Forum Topic

Private school pupils numbers drop by 11,000

There were 11,000 fewer pupils at private schools in England this January compared to the same time last year, according to the latest school census data....."The government had previously predicted that around 3,000 private school pupils would need to be absorbed into the state system this academic year, with state school places needed for around 37,000 private school pupils over the coming years."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2lk2p7wpr4o

Ivonne Holliday ● 48d60 Comments

There seems to have been an attempt to only teach in one way when everyone is different and multi-sensory teaching is so important to cover all learning types.  The prisons are full of people who have been found to be dyslexic.  Dyslexia has nothing to do with intelligence as there are plenty of dyslexics who have been outstanding in various areas.  Multi-sensory teaching helps to consolidate learning and to enthuse more children in various aspects of subjects so widening their learning.

Philippa Bond ● 37d

It would not surprise me if Labour were to propose putting VAT on private health care. I am sure that any such move would be applauded by the left wing of the party who regard seeing a doctor privately as queue jumping. In Australia, in contrast, there is apparently a different attitude.There wealthy people are expected to pay for  health care through insurance schemes. If you use the state system when you can afford to pay, it is regarded as cadging.

Steven Rose ● 37d

Ms Bond'Wouldn't it be much better to make sure that ALL children got a better education?'Are you saying that state education is not good enough ?As someone who benefited from it as did my children and as do my grandchildren I think that even now, under the Gove demands of it having to work to a more learning and intellectual bias, I think it is. All children are offered the same opportunity to thrive in the state system.In the end though it is parental support for schooling  and their own children's participation (or lack of it) that will make a key difference as to how much benefit children will gain from it.

John Hawkes ● 37d

Just as a matter of interest do you think the same about private health treatment ? Precisely the same tweaks could be made to the VAT legislation  to charge VAT on the currently exempt provision of private healthcare.Why do we not charge VAT on university fees? The changes made to the VAT law to facilitate the VAT charge on private school education does now seem to have created an anomaly in the legislation.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 37d

Why would that be right?  Wouldn't it be much better to make sure that ALL children got a better education?  They do have a right to education and that would increase the level of education right across the board instead of increasing the snobbery and division in society that we are seeing now with the huge differences between haves and have-nots and the problems that is causing in society.

Philippa Bond ● 38d

Ms Bond'Many parents chose private schools when the numbers in classes in the state sector increased and there were no SENCOs, not enough Teaching Assistants and not enough if any communication between schools and parents.'Were they not right to put the interests of THEIR children, as they saw them, first and at their own expense added to the taxes they paid towards funding state education ?Would you not have done so if in similar circumstances ?

John Hawkes ● 38d

All children with special needs should be getting the best start possible.  Many parents chose private schools when the numbers in classes in the state sector increased and there were no SENCOs, not enough Teaching Assistants and not enough if any communication between schools and parents.

Philippa Bond ● 38d

The High Court have rejected legal challenges against the imposition of VAT on private schools. The judges admitted that the tax may discriminate against children with special needs for whom there is inadequate provision in the state sector, but refused to exempt  such children from VAT, arguing that it would be unfair on the children with special needs in the state sector.In my opinion this judgment is deeply flawed. In fact it makes no sense. How can exempting children with special needs in private schools be unfair on children with special needs in the state sector who don’t have to pay the tax? I hope the Appeal Court or the Supreme Court reverses the ruling.In any case the Government are still in trouble. Parents who have been forced to withdraw their children with special needs from private schools will now sue local authorities to obtain adequate provision in the state sector. A previous court ruling states that in certain circumstances the local authority should also provide taxis. It is going to cost the state a fortune.

Steven Rose ● 39d

Ms Bond'A lot of schools as well as residents and shops have been finding the cost of heating and cooling their homes very expensive - but that obviously does not fit in with your political prejudices'.Oh you are quite wrong.I am very concerned with the cost of heating.Which is why I am so much against the policies of the Labour Party in the hands of Ed Miliband, that will restrict the extraction of oil and gas currently used for heating, and increase levies on the companies in the industry, to  concentrate on 'renewable' wind generated supplies which I understand the grid is not yet able to cope with.However I look forward to his promise that "Energy bills in Britain will be cut by £300 on average by 2030, pledges Net Zero Secretary Ed Miliband" - The Standard.Does that date fall within the current Parliament such that Labour can use the result of the pledge in the next election ?

