Forum Topic

Glastonbury ~ Mr Vylan😡

Will he be arrested and charged and jailed for inciting violence like Lucy Connolly? Or will the Two-TierKeir justice system kick in? Rupert Lowe on FB this morning:“I heard you want your country back. Ha. Shut the f*** up” angrily yells Vylan, fresh from calling for “death to the IDF”, to a chanting crowd of white middle-class British liberals excitedly waving their foreign flags. All rather depressing, isn’t it?I note the intense border security at Glastonbury, which far outstrips that of Dover’s. Build bridges, not walls, they cry - apart from around their own filthy little sanctuary.How so very progressive of them, flying their Palestinian flags - they must all feel so very proud of themselves. Sipping their £8 iced lattes, posting on tiktok from the newest iphone. Really revolutionary stuff.A fatal blow struck against the capitalist system. Well done, everyone.All broadcast live on the BBC, our ‘national’ broadcaster. Fantastic work from them, as usual.None of this is Britain. Real Britain. Actual Britain. Decent Britain.Not the Britain built by generations of hardworking, patriotic British men and women.Who quite frankly, have had enough. I know I have.We will all be closely watching, as Lucy Connolly rots in jail, what action the police will take against this revolting man - the precedent has been set.So, yes Mr Vylan. You heard correctly, we do want our country back.But no. We will definitely not "shut the fuck up".Learn how to sing, take a shower and sod off.Watch the cretinous half-wit here:https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1APMABcqjF/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Sue Hammond ● 24d136 Comments

Mr Ainsworth, the  incident at Brize Norton was not merely flinging some red paint around. Perhaps you should read our MP's detailed letter as to why she voted with the Government to proscribe Palestine Action: 'I fully recognise the strength of feeling about the situation in Palestine and the urgent need for peaceful, lawful advocacy. I spent 20 years organising peaceful and protests on many issues and value the right to peaceful, non-violent direct action very highly. Many campaigns were only won because a group of people were prepared to go further than others in their tactics. I fully respect the right to protest. But there is a limit to this.When I first heard about this proposal I was concerned and have researched it, spoken with Ministers, and read the objections from several organisations. I would not support it if it was not justified and I did not trust the threat assessment. As a result, when the Government brought in the motion to proscribe organisations in Parliament on 2nd July, I voted for it.Palestine Action Campaign’s actions have intentionally put them into a very different category. I have conducted many trainings for protesters on the use of non-violent actions and I know that Palestine Action Campaign deliberately chose these tactics.They have decided to repeatedly use unlawful tactics, including breaking into a military base, RAF Brize Norton, on Friday 20 June and causing damage of £30 million. It has been dismissed as merely throwing red paint, but was in fact a coordinated act of sabotage involving crowbars and deliberate damage to military aircraft.The Home Office has assessed that the group’s activities have become more aggressive since 2024, with members increasingly prepared to use violence to achieve their aims.This is targeted specifically at Palestine Action Campaign’s methods - not at those campaigning for Palestinian rights through peaceful and legal means. The right to protest and speak out on international issues must always be protected, but it’s not without boundaries.This decision has not been taken lightly and only against these three groups. The Home Office has judged that these groups now meet the legal threshold for proscription based on their recent actions.This is the statement from the Home Office:‘National security is the first duty of any Government. In a democracy, the public must be safe, our critical infrastructure must be protected, and no one should face intimidation for expressing their views. The UK has a proud tradition of peaceful protest and free speech.Our children learn about the leaders of protest movements of the past, who fought against injustice, against poverty, and against war.But we also have strong laws for when the actions of organisations cross the line into threatening national security or committing acts of violence against people. That is why this week, the Government will add three more organisations to the list of groups proscribed in our country: the Maniacs Murder Cult, Palestine Action and The Russian Imperial Movement.These are very different groups, which we are banning for different reasons—but each meets the legal threshold that has applied for a quarter of a century under the Terrorism Act – and based on a robust statutory process with strong security advice, we are acting now to protect national security and keep our country safe.The Maniacs Murder Cult and Russian Imperial Movement are Extreme Right-Wing Terrorist organisations that spread hate: the first seeking to inspire acts of terror and violence by its global network of online followers; the latter enabling terror in Europe, and committing acts of Wagner Group-style violence in Ukraine. Neither should be allowed to operate with impunity.In the case of Palestine Action, the group has conducted a series of acts of violence, serious damage and intimidation – affecting national security and public safety here in the UK. In one case in Glasgow the group damaged submarine parts, staff were subjected to violence, had smoke bombs and pyrotechnics thrown and them, and fled for their own safety.Most recently, Palestine Action have boasted about attacking two military planes at the Brize Norton airbase. And only last month, they claimed responsibility for an attack on a Jewish owned business in north London where the glass front of the building was smashed and the building and floor defaced with red paint.Let's be clear: the proscription of Palestine Action does not target or prevent peaceful protest in support of Palestinians, and the egregious criminal activity of this particular group in recent years must not be confused or conflated with the legitimate campaign for Palestinian rights which has existed in this country for many decades or the deep distress felt by many across the country at what is happening in Gaza or the West Bank.Lawful marches and protests have long taken place in support of Palestinians, just as on many other issues, and will continue to do so with people free to express their views or join countless different campaigning and protest groups across the country – part of our long tradition of peaceful protest.Instead this is about violent action in the UK that crosses a line and threatens national security. The right to protest doesn’t include causing millions of pounds of damage to security infrastructure, businesses, academic or government institutions, committing violence against individuals or seeking to scare or intimidate the public.National security transcends political beliefs. It is a shared responsibility to protect the freedoms and safety of the British people. Our values and freedoms must be defended and we cannot stand for dangerous activity that puts our security at risk. The Government will continue to act to prevent terrorist activity and threats to our national security. The future of our democracy demands nothing less.’

