Forum Topic

Why is it only Israel that daily makes the news re 'genocide'?

Jews and many living in or are associated with Israel are the race that suffered the greatest genocide in modern times.For those that might have forgotten, some 6,000,000 were murdered on an industrial scale in Nazi Germany in WWII.This naturally has made them at least wary of how they are considered and treated in the West and the Middle East.Palestinians in their conflict with Israel are not experiencing such a fate.It is claimed that Israel has killed 52,000 Palestinians in Gaza.These are figures put out by the 'Gazan Health Ministry' (unelected).This is known to be run by Hamas  which itself murdered and sexually assaulted numerous women, children and the elderly in October 2023 and still hold many hostages as well as the corpses of those it murdered.It does not distinguish between civilian deaths and those of its fighting forces that imbed themselves amongst the general Populus.And of course Hamas is attempting to enact its Charter Declaration which calls for the annihilation of the state of Israel and its Jewish citizens.But we should not forget there have been and still are many conflicts raging around the world that have resulted in many deaths and claims of genocide.They received and get little attention by the anti-Israel bien pensants and fellow travellers.All the focus is on Israel.For example note the deaths resulting from the following -2023 Masalit, West Darfur Sudan - 15,000 deaths2020 Tigray Ethiopia 162,000 deaths2016 Rohingya, Myanmar - 9,000 deaths2016 China - Uyghur birth rate drops 24% because of genocidal persecution2014 Ukraine - 12,000 deaths by Russians2014 Iraq Turkman 3,500 deaths (by ISIS)2014 Iraq/Syria (Yazidis) - 2,100 deaths (by ISIS)2003 Darfur, Sudan - 98,000 deaths2002 North Kivu, DR Congo - 60,000 deaths1996 Kivu, Zaire - 200,000 deaths (Hutus)1994 Rwanda - 491,000 deaths (Tutsis)1992 Bosnia - 31,000 deaths (by Serbs)All inter-tribal as is the conflict initiated by Hamas against Israel.Cut Israel some slack.

John Hawkes ● 103d108 Comments

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gz1ekdee3o"Barrier being built around besieged Sudan city, satellite images show"'An extensive earthen wall is being built around the besieged Sudanese city of el-Fasher and is intended to trap people inside, according to research from Yale University.From satellite images, the university's Humanitarian Research Lab has identified more than 31km (19 miles) of "berms" - as the raised banks are known - constructed since May in territory outside the city occupied by the (Arab) paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (RSF)."Yesterday there was a shelling in a civilian area down in the city centre that ended up killing almost 24 civilians and injuring 55 people, among them five women," Dr Mohamed Faisal Hassan, from the medics association, told the BBC's Newsday programme.The attacks on the central market and a residential area were "deliberate" and "heinous", he said."Three days ago they targeted one of the biggest hospitals in el-Fasher and resulted in a massive massacre of patients and medical staff."(NB reading most reports, it is only Israel and the IDF that attacks hospitals !)BBC Verify says both sides in the conflict have been using berms as a defensive strategy.But the analysis by Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab (HRL), which has been closely monitoring the conflict, suggests that the RSF "is creating a literal kill box around el-Fasher".Since the conflict erupted, RSF fighters and allied Arab militia in Darfur have been accused of targeting people from non-Arab ethnic groups."Some civilians are trying to escape the city but sadly they are being targeted and killed by the RSF forces," Dr Hassan said.The RSF has previously denied charges of targeting civilians and carrying out ethnic cleansing'.PS IDF do not seem to be involved !

John Hawkes ● 5d

Sorry, Mr Barrs, but I should have alluded to this aspect of our RK lessons at school:-"Is the Old Testament history of Israel bloody?"Google AI helps:-"Yes, the history of Israel as depicted in the Old Testament contains numerous violent and bloody events, including mass killings, warfare, and conquest, often attributed to divine command or the actions of the Israelites against their enemies. While the extent to which these events are historically accurate or allegorical is debated among scholars, the biblical narrative itself is replete with accounts of conflict and violence. Examples of Bloodshed in the Old TestamentThe Conquest of Canaan:The Book of Joshua describes the violent conquest and destruction of the Canaanite cities. Wars Against Other Peoples:Other narratives detail wars against nations like the Midianites, with orders for the complete annihilation of males. Divine Intervention:God commands mass killings, such as during the Exodus with the death of Egyptian firstborns, and the destruction of cities like Sodom and Gomorrah. Internal Strife:The Book of Judges describes instances of deception and violence within Israel itself, such as the story of the Levite's concubine in Benjamin (Judges 19), and the subsequent violence against the tribe of Benjamin. Exile and Conquest:The later history of Israel includes the destruction of Jerusalem and the First Temple by the Babylonians, and the subsequent Babylonian exile of the people.Interpretations and ContextTheological Framework:Many of these violent events are presented within a theological framework, portraying God's wrath against disobedience or as a means to protect his people. Historical vs. Literary:The Old Testament is a complex work that includes national history, religious narrative, and theological exposition. Scholars debate its historical reliability, with some arguing for minimal historical evidence for certain events. "Tricky Bits":The violent passages in the Old Testament are often referred to as the "tricky bits," forcing readers to grapple with difficult themes of violence, faith, and the nature of God."Religion, eh!

David Ainsworth ● 6d

Mr Rose'I don't think it is fair to equate Zionism with bigotry. But some Zionist extremists are undoubtedly bigots, as are extremists on the Palestinian side'.There is a major difference between bigotry and terrorism.I don't recall many terrorist attacks by Zionists in the UK but over recent decades we have suffered many from Islamists, Palestinians or not, resulting in much carnage and many deaths. 7 July 2005: 7/7 central London bombings conducted by four separate Islamist extremist suicide bombers (three of whom were British-born sons of Pakistani immigrants), which targeted civilians using the public transport system during the morning rush hour. Three bombs were detonated on three separate trains on the London Underground and one on a double-decker bus. As well as the suicide bombers, 52 other people were killed and around 700 more were injured. 30 June 2007: Two Islamist terrorists drove a Jeep Cherokee loaded with propane canisters into the glass doors of the Glasgow Airport terminal, setting it ablaze. Five people were injured and the only death was of one of the perpetrators, who later died in hospital from his injuries. It was the first terrorist attack to take place in Scotland since the Lockerbie bombing in 1988.14 May 2010: MP Stephen Timms was stabbed during his constituency surgery by Roshonara Choudhry, a British Islamic extremist, in an attempt to kill him. She was found guilty of attempted murder and jailed for life with a minimum term of 15 years. Choudhry was the first Al-Qaeda sympathiser to attempt an assassination in Britain.22 May 2013: A British soldier, Lee Rigby, was murdered in an attack in Woolwich by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, two Islamist extremists armed with a handgun, knives and a cleaver. An attempt was made to decapitate Rigby which was, in part, foiled by bystanders distracting the attackers. Both men were sentenced to life imprisonment, with Adebolajo given a whole life order and Adebowale ordered to serve at least 45 years. Adebolajo had been the subject of interest by the intelligence agencies who conceded there were at least 5 occasions when his actions should have triggered his arrest.22 March 2017: 2017 Westminster attack – Khalid Masood, a 52-year-old Islamist, drove a car into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge, killing three and injuring almost fifty, one of whom died two weeks later. He ran into the grounds of the Palace of Westminster and fatally stabbed police officer Keith Palmer, before being shot dead by police. The attack was treated as an act of terrorism motivated by Islamic extremism22 May 2017: Manchester Arena bombing – An Islamist suicide bomber, 22-year-old Salman Abedi, blew himself up at Manchester Arena as people were leaving an Ariana Grande concert, killing 22 and injuring 1,017. It became the deadliest terrorist attack in Britain since the 7/7 London bombings in 2005. Many of the victims were children or teenagers, the youngest being an eight-year-old girl.3 June 2017: 2017 London Bridge attack – Three Islamists drove a van into pedestrians on London Bridge before stabbing people in and around pubs in nearby Borough Market. Eight people were killed and at least 48 wounded. The attackers were shot dead by police eight minutes after the incident was reported. All three were wearing fake suicide bomb vests.15 September 2017: Parsons Green bombing – The London tube train was targeted and witnesses reported a flash and bang.Thirty people were injured, mostly with flash burns and crush injuries, but there were no fatalities. The threat level was raised to its highest point of critical soon after. Ahmed Hassan, who committed the bombing, received a life sentence with a minimum term of 34 years.14 August 2018: 2018 Westminster car attack – A Ford Fiesta ran down pedestrians outside the palace of Westminster. The car then went on to crash into the security barrier, after aiming at two police officers. Salih Khater, who carried out the attack received a life sentence with a minimum term of 15 years.31 December 2018: Mahdi Mohamud, a Dutch national from a Somali family, stabbed three in a knife attack at Manchester Victoria station. Mohamud shouted "Allahu Akbar!" and "Long live the Caliphate!" during the attack. Despite suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, Mahomud was convicted of a terror offence and attempted murder of three people due to his possession of significant amounts of extremist material and the attack's extensive planning.Shortly before 19:00 BST on 20 June 2020, Khairi Saadallah attacked two groups of people socialising in Forbury Gardens, a public park in the centre of Reading, about 40 miles (64 km) west of London. Using an 8-inch (20 cm)[6] kitchen knife, Saadallah stabbed people in the eye, neck, head and back. A witness said the stabbing was "completely random". 15 October 2023: Ahmed Ali Alid stabbed 70-year-old Terence Carney to death in Hartlepool and seriously injured another man, who survived. Alid claimed the attack to be an act of protest against the Gaza war. Alid was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term of 44 years in May 2024.Doubtless we can 'look forward to many more such attacks' from Palestinian activists supported by their British fellow travellers.

