tropes.All these avaricious Jews throughout history have ever really wanted is land, possessions and wealth.Secondly belittling the holocaust - 6,000,000 Jews murdered on an industrial scale."Those people aren't really even people, are they really? No."And of course the blood libel of how Jews despise every other racial group.Though their attempts to annihilate them as the Islamist groups declare they want to do to them, don't seem to have been very successful.'On Saturday afternoon, she issued an apology, saying that in an effort to convey "an important message" she had "clumsily used a mocking tone"."My intention was NEVER to mock, or dismiss, or diminish the horror of what happened on 7 October 2023," she posted on X and Instagram.She said her intention was to "point the finger of shame at the behaviour of the cruel leader on ALL sides of this atrocious war".Note the antisemitism covered up by feeble attempts at 'self-deprecating' humour.And of course there is no moral difference in her eyes between the actions of Israelis and Hamas.

John Hawkes ● 18d

Mr Boyce'Hamas committed a series of war crimes in the attacks it launched on 7 October, killing 1,200 people, mainly Israeli civilians. Hamas took 251 hostages, of which perhaps 20 who are still being held inside Gaza are believed to be alive.'Yet no condemnation from you.'And there is clear evidence that Israel has committed a series of war crimes since then.'As defined and agreed by which countries and international bodies ?'Israel's list includes the starvation of Gaza's civilians, the failure to protect them during military operations in which Israeli forces killed tens of thousands of innocents, and the wanton destruction of entire towns in a manner that is not proportionate to the military risk Israel faces.'Who has provided the figure of 'tens of thousands of innocents' ?True many Palestinians have been killed, but how many of them were true 'innocents' and how many Hamas terrorists ?'A joint statement, condemning Israel's actions, was signed on 21 July by foreign ministers from the UK, much of the European Union, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. They used strong words to describe civilian suffering in Gaza, and the failing and deadly aid distribution system run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) that Israel introduced to replace tried and trusted methods used by the UN and leading global relief groups'.Have you read this statement ?https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/foreign-secretary-statement-on-the-middle-east-21-july-2025It is actually quite a balanced and reasonable analysis under the circumstances, albeit with an anti-Israel bentPeople like you should follow Mr Lammy's example and stop continuingly criticizing and placing the blame for the suffering on Israel.He says -"I treasure the many connections between our peoplesAnd the horrors of October 7th must never be forgotten.But I firmly believe the Israeli government’s actions are doing untold damage to Israel’s standing in the world and undermining Israel’s long-term security.Netanyahu should listen to the Israeli people, 82 per cent of whom desperately want a ceasefire.And to the hostages’ families because they know it offers the best chance to bring their loved ones home.Those hostages may be hidden in cramped tunnels under the ruins of Gaza but we will not forget them or Hamas’s despicable actions and we will continue to demand their unconditional release".He also says "Hamas is contributing to the chaos and taking advantage of it."He concludes -"The war in Gaza must end now.There is no military solution.Negotiations will secure the hostages.Further bloodshed serves no purpose.Hamas and Israel must both commit to a ceasefire now.And the next ceasefire must be the last ceasefire".Do you think Hamas should and will commit to a ceasefire ?What of this do you disagree with ?Will you continue to attack Israel and defend Hamas ?

John Hawkes ● 18d

“Hello, I’m Miriam Margolyes, and I wanted to say something in support of the Jewish Council of Australia. I’m an Australian citizen. I’m 83 and I have never been so ashamed of Israel as I am at this moment. To me, it seems as if Hitler has won.He’s changed us Jews from being compassionate and caring and do unto others as you would have them do unto you into this vicious genocidal nationalist nation, pursuing and killing women and children.Of course, I condemn the Hamas action, of course I do. But what we are doing, Jewish people over in Israel, is shocking, embarrassing and wicked and I cannot understand why all Jewish people, particularly members of synagogues, do not want immediately to stop what is going on.And in the name of humanity, I call upon all Jews to shout, beg, scream for a ceasefire.It is not antisemitic to have a different opinion on the wartime actions now. We have to do, as my mother used to say, the right thing; the right thing is a ceasefire to stop the killing, certainly to beg and insist on the release of hostages. But there is an opinion about Israel’s actions, which it is not antisemitic to voice. What Israel is doing is wrong, it is wicked.And, if you want to say this, is very bad for Israel. Please call on your rabbis, on your communities, on all the people you know. Voice your disgust and detestation of the Israeli actions. Please. You are then doing the right thing and behaving in accordance to the Jewish tradition.“

