Forum Topic

Trump's Plan For Gaza

I just listened to the most extraordinary live press conference between Trump  and Netanyahu Trump says US will take over Gaza Strip with troops 'if necessary'The US will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it too,' he said at a press conference alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. President Donald Trump outlined an extraordinary new plan for the Middle East on Tuesday, with the United States taking control of the war-torn Gazastrip while its Palestinian population is moved to neighboring countries.It is the latest evolution in his plan for rebuilding a territory devastated by Israeli bombardment.His words will sow fear in the Palestinian population but Trump insisted it was time for a new way of thinking and promised to build 'the Riviera of the Middle East.''The US will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it too,' he said at a press conference alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. 'We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site ... level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings.'https://mol.im/a/14361277

Sue Hammond ● 93d79 Comments

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/give-chagos-islands-to-trump-ex-army-chief-urges-as-he-lays-into-starmer-s-deal/ar-AA1yT51x?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Philippa Bond ● 84d

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/28/un-court-rejects-uk-claim-to-chagos-islands-in-favour-of-mauritiusI understood that the various islands had different peoples living on them.  So they don't all want Mauritius to have control either.

Philippa Bond ● 84d

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55848126UN Court orders UK to hand back Chagos Islands.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/28/un-court-rejects-uk-claim-to-chagos-islands-in-favour-of-mauritius

Philippa Bond ● 84d

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/mauritius-prime-minister-pravind-jugnauth-chagos-islands-india-pm-modi-transfer-uk-2611622-2024-10-05?utm_source=rss

Philippa Bond ● 84d

We may be way off topic but seem to be finding some agreement on something  🙂

Michael Ixer ● 87d

This thread reminds me of Chinese Whispers. Fascinating how we have gone from Trump’s plan for Gaza to vegan shoes! Having said that, I totally support both your views on the overuse of plastic. I confess to being a hypocrite with regard to shoes and bags. I don’t eat meat- meat production is very wasteful of the earth’s resources- but I find leather shoes just more comfortable. However I will look into vegan shoes again.

Jane Carter ● 87d

Mr Ixer'Would I do that :-) An example of apple skin leather shoes'Thanks for this.A very commendable and interesting initiative.I just hope the effort to take apple waste and turn it into material is in itself eco-friendly.I am fully with you on the mis- and overuse of plastics.I think this is caused by a reluctance of supermarkets to employ an adequate number of staff and so everything is prepacked to be taken off the shelf and also we buy so much other 'stuff'.Putting it in plastic containers so we can take a sample from a pile is again cost effective regarding staff costs.

John Hawkes ● 87d

I'm not sure I follow the connection and I do not believe getting out of Afghanistan was a bear trap.The Chagos Islands is another real estate deal but as we often see the rules people apply to other countries do not apply to the UK.With Trump the ceasefire has a chance but it's not guaranteed. Of all the candidates Trump was the best choice for peace. Definitely not a perfect choice or even a neutral choice but a lot better than the UK's choice!

Ed Robinson ● 88d

The Chagos Islands deal was initiated although perhaps not totally finalised (or there wouldn't still be so much discussion) by the Tory Party when they were in Govt. A similar type of thing was organised and left by Donald Trump for Joe Biden over Afghanistan.  It looks like some kind of bear trap set for an incoming administration.

Philippa Bond ● 88d

Yes, but not just Israel - the US, Trump and the UK.Gas & oil the stuff wars are made out of. Well if coups etc fail

Ed Robinson ● 88d

Yes, Ed, but as yet they've not been exploited, money won't come in for a while, and some think Israel is trying to annex them so there's no guarantee Palestinians will benefit from them.https://www.newarab.com/analysis/israel-sets-its-sights-gazas-offshore-gas

Michael Ixer ● 88d

"I was referring to Gaza's lacking oil not Iran's. "No oil but gas,"hese fields are estimated to contain over 1 trillion cubic feet of gas. That gas could go to Europe and could decimate what’s left of Russia’s gas supply to Europe. What’s left is largely LNG. The Palestinian Authority has wanted to move this project ahead for decades, but Hamas’ control over Gaza has made that nearly impossible. Now, Trump wants to skip ahead and take ownership of Gaza, but the gains would not go to the Palestinians, who would be evicted to Jordan and/or Egypt. That attempt is fodder for a wider regional war."https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Natural-Gas-Piece-of-Trumps-Controversial-Gaza-Plan.html

Ed Robinson ● 88d

Mr Hawkes, Would I do that :-) An example of apple skin leather shoes:https://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/all_products/fanatic_sneaker_black/20097_p.htmlI missed a couple of materials: microfiber and rubber (which can be used for soles). On a broader point, I  think weaning human society off plastics is impossible,  they have benefits. The major problem is single use plastics and inadequate recycling. 