John Hawkes ● 11d

Mr AinsworthAs usual your response is rude and patronising yet still manages to avoid answering directly any questions that both Mr Rose and I have put to you.(See below)Again all we get are web trawled statements of dubious relevance.What a boon Wikipedia is to those like you having limited original thought and thrive only on racist prejudice.Yes, racist as all of your posts are directed against Israel and its citizens.Such targeted racism is of course antisemitism.You claim -'Many Jews do not identify as Zionists, and there is no universal agreement on the political role of Israel or the solution to the conflict with Palestinians'.But I doubt you can quote a figure for the number of Jews that do NOT think that Israel has the right to exist as a sovereign Jewish state on the same basis that Pakistan is recognised as the 'Islamic Republic of Pakistan'.And you are still too chicken 🐔 to answer any direct questions put to you on the topic.'Posted by: John HawkesDate/Time: 22/08/25 10:22:00Mr AinsworthHow about some straight answers to some straight questions ?Posted by: John HawkesDate/Time: 21/08/25 16:21:00Mr AinsworthMore snide and petty digs from you but yet again, no addressing how the current situation can be resolved.I put the following questions to your fellow Israeli-phobe Ms Bond.What are your answers.'As of June 2024, the State of Israel is recognized as a sovereign state by 164 of the other 192 member states of the United Nations, or approximately 85% of all UN members. The State of Israel was formally established by the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949. It also maintains bilateral ties with all of the UNSC Permanent Five. 28 member states have either never recognized Israel or have withdrawn their recognition; others have severed diplomatic relations without explicitly withdrawing their recognition. Additionally, many non-recognizing countries have challenged Israel's existence—predominantly those in the Muslim world—due to significant animosity stemming from the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and the Arab–Israeli conflict'. Wikipedia.1) do you accept the UN resolution accepting Israel as a legitimate sovereign state ?2) do you accept Israel has the right to exist as a sovereign state based on this resolution ?3) if not what should happen to its inhabitants and citizens ?4) how in terms of geography and politics would you define the state of Palestine ?5) who do you think should govern Palestine ?All very well sloganizing from the back of the class, but how about stepping up to the front and telling us what your solution is ?'

John Hawkes ● 12d

Thank you for your reply. It is better than your average, although misleading. Anyway, you can certainly expect congratulatory responses fron the team."your attitude to Zionists aka Jews (with very few exceptions)"Google AI OverviewThere isn't a single, precise global figure for the number of Jewish people who are Zionists, as it varies by country and individual identity, but data from the British Jewish community shows a significant portion identifies as Zionist, though the trend is declining, with a 2024 JPR report finding 63% of British Jews identify as Zionist, down from 72% a decade earlier. Similarly, a Pew Research Center study in 2021 found that 78% of American Jews believed caring about Israel was an essential or important part of being Jewish, which reflects a strong connection to Israel, while also noting many Jews hold diverse views on the conflict and political solutions. Key points from research:Declining but still significant in the UK:A 2024 survey found 63% of British Jews identified as Zionist, a decrease from 72% in the previous decade. Strong attachment in the U.S.:A 2021 Pew Research Center study showed that 78% of U.S. Jews considered caring about Israel to be an essential or important part of their Jewish identity. Diversity of views:Many Jews do not identify as Zionists, and there is no universal agreement on the political role of Israel or the solution to the conflict with Palestinians. Different identities:The terms "Jew," "Israeli," and "Zionist" are not interchangeable, and it is possible to be a Jew, an Israeli citizen, and a Zionist, but not necessarily all three, or to be a Jew without being a Zionist. Factors influencing Zionist identification:Strong ties to Israel:A significant portion of Jewish communities globally maintain a strong emotional and spiritual connection to Israel, even if not all identify with the political ideology of Zionism. Diverse political viewpoints:Like any large population group, Jewish communities are diverse in their political and religious views, leading to a range of opinions on Zionism and the relationship between the Jewish people and the state of Israel." Would you say that Zionists were bigoted or not?

David Ainsworth ● 13d

You are fond of quotation, David, so how about this one from ‘Oxford Languages’ on the meaning of bigotry:‘obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group’This word exactly describes your attitude to Zionists aka Jews (with very few exceptions). Your post of 21/8 at 22.25, in reply to my question as to why you deny legitimacy to the State of Israel, is  a good example. Almost every word of your post was misleading.1) ‘The Zionists returned as colonists, not as equals’. Not true. The early Zionists in the nineteenth century purchased land from Turkish landowners and lived under Turkish rule just like the Arabs. After 1917 Jewish immigrants had to seek permission from the British authorities. They had no more privileges than their Arab neighbours.2) ‘The Palestinians were there and in the majority’. This is obviously true but hardly worth stating. Whenever immigrants first settle in another country, the existing inhabitants are in a majority. The Jews constituted the majority of the population of Jerusalem when the Arabs captured the city in the seventh century. Native Americans  were in a majority when Europeans first settled in North America. 3) ‘But the Zionists were Europeans and the Palestinians were not’. Incorrect. Actually the first Zionists immigrants in the nineteenth century were from Yemen as well as from from Eastern Europe. Up until the Second World War the vast majority were from Europe but after 1948 there was a huge influx of Jews, around 800 000, who had been forced to leave Arab countries and Iran. Today a majority of Israelis are of North African and Middle Eastern descent rather than European.4) ‘To begin with, the Zionists depended on the guns and power of an imperial foreign nation (us)’. Inaccurate, since until 1917 the rulers were the Ottoman Turks, and rather tendentious, in that Jewish immigrants did not ‘depend’ on British military force. The British did their best to maintain peace between the Jews and the Arabs. At the beginning of the Second World War the British halted Jewish immigration, excluding even those fleeing Nazi persecution.5) ‘They did not see the Palestinians as equals’.  Unfair. The Jewish population accepted the UN plan to partition  Palestine in 1948 whereas the Palestinians and the neighbouring Arab countries rejected it. It would be truer to say the Palestinians did not see the Jews as deserving an equal share.6) ‘They terrorised and drove out hundreds of thousands of their “equals”. Incomplete. The day after Israel declared its existence as a state in accordance with the UN’s decision, it was simultaneously attacked by all its Arab neighbours. In the course of the war it is true that 700 000 Palestinians lost their homes, some who who responded to a call from the Arab coalition to leave and to return in triumph when the Jews had been driven into the sea, others driven out. Subsequently they were not allowed to return. This was undoubtedly ethnic cleansing and wrong. But before, during and after 1948 around 800 000 Jews were forced to leave North Africa and the Middle East. This was also ethnic cleansing and wrong.7) ‘They will not allow Palestinians to return’. This is true, but with good reason. The influx of those who left  in 1948 and their descendants, who now number 5 million, would destroy Israel as as a Jewish homeland. In 2000 and 2008 Israel offered to withdraw from 95% of the West Bank in return for peace, but the Palestinians turned the offer down because they insisted on a right of return.8) ‘The talk of a “National Home” was just a mask - they wanted a state.’ What mask? Jews had for centuries had a home in other people’s countries and had suffered persecution as a result.  Zionists always wanted a home of their own, which means a state. And the UN agreed that they they should have a state.9) ‘Lebanon is a state, Iraq is a state, Jordan is a state, Syria is a state, but somehow Palestine is a special case, outside the normal developments.’ The Palestinians could have had a state in 1948, in 2000 and 2008 but each time they rejected it because they were not prepared to coexist with Israel. Now the Israelis no longer trust them to stick to any agreement.1)