Gerry Boyce ● 18d

“More than 1,000 Palestinians, the UN says, have been killed trying to get food from distribution points Israel set up in Gaza in May. A recently retired American Special Forces Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Aguilar was hired by the so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation as part of its armed security team that works alongside the Israeli military, the IDF, to secure the sites. Lieutenant Colonel Aguilar told the BBC that he resigned after, in May and June, he witnessed the IDF and some of his American colleagues killing civilians using live fire to control huge crowds of desperate, starving people.“I witnessed the Israeli Defense Forces shooting at the crowds of Palestinians. I witnessed the Israeli Defense Forces firing a main gun tank round into a crowd of people, destroying a car of civilians that were simply driving away from the site. I witnessed mortar rounds being fired at the crowds of people to keep them controlled on to the Marague corridor in the south.”“My professional opinion of how the sites were established was what I would describe as amateur, inexperienced, untrained, no idea of how to conduct operations of this magnitude. That would be my most benign assessment. In my most frank assessment, I would say that they're criminal.And I have fought ISIS, I have fought the Taliban. In my entire career, I have never witnessed the level of brutality and use of indiscriminate and unnecessary force against a civilian population, an unarmed, starving population. I've never witnessed that in all of the places I've been deployed to war until I was in Gaza at the hands of the IDF and US contractors.Israel and the management of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation insist that their forces have not targeted civilians. Lieutenant Colonel Aguilar's eyewitness testimony adds to the considerable and convincing weight of evidence that they have done so as a matter of routine.”

Gerry Boyce ● 19d

Hamas committed a series of war crimes in the attacks it launched on 7 October, killing 1,200 people, mainly Israeli civilians. Hamas took 251 hostages, of which perhaps 20 who are still being held inside Gaza are believed to be alive.And there is clear evidence that Israel has committed a series of war crimes since then.Israel's list includes the starvation of Gaza's civilians, the failure to protect them during military operations in which Israeli forces killed tens of thousands of innocents, and the wanton destruction of entire towns in a manner that is not proportionate to the military risk Israel faces.Israel is running out of friends. Allies who rallied around after the 7 October Hamas attacks have lost patience with Israel's conduct in Gaza.A joint statement, condemning Israel's actions, was signed on 21 July by foreign ministers from the UK, much of the European Union, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. They used strong words to describe civilian suffering in Gaza, and the failing and deadly aid distribution system run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) that Israel introduced to replace tried and trusted methods used by the UN and leading global relief groups."The suffering of civilians in Gaza has reached new depths," the statement, external said."The Israeli government's aid delivery model is dangerous, fuels instability and deprives Gazans of human dignity. We condemn the drip feeding of aid and the inhumane killing of civilians, including children, seeking to meet their most basic needs of water and food. It is horrifying that over 800 Palestinians have been killed while seeking aid.Israel's parliament, is on the brink of its summer recess, which will last until October. That means Benjamin Netanyahu will have a break from the threat of a vote of no confidence from the extremist nationalists in his coalition who oppose a ceasefire in Gaza. His reluctance to negotiate a truce is a result of their threats to quit his government. If Netanyahu lost power in an election, his day of reckoning for his 7 October mistakes - as well as the end of his long running corruption trial - would race towards him.

Gerry Boyce ● 19d

The Most Rev Stephen Cottrell, who is current head of the Church of England has stood with other Christian leaders in calling for a ceasefire, for the release of all hostages, and captives and for the rebuilding of Gaza.“With each passing day in Gaza, the violence, starvation and dehumanisation being inflicted on the civilian population by the Government of Israel becomes more depraved and unconscionable.“In the name of God, I cry out against this barbaric assault on human life and dignity. It is a stain on the conscience of the international community, and a flagrant breach of international humanitarian law.“The statement this week by the UK and 27 other states condemning the denial of aid, and the inhumane killing of civilians at aid posts, is an important – if long overdue – sign of growing international resolve to end this war.“But while the group stated their preparedness to take further action, there is no time to wait. Action must be taken now to stop this ongoing assault on Gaza, end settlement-building and settler violence in the West Bank, and secure negotiation for a lasting and just peace. “I echo the words of Pope Leo XIV and say clearly that this barbarism must stop.“We deplore every assault on the innocent. But as we said in May this year, this war is now one of aggression – it is a grave sin and it must stop.“Last week the Anglican Archbishop in Jerusalem, the Most Revd Hosam Naoum, spoke powerfully at the Church of England General Synod in York. I support Archbishop Hosam in calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire, for the release of all hostages and captives and for the rebuilding of Gaza.“I support him in rejecting any policy that would amount to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian population from Gaza. And in the name of Jesus Christ, I encourage dioceses and parishes to continue praying for our Palestinian Anglican sisters and brothers and all other Christian communities – and for security, freedom and dignity for Palestinians, Israelis and all the peoples of the region.”