John Hawkes ● 39d

I remember in the past smokers and heavily overweight people being challenged by doctors over the increased risks and faster and better outcomes and recovery expected from operations on those in better health.  The same with alcohol and other drug addiction.  But children being denied care because of the school they attend - are you sure this is the real reason - or is it just a means of getting publicity?  (The restrictions on operations for others with the huge waiting lists has definitely created a greater number of disabled people by making it harder and harder for them  to carry on working.)

Philippa Bond ● 39d

https://london-tv.co.uk/barratt-london-announce-industry-leading-sustainable-lo-e-homes-and-largest-scale-passivhaus-project-in-the-country/At last the changes that are needed in housing are hopefully going to become more mainstream and talked about.  It isn't just graded listed buildings that need (and can be with care) updated to deal with the changing conditions we are living through.  Buildings from a well known big developer are now being advertised as low energy.  Energy Performance Certificates are becoming more important.

Philippa Bond ● 39d

Shocking story.I shall have to watch BlackBeltBarristers take on the case tomorrow:https://www.youtube.com/@BlackBeltBarrister/featured

Ed Robinson ● 40d

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Martine.  It is an absolute disgrace.The NHS has seven guiding principles.  The first one clearly states:The NHS provides a comprehensive service, available to all

Ivonne Holliday ● 40d

I couldn’t believe what I was reading in the news about this.  These are children we are talking about and that they should be denied NHS care, because of where they go to school, is a disgrace.  

Martine Guy ● 40d

Whatever you think of the subject matter we are discussing I have to agree that it seems insane for someone to be denied NHS care because of where they went to school.

Michael Brigo ● 40d

Mr Hawkes  You need to look at a bigger picture.  Lots of people move home so that they can send their children to different schools - a lot of those are out of London grammar schools or comprehensives.  Many left during or just after the pandemic when they had the time to stop and reconsider their living arrangements and the lack of green space in London.There are lots of oil and gas companies and trusts created by that sort of wealth and they don't just have to be British.  You seem to be deliberately misconstruing what I said about Grenfell and the other fires and it really is not funny to introduce the price of fish when so many buildings still need remediating and there are people having to pay 24 hr fire security.A lot of schools as well as residents and shops have been finding the cost of heating and cooling their homes very expensive - but that obviously does not fit in with your political prejudices.

Philippa Bond ● 40d

"The private school pupils refused NHS care show we're becoming a People's Republic by stealth - ruled by blank-eyed bureaucrats".MailOnline 12 June 2025If these incidents had featured black, gay or disabled children then they would have represented a criminal offence.But this example of discrimination by the NHS (in nearby Kingston I believe) purely because of someone's income and how they choose to spend it is deemed perfectly acceptable."Last weekend The Mail on Sunday reported a deeply disturbing fact. An NHS bureaucrat had refused therapy to a young boy, saying, ‘We are unable to see this child as we do not provide a service to school-age children who attend an independent school. We are only commissioned to provide a service to the mainstream schools.’The refusal came after the eight-year-old’s mother was asked to fill in a form which inquired innocently: ‘Where does your child go to school?’ She was in little doubt she had come up against hard dogma, remarking, ‘It feels like an ideological battle is going on.’This is not a unique case. The mother of an autistic girl in Somerset recently complained that her daughter had been denied access to NHS mental health services, and was told, icily, ‘If you can afford the school fees, you should pay privately. If you had kept your child at the local authority primary school, she would have been supported.’Last month it emerged that young cancer patients from private schools had to pay £115 an hour for tutoring at an Edinburgh hospital, while it is provided free to state school pupils by the Labour-run city council.Private school parents were once again sniffily told they had ‘effectively opted out of state funded education and supports’.Absolutely appalling but the NHS staff will of course get off scot-free.These people discriminated against had paid twice for the NHS and state education.Just like communist Russia.

