Forum Topic

Eurovision Song Contest

I am not sure I will be watching the Eurovision Song Contest tomorrow. Firstly I have had serious doubts over the impartiality of European voters ever since 1959.Then the UK's Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson singing 'Sing Little Birdie' were pushed into second place by the Netherlands with the song "Een beetje", performed by Teddy Scholten. A song (but who remembers it) ? with rather dubious moral undertones we have now come to expect from that country.But secondly the competition has been predictably sullied by the coming together of the influences of today's drumbeat political issues - the wickedness of Israel and gender politics."The current Eurovision champion (sic) has said they (he is a man so should be 'he') support the decision to ban Israel from the 2025 competition".Nemo Mettler won the song contest in 2024 on behalf of Switzerland with the song The Code.This song was described by Nemo as one that details their (his) experience with accepting their (his) non-binary identity. A song that must have gone down well in pubs, at parties and any other occasion for fun and jollity.'Ahead of last year, the singer joined critics in calling for a boycott of Eurovision if Israel’s Eden Golan was allowed to participate as the conflict in the Middle East continued to rage on.Nemo, who was the first openly non-binary (whatever this means) act to represent Switzerland in Eurovision, was one of nine acts who issued a group statement expressing solidarity with Palestine.This time around, the singer-rapper (sic) has once again objected to Israel’s participation."Israel’s actions are fundamentally at odds with the values that Eurovision claims to uphold — peace, unity, and respect for human rights."Obviously he has not read the Hamas Charter !Views undoubtedly Gary Lineker would endorse as he also once lobbied to get Israel banned from international football competition.Why is a song competition so politicised and life in general so dulled by issues much over stressed both in importance and the public's acceptance of them ?Lulu, Sandie, "Brotherhood of Man" and "Buck's Fizz" with your naughty skirt pulling routine  - where are you now when we so need you, surrounded as we are by so many miserabilists ?

John Hawkes ● 75d18 Comments

Mr IxerI started this thread pointing out how a piece of entertainment fluff that millions of ordinary people enjoy seems to have been politicised by the only issues that some  acknowledge as being important at the moment- the 'plight' of the Palestinians and 'trans rights'------------------------------------------"I am not sure I will be watching the Eurovision Song Contest tomorrow.Firstly I have had serious doubts over the impartiality of European voters ever since 1959.Then the UK's Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson singing 'Sing Little Birdie' were pushed into second place by the Netherlands with the song "Een beetje", performed by Teddy Scholten.A song (but who remembers it) ? with rather dubious moral undertones we have now come to expect from that country.But secondly the competition has been predictably sullied by the coming together of the influences of today's drumbeat political issues - the wickedness of Israel and gender politics."The current Eurovision champion (sic) has said they (he is a man so should be 'he') support the decision to ban Israel from the 2025 competition".Nemo Mettler won the song contest in 2024 on behalf of Switzerland with the song The Code.This song was described by Nemo as one that details their (his) experience with accepting their (his) non-binary identity.A song that must have gone down well in pubs, at parties and any other occasion for fun and jollity.'Ahead of last year, the singer joined critics in calling for a boycott of Eurovision if Israel’s Eden Golan was allowed to participate as the conflict in the Middle East continued to rage on.Nemo, who was the first openly non-binary (whatever this means) act to represent Switzerland in Eurovision, was one of nine acts who issued a group statement expressing solidarity with Palestine.This time around, the singer-rapper (sic) has once again objected to Israel’s participation."Israel’s actions are fundamentally at odds with the values that Eurovision claims to uphold — peace, unity, and respect for human rights."Obviously he has not read the Hamas Charter !Views undoubtedly Gary Lineker would endorse as he also once lobbied to get Israel banned from international football competition. (Poor old Gary. Sacked by the BBC without a payoff for spouting what some took to be anti-semitism. Why would anyone think a footballer has any more insight on the Middle East conflict than anyone else ? What does Micah Richards think of our EU negotiations or what are Ian Wright's views on the war in Sudan ?)Why is a song competition so politicised and life in general so dulled by issues much over stressed both in importance and the public's acceptance of them ?Lulu, Sandie, "Brotherhood of Man" and "Buck's Fizz" with your naughty skirt pulling routine  - where are you now when we so need you, surrounded as we are by so many miserabilists" ?-----------------------------------------------------------What riled me about Nemo's comment were the fact that he tried to to prevent Israel's contestant (a woman who had suffered awfully even you might agree, at the hands of the Palestinians) whilst equating her treatment with his - not being given sufficient sympathy for his claimed (in both senses) 'gender' persecution.Surely even you don't show such equivocation regarding the two offences ?I am not upset by his sexuality.He can call himself a transvestite, trans-sexual (impossible without surgery), bisexual (anatomical definition please ?) or even a bicycle just as long as he keeps his views clear of young children who will not understand.There is a difference between the wrong use of a pronoun ('they' instead of he/she) which renders a sentence meaningless and a change of meaning of an adjective as social norms evolve.Thanks for your attempts at making my life more light-hearted.Not gaslighting then.

