Forum Topic

12 June at Putney Library

I am running 2 sessions at 4.30pm and 6.30pm in support of the Ageing Without Limits campaign by the Centre for Ageing Better. If you have ever heard someone say that he or she looks good for their age, that is not part of the ageing process - it is Ageism and should be challenged by all of us. Entry is free so come along to Putney Library and hear more about this campaign.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 57d30 Comments

Any feedback on how these meetings went?

Jane Carter ● 47d

The importance of attending your hearing and eyesight appointments needs emphasizing as it can be quite difficult to get there and back and the ways that you are reminded are not always easy now that there is an insistance in using technology that is beyond the grasp of many.  Most of us can do some things on our phones and computers BUT technology keeps on changing often unnecessarily and this can be hugely frustrating and difficult when you can't see or hear as well and your fingers don't work as well.  Don't be tempted to not bother!Please everyone remember that MEMORY is MULTI-SENSORY!!!Some places have groups of residents who volunteer and will give lifts to appointments and I remember at one time  finding through Age UK a volunteer from the British Legion who would give my blind FIL a lift to hospital to visit his wife when we couldn't travel to do this as often as he would have liked...

Philippa Bond ● 49d

Even though I accept that the example of ageism below was not the most compelling, you might want to come along anyway. In particular you might be interested in a new report from MPs confirming that Ageism is indeed endemic in our society. The government has so far been lukewarm which probably means they will not implement any of its recommendations even the really easy ones.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 49d

This is so shocking, but from my own experience it just does not surprise me. Delays are one thing but incompetence and negligence in basic administration is unforgivable.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 51d

https://www.moosaduke.com/news-insights/colchester-hospital-put-into-special-measures-over-cancer-records-scandalResults of tests were not reaching the GPs and the elderly were used to be being told about the results by their GPs.  MIL had been introduced to the special cancer team when initially diagnosed but then neither saw or heard anything from them again.  Suddenly it was just too late.  We have to hope we won't ever be caught out like that again.I wondered whether this wasn't the particular situation we learnt of when the Health Secretary had to stand up in Parliament and apologise for the fact that results had been sent by the private firm hired to deal with correspondence to a warehouse instead of to GPs.

Philippa Bond ● 51d

Well yes that would be better. However it doesn’t seem worth challenging ‘for your age’ when there are so many really serious cases of ageism that should be dealt with.

Jane Carter ● 51d

I would also be flattered however it does beg the question whether I would be an less of a person if I did look my age and also what it says about everyone else who looks their age. Actually what I said was if someone says you  look good for your age that is ageism. After all, Why qualify a compliment by saying you look good by adding "for your age". Just say you look good.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 51d

Yes I think you are right on that one.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 51d

I agree with everything you say. I think we are going to have to get used to the idea that the NHS cannot do everything. I have just posted a description of what happened to me which was sheer negligence and incompetence by all concerned. I now have a very jaundiced view as far as the NHS is concerned as this was the first time in my (long) life that I have ever needed a medical intervention and I could scream when I hear about health inequalities because as far as I am concerned not getting life saving treatment is pretty much a health inequality for anyone.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 51d

I suspect you may be right on that one !!

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 51d

The treatment of older people in the NHS is hit and miss. I did not get the treatment I needed a year ago and had to pay for own operation. In my case it was gross negligence as a critical record was not transferred to a new record keeping system which would have warned the medics that my condition had become critical. That record showed that I had been diagnosed 5 years previously and that a deterioration would require surgery. I thought about suing but .......

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 51d

As far as I know criminal investigations are ongoing but unbelievably slowly. Investigations have been stop, start for years so there does not seem to be much will to bring matters to a close. You are absolutely right that ageism exists in the jobs market and not just in IT. One of the messages of the Campaign I am supporting, is that becoming unemployable at 50 is not part of the ageing process, it is Ageism. Research shows that whilst ageism in the workplace is rife, very few cases are brought against the employer even though there would be very good grounds for doing so. A very recent report by the Equalities committee is damning in all respects, but the government do not think there is anything for them to do as the legal framework is there to protect people. Except of course that it doesn't !!

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 51d

I agree. Ageism at work or in healthcare seriously harms people and should be challenged but nobody is harmed by being told they look good for their age. Challenging such a comment would be rude and serve no useful purpose.

Jane Carter ● 52d

Absolutely right, Adam.