John Hawkes ● 40d

Ms Bond'I don't know why you are sure that it is the VAT that is causing people to pull their children out of private schools - or is it just not register their children for private schools.  I think it is much more likely that that is the last straw in a number of price rises and easy to complain about.Who is going to complain about the fact that they have themselves failed to update their homes to meet the greater insulation requirements needed to reduce their fuel costs in keeping their homes cool in hotter weather and warm in colder weather?  Trying to live in so many old fashioned museum piece homes when there are changes that can be made and are being made elsewhere in listed buildings to improve living conditions with the increase in weather extremes is much more expensive.  It is such a shame that the previous government spent so much time indulging their big developer friends and Big Oil climate change deniers instead of getting on and finding and sharing acceptable solutions.  There are still many high rises that need altering after the revelations of Grenfell and other fires.  Many people can't sell in order to move to bigger homes as they need them and also have huge remediation costs to pay'.Thanks for pointing out that Shell and BP caused the Grenfell tragedy.What has all this to do with the price of fish ?Everyone knows that Labour imposed VAT, a sales tax, on fee charging education, as an act of class envy and an attempt to win extreme left-wing votes.Doubtless it went down very well in big city suburban areas where these people have moved to to get into the catchment area of 'a good school'. Not that it will make much difference in the 'Red Wall' constituencies, where I have no doubt that aspirational parents who can't afford to, would love to send their children to a school which, in order to attract 'customers' has to maintain a regime of real learning and good behaviour.  

John Hawkes ● 40d

Philippa, are you feeling OK?Of course, school fees increase every year but add an additional 20% is no joke.  Why tax education?What makes you think that everybody that sends their child/ren to private schools lives in Grade I or II buildings?  Or are you trying to say that the VAT imposed on private school fees are going to be used to update museum properties?????  Hmmm, no - that is really nonsense to the extreme!

Ivonne Holliday ● 40d

I don't know why you are sure that it is the VAT that is causing people to pull their children out of private schools - or is it just not register their children for private schools.  I think it is much more likely that that is the last straw in a number of price rises and easy to complain about.Who is going to complain about the fact that they have themselves failed to update their homes to meet the greater insulation requirements needed to reduce their fuel costs in keeping their homes cool in hotter weather and warm in colder weather?  Trying to live in so many old fashioned museum piece homes when there are changes that can be made and are being made elsewhere in listed buildings to improve living conditions with the increase in weather extremes is much more expensive.  It is such a shame that the previous government spent so much time indulging their big developer friends and Big Oil climate change deniers instead of getting on and finding and sharing acceptable solutions.  There are still many high rises that need altering after the revelations of Grenfell and other fires.  Many people can't sell in order to move to bigger homes as they need them and also have huge remediation costs to pay. 

Philippa Bond ● 40d

I completely agree with Ed. Like abolishing the grammar school system, all the politics of envy achieves is to make it more difficult for working class bright children.  The idea that middle class parents will send their children to failing comps is hopelessly naïve.  They will focus on the best performing schools in the best areas, making it more difficult for the poorer families to go there. Social engineering rarely works as indeed, assuming this isn't intended which I'm not altogether sure about.

John Geoffries ● 40d

Interesting points Peter.However it does assume that the State sector does not apply selection and that all state schools are equal.Sadly they are not. Some state schools select on ability or other criteria.Time will tell but it is unlikely that public school parents will switch to the underperforming local comprehensive, more likely it will be the top state funded schools that are selective.

Ed Robinson ● 41d

While I'd take the point that as a general principle education shouldn't be taxed and particularly education for special educational needs, there are some good reasons for the addition of VAT.Private schools fees have been rising at well above the rate of inflation partly due to the increased ownership in the sector by private equity companies. A 20% VAT increase doesn't necessarily translate into a 20% fee rise because some of the tax is offsettable against supplies so the fee increases resulting may not be that much more than parents have been experiencing for the last few years.Falling numbers at private schools also mirrors demographic dip in the number of school aged children. In many cases the extra cost to the state will be minimal because children transferring into the state sector will be filling classrooms that might otherwise be empty.The addition of children from aspirant and more educated parents who will be insisting on higher standards will also have a broader benefit.

Peter Higgins ● 41d

Mr RoseYet another of your reasoned and lucid responses which will carry absolutely no weight with the Labour class warriors of Putney that frequent this Forum nor probably our local MP.