Michael Ixer ● 88d

Mr Ixer'I have a smart pair (of shoes) made from apple skins'Please confirm I am not being lead down the garden path by you.If I am I concede you have made a good job of making me look foolish by taking your comments at face value.🍎😁Well done 👍BTW it has always seemed to me perfectly reasonable and honourable for those believing wearing leather or fur is symptomatic of animal cruelty and refuse to do so.I take a more utilitarian view.After farmers have delivered to Sainsburys ribeye steaks for me and millions of others, what should they do with the left over skins.Don't waste it - recycle into shoes !

John Hawkes ● 88d

"Well Trump himself now just seems to be looking at the whole of the rest of the world as real estate deals to be argued over."Says the person who's government is paying for the Chagos Islands to be given away without even consulting those that were removed from it.

Ed Robinson ● 88d

Mr Hawkes, I didn't make that clear. I was referring to Gaza's lacking oil not Iran's. In anser to you other area lacking know: not all vegan shoes are made from plastics. That was probably true ~20 years ago. Obviously,  a primary concern of vegans is the cruelty and corruption in the meat industry. (Remember the BSE problem they caused and reentering condemned horse meat into the food chain, and not forgettingfactory farming?) But, obviously, there are other environmental considerations which is why many other materials - cloth, hemp, cork, organic material (I have a smart pair made from apple skins) - are now used along with an increasing amout of recycled plastic - plenty of that. The manufacturers have been rapidly reducing the amount of hydrocarbon products used although, yes, polyurethane is still an element in many, particularly smart work style shoes. One sometimes has to be pragmatic and look at what one considers the less desirable negative when living in the real world. It's amusing watching idiots say "but you're wearing leather shoes" then pointing out "but they're not" :-)You may have noticed a delay in my posts recently. That's because I've been immersed in Astrofest listening to mainly professional scientist alongside other sensible people. Very refreshing ...

Michael Ixer ● 88d

Well Trump himself now just seems to be looking at the whole of the rest of the world as real estate deals to be argued over.I've been aware of Daniella Weiss's activities for quite some while... but I'd wouldn't say I was at all drawn to her.

Philippa Bond ● 88d

Mr Ixer,'Yes, the UAE and Dubai have developed themselves - but they do have oil money which they've made good use of'."Proven oil reserves in Iran, according to its government, rank fourth largest in the world at approximately as of 2013, although it ranks third if Canadian reserves of unconventional oil are excluded. This is roughly 10% of the world's total proven petroleum reserves. At 2020 rates of production, Iran's oil reserves would last 145 years if no new oil was found".Ironically this sums up the attitude of most other Arab states.They have the resources to turn themselves into wealthy democratic states but to put it crudely 'they can't be arsed'.Better to play the downtrodden and oppressed whilst committing terrorism against those who subscribe to a more positive western way of life.BTW where did the plastic come from for your vegan shoes ?!👞👞

John Hawkes ● 88d

Iran does seem very unstable - one wonders if the current theocracy will break down at some stage but it can't be guaranteed that would result in a democracy. Different to judge as all the Iranians I've met or known don't live there. Yes, the UAE and Dubai have developed themselves - but they do have oil money which they've made good use of; the UAE even has a space programme with a Mars orbiter :-) However, I think they're very restrictive - for example, my understanding is all internet traffic is filtered or censored by the state - but I can think of one acquaintance who prefers to live in the UAE rather than their own country, Iran.

Michael Ixer ● 89d

'What am I? Your PA?'Please - who would hire you ?You make ridiculous claims over what you say people have said or believe but then cannot find the documentary evidence to back it up.Your file management is appalling.Still you can probably find your way to Cafe Nero so get me a flat white and a croissant.

John Hawkes ● 89d

What am I? Your PA?

