Forum Topic

What's the difference ? Thatcher closing the pits or Starmer closing Grangemouth.

Mrs Thatcher was pilloried beyond measure when she insisted state owned and loss making coal mines should be closed down with a consequent loss of jobs.Today, the Labour Government seems to be taking no preventative steps to stop the closure of Scotland's only oil refinery which has stopped processing crude oil at Grangemouth after a century of operations, 'its owner Petroineos has confirmed'.Petroineos has said the refinery is loss-making and has rejected claims from unions that the site could easily transition into a hub for producing sustainable aviation fuel.But then moving towards a zero fossil fuel use economy is Labour's and Li'l Ed's strategy.Top Labour advisers are putting pressure on Sir Keir Starmer to ditch the party's ban on new North Sea oil and gas drilling.A handful of senior officials are understood to be quietly urging the PM to consider watering down or scrapping the manifesto pledge altogether. "STARMER, STARMER, STARMER: OUT, OUT, OUT

John Hawkes ● 74d11 Comments

Unfortunately Ivonne there's not many nations we haven't gone to war with.I've lost count at the number of countries that the UK considered good or bad only to change a few years later.Almost every country I can think of has a regional trade deal. The fact the UK did not fallback to a Norway type deal just shows how bad our politicians are.Back to this government, which looks like it has lost another opportunity to address the high numbers of people that are economically inactive. With the economy now flat at best and employers cutting vacancies, high taxation and low services with continue.

Ed Robinson ● 71d

I know!!!But the oven ready deal let it go.......

Ivonne Holliday ● 71d

"There is no reason not to have a trade agreement with the EU. It is a very big and wealthy market next door to us!"Erm, we had that.

Michael Brigo ● 71d

Hello Michael,I think the move to India is a direct consequence of the China and US trade war.Yes, the EEC was mainly based on trade when it was created in 1957.  It evolved from its early creation to the EU.  There is no reason not to have a trade agreement with the EU. It is a very big and wealthy market next door to us!

Ivonne Holliday ● 71d

There's a clip somewhere on YouTube with Tim Cook explaining that the reason Apple outsourced to China wasn't to do only with cost but the availability of well trained technicians to run the operations. (Sorry I don't have a link.) I guess the same is true for outsourcing to India? Just look at China's space programme - they now have a space station that will undoubtedly outlive the ISS, they're  reating a satellite constellation to rival Musk's Starlink network, and with Trump and Musk's tampering with NASA we'll likely see a Chinese person on the Moon before the US get there.And, back to Europe,  was the originderlying aim of the EEC/EU that if you're linked by trade, finance, economy and freedom of movement you're less likely to go to war; a similar aim of the WTO?

Michael Ixer ● 71d

Hello Ed,Yes, during the 80s and onwards, outsourcing was the name of the game, the very one started by the US, with a view of reducing production costs.  After all, workers in the factories in China and India were (still are?) paid a pittance with virtually no labour laws.  So, basically, greed of monumental proportions was applauded by many over decades.Fast forward to today, Trump is "protesting" about outsourcing and the jobs must come back home.  Brilliant!  What does Apple do?  Moves the production line of iPhones from China to India!!  I do not think we do not trust Americans, we do not trust Trump. Because they are no longer woke???  Hmmmmmm  I think ensuring a trade agreement with Europe is fundamental!!!  An enormous wealthy market next door!  Jumping into bed with the Germans and the French after all we have never gone to war with them?  Wow, Ed, that is quite something! Selective memory perhaps? By the way, did you forget that the UK fought against the Americans in the American War of Independence?

Ivonne Holliday ● 71d

Blair's policies lost a lot of manufacturing jobs too with many going to China.Apparently one of the ways that Britain maintained the empire was by only allowing basic processing of raw materials by colonies such as what was called Burma in those days.Decades on from Thatcher and son of, the same people are now telling us that we need to treat the Chinese as enemies and we can't trust their manufactured goods.For some illogical reason the Globalists now think that the Chinese may attack their own markets that they now dominate.They are also telling us that we can't trust the Americans either because they are no longer woke, having bought nuclear weapons from them.Still we can jump into bed with the Germans & French after all we have never gone to war with them have we :)

Ed Robinson ● 72d

Mr BrigoA history lesson.The mines were once privately owned and were then nationalised.The government could then within the constraints of Parliament do on our behalf what it wanted with them.Yes Grangemouth is privately owned but the Labour Government  could nationalise it should it want to keep it running.Just as I think is the option for the threatened closure of steelworks at Scunthorpe and Port Talbot (though I think there is a plan to reopen the latter in 2028).Apart from the colour of the rosette, what's the difference ?

John Hawkes ● 72d

If the government hide those made unemployed from the unemployment figures by putting them on other benefits then there would be little difference.Perhaps this government is a little more transparent - as years later it was shown as suspected, that the Thatcher government's intention was to close all coal mines.Starmer is probably the most hawkish Western leaders. I'm not sure how he and his supporters square the pro-war with the inability to manufacture and process basic materials not to mention the economics of importing goods from countries that you are at the same time sanctioning.

Ed Robinson ● 74d

Now that Saint Tone has steamed in and effectively said that Mad Ed's hysterical race to Net Zero is a crap policy and should be rethought, perhaps Starmer can find a way of keeping it open and using it in a more productive way?

Sue Hammond ● 74d

Well you answered your own question really, one was state owned and one is private.That was easy.

Michael Brigo ● 74d