John Hawkes ● 72d

I wasn't entering into a discussion about Nemo other than indicating many artists adopt single names - as far as I'm concerned their sexuality isn't really any of my business but I guess they don't identity as male or female. If that upsets you that's your issue not mine.I suppose "they" is a change in use of the word but English is a living language - words such as "gay", "wicked" have been used with alternative meanings and I belive you have used the modified version of the word "woke" in the past. I don't find it confusing, one can usually work out the meaning from its context.Anyway,  I thought your original discussion was with the other Michael, Mr Brigo; I thought your questions were for him.I was just trying to inject some lightheartedness into the discussion; does anyone really care about Eurovision or take it very seriously. To be honest I've only been diving in and skimming posts occasionally during the past few days as I've been in the EU and entertaining a visitor from the US, and most of the time the GUI version of this website, which I use from my phone, has been inaccessible.Anyway. I'm busy now, so signing of for now :-)

Michael Ixer ● 72d

Mr Ixer'Mr Hawkes,  I was referring to Ms Corry Brokken and your reference to HIS albums - I forgot to put her Wikipedia link in my first post, lookfor my second :-)If you can't be bothered to answer the responses to the issues you raised I certainly am not going to be dragged along by your web crawling.

John Hawkes ● 72d

Mr Hawkes, I was referring to Ms Corry Brokken and your reference to HIS albums - I forgot to put her Wikipedia link in my first post, lookfor my second :-)

Michael Ixer ● 72d

Mr IxerRef Nemo'Mr Hawkes.  Her Wikipedia site doesn't say anything about her transition to male! :-)In a Huff Post article the singer is referred to by the term 'they' (even though they are a solo singer).In the Metro the Swiss singer and rapper who conquered Eurovision 2024 with their song The Code, describes it as detailing the realisation they were non-binary.‘The Code is about the journey I started with the realisation that I am neither a man nor a woman. Finding myself has been a long and often difficult process for me. But nothing feels better than the freedom I have gained by realising that I am non-binary,’ they said at the time'.I find this a little confusing.Is this performer a male or a female ?Does being 'non-binary' mean you are neither or both ?You have made clear your scientific background so can you explain the anatomical attributes of a 'non-binary' person ?And to preserve the integrity of the English language should a 'non-binary' person be described as 'he' or 'she' ?Surely not 'they' as that word describes a group of more than one does it not.'"Curioser and curioser" said Alice ! (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English'.A direction in which we seem to be being taken by the 'trans' movement !

John Hawkes ● 72d

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corry_Brokken

Michael Ixer ● 72d

Mr Hawkes.  Her Wikipedia site doesn't say anything about her transition to male! :-)

Michael Ixer ● 72d

Mr Robinson"Net als toen" (Just like then) sung by Corry Brokken."What a song and what a singer !I've got all his albums !🤔

John Hawkes ● 72d

The UK was competing in the Eurovision before we joined the EU or shall I call it the common market."Eurovision 1957: Patricia Bredin. After not participating in the first year, Patricia Bredin entered Eurovision as the UK's first ever entry into the contest. She finished 7th with 6 points for the UK. Losing to the Netherlands' 31 points song "Net als toen" (Just like then) sung by Corry Brokken."

Ed Robinson ● 73d

Nemo is a name:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_(name)I suppose it's similar to having a stage name such as 'Lulu', 'Sting', 'Cher', 'Madonna', etc?Didn't we vote to leave Eurovision in 2016 ...

Michael Ixer ● 73d

Not much to say because I couldn't be arsed to watch it last night but have caught up today by watching the newsworthy acts.  Congratulations indeed to Yuval, a beautiful song sung beautifully by a very brave and beautiful lady.👏🏻Nemo - is that his birth name or did he change it after watching his favourite Disney film?  As for his gender pro-noun I have solved the dilemma ~ this individual and all others of a similar ilk, I shall use the pro-noun "it"British entry ~ crap song and presentation and deserved its nul points.