Michael Brigo ● 89d

No thanks. She sounds bonkers. No wonder you are drawn to her ...🙄

Sue Hammond ● 89d

Mr BrigoYou state 'your (mine) own words' as evidence of my support for ethnic cleansing.Please repost them for me and others to read.

John Hawkes ● 89d

Mr Ixer'would the Iranians leave a Gaza Riviera in peace?'Probably not initially as Iran is a fascist, theocratic, misogynistic, Islamist dictatorship where pleasure is frowned upon.However there do seem to be stirrings of revolt against these grey bearded old men, often lead by women.Though unfortunately I understand they are often soon 'disappeared'.But actions and support, both political and economic from a bold President Trump might see regime change.As regards Gaza as a prosperous seaboard resort and business centre, we should recall how Dubai and the rest of the UAE have been transformed from dusty backwaters to thriving political entities.

John Hawkes ● 89d

Mr BrigoYou state ''And there you have it, John Hawkes openly supports ethnic cleansing'When asked for evidential proof all you can say is 'Your own words'.So you can produce no evidence for this defamatory staement and as usual rely on childish playground insult.I now feel obliged to put the matter in the hands of my solicitors Messrs Sue, Grabbitt and Runne.

John Hawkes ● 89d

Incorrect, I said 'your own words' - just try reading them back instead of spouting off endlessly.

Michael Brigo ● 90d

There's plenty of info on her and I see that she is suggesting that Scotland may make a good home for Palestinians.  Perhaps that is the American owned golf course?

Philippa Bond ● 90d

Mr Ixer'So you're resigned to probably more decades of desth? How depressing'.You are right, it is depressing and I am 'resigned to it' only in the context of the Hamas Palestinians maintaining a position of not recognising Israel and seeking to annihilate it thus leaving leaving Israel no option than being prepared and willing to defend itself.No advancement till the Palestinians change their position.On another matter I am intrigued by the concept of a Vegan shoe.Is it made of plastic and if so what is the plastic derived from ?

John Hawkes ● 90d

'And there you have it, John Hawkes openly supports ethnic cleansing'When asked for evidential proof all you can say is 'Your own words'.What you are saying is that you have no evidence that I support 'ethnic cleansing' - a defamatory statement that might put you in trouble legally with regard to discrimination under the Equality Act of 2010.But I won't pursue this route for I have come to the conclusion that you are a bear of very little brain.No discrimination against bears intended.More to be pitied than taken seriously.

John Hawkes ● 90d

Your own words.

Michael Brigo ● 90d

As I  said, Mr Hawkes, probably an unrealistic and too "out of the box" idea! So you're resigned to probably more decades of desth? How depressing. And, yes, I've regularly used Amazon for a long time because of price, convenience, etc. Although, for some purchases I like to visit high quality, niche retailers such as Vegetarian Shoes in Brighton (before you ask, they're actually Vegan but have kept their long established brand). I don't think I've moaned about shops closing, although I may have commented on it?

Michael Ixer ● 90d

Mr Ixer'Perhaps if Israel offered to assist rebuilding Gaza as part of implementing a Palestinian state, would that help winning peace - a sort of hearts and minds offer? Ok, possibly not realistic, too "out of the box"? :-('Why would Israel want to help rebuild Gaza which we all know is a lawless entity undemocratically run by a gang of Islamist terrorists who from this territory launched a genocidal attack on Israel last October.What makes you think such a gesture would be well received by them and cause a change of attitude towards the state of Israel which it does not recognise and whose Charter calls for the latter's annihilation ?I am afraid this war will run for a long time.Israel I have no doubt has the technology, military strength, general societal cohesion and support of powerful Western allies including the UK to survive.Hamas 'popular' support is much derived from coercion.They certainly do not provide the Palestinians with much of a life nor prospects of a better future.It has to depend upon racist and fascist states like Iran and Syria; backward and reluctant ones like Egypt and Jordan; or Saudi for whom getting off the fence or leaving their Park Lane mansions or casinos to get their hands dirty is total anathema. Totally off the point, I would claim Amazon is just a step forward in retail commerce.Just as were supermarkets.Most people and I take the liberty of including you, find the choice offered and speed of fulfilment exactly what they want.