Steven Rose ● 13d

Mr AinsworthI assume the bulk of this post is not your own work but taken from '"Myths:- Palestinians are Arabs that arrived in the 7th century.'I will investigate your source.There is another side to the interpretation of history in the Middle East.I quite openly acknowledge that what I post below is also as is the case with you, not my own original thought though I agree with its claims and conclusions.And might I suggest that as a matter of reciprocity, and after you have answered the questions I have posed you twice before (if you are not going to bother, please say) you might read - '"Myths and Facts" - a guide to the Arab Israeli  conflict' by Mitchell G Bard.ISBN number 9781537152721.It requires more serious effort than just trawling Wikipedia, but I am sure you will find it illuminating and may divert you a little from what appear to some to be your antisemitic tendencies.If your predilection for anti-Israel postings on this Forum does not give you the time to do so, perhaps I can spare you the effort and give some quotes from it.1) The term "Palestine" is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegan people who in the twelfth century BCE settled along the Mediterranean coastal plane -  now Israel and the Gaza strip. In the second century CE, after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arab word Filasitin is derived from this Latin name.2) The Hebrews entered the land of Israel about 1300 BCE living under  a tribal confederation until being united under the first monarch King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 BCE. David's son Solomon built the Temple soon after and consolidated the military, administrative and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon's son with the northern kingdom Isreal lasting until 722 BCE when the Assyrians destroyed it and the southern kingdom Judah surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 BCE. The Jewish people  enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty after until most Jews were driven from their homeland in 135 CE.3) Thus it can be justifiably said that Jewish independence in the land of Israel lasted for more than 400 hundred years, longer than that  Americans have experienced in the United States. In fact if not for foreign conquerors Israel would be more than three thousand years old todayBut lets look at the case for the existence of the state of Palestine.4) Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country though Arabic became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No Independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine When the distinguished Arab-American  Princeton professor Philip Titti testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946 he said - "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not"5) Prior to partition Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the first Congress Of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, they adopted the following resolution - "We consider Palestine as Part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds".Similarly the King-Crane commission found that Christian and Muslim Arabs opposed any plan to create a country called 'Palestine' because it was viewed as recognition of Zionist claims. 6) In 1937 a local Arab leader Auni Bey Abdul Hadi told the Peel Commission which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine; "There is no such country as Palestine ! 'Palestine' is a term Zionists invented ! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria".7) The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations echoed this view in a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 which said Palestine was part of the Province of Syria and the Arabs of Palestine did not comprise a separate political entity. 8) A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."9) Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-WWI phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War. Today the Palestinian people have international recognition and claim the rights to self-determination, independence and territory. 10) "Urgently required is a peaceful process that respects the dignity of both peoples," wrote Allen Hertz a former Canadian Government official, "that effects a reconciliation of the subsequent rights of the newly emerged Palestinian people with the prior rights of the ancient Jewish people".Surely this sums up the desire of all right thinking people.It will not be advanced by those on this Forum, for what they are worth, that do not recognise the right of Israel to exist and yet show implicit sympathy towards Palestinian terrorist groups such as Hamas that are determined to see it never to come about.

John Hawkes ● 13d

Mr AinsworthHow about some straight answers to some straight questions ?Posted by: John HawkesDate/Time: 21/08/25 16:21:00Mr AinsworthMore snide and petty digs from you but yet again, no addressing how the current situation can be resolved.I put the following questions to your fellow Israeli-phobe Ms Bond.What are your answers.'As of June 2024, the State of Israel is recognized as a sovereign state by 164 of the other 192 member states of the United Nations, or approximately 85% of all UN members. The State of Israel was formally established by the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949. It also maintains bilateral ties with all of the UNSC Permanent Five. 28 member states have either never recognized Israel or have withdrawn their recognition; others have severed diplomatic relations without explicitly withdrawing their recognition. Additionally, many non-recognizing countries have challenged Israel's existence—predominantly those in the Muslim world—due to significant animosity stemming from the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and the Arab–Israeli conflict'. Wikipedia.1) do you accept the UN resolution accepting Israel as a legitimate sovereign state ?2) do you accept Israel has the right to exist as a sovereign state based on this resolution ?3) if not what should happen to its inhabitants and citizens ?4) how in terms of geography and politics would you define the state of Palestine ?5) who do you think should govern Palestine ?All very well sloganizing from the back of the class, but how about stepping up to the front and telling us what your solution is ?

John Hawkes ● 14d

"What is it that characterises Palestinians  as opposed to Jews? Answer: 1) they speak Arabic rather than Hebrew and 2) they are Muslim (or Christian) rather than Jewish. The Arabic language and Islam were introduced to Palestine in the 7th century CE. So to claim that Palestinians have an unbroken tradition in the Holy Land going back several thousand years is simply nonsense."Well, on Answer 2, not as big a break as suggested?"Judaism is more similar to Islam than to Christianity, particularly in terms of religious practice and theology, due to shared monotheistic traditions, origins in Middle Eastern culture, and a focus on divine law. While Christianity also has roots in Judaism, its core beliefs about Jesus and its development as a religion diverged significantly, making its relationship to Judaism more complex than its shared ancestry might suggest. Reasons Judaism is closer to Islam:Shared Religious Concepts:Both Islam and Judaism are strictly monotheistic religions with roots in Semitic, Middle Eastern cultures. Emphasis on Law and Practice:Both religions emphasize a religion of law and have very similar practices in their daily worship, such as frequent prayer and fasting, while Christianity has largely diverged from these practices. Concept of God and Salvation:Judaism and Islam are much closer to each other in their views on God and salvation than either is to Christianity. Why Christianity is less similar:Divergence from Judaism:Christianity began as a movement within Judaism but evolved to a distinct religion over time. Core Beliefs:A key difference is the rejection of Jesus as the messiah by Judaism, a foundational tenet of Christianity. Theological and Metaphysical Differences:Christianity developed distinct supernatural beliefs, such as a set concept of heaven and hell, and end-times prophecies, that are not shared with Judaism. The "Judeo-Christian" term: Despite common usage, some scholars argue that the phrase "Judeo-Islamic" is a more appropriate term to describe the relationship than "Judeo-Christian" given the greater theological and practical similarities between Judaism and Islam." (Google)And naturally all religions change over long periods."Judaism has changed significantly over its long history, evolving from ancient, Temple-centered worship to diverse forms of practice and belief that reflect different eras and interpretations, such as Rabbinic Judaism and modern movements like Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Judaism. These changes have included adaptations of laws, shifts in theology and prayer, and varying expressions of Jewish identity in response to historical events like the Babylonian Exile and the destruction of the Temple."Continuity or massive change?As the essay said:-"The ethnic cleansing, massacres and colonialism needed to establish Israel can never be justified, regardless of who was there first. It’s a moot point. Even if we follow the argument that Palestinians have only been there for 1300 years, does this suddenly legitimize the expulsion of hundreds of thousands? Of course not. There is no possible scenario where it is excusable to ethnically cleanse a people and colonize their lands.""only been there for 1300 years"!