Lucille Grant ● 18d

"Who is being antisemitic here?To claim ‘death to the IDF’ is antisemitic is itself antisemitic according to at least two of the examples of antisemitism provided in the IHRA working definition of antisemitism. This states antisemitism includes:“Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.”“Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.”Bob Vylan has never suggested that Jews as a people are responsible for the wrongdoing of the IDF or that Jews are collectively responsible for the actions of the state of Israel.  If he had said death to Jews or to Israelis then a line would have been crossed. He did not.Many Jewish people outside Israel say the IDF in no way represents Jewish people as it shoots hundreds who queue for food at its military controlled food distribution sites and its bombings are killing tens of thousands of children. A minority of Jewish people inside Israel also oppose what the IDF is doing.  Jewish people opposed to the genocide vehemently reject making them in anyway responsible for what the IDF is doing in Gaza and the West Bank.  They say, Not in Our Name.All through its history, the Israeli state has presented itself as synonymous with Jewish religion, society and culture. Consequently any criticism of what is does is automatically defined as antisemitic. Just because nearly all members of the IDF are of the Jewish faith does not make it a Jewish entity. Most US troops probably identify with Christian religion and culture but the mass opposition to their actions across the world from Vietnam to Iraq never, ever defined it as Christian.  When governments and the media endorsed calls to destroy ISIS nobody claimed that it was Islamophobic just because ISIS members are nearly always Islamic believers.Indeed in Bob Vylan’s statement following the furore they forcibly make this point:“We are not for the death of Jews, Arabs, or any other race or group of people,” the duo wrote in a post on Instagram on Tuesday. “We are for the dismantling of a violent military machine — a machine whose own soldiers were told to use ‘unnecessary lethal force’ against innocent civilians waiting for aid. A machine that has destroyed much of Gaza.”Vylan certainly has good grounds to sue the Mail and others who are accusing him of antisemitism.""John Betjeman in his post war poem called for Slough to be bombed because he thought it was destroying what he treasured as some sort of British ideal. Bob Dylan in his Masters of War song celebrates the death of the war mongersAnd I hope that you dieAnd your death will come soonI’ll follow your casketBy the pale afternoonAnd I’ll watch while you’re loweredDown to your deathbedAnd I’ll stand over your grave‘Til I’m sure that you’re deadI don’t remember anyone calling for Dylan to be prosecuted for hate speech.""In 2003, Josh Richards attempted to set fire to an aircraft at a base belonging to the US Air Force. The lawyer who defended him in court insisted that his action was legitimate, needed to stop a war of aggression against Iraq. He did not limit himself to saying that Richards was no terrorist; he went further – insisted that his client was not any kind of criminal.  Keir Starmer was that lawyer. Women peace protesters outside Greenham Common, locked onto the US base’s gates, and climbed the missile silos. Even the then Prime Minster Margaret Thatcher never tried to call them terrorists." "The condemnation of this spraying of red paint on to planes as expressed by the home secretary, Yvette Cooper, does not appear to be matched by any equivalent condemnation by her of red blood sprayed on to the tented walls of Gaza."https://anticapitalistresistance.org/death-to-hypocrisy/

