Forum Topic

The Nursing Shortage

Channel 4’s opening item is the shortage of nurses.  Surely it’s time to scrap tuition fees for student nurses and midwives?

Martine Guy ● 15d13 Comments

"3 years ago, Kingston, excellent.  11yrs ago not so."Glad to hear things were better 3 years ago than 11 years ago.My impression, which goes against the narrative, is that there has been improvements in many hospitals. I'm not saying they are great now, I'm just saying some things were really bad in the past. When Labour shut Queen Mary's hospital, Kingston was not prepared for the increase and took a long time to recover. Budgets for improvements to Kingston didn't come until many years later. Just like any organization improvements can take years.Question is will Labour, having killed economic growth and more interested in pursuing State assisted suicide, put the resources political and budgetary into solve the staffing issues?Recommended pay increases of 2.8% will probably not even cover increased heating bills.I doubt the new government will address the underlying issues, they will as always take the short term options.

Ed Robinson ● 13d

Shocking Barbara.I'm not sure how upto date the Care quality commission rating are.It seems that some basics such as having a clean environment have been forgotten.The costs (financial and human) of picking up infections in hospitals must be enormous.My last visit (not for myself) I noticed that some of the people waiting did not respect the environment whilst waiting and we're also rude to the staff. Thankfully children's A&E is separate and the staff on my recent visits were excellent.Looking at surroundings hospitals with dates all over the place this seems to be the last rating:St George's - needing improvement.Chelsea and Westminster - OutstandingKingston - goodQueen Mary's - needing improvementCharing Cross - requires improvement https://www.cqc.org.uk/location/RJ701/reports

Ed Robinson ● 13d

Apart from training for nursing, perhaps they should check and see if they actually can deal with patients and children. Because some night staff have been darn right rude. One came on her night shift and was really dreadful to one of the other nurses screaming and shouting at her. On another occasion 4 young nurses were standing around the curtain while the doctor was checking on a patient and an elderly lady of about 98 wanted a commode they didn't have a clue what it was I had to explain. When I was put on one ward as a patient they didn't even have any jugs of water. Young nurses may be trained as a nurse, but how many have actually left home and learnt to even look after themselves.  One nurse because I complained there was blood in the sink and on the toilet told me she would give me something to wipe it, I'm a patient not my job.  But a few days later a young lady who was on drugs had some blood taken and the nurse caught her own finger on needle and ran to the sink squeezing and washing her finger. Obviously afraid she had caught something. Well Karma expecting a patient to clean the sink and toilet.

Barbara Stevens ● 13d

At the end of the day if pay & conditions are poor you are not going to attract or retain people.You can come up with all sorts of stuff but as soon as someone settles it needs to be a wage that pays the rent, bills, child care costs etc.Then for shift work people need transport.At the end of the day people and the government will clap but clapping doesn't pay the bills!

Ed Robinson ● 13d

They had to institute "rounding" to check whether anybody needed anything.  It became another tick box exercise.https://www.britishjournalofnursing.com/content/editorial/intentional-rounding/

Philippa Bond ● 13d

I agree, Marcus. Does anyone remember when nurses were either SEN (State Enrolled Nurses) or SRN (State Registered Nurses)?  Why do all nurses need a degree?  Maybe a return to the old system would be a good idea?

Martine Guy ● 14d

Central to the shortage of nurses in the UK was the disastrous policy of the Royal College of Nursing under its recent American chief executive - who insisted all nurses had to have a nursing 'degree' - which strangled the normal, natural flow of caring people into the profession, which has in turn never recovered. Those 'degrees' just turned nurses into 'machine monitors', less into observant, caring people.

Marcus Gibson ● 14d

You need to have better working conditions.  They leave for better working conditions not just better pay.  Hospital buildings with sewage dripping through the ceilings and acroprops propping up the ceilings are an unneeded added stress in their work of trying to keep their patients and themselves safe re infection control and in accelerating improvements in health and wellbeing.

Philippa Bond ● 14d

I believe there is also a difficulty retaining NHS nursing staff.  Where do they go, the private sector or abroad?  Maybe  nurses and midwives should have their tuition fees cancelled only after they have worked in the NHS for an agreed number of years after getting their qualifications?

Martine Guy ● 14d

There do seem to be bursaries for nurses now but whether that is adequate is something else.  It was known that there was going to be a need because the last cohort of nursing staff who had bursaries was reaching the end of their working life.  Nursing works for everyone best when there is a good working environment and good teamwork.  Many nurses retired at retirement age, they had endured the pandemic without enough PPE and having to work under pressure and understaffed.  They spend a lot of time on their feet and they may need to pay more attention to THEIR OWN health and welfare but in their own working role they give their time, overtime and attention to everyone else first.  I'd be interested to know how many need knee replacements on retirement when otherwise they would be happy to share their expertise for longer.

Philippa Bond ● 14d

I would have to agree.When issues like these go on for decades it's hard not to conclude it is by design or they just do not care.

Ed Robinson ● 14d

Hello Martine,Your suggestion seems to be a good one to draw people into nursing and midwifery.Sadly, I do not think it is going to happen any time soon... :-(

Ivonne Holliday ● 15d

Sorry should have typed Channel 4 News’s opening item.

Martine Guy ● 15d