David Ainsworth ● 14d

"What is it that characterises Palestinians  as opposed to Jews? Answer: 1) they speak Arabic rather than Hebrew and 2) they are Muslim (or Christian) rather than Jewish. The Arabic language and Islam were introduced to Palestine in the 7th century CE. So to claim that Palestinians have an unbroken tradition in the Holy Land going back several thousand years is simply nonsense."Well, on Answer 1, Hebrew and Arabic are quite closely related. And Jewish people have lived in many countries over many centuries, so they have spoken and created many languages. Google:- "Hebrews have spoken Biblical Hebrew, which was later supplemented by Aramaic and Greek during the ancient period. In the diaspora, distinct Jewish languages like Yiddish and Ladino emerged, often incorporating elements of the local languages. Modern Hebrew was revived in the 19th century and is now the official language of Israel.""Revived in the 19th century".Also Google:-"As Jewish communities migrated and settled in various regions of Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, and Asia, they adopted the local languages of those areas. Judaization:These adopted languages were then modified by incorporating Hebrew and Aramaic words and using the Hebrew alphabet, leading to distinct Jewish languages. Examples of Jewish languagesYiddish: A Judeo-German language developed by Ashkenazi Jews in Central and Eastern Europe. Ladino (Judeo-Spanish): The language of Sephardic Jews who lived on the Iberian Peninsula before their expulsion. Judeo-Arabic: A collection of dialects spoken in various parts of the Arab world, such as Yemen, the Maghreb, Iraq, and Egypt. Judeo-Persian: Spoken by Jewish communities in Persia (Iran). Judeo-Greek (Yevanic): Spoken by Jews in northern Greece. Judeo-Catalan: Spoken by Jewish communities in Catalonia and other parts of the Iberian Peninsula. Judeo-Malayalam: A nearly extinct language once spoken by the Keralan Jews in southern India.""Ancient Hebrew changed significantly over time, particularly with major changes in its script, the development and later addition of vowel pointing systems, and substantial shifts in phonology, grammar, and vocabulary. While the language ceased to be a living, spoken tongue for nearly two millennia, its revival in the late 19th century led to a distinct Modern Hebrew, which differs considerably from its ancient form, much like how Old English differs from Modern English."Trigger's broom?

David Ainsworth ● 14d

"The Palestinians Arabs most certainly do not have ‘thousands of years of unbroken presence in the land’. The Arabs only conquered Jerusalem  in 638 CE., when the Jews still constituted the majority of the population. Jews have been living in Palestine since Biblical times."Inaccurate, I'm afraid. A good corrective article to read:-"Myths:- Palestinians are Arabs that arrived in the 7th century.A frequently recurring theme when discussing the history of Palestine, is the question of “who was there first?”. The implication being, whoever was there first deserves ownership of the land. I have lost count of how many times I have encountered the argument that “The Jewish people have been in Palestine before the Muslims/Arabs,” or a variation thereof. This has always struck me as an interesting example of how people learn just enough history to support their world view, separating it completely from any historical context or the larger picture of the region.Since this question is so widespread, and since I see it answered in different, and in my opinion, unhelpful ways, I would like to open up the topic for wider discussion.The argument is simple to follow: Palestinians today are mostly Arabs. The Arabs came to the Levant with the Muslim conquest of the region. Therefore, Arabs -and as an extension Palestinians- have only been in Palestine and the Levant since the seventh century AD.There are a couple of glaring problems with this line of thought. First of all, there is a clear conflation of Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians. None of these are interchangeable. Arabs have had a long history in the Levant before the advent of Islam. For example, The Nabataean kingdom ruled over Jordan, southern Palestine and Sinai a whole millennium before Muslims ever set foot in the area. Another example would be the Ghassanid kingdom, which was a Christian Arab kingdom that extended over vast areas of the region. As a matter of fact, many prominent Christian families in Palestine today, such as Maalouf, Haddad and Khoury, can trace their lineage back to the Ghassanid kingdom.The second problem with this is that there is a misunderstanding of the process that is the Arabization of the Middle East and North Africa. Once again, we must view the Islamization of newly conquered lands and their Arabization as two distinct phenomena. The Islamization process began instantly, albeit slowly. Persia, for example took over 2 centuries to become a majority Muslim province. The Levant, much longer. The Arabization of conquered provinces though, began later than their Islamization. The beginning of this process can be traced back to the Marwanid dynasty of the Ummayad Caliphate. Until that point, each province was ruled mostly with its own language, laws and currency. The process of the Arabization of the state united all these under Arabic speaking officials, and made it law that the language of state and of commerce would become Arabic. Thus, it became advantageous to assimilate into this identity, as many government positions and trade deals were offered only to Muslim Arabs.So although the vast majority of the population of these lands were not ethnically Arab, they came to identify as such over a millennium. Arab stopped being a purely ethnic identity, and morphed into a mainly cultural and linguistic one. In contrast to European colonialism of the new world, where the native population was mostly eradicated to make place for the invaders, the process in MENA is one of the conquered peoples mixing with and coming to identify as their conquerors without being physically removed, if not as Arabs, then as Muslims.Following from this, the Palestinian Arabs of today did not suddenly appear from the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century to settle in Palestine, but are the same indigenous peoples living there who changed how they identified over time. This includes the descendants of every group that has ever called Palestine their home. When regions change rulers, they don’t normally change populations. Throughout history, peoples have often changed how they identified politically. The Sardinians eventually became Italians, Prussians became Germans. It would be laughable to suggest that the Sardinians were kicked out and replaced by a distinct foreign Italian people. We must separate the political nationalist identity of people from their personhood as human beings, as nationalism is a relatively modern concept, especially in the Middle East.Naturally, no region is a closed container. Trade, immigration, invasion and intermarriage all played a role in creating the current buildup of Palestinian society. There were many additions to the people of the land over the millennia. However, the fact remains that there was never a process where Arab or Muslim conquerors completely replaced the native population living there, only added to them.The trap.So, what does this all mean for Palestine?Absolutely nothing.Although the argument has many ahistorical assumptions and claims, it is not these which form its greatest weakness. The whole argument is a trap. The basic implication of this line of argumentation is as follows:If the Jewish people were in Palestine before the Arabs, then the land belongs to them. Therefore, the creation of Israel would be justified.From my experience, whenever this argument is used, the automatic response of Palestinians is to say that their ancestors were there first. These ancestors being the Canaanites. The idea that Palestinians are the descendants of only one particular group in a region with mass migrations and dozens of different empires and peoples is not only ahistorical, but this line of thought indirectly legitimizes the original argument they are fighting against.This is because it implies that the only reason Israel’s creation is unjustified is because their Palestinian ancestors were there first. It implies that the problem with the argument lies in the details, not that the argument as a whole is absolute nonsense and shouldn’t even be entertained.The ethnic cleansing, massacres and colonialism needed to establish Israel can never be justified, regardless of who was there first. It’s a moot point. Even if we follow the argument that Palestinians have only been there for 1300 years, does this suddenly legitimize the expulsion of hundreds of thousands? Of course not. There is no possible scenario where it is excusable to ethnically cleanse a people and colonize their lands. Human rights apply to people universally, regardless of whether they have lived in an area for a year or ten thousand years.If we reject the “we were there first” argument, and not treat it as a legitimizing factor for Israel’s creation, then we can focus on the real history, without any ideological agendas. We could trace how our pasts intersected throughout the centuries. After all, there is indeed Jewish history in Palestine. This history forms a part of the Palestinian past and heritage, just like every other group, kingdom or empire that settled there does. We must stop viewing Palestinian and Jewish histories as competing, mutually exclusive entities, because for most of history they have not been.These positions can be maintained while simultaneously rejecting Zionism and its colonialism. After all, this ideologically driven impulse to imagine our ancestors as some closed, well defined, unchanging homogenous group having exclusive ownership over lands corresponding to modern day borders has nothing to do with the actual history of the area, and everything to do with modern notions of ethnic nationalism and colonialism.Further ReadingMasalha, Nur. Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History. Zed Books Ltd., 2018.El-Haj, Nadia Abu. Facts on the ground: Archaeological practice and territorial self-fashioning in Israeli society. University of Chicago Press, 2008.Hjelm, Ingrid, et al., eds. A New Critical Approach to the History of Palestine: Palestine History and Heritage Project 1. Routledge, 2019.Bowersock, Glen W. “Palestine: ancient history and modern politics.” Journal of Palestine Studies 14.4, 1985: 49-57."

