Forum Topic

Time For A Referendum On Restoring Capital Punishment

It has to happen!

Sue Hammond ● 12d42 Comments

"My view is that support for the death penalty will increase further if the economy worsens"What next capital punishment for chancellors that kill economic growth?:)

Ed Robinson ● 6d

More from the article in The Times: ”Capital punishment is politically divisive.  Of Conservative voters, 62% support reintroducing the death penalty and 28 % oppose, while for Labour 49% support it and 43% are against.  Support is strongest among Reform UK voters with 79% wanting it back and just 14% opposed.  Of all U.K. political parties, including the Green Party, support is weakest among Liberal Democrat voters, of whom 37% support it while 54% oppose it.” My view is that support for the death penalty will increase further if the economy worsens.  People will be unhappy at their taxes paying to keep murderers alive.

Martine Guy ● 6d

I would include any instance of child abuse, physical or sexual, that resulted in the death of the child. No excuses or mitigation pleading. End of. Whilst I'm in retribution mode, ALL convicted rapists would be physically castrated, none of the chemical castration 'punishment' because that is only effective when the medication is taken correctly and continuously.

Sue Hammond ● 6d

Mr Hawkes, that’s actually quite funny! According to the survey, support for the death penalty rises even further to 70% for certain crimes, ie acts of terrorism or serial murder.

Martine Guy ● 6d

😄

Sue Hammond ● 6d

Ms Guy'However, I don’t agree with the 1 in 20 members of the public who even backed using capital punishment against shoplifters!'Me neither; far too lenient !

John Hawkes ● 6d

Those who advocate capital punishment for shoplifters are clearly demented or just wind-up merchants. How long can any government deny the public a vote on the subject when we are supposed to be living in a democracy?

Sue Hammond ● 6d

The Times today “Majority Want Death Penalty Back”  “Most of the public think that the U.K. should bring back the death penalty with the strongest support among millenials, a poll has found”. ”The overall proportion of the public who thought it should be brought back for certain crimes increased from 50 to 55 percent, while opposition dropped from 37 to 32 percent”. I agree with Sue, it’s time for a Referendum. However, I don’t agree with the 1 in 20 members of the public who even backed using capital punishment against shoplifters!

Martine Guy ● 6d

'Foreign policy causes mass refugees'.'Change foreign policy'.Which aspect of it ?

John Hawkes ● 9d

"It was the EU's open borders that enabled the mass migration to the U.K"Not really, countries on the front line of the results of UK foreign policy could not cope. And why should they when it was mainly the Northern European countries, UK & US that destroyed countries creating the crisis.What did people think would happen?Of course there are other political & government forces spending lots of money on NGO etc to facilitate the movement of people. The UK does much same. Nothing new under the sun as they say.

Ed Robinson ● 10d

Although Mexico refused to accept the first deportation flight from the UShttps://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mexico-refuses-us-military-flight-deporting-migrants-sources-say-2025-01-25/

Michael Ixer ● 10d

Leave the ECHR and take them back to their homeland or any country they choose to go in the EU. It was the EU's open borders that enabled the mass migration to the U.K. We were never part of Schengen so why should our little island be inundated with millions of migrants, many of whom are not fleeing war or being persecuted. France is a nice safe place and only 22 miles across the Channel so that would be ideal for them. France was paid £700 million to stop the small boats but they had no intention of doing so. A clear breach of contract so they must accept them back.Trump has started America's huge migrant repatriation back to Mexico today. Wish he was here.

Sue Hammond ● 10d

Foreign policy causes mass refugees.More refugees end up in the UK that can not be returned as the home countries are unsafe.People complain about refugees but support the foreign policies and politicians that create the issue.Change foreign policy.Have propper boarders.Return and prosecute those entering illegally.At the very least it will stop people including children drowning in the channel.

Ed Robinson ● 10d

'Murder is now almost a daily occurrence in this country and people are becoming blasé about the numbers now'.Did not seem to be the case in recent decades past.Might it to be due to mass immigration of people from backward homelands where violent behaviour and killing is part of the society's inherent culture ?

John Hawkes ● 10d

'Parliamentary representatives swear an oath to the crown not the people.'True, but they know who will ensure they may or may not have a job in the next Parliament.

John Hawkes ● 10d

"We are a civilised nation run by a Parliamentary democracy and the rule of law."Parliamentary representatives swear an oath to the crown not the people.The crown if I'm not mistaken is doing quite well the people not so good.Once state assisted euthanasia is expanded, as it has everywhere it's been introduced, then no doubt prisoners on life sentences would also have a right to die.