David Ainsworth ● 18d

You are quite entitled, Richard, to stop posting on this issue if you are weary of arguing. But in that case the right thing would be either not to reply or to say ‘I see no point in continuing the discussion’ and signing off. What is not quite acceptable is making your point and then  saying that the discussion is closed. That sounds suspiciously like trying to have the last word, no?I don’t think ‘Death to the IDF’ is anti-Semitic but it is an incitement to violence against the citizens of a friendly country. ‘Death to the Russian Armed Forces’ would be an incitement to violence against the citizens of an unfriendly country.  ‘Death to the IRA’ would be an incitement to vigilante violence against the members of a nasty terrorist organisation. To pretend that the target of the violence in all these cases would be organisations rather than people is absurdly disingenuous. I don’t approve of what Vylan said and I would not approve of hate speech against Russian soldiers or IRA terrorists either, much as I would like to see them defeated.What possible meaning can ‘From the River to the Sea’ have, given that the sea in question is the Mediterranean, other than the dismemberment of the State of Israel. This is how the phrase is used by the enemies of Israel.Hafez Al-Assad (1966): ‘We shall only accept war and the restoration of the usurped land … to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.’Hamas (2017): ‘Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine from the river to the sea.’

Steven Rose ● 21d

Mr CarterThe only genocide ("the deliberate and systematic killing or persecution of a large number of people from a particular national or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group") that has taken place in recent times in the region was the pogrom that occurred in October 2023.Then Hamas, in attempting to fulfil its Charter pledge of annihilating Israel and the Jews invaded Israel from Gaza.1) Why does one get the impression that this was an incident you would like the rest of us to forget ?2) Why do you go out of your way to find reason to accuse Israel all manner of atrocities as it takes measures to ensure Hamas and the Palestinians can't do this again ?3) What do you think of the comment by the UK Chief Rabbi ?"UK’s chief rabbi says Bob Vylan Glastonbury chant was ‘vile Jew-hatred’"'Ephraim Mirvis condemns BBC’s live broadcast of the performance and says it is ‘a time of national shame’'.https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/jul/01/uk-chief-rabbi-ephraim-mirvis-bob-vylan-glastonbury-chant 4) What is the basis for your aberrance of Israel such that it is the only country you call out for its political and military activities. Never any of the Islamic faith ? 5) Any comments on this piece from the GUARDIAN ?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/29/medical-staff-struggle-gangs-fight-aid-supplies-gaza?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other"‘Post-apocalyptic’: medical staff struggle as gangs fight over aid supplies in Gaza"'Militants, clans, Hamas and criminal gangs bring violence and anarchy as they vie for power amid Israeli strikes'What a grand display of national and political unity !Some do think Vylan (I bet you have all his vinyls) is antisemitic even if you do not.On the other hand after reading your posts it would be reassuring to us if you disclaim any such views.

John Hawkes ● 22d

Glastonbury Festival has condemned (c)rap duo Bob Vylan for using “appalling” anti-Semitic chants aimed at the Israeli Defense Forces.The group led thousands of revellers waving Palestine flags in calls for death to the IDF in a performance broadcast live by the BBC.In a statement on Sunday morning, organisers said that the chants by the group “very much crossed the line”.A spokesman said: “Their chants very much crossed a line and we are urgently reminding everyone involved in the production of the festival that there is no place at Glastonbury for antisemitism, hate speech or incitement to violence.”The festival organisers said they stood against “all forms of war and terrorism”.“We will always believe in – and actively campaign for – hope, unity, peace and love”, they added.The festival organisers said they stood against “all forms of war and terrorism”.“We will always believe in – and actively campaign for – hope, unity, peace and love”, they added.It comes as Wes Streeting told Israel to “get its own house in order” after its embassy criticised “death to the IDF” chants heard at Glastonbury Festival.The Israeli embassy said it was “deeply disturbed by the inflammatory and hateful rhetoric” led by (c)rap duo Bob Vylan on stage on Saturday.The group led thousands of revellers waving Palestine flags in calls for death to the Israeli Defense Forces in a performance broadcast live by the BBC.Mr Streeting, the Health Secretary, condemned the performance as “appalling” but said on Sunday morning that Israel should look at its own conduct.He told Sky News: “I’d also say to the Israeli embassy, get your own house in order in terms of the conduct of your own citizens and the settlers in the West Bank.”So, you know, I think there’s a serious point there by the Israeli embassy I take seriously. I wish they’d take the violence of their own citizens towards Palestinians more seriously.”Note to Streeting ~ stop criticising Israel and concentrate on getting your own (NHS) house in order. Shame on the BBC for allowing the live broadcast to continue. 

Sue Hammond ● 24d