Lucille Grant ● 52d

Yes, I was going to mention the Liverpool Care Pathway and the scandal that brought that out into the open.  There were changes made which meant that family were supposed to be included in the discussions on patient prognosis but we all need to be very wary as we have seen and suffered from some bizarre prognoses. I hope that all patients are now allowed to suck a wet sponge lollipop or have their lips moistened or given lipsalve on their lips when just out of surgery or on nil-by-mouth. We should all be aware how care has changed.  We now have to chase everything up ourselves where once we expected to be told of a diagnosis or the results of any tests.  People sometimes drop off the lists...  Everybody in hospital needs a friend or friends on the outside looking after their interests.Much would change if there was only a smooth transition from hospital care to social care and if we all made more of an effort to look after our health the best we can by staying active and healthy for as long as we can.  There are some brilliant hospices for when the pain gets too much and the end is near or when drugs need to be altered and managed a bit more. The cost of these hospices is very high and there just aren't enough - hence so many fundraisers...Cutting the number of staff looking after people in or shortages of hospital staff is never good.  The way that so many people suddenly stop seeing their friends 'because they have carers' or 'they've gone a bit funny' is really sad.  There are also an awful lot of buildings that become no longer accessible because of flights of steps and no lift or any effort to make them accessible and these should be flagged up.  It can mean that the regular socialising that has been an important part of someone's life suddenly comes to an end.  (For my FIL it was the local pub which he had known all his life and which also had a restaurant and the dance hall where he met his wife and function rooms for meetings, wakes etc.)

Philippa Bond ● 52d

as Michael says, ageism in the workplace is a serious problem. However trying to publicise an ageism event by using "you look good for your age" as an ageism rallying call is pretty daft imo

Adam Tripp ● 52d

I meant to add, that one of my cousins successfully sued a hospital concerning the treatment of his father who'd been put on the Liverpool Care Pathway - I'm not sure if that was ageism or for some other reason but the treatment seemed very inappropriate. 

Michael Ixer ● 52d

I see Gosport NHS has been reported but is it still subject to criminal investigation? I think many over 50 yo looking for jobs - particularly in IT - might agree that ageism exists, I've known several people decide they can manage to take early retirement as they're just not getting interviews ...

Michael Ixer ● 52d

One in ten people do not believe that Ageism exists. The extensive evidence provided to the Equalities Committee by scores of highly respected experts confirms that Ageism is in fact endemic. Mind you, when details of scandals such as the Gosport scandal are kept under wraps it is hardly surprising that Ageism is not recognised.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 52d

I think most people are shocked when they understand the true extent of ageism. You mentioned assisted suicide - have a look online for details of the Gosport scandal. 456 people unlawfully killed in a NHS hospital and no one even knows about it. Some MPS do, but although they cannot bring themselves to vote for assisted dying, they have nevertheless turned a blind eye to what happened when patients were administered medication which led to their deaths. Hypocrisy or what ? It needs Channel 4 to make a drama about it as they did with the Post Office scandal.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 52d

"Doubt they'll be queuing out the doors for this one."Time will tell I guess!The state pension age will soon be 67 for many of us and that's assuming that it does not go up again or that there will be a state pension in ten years time.With the Labour government's backing it looks like the UK may soon have legal state assisted suicide.I can see the need for extra awareness when it comes to employment, health and other issues.

Ed Robinson ● 52d

It rather depends on what life has thrown at you how you will look - or feel.Not everybody gets an equal chance.  Many don't ever get what they should be getting or are entitled to.  How do you find a fairer society when so often it seems that luck and life is stacked against you?  Where are the societies and communities and agencies that were once so important and so useful?

Philippa Bond ● 52d

As a man of 70 all I can say is what a load of nonsense. Doubt they'll be queuing out the doors for this one.

Andy Pike ● 52d

Janis you made no such response to me. Of course I'd be no less a person whatever the age I happen to look but that's not the issue. I do not accept that as  ageism. Other illustrations bear out your argument better.

Lucille Grant ● 53d

But you would not dream of saying that someone looks good for a person of colour ? Of course not. So why should it be OK to suggest that someone looks good for their age? These are all conditions over which none of us has control. If someone does look their age does that matter?

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 53d

I agree wholeheartedly that the whole of society has become over sensitive, however is it OK when discussing pensions, to state in a press article that there should be a Dignitas on every corner, or that the "Old" should be kicked off Twitter? Should it be OK that 456 old people were "unlawfully killed" in a NHS hospital (Gosport) and that most people are not even aware of it? As I said to Lucille in response to her comment, would she be less of a person if she did look her age? Would you for example say that someone looks good for a disabled person? All these are unchallenged examples of Ageism and it does regrettably start with language however much I have sometimes struggled with the suggestion in the past.

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 53d

I am just as guilty of that However why is it a compliment that we do not look our age. Suppose you did look your age? Would that make you any less of a person?

Janis Christine Humberstone ● 53d

"If you have ever heard someone say that he or she looks good for their age, that is not part of the ageing process - it is Ageism and should be challenged by all of us."...what a load of nonsense

Adam Tripp ● 57d

I agree Lucille, too many people looking to tell us we should be upset over nothing.

Andy Pike ● 57d

Intriguing. I take it as a compliment of anyone tells me I don't look my age and don't personally see it as ageism!

Lucille Grant ● 57d