John Hawkes ● 90d

'And there you have it, John Hawkes openly supports ethnic cleansing'"M'lud.My client Mr Hawkes would like to hear from Mr Brigo what evidence he will be providing to support this defamatory statement".

John Hawkes ● 90d

"I believe they have that right!"

Ed Robinson ● 91d

Sue Hammond ● 91d

I think I can help you, John. Daniela Weiss is a well known right wing extremist who has been arrested several times in Israel for obstruction and other misdemeanors. Supporters of the Palestinians love to quote her because she confirms all their prejudices about Israel. I think it is fair to say that the majority of Israelis do not share her views.

Steven Rose ● 91d

"Can you point out where this is stated in the Labour Manifesto and any election material of President Trump ?"As I said:"Some people will pretend otherwise but they are either kidding themselves or listening and believing words whilst ignoring actions"Actions not words.

Ed Robinson ● 91d

Mr Hawkes, I'm not against "out of the box" ideas - they sometimes bring about ways of improving on traditional ways of doing things. In the areas I'm interested in I'm sure people like Alan Sugar, Bill Gates, Elon Musk and the late Steve Jobs have improved various aspects of IT, communications, space flight, etc, and I've no real issue that they've used their ideas to make money. But many ideas fail - who remembers the dot com failures of the early 2000s? I do, however, have concerns that this one won't work and that the motives are solely in US rather than Palestinian interests - ok, that's my cynical nature as the idea follows on from a desire to acquire Canada, Greenland and the Panama canal. And sometimes great ideas have adverse effects - many on this site bemoan the demise of local shops which is probably a result of the success of internet shopping spearhead by Bezos and Amazon.Viewing the hostage releases it looks like Hamas haven't been defeated, and unfortunately I suspect the constant bombardments of Palestinians may have generated more support for them, which I think I feared a while ago was likely to be the result. No, I don't have a better idea but the Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians and, probably most importantly, Saudis don't seem too keen on the idea, and would the Iranians leave a Gaza Riviera in peace? Perhaps if Israel offered to assist rebuilding Gaza as part of implementing a Palestinian state, would that help winning peace - a sort of hearts and minds offer? Ok, possibly not realistic, too "out of the box"? :-(

Michael Ixer ● 91d

Avoided answering the question then. Situation normal.

Michael Brigo ● 91d

And there you have it, John Hawkes openly supports ethnic cleansing

Michael Brigo ● 91d

'The link reference gives you an idea.  I'm not going to paraphrase the article for you.  This lady is well known in Israel'.Oh go on, just a couple of sentences will do.Just like my granddaughter is asked to do by her primary school regarding her current reading book.This lady may be well known to you and those in Israel, but not to me.Again a couple of sentences describing who she is and what she is well known for.

John Hawkes ● 91d

'Mr Hawkes. Are you denying Kushner said that and don't you think Trump talks to and, given his "out of the box" ideas,  he might be influenced by family, particularly where he thinks there might be money to be made?'I dont deny it if it was published by a reputable source.But so what ?Do you not talk to your family and might they not have a little influence on your opinions (which I have to say are most firmly held and usually unwavering).'Out of the box' ideas I take to mean you disagree with them.Fair enough.Yet what is wrong with money being made out of a new approach to Gaza ?If only those terrorist Palestinians that control it spent less time on killing people and more time on devising and implementing ideas to bring wealth to those people they claim to be concerned about, then Gaza's inhabitants, the surrounding areas and the world in general would be a better place."Make love/money; not war" should be their and your slogan.And if you have better ideas for bringing about peace and prosperity to the area let's hear them and stop knocking others.

John Hawkes ● 91d

Dig a bit,some where Donald is jockeying for a Greenland-Gaza swap. Skiing and sun bathing in one package. And maybe room some where for a little golf course. No doubt next week if he has a moment the Donald will tell us how Panama fits in.

Hugh Thompson ● 91d

The link reference gives you an idea.  I'm not going to paraphrase the article for you.  This lady is well known in Israel.

Philippa Bond ● 91d

Mr Hawkes. Are you denying Kushner said that and don't you think Trump talks to and, given his "out of the box" ideas,  he might be influenced by family, particularly where he thinks there might be money to be made?

Michael Ixer ● 91d

'This has been going on for a while against the law.'What exactly is 'THIS' ?

John Hawkes ● 91d

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-settler-daniella-weiss-claims-settlement-scouting-visit-gazaThis has been going on for a while against the law.