David Ainsworth ● 14d

Mr AinsworthMore snide and petty digs from you but yet again, no addressing how the current situation can be resolved.I put the following questions to your fellow Israeli-phobe Ms Bond.What are your answers. 'As of June 2024, the State of Israel is recognized as a sovereign state by 164 of the other 192 member states of the United Nations, or approximately 85% of all UN members. The State of Israel was formally established by the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949. It also maintains bilateral ties with all of the UNSC Permanent Five. 28 member states have either never recognized Israel or have withdrawn their recognition; others have severed diplomatic relations without explicitly withdrawing their recognition. Additionally, many non-recognizing countries have challenged Israel's existence—predominantly those in the Muslim world—due to significant animosity stemming from the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and the Arab–Israeli conflict'. Wikipedia.1) do you accept the UN resolution accepting Israel as a legitimate sovereign state ?2) do you accept Israel has the right to exist as a sovereign state based on this resolution ?3) if not what should happen to its inhabitants and citizens ?4) how in terms of geography and politics would you define the state of Palestine ?5) who do you think should govern Palestine ?All very well sloganizing from the back of the class, but how about stepping up to the front and telling us what your solution is ?

John Hawkes ● 14d

Ms BondYet another selective net trawl which you use to equate some driving inconvenience for Palestinians with the genocidal pogrom Hamas, their terrorist group, perpetrated on the Jews in October  2023.In all honesty I think you believe this was justified for I have never seen you condemn it with anything like the foaming wrath you save for the condemnation of all actions, including driving restrictions, Israel feels necessary to carry out in order to protect itself.Everyone knows that Arabs and Jews have claimed territorial rights and co-habited the landmass that is now recognised as Israel and Palestine for millennia.Not always amicably of course but with each party having a reasonable case. You seem to think the dispute started recently but then of course your reading of history, ancient and modern, seems to be coloured by a hatred of Jews and an unfathomable belief that Arabs have sole rights to the territory and have been uniquely and sorely treated over that time.From where in this territory do you think the Palestinian Arabs have been displaced ?Is that not what the Arabs have been trying to do to the Jews and still are ? Eventually, the UN and 'grown up countries' proposed an equitable solution.'As of June 2024, the State of Israel is recognized as a sovereign state by 164 of the other 192 member states of the United Nations, or approximately 85% of all UN members. The State of Israel was formally established by the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949. It also maintains bilateral ties with all of the UNSC Permanent Five. 28 member states have either never recognized Israel or have withdrawn their recognition; others have severed diplomatic relations without explicitly withdrawing their recognition. Additionally, many non-recognizing countries have challenged Israel's existence—predominantly those in the Muslim world—due to significant animosity stemming from the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and the Arab–Israeli conflict.'Please answer the following -1) do you accept the UN resolution ?2) do you accept Israel has the right to exist as a sovereign state based on this resolution ?3) if not what should happen to its inhabitants and citizens ? 4) how in terms of geography and politics would you define the state of Palestine ?5) who do you think should govern Palestine ?Please, please, please let's put this argument to bed by you giving us all some strait answers and not just childish factoids taken from obscure sources.

John Hawkes ● 14d

Wait no more, Mr Wheeler“Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population – an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs…” Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923.“A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!… Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important… to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonizing.”Vladimir Jabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923.“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister):

David Ainsworth ● 15d

"The idea that Palestine was 'colonised a hundred years ago' is historical fantasy."Well, you should tell the early Zionists. They said that they were colonists."Narrowing down colonisation to the period when Jewish settlers started to buy land from the Turkish owners in the late nineteenth century is anti-Semitic propaganda"Admitting that the Zionists were the latest in a long chain of colonisers over thousands of years does not make their colonisation of Palestine any more acceptable. It was only possible by an absence of democracy and by military force (thanks to Britain). Your response is reminiscent of the lecture by Richard Crossman the important Labour figure:-"in 1959, when he delivered that year’s Chaim Weizmann Memorial Lectures at the Weizmann Institute in Israel, Crossman pondered what he considered the great Zionist misfortune: their colonising effort came too late to be respectable. In the 19th century and before it had been “assumed that civilisation would be spread by the white man settling overseas”. In South America, North America and South Africa, white settlers had brought civilisation. “No one”, he writes, at least until the 20th century, had “seriously challenged their right, or indeed, their duty, to civilise these continents by physically occupying them, even at the cost of wiping out the aboriginal population”. If only the Zionist settlers had “achieved their majority before 1914, they would have been accepted without any compunction of any kind”. Instead, “they had the misfortune to come after Woodrow Wilson and Lenin had proclaimed self-determination a principle”. He actually complained, quite unfairly, about Attlee and Bevin having had a “prejudice in favour of the native and against the white settler”."the white settler”!"even at the cost of wiping out the aboriginal population”!And Crossman was supposed to be a leftwinger, a Bevanite!

David Ainsworth ● 15d

Yes, Philippa, there are fanatics in Israel but not genocidal fanatics nor international revolutionaries like Hamas. While  Hamas want to exterminate the Jewish population of Israel, the Israelis don't want to kill the entire Arab population of the Middle East. While Hamas wish to overthrow the regimes of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, Israel does not want to destabilise these countries. What they want is peace. Israel concluded peace deals with the Egyptians and the Jordanians over thirty years ago which are still intact. And they were about to normalise relations with Saudi Arabia, until October 7 intervened and  Jeremy Bowen and Jon Donnison of the BBC told the world that Israel was responsible for a missile attack on the Al Ahli hospital in Gaza (actually caused by Islamic Jihad) whereupon the Saudis broke off negotiations. The Israelis only attack countries which send rockets into Israel viz Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Yemen and Gaza.There are of course Israeli fanatics among the settlers on the West Bank and among their supporters in the government. These can be divided into two groups. There are the religious fanatics who believe that God gave the Jewish people the whole of that area 5000 years ago. But they are outnumbered by the political extremists who believe that the settlements are the best way of preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state on the West Bank which they see as an existential threat to Israel given that polls show that 80% of the population would support Hamas against the 'moderate' faction led by Mahmoud Abbas. In other words, they fear that the West Bank would become a second Gaza, under the control of Hamas and dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Many ordinary Israelis, who would not describe themselves as extremists, share this fear.