John Hawkes ● 45d

"Two private schools close in wake of Labour’s VAT raidParents forced to find alternatives for children after 20pc tax jump makes schools financially unviable"https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/two-private-schools-close-in-wake-of-vat-raid/

Ed Robinson ● 45d

Where private schools close due to VAT, NI plus other increases not only is no VAT collected but with the school gone there is also no income tax/NI collected plus supporting businesses are also impacted.But at least some extremist are happy!

Ed Robinson ● 46d

Of course it was!  As the withdrawal of the WFA was included in their manifesto too!!!  Hmmmmmm....  I do not think so!

Ivonne Holliday ● 46d

Given that the manifesto is not a reliable guide to Labour Party policy, perhaps it would be better to judge the policy of imposing VAT on private schools on its merits without reference to the manifesto.1. It is in the public interest that children, whether from rich or poor families, should be educated. So it makes no sense to tax education. In the same way it is in the public interest that everyone, rich or poor, should stay healthy, which is why private health care is not taxed.2.  Parents who educate their children privately pay income tax to support state education and now have to pay VAT in addition to school fees even though they have saved the state money by freeing up a place in the state sector. How can it be fair to tax them twice?3. Thousands of children with special needs are educated in independent schools be cause of the lack of provision in the state sector. If their parents cannot afford an increase of 20% in fees, what is going to happen to them?4. The assumption behind the tax is that the independent schools and the parents will simply absorb the extra cost. But inevitably some parents will be unable to afford the increase in fees and will be forced to withdraw their children and send them into the state sector. This in turn will impose an additional burden on local authorities, reducing the amount of money raised.

Steven Rose ● 46d

There's plenty I don't agree with, that's why I didn't vote for them.

Michael Brigo ● 46d

So, Michael,if it's in the manifesto and is implemented (eg VAT on private schools), that's fine; if it's in the manifesto but is not implemented (eg no tax increases), that's fine; if it's not in the manifesto but is implemented anyway (eg withdrawal of WFA), that's fine too. Is there any aspect of Labour's record you disagree with?

Steven Rose ● 46d

But interesting that Labour pulled off an election gain in Hamilton at a bye election,  so perhaps voters still see them as a least worst option after a decade of Conservatism, who did very badly. (Perhaps they need to look at their leadership again?)

Michael Ixer ● 46d

It is very much on subject Michael B.The manifesto suggested that there would be more Money going to schools due to VAT on private education.However it didn't say that they would deduct even more money from schools via a NI increase.With the exception of the TV licence (even some of that gets hived off to the home office) tax raised is not ring fenced.A dodgy manifesto that obviously fooled some people.

Ed Robinson ● 46d

Manifesto pledge. Suck it up buttercup.

Michael Brigo ● 46d

Ms Carter'But grammar schools were and are state schools!'True and probably were the greatest driver of social mobility certainly in my lifetime.They gave children a step up based upon, to put it simplistically, 'intelligence' and a willingness to use it.They also gave access to a wide range of topics and academic subjects that many of them (us) would otherwise not have had.They were also at the start of a funnelling process that lead on to the country's best universities; elitist yes but in the best meaning of the term. Now we have the Tik-Tok generation and university courses in Surf Science and Technology and Stand-Up Comedy !

John Hawkes ● 46d

'There were 11,000 fewer pupils at private schools in England this January compared to the same time last year, according to the latest school census data'.Levying VAT on private schools is of course just a symptom of class envy by the Labour Party.It also makes the UK one of the very few countries that levies a sales tax on education.The Government boasts that, according to the Standard -"Sir Keir Starmer’s first Cabinet is the most diverse on record in terms of education background, analysis has shown.The majority of the Prime Minister’s top team – 23 Cabinet ministers, or 92% of the total – attended comprehensive schools, according to research by social mobility charity the Sutton Trust'.But as it seems most of the Cabinet went to the same type of school, it shows the Sutton Trust does not understand the meaning of diversity.As well, attempting for a perceived political advantage, ("I cant afford it so why should you have it") to hamper the right of a parent to pay for whatever education for their child they can afford and think suitable, the Labour Government's Soviet-style attitude is of course a restriction on free choice.And what such an attitude will never overcome is the fact that whatever school a child goes to, fee-charging or state, the biggest influence on how well a child performs and what they achieve will be the active support and guidance they get from their parents.