Philippa Bond ● 91d

Ethnic cleansing, in his own words this morning"“The Gaza Strip would be turned over to the United States by Israel at the conclusion of fighting,” he wrote in a post on his Truth Social platform.He said the Palestinians in Gaza would have “already been resettled in far safer and more beautiful communities, with new and modern homes, in the region” and would “actually have a chance to be happy, safe, and free”.

Michael Brigo ● 91d

'Interesting article about Kushner's (Trump's son-in-law) views on Gaza from last March'.Tittle tattle from the Guardian, a once sensible liberal newspaper which would have in the past stood up for Israel under continuous threat of annihilation from a pretty barbaric enemy.

John Hawkes ● 91d

'Ethnic Cleansing of the Palestinians has been the existing policy of the UK & US government.'Now you are getting a bit silly.Can you point out where this is stated in the Labour Manifesto and any election material of President Trump ?

John Hawkes ● 91d

'Does that also mean you agree with the below, voted for by a majority of UN members in Sept 2024? I'm guessing not...'Whataboutary.I am not much aware of this resolution but - 1) from where should 'Israel comply with international law (which law is that ?) and withdraw its military forces', 2'The resolution also demands Israel allow all Palestinians displaced during the occupation to return to their place of origin and make reparation for the damage caused by its occupation."What is the 'place of origin of displaced Palestinians' ?Is this place of origin what is now internationally recognised as the sovereign state of Israel and if so would Israel lose the right to exist ?It would seem that the phenomena of being 'Palestinian' and there being a Palestine state is arose quite recently.Before that Syria saw both as part of its control and territory.'At the beginning of the 20th century, a "local and specific Palestinian patriotism" emerged. The Palestinian identity grew progressively. In 1911, a newspaper named Falastin was established in Jaffa by Palestinian Christians and the first Palestinian nationalist organisations appeared at the end of the World War I two political factions emerged. al-Muntada al-Adabi, dominated by the Nashashibi family, militated for the promotion of the Arab language and culture, for the defense of Islamic values and for an independent Syria and Palestine. In Damascus, al-Nadi al-Arabi, dominated by the Husayni family, defended the same values.When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own."According to Benny Morris, Palestinian Arab nationalism as a distinct movement appeared between April and July 1920, after the Nebi Musa riots, the San Remo conference and the failure of Faisal to establish the Kingdom of Greater Syria.'You seem to be totally supportive of the Palestinian cause and completely antipathetic to that of Israel.Why is that ?

John Hawkes ● 91d

Interesting article about Kushner's (Trump's son-in-law) views on Gaza from last March:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev(And I hadn't seen this when I made my comment about golf course a few days ago!)

Michael Ixer ● 91d

His exact words, taken from the speech are below — it seems very clear that what he would like is ethnic cleansing, however as I have said before — he is so incompetent that he's unlikely to manage it. Hopefully I will not have to eat those words. "Instead, we should go to other countries of interest with humanitarian hearts, and there are many of them that want to do this and build various domains that will ultimately be occupied by the 1.8 million Palestinians living in Gaza, ending the death and destruction and frankly bad luck.“This can be paid for by neighbouring countries of great wealth. It could be one, two, three, four, five, seven, eight, 12. It could be numerous sites, or it could be one large site."

Michael Brigo ● 92d

Ethnic Cleansing of the Palestinians has been the existing policy of the UK & US government.Some people will pretend otherwise but they are either kidding themselves or listening and believing words whilst ignoring actions.The difference is Trump says things out loud.No doubt the Biden supporting brigade may be disappointed that the bombs have stopped falling on Gaza.I do not think the Palestinians will end up with as good a deal that has been previously on the table unfortunately.The Trump deal may be the final deal or perhaps a slightly better one may emerge from his proposal.We will have to wait and see.

Ed Robinson ● 92d

Looking at CNN he's quoted as saying 《The potential transfer, he said, “could be temporary” or “could be long-term.”》Sounds like he was thinking out loud on that point?https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/27/middleeast/trump-clean-out-gaza-middle-east-intl/index.htmlObviously, a concern about President Trump's territorial claims might make the Chinese think if the US is taking the Panama Canal back why shouldn't we take Taiwan back, or Putin if the Trump needs Greenland for US security, I need the Baltic states for Russian security? (Time for the UK to get back into Europe?) Still, if Ukraine can supply rare Earth's to the US tech industry that adds another angle, particularly as there's apparently a lot in Eastern Ukraine currently under Russian occupation. Given the rapid withdrawal of USAID personnel around the world it's interesting that the US President is so keen to own Gaza? (The USAID move must provide a great opportunity for the Chinese to fill the vacuum?)