Steven Rose ● 15d

Ms Bond'Yes, I am aware that there were some people from the Kibbutzes that suffered on 7 October accompanied Palestinians to hospitals - when there were hospitals.  Palestinians aren't free to travel on a lot of the roads - they were built for Jews  only and getting through IDF checkpoints can be problematical.'Amazing !Comparing the October 2023 pogrom with the travel inconvenience now experienced by the Palestinian terrorists that carried it out !Might I remind you of “Healey’s First Law Of Holes: When in one, stop digging.” ― Denis Healey ?But I hope you ignore it as your comments just reinforce the inanity of your arguments and your ignorance of the circumstances of a complex political situation.And for all your pearl clutching and bleating about the suffering of the Palestinians, to make a comment referring to 'some people from the Kibbutzes that suffered on 7 October' proves your sympathy for those that have suffered is biased and if not false then at least paper thin.Remember the circumstances of '7 October' and the suffering ?'The October 7 attacks were a series of coordinated armed incursions from the Gaza Strip into the Gaza envelope of southern Israel, carried out by Hamas and several other Palestinian militant groups on October 7, 2023, during the Jewish holiday of Simchat Torah. In total, 1,195 people were killed by the attacks:736 Israeli civilians (including 38 children), 79 foreign nationals, and 379 members of the security forces. 364 civilians were killed and many more wounded while attending the Nova music festival. At least 14 Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF's use of the Hannibal Directive. About 250 Israeli civilians and soldiers were taken as hostages to the Gaza Strip. Dozens of cases of rape and sexual assault reportedly occurred, but Hamas officials denied the involvement of their fighters.' Wikipedia.But on the other hand please do keep posting to remind us of  the, to me at least, antisemitism which is behind your and many other comments made on this topic and the type of people that make them.And, if the comments were not so sick and the background not so sad your thoughtless comments actually bring a smile to one's face as one asks "who is this person" ?

John Hawkes ● 15d

Ms Bond'I didn't look for when all the restrictions on the people on where and how they go about their legitimate business eg looking after their olive groves started.  These people have not been free for years with increasing restrictions creating a situation resembling the apartheid of South Africa.  After all if the people were or had been free to move around then there would not have been such a fuss about the restriction of aid into the area'.One might suggest that those that govern (with no mandate) Gaza, namely Hamas, had concentrated on helping the Gazan Palestinians develop their economy rather than getting them involved in a genocidal war against Israel, then this situation might have been more positive.https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjeynvp409voWill Hamas now actually be more accommodating of the peace solution defined by the Arab mediators who are awaiting a formal response from Israel after Hamas said it had accepted a new proposal for a Gaza ceasefire and hostage release deal.Even though it is thankfully now defeated, can it be trusted ?The plan was presented by Qatar and Egypt, which are trying to avert a major new Israeli offensive to occupy Gaza fully.Qatar said it was "almost identical" to a US proposal for a 60-day truce, during which around half of 50 hostages held in Gaza - 20 of whom are believed to be alive - would be handed over and the two sides would negotiate a lasting ceasefire and the return of the rest.In recent days, Israel's government has said it would no longer accept a partial deal - only a comprehensive one that would see all the hostages freed.Freeing the hostages doesn't seem a big deal does it Ms Bond unless you are a rabid Jew hater ?

John Hawkes ● 16d

https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/08/1165642'13 August 2025 Peace and Security.UN human rights chief Volker Türk has expressed outrage over Monday’s deadly large-scale attack by the Rapid Support Forces militia on El Fasher, the capital of Sudan’s North Darfur state, which has been besieged by the RSF since April last year.At least 57 civilians were killed in the attack, which included the Abu Shouk displacement camp on the outskirts of the city, and the UN human rights office, OHCHR, is also following up on allegations of summary executions there.  “It is with dismay that we yet again witness an unimaginable horror inflicted upon civilians in El Fasher, who have endured over a year of siege, persistent attacks and dire humanitarian conditions,” said Mr. Türk.“Such repeated attacks on civilians, which raise serious concerns under international humanitarian law, are totally unacceptable and must stop.”Between January and June, the RSF – which has been battling forces of the military government for control of Sudan for over two years – has attacked the Abu Shouk camp at least 16 times, killing at least 212 and leaving 111 others injured.  “Once again, I am raising the alarm about the serious risk of ethnically motivated persecution as the RSF tries to seize control of El Fasher and Abu Shouk camp,” Mr. Türk stressed, reiterating his call to protect civilians and urging humanitarian pauses in besieged areas to reach those in need.UN human rights officials recently interviewed survivors of the RSF’s devastating assault on Zamzam camp, 15 kilometres south of El Fasher, where famine was confirmed in August 2024.  Testimonies corroborated previous documentation of serious human rights abuses against civilians during a particularly deadly attack on Zamzam camp in April 2025, including killings, widespread rape and gang rape, enforced disappearances and torture.  “I urge third States to use all their influence to put an end to these violations,” said Mr. Türk. “Accountability is crucial to break this cycle of persistent and egregious violations.” Still no reference to any genocide or war crimes committed by Israel and the IDF.These terrorists seem to be Arabs.Interesting that they seem to be active in Yemen which Israel sees as a a potential threat to its own existence,On 20 July 2024, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) launched an attack on Hudaydah Port in Al Hudaydah, Yemen. The attack damaged a power generating station, an oil refinery, fuel storage facilities belonging to the Yemen Petroleum Corporation (YPC), and port cranes. Israel claimed it targeted weapon storage facilities. 14 people were killed, including 12 port employees and more than 90 were injured, many with severe burns.The attack was codenamed by the IDF as Operation Outstretched Arm. The day before the attack, a Houthi unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) crashed into an apartment building in Tel Aviv, Israel, killing one civilian. The Houthis have been attacking Israel in response to the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, which has killed more than 30,000 Palestinians at the time. Houthi officials condemned the Israeli bombing of Al Hudaydah, promised retaliation, and said they will not stop until what they called "the genocide in Gaza" is stopped.Between January and June, the RSF (The Rapid Support Forces)  is a paramilitary force formerly operated by the government of Sudan. The RSF grew out of, and is primarily composed of, the Janjaweed militias which previously fought on behalf of the Sudanese government – which has been battling forces of the military government for control of Sudan for over two years – has attacked the Abu Shouk camp at least 16 times, killing at least 212 and leaving 111 others injured.The Janjaweed are an Arab nomad militia group operating in the Sahel region, specifically in Sudan, particularly in Darfur and eastern Chad. They have also been speculated to be active in Yemen. According to the United Nations definition, Janjaweed membership consists of Arab nomad tribes from the Sahel, the core of whom are Abbala Arabs, traditionally employed in camel herding, with significant recruitment from the Baggara.  “Once again, I am raising the alarm about the serious risk of ethnically motivated persecution as the RSF tries to seize control of El Fasher and Abu Shouk camp,” Mr. Türk stressed, reiterating his call to protect civilians and urging humanitarian pauses in besieged areas to reach those in need.UN human rights officials recently interviewed survivors of the RSF’s devastating assault on Zamzam camp, 15 kilometres south of El Fasher, where famine was confirmed in August 2024.   