John Hawkes ● 46d

You can deflect away from the subject as much as you like, the fact is that it was in the manifesto and people voted for it.

Michael Brigo ● 46d

"and a manifesto pledge they won an election on."You mean the one that they said they wouldn't increase taxes on working people?But increased NI and gave an unfunded pay rise to teachers. That manifesto?

Ed Robinson ● 46d

and a manifesto pledge they won an election on.

Michael Brigo ● 46d

Steven and Ed are absolutely correct.  This policy is complete dogma.

Robert Wheeler ● 46d

It would also be interesting to know how many are paying for private tuition.Which I assume the "middle class left" see as acceptable even the norm but private schools are not.

Ed Robinson ● 47d

I think the point is that middle class parents on the left of the political spectrum, who would be embarrassed to admit at dinner parties that they send their children to private schools, use their wealth to buy a house in leafy suburbs where they can send the children to a state school without compromising their socialist credentials.

Steven Rose ● 47d

"But grammar schools were and are state schools!"A lot of grammar schools charged fees or had prohibitive practices that meant they were selecting on income."As well as wholly state-funded grammar schools, schools that received state grants could become direct grant grammar schools, with some pupils funded by the state, the rest paying fees."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_System_of_education_in_England,_Wales_and_Northern_Ireland

Ed Robinson ● 47d

"There's nothing new about .."Because it is not new we do not need ti make the situation worse. Governments should make things better.So if the point isn't for social purposes it is just for finance then it is unlikely to raise much money.Not to mention the grey areas that it gives rise to.Decades to sort VAT on tea biscuits just think of all the variety of paid educational courses there are. It will be an bureaucratic nightmare!

Ed Robinson ● 47d

My point is the same point you (via Peter Hutchins) made. There's nothing new about wealthy families choosing to buy properties near good state schools. As he himself says, it's been going on for years before the imposition of VAT.Also, I should point out again. IT WAS A MANIFESTO PLEDGE

Michael Brigo ● 47d

VAT will mean more children that would have gone to private schools going to state schools in the same way that the closure of Grammar schools did.But grammar schools were and are  state schools!  It makes no sense to say that the closure of grammar schools led to more children going to state schools. What it did mean was that most children went and  go to comprehensive schools.As to the issue of VAT on private schools fees you seem to criticise parents who have ‘the advantage of money’ and so can relocate to an area with good state schools and/or pay for private tuition but what about ‘the advantage of money’ that allows parents to buy a private education for their children. Im not saying either is right or wrong, just that your argument is inconsistent.

Jane Carter ● 47d

"So it's not *now* at all"I'm not following Michael B.It means there will be even more pressure on good school places.

Ed Robinson ● 47d

"**Now** these parents are going to choose the best state schools which will either be selective on location or academically."As it has been for years, that's why house prices are so much higher around Barnes primary etc. So it's not *now* at all.

Michael Brigo ● 47d

Since they were banned in 1998,There are still 163 grammar schools in England. That is a small number compared to comprehensive schools but they were not banned.

Jane Carter ● 47d

Link between VAT and Grammy schools:Peter Hitchens has some articles on schools in his blog.VAT will mean more children that would have gone to private schools going to state schools in the same way that the closure of Grammar schools did.Now these parents are going to choose the best state schools which will either be selective on location or academically.Having the advantage of money means the parents can locate within the catchment area. Pretty standard now for most well off parent to pay for private tuition too.These points have been discussed by Peter Hitchens in articles over the years. Also from my own knowledge I believe this to be the case.https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/grammar-schools/

Ed Robinson ● 47d

"no-one is shifting to home schooling"https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg3382380vko"A BBC investigation has found the number of children moving to home education in the UK is at its highest level since the pandemic.Councils received almost 50,000 notifications in the last academic year from families wanting to take their children out of school. This does not include children already being home educated."