Ed Robinson ● 10d

'the cost and expense of all the appeals by the legal class and the human rights brigade'.That is probably true as our Governments do seem so often to have their hands tied behind their backs because of feeling obliged to fall in line with extra-national 'rights' bodies such as the UN, the International Criminal Court and the European Court of Human Rights.Many of such bodies were set up in the past for very good reasons.However it would seem to me that they have now grossly extended their remit (and staff and costs).Who gave British lawyer Karim Khan his power over us ? I see no reason why we should not re-negotiate our relationship with these bodies to give us back sovereign power to base our legal systems on terms that suit us during the age of extreme terrorism we are now living through.And all the members of human rights legal Chambers from which Starmer emerged plus the vast number of human rights 'charity' workers could get a proper job.Our country does not need them.We are a civilised nation run by a Parliamentary democracy and the rule of law.Many countries are not.This is where the 'human rights brigade' should turn their attention to.Syria, Iran, Saudi, Sudan.....

John Hawkes ● 10d

Sue, DNA evidence has its limitations so in some cases there will be room for doubt. https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/dna-evidence6.htm

Michael Ixer ● 10d

Thank you for the elucidation, Mr Robinson.

David Ainsworth ● 11d

Probably not, Andy.  However, if the Southport murderer had gone ahead with a ricin attack and killed thousands of people, I think the public might be asking for the return of the death penalty.

Martine Guy ● 11d

The southport killer was under 18 at the time of the atrocity so would not have hanged anyway.The other danger of the death penalty will be the cost and expense of all the appeals by the legal class and the human rights brigade. If they wont let us remove convicted rapists back to their place of origin do you really think any death penalty would actually happen

Andy Pike ● 11d

"Except for the military and the police?"Except for the military and the police?" Military should be for the defense of the UK not loaned out to foreign states. The police have to operate within the law they do not have powers to kill whomever they wish. In 2022 there were 3 people fatally shot by the police forces in England & Wales, same in 2020 & 2019. In 2021 there was 2 & 2018 1.
https://www.inquest.org.uk/fatal-police-shootings

Ed Robinson ● 11d

We are all horrified, Sue, by the Southport killer’s dreadful crimes. But I don’t support extra-judicial punishments carried out by prisoners, many of whom may have committed terrible crimes themselves, perhaps even murder. Their motive in assaulting other prisoners is mainly to give vent to their own evil impulses, which they justify by pretending that they are handing out the punishment which society has failed to give.

Steven Rose ● 11d

Sue, you are not a lone voice.  I think we have moved on and now there is DNA and CCTV evidence to help prove a person’s guilt or innocence.  Some crimes are so heinous, I want these murderers to face the death penalty. Brady and Hindley lived for many years at taxpayers expense, after their crimes that shocked the nation, and only just missed the death penalty.  There was no doubt of their guilt because they recorded themselves as they murdered 10 year old Lesley Ann and this tape was played in court.

Martine Guy ● 11d

@Andy 19.24I agree that the death penalty would not have been a deterrent in cases like this one, nor the others that I mentioned because the individuals involved went armed with a weapon and a determination to kill. The Wests were partners in crime, as were the Moors Murderers, their crimes were multiple, so would the threat of being hanged have deterred them? Would serial killers be deterred by anything? I don't think so. I knew that I would be a lone voice on this forum, and Starmer doesn't have the balls to allow a Referendum anyway. Murder is now almost a daily occurrence in this country and people are becoming blasé about the numbers now. However I think the country should be given chance to decide for itself.I think the death penalty could prevent some murders from happening but to be honest that isn't the main reason why I want the death penalty reinstated. I want wilful murderers and monsters like Rudakubana, and those vile killers of little Sara Sharif, wiped off this planet. *If sentenced with the death penalty I want them to sit in their cell and contemplate what is coming to them. I want them to wake up quaking every day and be physically sick with fear. +However Sara's father and stepmother will not experience the level of fear that she lived with every day, knowing that the tortures will soon begin all over again. Whilst these prisoners are incarcerated for all those years and costing the taxpayers untold £millions keeping them alive, I hope the wardens look away and cannot see the beatings they will hopefully receive every day. I bet there is already a queue forming to kill Rudakubana. *Wish+Reality

Sue Hammond ● 11d

@Michael Ixer 19.45I get your point and thank goodness those inmates in the USA were reprieved from capital punishment because of the incredible advances that have been made in forensic techniques and analysis. These safeguards that are in place now would ensure that nobody would be executed in error.

Sue Hammond ● 11d

*to get it wrong

Sue Hammond ● 11d

Well nobody could get this one wrong! Neither could anyone get the murder of Lee Rigby wrong, or the murder of Jo Cox, or Fred and Rose West, or many others I could mention. When a murder is witnessed by multiple people and captured on cctv that is cast iron proof so there is no possibility of 'it get it wrong'

Sue Hammond ● 11d

I agree that we can't turn back the clock and nor should we. There are too many opportunities for mistakes to be made.In the case of Southport the law needs to change so that the monster (who probably would revel in martyrdom should the death sentence still be law) would have been tried as an adult rather than the 17 year old he was when he killed those children.I can't imagine for one moment live in prison will be a bed of roses for Rudukabana. Hopefully fellow prisoners will mete out their own form of justice.