John Hawkes ● 17d

Thank you for that link."Restraining Order Issued Against Settler for Harassment of Umm al-Khair Community in South Hebron Hills14.7.25On Monday, July 14, 2025, the Jerusalem Magistrate’s Court issued a restraining order against settler Shimon Atiya, prohibiting him from approaching the home of the al-Dal’in family in the Palestinian village of Umm al-Khair, located in the South Hebron Hills, within a distance of 50 meters. Atiya was documented repeatedly harassing the residents, entering their yard, staying there for extended periods, and frightening family members.The restraining order request, submitted by attorney Snir Klein from the law office of Michael Sfard on behalf of the family, described dozens of incidents of violence, assault, and harassment by Atiya against the residents of Umm al-Khair and the al-Dal’in family in particular. Due to ongoing settler harassment, many residents of Umm al-Khair are no longer able to access grazing lands, and several families, including the al-Dal’ins, were forced to sell their herds—losing their primary source of livelihood.Shimon Atiya is one of the founders of the illegal outpost “Shoreshim” Farm, established in 2022 about 800 meters from the homes of Umm al-Khair. Atiya and youths from the outpost frequently enter the village day and night, with or without livestock, assaulting, cursing, harassing, threatening, and intimidating residents, including women and children. Atiya has also been documented destroying and vandalizing residents’ property. Despite numerous complaints filed with the police, no action has been taken.During the court hearing, Atiya claimed that the lands of the Carmel settlement—approximately 1,900 dunams—had been allocated to him for agricultural and grazing purposes. He argued that part of the family’s house and yard were included in that allocation, and therefore he was entitled to graze his flock there. His lawyer claimed that this was an expression of his “possession claim” over the area. The court rejected this argument, ruling that if Atiya believes he has rights to the land, he must pursue them through legal means and is forbidden from entering the family’s yard or harassing them.Residents of Umm al-Khair, like many Palestinians living in Area C of the West Bank, suffer from repeated attacks by settlers from nearby Farms outposts, including physical violence and damage to property. Israeli police and security forces have failed to prevent these assaults, which have already led to the displacement of dozens of Palestinian communities from their homes."And the response of the illegal settlers?Two weeks later they killed a Palestinian:-"On July 29, Israeli settler Yinon Levi entered the Palestinian village of Umm al-Kheir in the South Hebron Hills with a bulldozer to carry out infrastructure work between homes in the village. Several residents attempted to stop the work. Levi opened fire, killing Odeh Hadalin, a father of three, schoolteacher and peace activist. The bulldozer seriously injured another Palestinian.""Hadalin’s last WhatsApp message was a desperate plea for help: “The settlers are working behind the houses and trying to cut our water line… if that happens, our community won’t have a single drop of water.”""Peace Now: “This shocking and outrageous event is not the result of a lone violent settler who disregards Palestinian lives, but rather the outcome of a longstanding and organized Israeli policy. According to this policy, violent settlers harass and expel Palestinians from their homes; the state finances their infrastructure; the army provides protection; and the police avoid investigation and prosecution. This violence has already led to the expulsion of dozens of Palestinian communities and the displacement of thousands. We have reached a new moral low, where Palestinians under Israeli control are left entirely defenseless against violent Israeli gangs.”"https://peacenow.org.il/en/yinon-levi-um-al-kheir-killingAnd the result?:-"Israel held on to Awdah Hathaleen’s body for over a week after he was shot during clashes with extremist settler, who was only briefly detained"Only briefly detained.https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-activist-allegedly-killed-by-settler-buried-after-israel-returns-body/

David Ainsworth ● 22d

Mr AinsworthThis sounds pretty appalling does it not ?Any comments ?Accusations of genocide and ethnic cleansing even.Worse than the attack on Palestinian football supporters by Israeli fans in Holland wouldn't you say ?I am sure you will quickly condemn it though I might point out the fact that the IDF do not seem to have been involved as the assassins seem to have been Muslim Arabs and the victims non-Arab communities."Dozens killed in attack on Sudan camp for people who had fled war"https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c890dx9vk8do2 hours agoBarbara Plett UsherAfrica correspondent, BBC News'At least 40 people have been killed in an attack on a camp for displaced people in Sudan's western Darfur region, according to an aid group that works there.The Abu Shouk Emergency Response Room said Monday's assault was carried out by the Rapid Support Forces (RSF). The resistance committee in nearby el-Fasher city, made up of local citizens and activists, also reported this.El-Fasher, which came under intense attack as well, is the last major foothold in Darfur for the army and its allies, which have been fighting the paramilitary RSF in the two-year civil war.The conflict has triggered a humanitarian crisis with the UN warning that families trapped in the besieged city faced starvation.Sudanese media reported that the camp was caught in the crossfire of the fighting in el-Fasher.But the aid group inside Abu Shouk, where at least 200,000 people live, said some of those killed in the attack were shot in their homes while others were gunned down in public.A US-based organisation that analyses satellite imagery and videos said that it identified a large grouping of 40 light vehicles in the north-west neighbourhoods of the camp, which appear to corroborate reports that the attack came from the north.The Yale Humanitarian Research Lab added that it was investigating images and videos "allegedly showing RSF shooting at people crawling away from them and berating and using ethnic slurs".The camp was created more than two decades ago by people from non-Arab communities - including the Fur and Zaghawa - who were fleeing attacks by the Janjaweed militia.The RSF has its origins in this notorious militia that was accused of carrying out a genocide.The RSF has also been widely accused of ethnic cleansing in Darfur during this war, and the US has sanctioned it with allegations of genocide.The RSF has previously denied such charges, saying it is not part of what it calls tribal conflicts.Zaghawa fighters have joined the army in defending el-Fasher, so it is possible that the RSF was deliberately targeting Zaghawa civilians in the camp.The camps for displaced people near el-Fasher have frequently come under attack during the war.In April, more than 100 people died and thousands fled Zamzam camp as the RSF occupied it and took it over.Since the conflict began in April 2023, tens of thousands of people have died, 12 million have been forced from their homes and famine has been declared in parts of the country'.

John Hawkes ● 23d

The psychopathology of the debate over Idrael is interesting. Sympathy for the plight of civilians caught up in a war us a natural human emotion. But so is the desire to appear virtuous. And so, unfortunately, is the pleasure to be derived from righteous indignation at the wickedness of others. Summary condemnation of Israel and a call for an end to their campaign in Gaza satisfies all three desires at once . You can express no doubt genuine sympathy for Palestinian civilians. You can gain credit as an apostle of peace. And you can castigate the Israelis as criminals and those who support them as complicit in their crimes.Unfortunately the comfort of this position is undermined by the reality of the situation, which is that Hamas will only return the hostages if Israel agrees to withdraw from Gaza, leaving Hamas in control of the territory. This conflicts with the second satisfaction outlined above. You can't pose as an apostle of peace when what you propose would have the effect of leaving a band of genocidal maniacs, rapists, torturers and child killers in charge of a territory.At this point the critics of  Israel employ several strategies. One is silence. That is to say, they refuse to answer any questions and ignore all requests to state their position on a reasonable solution. Another is abuse, arguing that they won't discuss the issue with 'bores' and 'propagandists'. And another is digression. They introduce irrelevant material such as the naqba of 1948 or the (reprehensible) behaviour of the settlers on the West Bank.The truth is that there is no easy solution. Everyone would like to see and end to the war and the safe return of the hostages. Most people would agree that Hamas cannot be allowed to govern Gaza. And most people would like to see compromise whereby the Palestinians can rebuild their lives while Israel is safeguarded grom attack. But how to achieve this?