Michael Brigo ● 47d

"If you are so keen on statitics, let us say that the 1.9% -not exactly a bloodbath - you cited so efficiently did not include working out that the 1.9% drop is 28% higher than predicted by the government - a drop in the ocean according to you!"Sorry but you are factually incorrect. The amount leaving the private system is 28% higher than the figure estimated by the government. However, as pointed out - you don't know how many of those have left because of the VAT.28% is meaningless without knowing how many are a direct result of the policy.

Michael Brigo ● 47d

Hello Jane,I do not think there is a direct connection between the closure of grammar schools and the addition of VAT to private schools.I know many people regret the phasing out and closure of grammar schools as they were considered to be very good to excellent schools.  I believe grammar schools helped in social mobility.  Since they were banned in 1998, the issue of social mobility was discussed for a very long time.  The subject has somewhat dwindled lately.

Ivonne Holliday ● 47d

Hi YvonneWhatever your views on the adding of VAT to private school fees what is the connection with the closure of grammar schools?

Jane Carter ● 47d

Hello Michael B,You will be horrified to learn that I did read the whole story before posting.  You are not the only one who has!If you are so keen on statitics, let us say that the 1.9% -not exactly a bloodbath - you cited so efficiently did not include working out that the 1.9% drop is 28% higher than predicted by the government - a drop in the ocean according to you!And you choose to forget (I refer to the original post which I will mention below) that any information that comes out now is still too green.  The true impact will be more apparent in a year or so after the VAT was introduced.The original post I refer to is entitled "The impact of Labour's planned VAT charge on private schools" posted by Richard Carter on 12 April 2024 at 12:31.  It is still listed, on page 10 of the postings on the forum, but with the date of 3 April 2025 at 09:08 which is a post by Steven Rose entitled "Nearly 20 councils in England ‘at risk of insolvency’ due to Send costs".  I invite you to return to the original post and read it.  It is long, but the sentence "it is too soon to draw conclusions" (or words to that effect) was included in a few posts. Of course the data does not give clear reasons as to why pupils have left the private schools.  We do not know if the schools were asked this question, whethter the schools are obliged to give that information but, above all, "shift in international students or a move to home-schooling" is utter conjecture.  Why not add the number of parents that have sent their darlings to school abroad?  Or the whole family moving away?But, above everything else, the introduction of VAT on school fees was devious and reprehensible.

Ivonne Holliday ● 47d

The closure of grammar schools happened half a century ago, though they still exist in some areas of the country, so there is no real connection with the recent policy of adding  VAT on private school fees. What evidence do you have to show that the closure of grammar schools has resulted 1)in a decrease in social mobility and 2) in a ballooning in private tuition?

Jane Carter ● 47d

Hello Ed,I wholeheartedly agree with you!

Ivonne Holliday ● 47d

I appreciate some may be a shift in international students but no-one is shifting to be home schooled....More likely the parents can't afford one or two more VAT which is c. £4,200 per person post tax which is c. £8k pre tax. That's quite a significant amount to find and account for.

Gabrielle OMahony ● 47d

If you actually read the story, it's a non-event. A drop of 1.9% - not exactly a bloodbath - and as it's also pointed out."The census data does not give clear reasons as to why pupils have left private school.It could include a shift in international students or a move to home-schooling which would not be reflected in the state school figures."

Michael Brigo ● 47d

Taxing education is just plain wrong.Social mobility has actually decreased since grammar schools were closed.Private tuition has also ballooned since.I wonder what the social consequences will be after this poorly thought out policy?

Ed Robinson ● 48d

Also here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/05/private-school-numbers-plummet-labour-vat-raid/https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/vat-england-government-department-for-education-independent-schools-council-b1231409.htmlPrivate school pupil numbers in England fall after VAT on feeshttps://uk.news.yahoo.com/private-school-pupil-numbers-england-110022936.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAD-cSQKsFc05xXN0FyVIR0796Uo4m_l6z9SmOf0fEz-U8qd9HSMhXBNcN810iVnd3p7s2fMyHBwEavFMSzlQqXR0JTJk006iEuKnqNjbjCVr6mxUJXJQi4nMG4nbIzwsAreA6ZmV-h0rO9_rMo2Rg0P4rl_k4RLR0McgUk3xbyyd

Ivonne Holliday ● 48d