Gerry Boyce ● 20d

Hi RichardThanks for your post. Among the critics of Israel on the Forum, you are the first person to have attempted to outline a way forward rather than post a litany of accusations against Israel on information supplied by the Hamas ‘Ministry of Health’.But let’s get a few things out of the way first.  Your statistic of 60 000 dead may be correct but it is likely that almost half of this number were Hamas militants, including some of the psychopaths who carried out the massacre of October 7.  Hamas do not at present constitute an existential threat to the State of Israel but they certainly constitute a threat to Israeli civilians living along the southern border, a thousand of whom were butchered on October 7. If a member of your family had been killed, I don’t think you would so easily downplay the threat posed by Hamas. And both Hamas and Hezbollah are armed by Iran, a nation of 90 million who are trying to obtain a nuclear weapon and who have openly called for the destruction of Israel.I regret to say that your statement that ‘the 7th October massacre was a very serious assault but it resulted less from Hamas’ military strength than unforgivable intelligence and a disgraceful lack of border security’ is an appalling example of victim shaming. You are in effect blaming the massacre on the military incompetence of the Israelis rather than on Hamas’ savagery. It’s a dreadful thing to say. I dare say you were just trying to make the point that the massacre was avoidable. I am not even sure that is true. No country, however well prepared, can entirely prevent attacks by a vicious and resourceful enemy.But let’s get to your outlined solution. You suggest that ‘Israel will just have to talk seriously to Hamas to reach some kind of agreement’. Well the Israelis are engaged in negotiations with Hamas in Quatar. The problem is that Hamas are only willing to return the hostages if Israel agrees to withdraw from Gaza, leaving Hamas in control of the territory once again. Do you think Israel should accept these terms? I don’t. And I am sure that, not just Netanyahu, but the overwhelming majority of Israelis would find Hamas’ terms unacceptable. Why would any nation agree to the continued presence on its border of a fanatical terrorist group who have vowed to repeat the massacre of civilians ‘again and again’?My solution is that Hamas should surrender, return the hostages and leave Gaza, which is more than some of the deserve, after which the Palestinians should be allowed to rebuild their lives under a moderate leadership. To be honest, I am not sure where that moderate leadership can be found right now. Mahmoud Abbas would probably agree to take over Gaza. He is prepared to coexist with Israel but he is old and deeply unpopular on the West Bank.

Steven Rose ● 20d

Mr CarterThe first thing I notice in this response is that you do not say what you think Hamas should do.Nothing about them stopping their threats to annihilate Israel.All you claim is that it does not have the means to carry it out.At the moment that is.'Admittedly, the 7th October massacre was a very serious assault but it resulted less from Hamas’ military strength than unforgivable lapses in intelligence and a disgraceful lack of border security (not, please note, that I am most definitely not blaming Israel in any way for the attack).'By 'very serious assault' do you mean invasion followed by murder, rape and abduction of civilians ??And like your fellow anti-Israel poster Ms Holliday you DO, however you might try to hide the fact, indulge in victim shaming.In fact the only time you get close to expressing indignation is when you use the term 'disgraceful' regarding Israel not being aware of the likelihood of its being attacked !I am sure Israel is not attacking Hamas on the basis of its racist and genocidal Charter, but on the fact that it wants its hostage held citizens back; and the corpses of those taken and murdered; and to destroy its military infrastructure so it won't be attacked again.If Hamas is no threat why is it so well armed ?And if it really wants peace why does it not comply with the above and declare an end to its anti-Israel hostility and negotiate ?It won't of course because fighting, killing, and Jew threatening are its raison d'etres.As I have said before, the bully boys in balaclavas would I am sure find building a thriving Gaza as part of a Palestine state alongside the West Bank somewhat tedious.What do you think Israel should ask of Hamas in any negotiation; would Hamas agree and what do you think Hamas want ? 'There will also be complaints and threats from the extremists in Israel’s coalition like Ben Gvir and that nasty little fascist Smotrich, but seriously, what is the alternative to talking'?Agreed, no alternative to talking but is a terrorist organisation to be trusted and what is in it for them ?Funny you you don't call Hamas fascist or its leaders (what's left of them).The only one worthy of your epithet is a Jew who probably has personal experience of fascism and has a right to express his anger and fear.More so than the faux progressives of West Putney.Still, thanks for being the first of you ilk to respond to my requests for direct answers to my questions on this issue.I assume you also speak on behalf of Ms Carter.