Michael Ixer ● 92d

It's good to see you accepting that when a majority of UN members vote for something it carries some weight.Does that also mean you agree with the below, voted for by a majority of UN members in Sept 2024? I'm guessing not..."With a recorded vote of 124 nations in favour, 14 against, and 43 abstentions, the resolution calls for Israel to comply with international law and withdraw its military forces, immediately cease all new settlement activity, evacuate all settlers from occupied land, and dismantle parts of the separation wall it constructed inside the occupied West Bank.The General Assembly further demanded that Israel return land and other “immovable property”, as well as all assets seized since the occupation began in 1967, and all cultural property and assets taken from Palestinians and Palestinian institutions.The resolution also demands Israel allow all Palestinians displaced during the occupation to return to their place of origin and make reparation for the damage caused by its occupation."

Michael Brigo ● 92d

'That I understand is the Hamas and possibly other's view. I think they may also dispute the legality of how the UN mandate to create Israel was executed?'Why ?My reading of the circumstances is that the creation of Israel was carried out according to UN procedures and with the support of a large majority of member states.Excluding of course some Arab ones who seem still not able to accept its right to exist. 'The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations to partition Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate. Drafted by the U.N. Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) on 3 September 1947, the Plan was adopted by the UN General Assembly on 29 November 1947 as Resolution 181 (II). The resolution recommended the creation of independent but economically linked Arab and Jewish States and an extraterritorial "Special International Regime" for the city of Jerusalem and its surroundings.The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims of two competing movements: Palestinian nationalism and Jewish nationalism in the form of Zionism. Jewish organizations collaborated with UNSCOP during the deliberations, while Palestinian Arab leadership boycotted it.The end of the British Mandate for Palestine was formally made by way of the Palestine Act 1948 of 29 April. A public statement prepared by the Colonial and Foreign Office confirmed termination of British responsibility for the administration of Palestine from midnight on 14 May 1948.The Israeli Declaration of Independence, formally the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel was proclaimed on 14 May 1948 at the end of the civil war phase and beginning of the international phase of the 1948 Palestine war, by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.It declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine (or Land of Israel in the Jewish tradition), to be known as the State of Israel, which would come into effect on termination of the British Mandate at midnight that day. The State of Israel was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949. It also maintains bilateral ties with all of the UNSC Permanent Five.As of June 2024, the State of Israel is recognized as a sovereign state by 164 of the 192 member states of the United Nations. 28 member states have either never recognized Israel or have withdrawn their recognition; others have severed diplomatic relations without explicitly withdrawing their recognition. Additionally, many non-recognizing countries have challenged Israel's existence—predominantly those in the Muslim world—due to significant animosity stemming from the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and the Arab–Israeli conflict.

John Hawkes ● 92d

‘Never waste the opportunity offered by a good crisis’…..as Machiavelli said once, or was it Michelle Mone?

Gerry Boyce ● 92d

As usual Mr Carter - quite amusing.However take time to read a realistic view of what Trump might achieve to unlock the perpetually deadlocked situation regarding Israel and Palestine.It might cause the Palestinians to stop playing the victim card and get on and build themselves a better future."The audacity of Trump’s Gaza plan"https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-audacity-of-trumps-gaza-plan/

John Hawkes ● 92d

I just listened to it again, he says 'they will be resettled elsewhere'I'm going to both carrying on debating you - it's ethnic cleansing by his own words.Fortunately it's very unlikely to happen - just because he spouts nonsense doesn't mean he can actually do it. 8 years after he said he would 'build a wall' it's still not there.

Michael Brigo ● 92d

You had me at deranged.

Michael Brigo ● 92d

Hmm. Trump's "plan" (actually a non-thought-out  utterly crackpot idea) is obviously a non-starter, not least because he clearly has no realistic idea where the Palestinians could go. And yet, maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all: there must be large parts of Florida that would be acceptable to them,  and it wouldn't be too difficult to ethnically cleanse, say, the area around Mar-a-Lago by getting rid of a lot of the elderly Americans there to make room for the Palestinians. Now that would be an interesting idea....