Lucille Grant ● 11d

Sue, my reference to knee jerk was about my initial reaction to an atrocity.Having lived close to Rllington place and listened to my dad about Evan's 'conviction and subsequent hanging. It was not a life for a life it was a pure and simple miscarriage of justice.an innocent man grieving his murdered wife wrongly hung for her murder.Sorry, it's just too easy to get it wrong.

Andy Pike ● 11d

'"Personally I believe giving the state such powers to kill or help people kill is wrong."Except for the military and the police?'Another trite comment.We have a military as does every other country, that is given the right by will of Parliament to kill those that threaten the lives and security of the citizens of this country.The police have a right to kill only in exceptional circumstances when the lives of innocent citizens are threatened by others and will not desist from that position.There are then as everyone knows extensive reviews of the circumstances and punishment if the action was deemed unwarranted. Is there any aspect of British civil life or any institution in place to uphold it that you regard in a positive light ?Or do you simply revel in being a pain in the arse ?Back to the serious point at issue, are there not a large number of MPs supporting a euthanasia bill promoted by Labour MP Kim Leadbeater ?"MPs have voted in favour of proposals to legalise assisted dying in England and Wales.The bill, external will now face many more months of debate and scrutiny by MPs and peers, who could choose to amend it, with the approval of both Houses of Parliament needed for it to become law.It is also possible the bill could fall and not become law at all.The bill - called the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill - would make it legal for over-18s who are terminally ill to be given assistance to end their own life". BBC News.Here obviously the concept of the state allowing 'legal' killing is deemed acceptable and doctors would have to forego their Hippocratic oath to carry it out.Personally I am against capital punishment, not because I think killers like Axel Rudakubana are worth keeping alive or have a right to it, but because of the possibility in other circumstances of an innocent person being killed in error.In its place we should have long 'life' sentences in uncongenial institutions.

John Hawkes ● 11d

Hi Andy. This wan't a knee-jerk reaction by me, I have felt the same way ever since the death penalty was abolished in 1969. My conviction is simple; if someone wilfully takes another person's life, they must forfeit their own. You may remember that I have posted on the forum about this subject before.

Sue Hammond ● 11d

"Personally I believe giving the state such powers to kill or help people kill is wrong."

Except for the military and the police?

David Ainsworth ● 11d

"sometimes the Courts and Jurors make an incorrect decision"Is that sufficient reason?From vaccines to car travel we accept that a certain number of people are going to be killed yet we do not ban them?Peter Hitchens argues this case in some detail and very well but has recently commented that the state of the UK legal system makes any such policy impractical.Personally I believe giving the state such powers to kill or help people kill is wrong.

Ed Robinson ● 12d

HalloTotally agree.  No death penalty, as sometimes the Courts and Jurors make an incorrect decision, and the poor person gets killed!  So, no death penalty.

Carole Tanner ● 12d

Having an extreme foreign policy of funding fanatics just because they are the enemy of our enemy is madness.Fanatical groups and extremists are given sanctuary in the UK to help us implement foreign policy.Stop importing & exporting these individuals & groups and we will all be safer.We have one government department radicalising them and another trying to prevent them.Complete madness!

Ed Robinson ● 12d

I don’t agree with the death penalty for the reasons advanced by other contributors - it isn’t a deterrent and miscarriages of justice cannot be corrected.

Steven Rose ● 12d

The two previous UK massacres that come to mind are Hungerford and Dunblane. As both mass killers killed themselves at the end, the threat ofcapital punishment would not have influenced them (I assume) Neither of these massacres were terrorism either. By the way, "Reform UK MPs Lee Anderson and Rupert Lowe have called for the death penalty to be reintroduced in Britain in the wake of Axel Rudakubana’s sentencing."

David Ainsworth ● 12d

Many US states and the Federal government have the death sentence but it doesn't stop mass shootings, terrorist acts, etc. However,  a number of people on death row have been declared innocent after more modern forensic analysis: fortunately they weren't killed by the state. (I understand most were black.)

Michael Ixer ● 12d

I very much doubt it would have dettered that lad nor would it deter terrorists who would be martyred by it.There are many times I think that capital punishment would help BUT once calm settles in after the immediate event the risk of getting it wrong outweighs the knee jerk of the ultimate punishment.

Andy Pike ● 12d

You can't bring those 3 little girls who were butchered back to life either.

Sue Hammond ● 12d

No it doesn’t. It was never an effective deterrent and it was abolished as a result of miscarriages of justice. You can’t reverse a death sentence.

Jonathan Callaway ● 12d