Sue Hammond ● 73d

Ms Grant'Many many congratulations to Yuval for not only her beautiful singing but also her immense bravery on October 7th 2023 and subsequent performance where protestors tried to disrupt her.And many thanks to the British public for their votes for her. She received the highest public vote in Eurovision history'.A timely reminder (from the Indie online) that 'Yuval Raphael, 24, was among the festival attendees who attempted to flee the carnage as rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel and Hamas gunmen began shooting at revellers.She was one of just 11 survivors from a group of around 50 people who took refuge in a concrete bomb shelter on the side of the road – she hid under a pile of dead bodies for eight hours until she and the other survivors were rescued'.Those protesting against her and attempting to prevent her performing were of course downtrodden and persecuted Palestinians who have the means to live in or travel to Switzerland, a country with a very high cost of living, and doubtless support Hamas.And though I have not followed the contest I would suggest the support and votes she received from the British public are indicative of where it stands in Israel's battle for survival against Islamic terrorist attacks.In answer to my own question as to whether an Islamic woman would ever be allowed to perform at the Eurovision Song Contest it seems that according to Ikram Hawramani's Website - https://hawramani.com/'According to a fatwa by the respected Egyptian scholar Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi (president of the International Union of Muslim Scholars), women are permitted to be singers in Islam provided that Islam’s other commandments are respected. For example, singing songs that promote un-Islamic and immoral things is not permitted.(They presumably they would be allowed to sing in the promotion of their own bisexuality as did last year's winner Nemo – who is non-binary – and said they 'managed to “smuggle” a non-binary Pride flag into the arena to hold on stage'. He recently called for Israel to be banned from this years competition. Further, is bisexulity a recognised concept in Islam or, as is now the legal position in the UK, does it believe there are only two sexes - male and female ?).Many other scholars prohibit women from singing even though there is no clear Quranic or hadith text that forces such a prohibition. Their prohibition is based on general considerations. They believe that it is a danger to a woman’s moral character if she sings, since men may be attracted to her voice and since singing often involves dealing with many male strangers who work in studios'.

John Hawkes ● 73d

Many many congratulations to Yuval for not only her beautiful singing but also her immense bravery on October 7th 2023 and subsequent performance where protestors tried to disrupt her.And many thanks to the British public for their votes for her. She received the highest public vote in Eurovision history.

Lucille Grant ● 73d

The strategy employed by those who wish to promote woke ideology, whether on gender or race, is to denigrate objectors as ‘obsessed’ or ‘divisive’.

Steven Rose ● 73d

Mr Brigo'My question was, why are you so seemingly terrified by their choice of personal pro-nouns?'I am neither terrified nor particularly offended by someone else's choice of personal pronouns.But the fact is I believe that words and their meaning are important and that we cannot properly communicate and society will mis-function if we deviate from accepted definitions.If someone is a male by the generally understood and now legal definition of such then they should be referred to with words such as he/him/his.I do not see that they are in anyway demeaned or insulted by this.They of course can refer to themself by any term they like without prejudice.Even though the use of plural terms (they/their) to describe a singular individual is semantic and philological  nonsense.But such 'gender' based self referral need not be accepted by the rest of us and those that do so certainly cannot complain if they are misunderstood. Because for the normal function of society (ie the preservation of protected spaces especially regarding children or the imprisonment of offenders for example) the legal and majority accepted definition of the sexes must apply. Why is this controversial especially to someone like you who I take to have had a scientific and rational education ? Of course there are more important issues to worry about.So why do those that put the importance of 'gender' over sex not take the same position as you and I and stop banging on about the topic ?

John Hawkes ● 74d

Actually I dont disagree with you regarding the politics of the Eurovision song contest. My question was, why are you so seemingly terrified by their choice of personal pro-nouns? You seem to be dreadfully offended by someone else's personal choices and I can't help but think really there are more important things in the world to worry about.

Michael Brigo ● 74d

Morning Mr Brigo'Are Hamas participating then?'Genuine question: What terrifies you so much about Nemo Mettler that you feel you have to stick your beak into their personal life?' Because he is leading an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish campaign in what is meant to be a non-political programme of light entertainment.A man seeming to claim (I presume from his adopted tax-light country that is Switzerland) that he has suffered as much 'because of prejudice resulting from his claimed gender(s)' as a young woman who was kidnapped and brutalised by the brave balaclava wearing Palestinian boyos in Hamas.As a result, to get back to the nub of the issue, he calls for HER to be banned !If in this context he kept his hackneyed, racist and misogynistic opinions to himself no response would be necessary. 'I mean really, what difference does it make to you?Because his comments politicise and sully what is meant to be an event to bring people together.But ultimately and more important it is a moral question of 'right' or 'wrong'; 'good' or 'evil'.And also both issues and those like you and he that promote them, are I am afraid to say predictable, tedious and boring.Regarding Hamas participating, this was meant to be hyperbole which obviously went over your head.However perhaps you could confirm whether the Islamic religion would allow Muslim women to participate in such a competition.Remember one is ultimately judged by which side one takes over issues whose description can be boiled down to 'good' or 'evil'. Make your mind up Mr Brigo.

John Hawkes ● 74d

"Obviously he has not read the Hamas Charter"Are Hamas participating then?Genuine question: What terrifies you so much about Nemo Mettler that you feel you have to stick your beak into their personal life? I mean really, what difference does it make to you?Oh, that was two questions! oh well.

Michael Brigo ● 75d