Richard Carter ● 92d

This has already turned into a rather futile debate. Yes, Trump is indeed advocating ethnic cleansing, and we have to pray that he won't get away with it. But why don't we all cut to the chase? Trump is deranged, and the world (including the US) has to find a way of (a) ignoring or bypassing him or (b) hopefully getting rid of him. My hope is that he will self-destruct, although that would usher in JD Vance who has his own phobias. By the way, remember: We are not talking about diplomacy here. Trump made his fortune in real estate, and he is approaching Gaza, Panama and Greenland (and probably Europe soon) in that spirit. The traditional categories do not apply in Trump's world.

Alexander MacLeod ● 92d

@MB 11.02No, Trump did not say anything about a permanent removal, he actually said the region, once developed, would be open to the whole world and Palestinians could return. I listened to the press conference live and at no point did Trump say anything about the Palestinians not being allowed back. The entire press conference will probably be available on YT today so why not listen to him and Netanyahu discussing a Middle East peace initiative.

Sue Hammond ● 92d

Interesting how you think you should be barking orders at Palestinians!

Philippa Bond ● 92d

Mr Hawkes. Yes, I agree that the UN mandate created the state of Israel underpinning its legal existence, although think the UK abstained on that vote but I'm not really clear why?

Michael Ixer ● 92d

'I think they (Hamas) may also dispute the legality of how the UN mandate to create Israel was executed?'I am sure they do as also perhaps their fellow travellers on this Forum.You like me I assume disagree with them ?

John Hawkes ● 92d

I shall be interested to see US troops occupying Gaza, the Panama Canal Zone and Greenland. I suppose conscription solves the problem of unemployment? But who will pick the US fruit and veggies when all the undocumented workers have been deported? Of course, there may be bigger internal US issues if President Musk's young geeks allegedly tinkering with the live treasury systems break them and stop all government payments :-) Integrity issues in an "X"(Twitter) graph type database is one thing, in a financial relational or hierarchical db model it might cause more serious damage :-)

Michael Ixer ● 92d

Mr Hawkes. That I understand is the Hamas and possibly other's view. I think they may also dispute the legality of how the UN mandate to create Israel was executed? 

Michael Ixer ● 92d

Of course, have already condemned Hamas on here so many times I can't be bothered to do it again.

Michael Brigo ● 92d

He said 'permanent removal' - so they would not be allowed back.

Michael Brigo ● 92d

Mr BrigoIf you are awake you state -'The definition of ethnic cleansing is below:"The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide."So it is by definition ethnic cleansing'.But is this not exactly what the Palestinian Arabs wish to do to the Jews and the state of Israel ?Do you condemn them ?

John Hawkes ● 92d

Mr Ixer"Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous."Is this not exactly what the Palestinian Arabs want to do with regard to the Jews and Israel the land they legally occupy ?

John Hawkes ● 92d

Regarding Trump's latest comments on Gaza, though some are plainly ridiculous and probably made 'to annoy because he knows it teases', would it not benefit all Gazans if he did take it over and set it up as a holiday resort ?It after all has sand, sea and sun and tourism would be a better footing for economic growth than genocide.Would love to see the brave boys of Hamas take off their masks and balaclavas and walk around smiling as they take orders for cocktails from relaxing tourists."Abdul ! A negroni over here please and keep the change".

John Hawkes ● 92d

I didnt for a minute suggest he was planning on killing them. The definition of ethnic cleansing is below:"The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide."So it is by definition ethnic cleansing.That said, I can't believe he is actually serious.

Michael Brigo ● 92d

Sue,  you're wrong: "Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous."https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

Michael Ixer ● 92d

@MBEthnic cleansing? Don't be ridiculous. He's not suggesting they will be killed, just relocated. You may think Trump is mad, your prerogative, but to suggest that he is contemplating the extermination of 2 million people, suggests to me that you've lost the plot. 🙄

Sue Hammond ● 92d

He's (gone) mad - this is ethnic cleansing.

Michael Brigo ● 92d

Crazy stuff.

Steven Rose ● 92d