Steven Rose ● 43d

"There were bodies everywhere': Druze residents describe 'bloodbath' in Syrian city Suweida"https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y76e9p1gno'Over the last five days, Rima says she has witnessed "barbaric" scenes.The 45-year-old Druze woman has lived in the southern Syrian city of Suweida her whole life, and never thought her once-peaceful hometown would become the scene of a bloodbath."There were bodies everywhere outside our building," she told the BBC in a phone interview, using a pseudonym out of fear for her safety.Rima said she huddled inside her home, bracing for the unimaginable, as gunmen - government forces and foreign fighters - moved through her neighbourhood earlier this week, going door-to-door looking for their next victim."One of the worst feelings ever is to keep waiting for people to come into your house and decide whether we should live or die," she recalled, her voice still trembling with fear.The violence has left Rima and her neighbours feeling abandoned and afraid in their own homes, as bullets and shells sounded off outside.Long-running tensions between Druze and Bedouin tribes in Suweida erupted into deadly sectarian clashes on Sunday, following the abduction of a Druze merchant on the highway to the capital, Damascus.As the fighting spread to other parts of the southern province, the government of interim President Ahmed al-Sharaa - who led the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad's regime by Islamist-led rebels in December - announced that it would deploy the interior and defence ministry's forces to "restore stability".Since the fall of Assad, some local Druze leaders have rejected the presence of the security forces in Suweida city. When government forces were deployed on Tuesday, the fighting escalated.Soon, the government's forces were being accused of attacking both Druze fighters and civilians, which prompted the Israeli military to intervene with a series of air strikes that it said were intended to protect the Druze.As Rima watched this play out, the lack of internet and power made it difficult to keep up with the unfolding events. All she knew for sure was what she could see from her window: slaughtered bodies and burned buildings.Syrian state media have also cited authorities and Bedouin tribes as saying that "outlaw groups" carried out "massacres" and other crimes against Bedouin fighters and civilians.The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group, has said it has documented the killing of at least 594 people since Sunday, including 154 Druze civilians, of whom 83 were summarily killed by government forces, and three members of Bedouin tribes who were summarily killed by Druze fighters.'.The vast majority of Bedouins adhere to Islam as does the Syrian government.No IDF known to have been involved.

John Hawkes ● 48d

"Burkina Faso military rulers scrap electoral commission, taking control of future polls"https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyzj2k2pmvo'Burkina Faso's military rulers have disbanded the country's electoral commission calling it a waste of money.The interior ministry will handle elections in the future, state-run RTB TV reported.Since seizing power in September 2022, the coup leaders have initiated sweeping reforms, including the postponement of elections which would lead to a return to civilian rule.A nationwide vote was due last year, but the junta extended the period of transition to democracy until July 2029, allowing leader Capt Ibrahim Traoré to remain in power and free to contest the next presidential election.After coming to power three years ago amid criticism that the civilian authorities were failing to deal with a growing Islamist insurgency, the military leaders have rejected the assistance of former colonial power France in favour of Russia.Rights groups have since accused the army of targeting civilians in its attempt to quash the militants, as well as suppressing political activity and the freedom of expression.There are also question marks over the effectiveness of the military operation. In the first half of 2025, jihadist group JNIM said it had carried out over 280 attacks in Burkina Faso – double the number for the same period in 2024, according to data verified by the BBC.Al-Qaeda affiliate Jama'at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM) is the main group behind a surge in militant jihadist attacks sweeping across several West African nations, especially Burkina Faso, Mali and Niger.Makes the IDF look like pussycats !

John Hawkes ● 49d

More Islamist aggression against Israel in the Middle East.https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/whats-happening-in-southern-syria-and-why-israel-is-involved/'Over the last 24 hours, southern Syria has seen a sharp escalation in violence involving Syrian government forces, local Druze militias, and Israeli airpower. The developments centre on the city of As-Suwayda and the surrounding region, home to much of Syria’s Druze population, and have drawn renewed attention to the complex relationship between the Druze community, the Syrian regime, and Israel.By this morning, Israel had moved reinforcements to its northern border. The IDF (Israel Defence Forces) reported that dozens of suspects attempted to infiltrate Israeli territory from Syria, specifically in the Khader area. In cooperation with the Border Police, Israeli forces worked to prevent infiltration and to disperse the gathering.What explains this sudden surge in hostilities – and why is Israel involving itself?At the centre of the picture is the Druze minority. Numbering roughly one million across the region, the Druze are a religious community with roots in 11th-century Egypt and theological elements drawn from Islam, Greek philosophy, and other traditions.Reports suggest that Druze communities in and around Suwayda had been under mounting pressure from both the Assad regime and Islamist groups. In late April, tensions escalated dramatically after a group of Syrian Druze were allowed to visit religious sites in Israel for a pilgrimage. Upon returning to Syria, they were accused by jihadist figures of being Israeli agents,. Clerics in several mosques reportedly called for jihad against the Druze.Since then, there have been reports of targeted attacks, executions, and armed assaults on Druze areas. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has reported that more than 200 people have been killed in recent clashes; of those, 92 were Druze, including 21 civilians who were reportedly executed by government forces. A video circulated yesterday appearing to show Syrian soldiers forcibly shaving the moustaches of Druze men – a deliberate act of humiliation and disrespect. Such images have compounded the sense of crisis.The violence has been carried out by forces loyal to Syria’s new president, Ahmed al-Sharaa. Al-Sharaa, who lacks international credentials and is perceived by some as a jihadist figure, has quickly become a source of both moral and strategic concern for Israeli policymakers. While some argue the killings reflect decentralised militias acting independently, the broader implications for Israel’s security posture and diplomatic strategy are clear.This broader context may explain Israel’s decision to intervene militarily. Although Israel has no formal relationship with the Druze across the border, it has a deep, enduring bond with its own Druze citizens – roughly 150,000 in number. These citizens are not just integrated but often serve at the very heart of Israeli society and national defence. Druze Israelis have long volunteered for the IDF, often serving in elite combat units, special forces, and leadership roles. Their loyalty and bravery have been recognised and respected across Israeli society. Many have paid the ultimate price, including during the Hamas-led attack on 7 October 2023, when Druze fighters were among the first to mobilise and defend Israeli communities. That day, described by some as a national reckoning, also proved a moment of profound solidarity between the Jewish and Druze populations of Israel – reaffirming a relationship built on shared sacrifice and mutual respect.'

John Hawkes ● 49d

Mr Hawkes. Firstly, perhaps "request politely" rather than "expect" a response - a lesson in how to gain friends and influence people? :-) Sudan does appear to have been reported in the BBC link you posted? And I have seen/heard other items in the past. I obviously don't have inside knowledge as to how or why news organisations decide what to report so I can only guess. As I indicated in previous post, I suspect it's done on a basis of what news items will be of interest to viewers, listened or readers? Perhaps, because Israel is an ally that the UK government provides with arms whereas Sudan isn't, that's a basis for prioritising Israel in news items? But as I say, that's purely a guess based on my perception of the situation; given it's obviously of great interest to you and you've obviously looked at it in more detail than me, why do you think Israel appears more in news reports? Aside from MSM, I've recently noticed a lot of anti-Israeli posts, particularly coming from the US, on social media. Perhaps Iranian or Russian - or even North Korean - cyber agents are manipulating social media algorithms, which I believe they're acknowledged as being expert in, and that, in a roundabout way, is influencing public opinion and what MSM cover? To be honest, I've not seen much about Sudan or other African conflicts on social media (although Ukraine does get coverage).I look forward to you analysis when you've time, I expect you're glued to the tennis this weekend? Enjoy.

Michael Ixer ● 54d

Mr Ixer,Very confused argument, wandering all over the place.I was referring to a BBC News item regarding racial and religious genocide in Sudan TODAY and unlike were the perpetrator to be Israel, no one on this Forum bats an eyelid let alone condemns it.You make no mention of this incident but instead bang on about Russia and the Ukraine where the wrongs and the perpetrators of them are perfectly clear and no one thinks other wise.You are good at such diversionary tactics.You seem to claim that being a close ally of ours is the reason Israel gains so much (negative) attention.IE we expect better of them and to behave 'like us' and assume they, 'like us', should not retaliate to attacks.I hope we would not be so feeble and cowardly were we to become victims of Islamism.Yes it is likely 'more people in the UK have relatives in Palestine than other areas of conflict so it gets a higher profile'.Why is that ?What brings them here if they feel unwelcome and subject to racial attacks ?But also there are many parts of the country where Islam predominates and sets the tone for how Palestinian, including Hamas', actions and attitudes are perceived.Positively.There are also many Jews in the UK peacefully going about their daily lives and not 'marching for freedom' every Saturday.So why do they only get attacked and not sympathised with ?And if Palestinians don't like it here, what's to stop them returning to the West Bank ?I concede Gaza is no longer a choice  but some how they messed that option up.

John Hawkes ● 55d