John Hawkes ● 20d

All right, I’ll try to take up your challenge.The first thing to do is to stop the killing; so far, counting deaths from starvation and unrecovered bodies, the toll must be well over 60,000 deaths and probably at least 3 times that in injuries. All of which has been perpetrated in 3 years and with what effect? Has Hamas been destroyed (the declared aim of the IDF)? Of course not, so how long will it go on before even Netanyahu realises it’s not working?The answer, however unpalatable, is that the Israeli government will have to talk properly to Hamas. The great barrier to that is the foolish and demonstrably false claim that Israel faces an existential threat from Hamas, based on that organisation’s charter. I accept, of course, that the aim is in their charter, and it’s an odious threat. But to justify the endless killing and maiming on the claim that it makes an existential threat to the existence of Israel confuses the aim with the capacity to carry it out. Let’s take a parallel (of course it’s not an entirely serious one): I loathe Elon Musk and would really like to destroy his organisation, and I could even declare that as my prime aim in life. But if I did so, would Musk quake in his boots? Of course not, so why do Israel and its supporters claim that Hamas presents such an existential threat? It has some thousands (precise number unknown) of guerrillas armed with guns, home-made rockets and ill intentions, whereas Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world, with hundreds of warplanes, thousands of armoured vehicles and massive personnel. The very idea is wholly mistaken. Admittedly, the 7th October massacre was a very serious assault but it resulted less from Hamas’ military strength than unforgivable lapses in intelligence and a disgraceful lack of border security (not, please note, that I am most definitely not blaming Israel in any way for the attack).So, as I said, however distasteful it will be, Israel will just have to talk seriously to Hamas to reach some kind of agreement – whist, of course, defending itself against repeat attacks like that of 7th October. When – as now – continued killing gets you nowhere, talking is the only possible solution. Of course it won’t be easy, to put it very mildly, but endless deaths aren’t working and it’s time for a rethink. Details of the talks would have to be worked out (as would what would happen to the devastated area that is Gaza) and I certainly don’t make light of that. There will also be complaints and threats from the extremists in Israel’s coalition like Ben Gvir and that nasty little fascist Smotrich, but seriously, what is the alternative to talking?

Richard Carter ● 20d

UNICEF's spokesperson in Gaza Rosalia Bollen said Gaza "is really one of the most frustrating places on Earth to be working as a humanitarian due to the constant bombardment and displacement orders.”"Right now there's less than 13% of the territory that is not under displacement order or that hasn't been designated as a military zone, that affects the population, but it also affects our ability to move around and to operate and it means that the population is constantly on the move."So the communities that we're trying to help, that we're trying to follow, they keep moving and that means that our services have to move to".She said that UN agencies are in constant contact with the Israeli Defence Forces to ensure that agency staff can move around to ensure that our premises are deconflicted.She said an attack on a UN warehouse earlier this week gravely undermines humanitarian operations and their ability to bring medicines in."So this is this is very bad news for healthcare in Gaza, which was already really on the brink. Right now what we need is more access, more supplies, which are ready outside of Gaza."The solution is there."The war between Israel and Hamas has been raging for nearly two years since Hamas killed some 1,200 Israelis and took 251 hostages from southern Israel on 7 October 2023, in the deadliest attack in Israel's history.Israel has since killed nearly 60,000 Palestinians in Gaza, reduced most of the territory to ruins and forced nearly the entire population to flee their homes multiple times.

Gerry Boyce ● 20d