Forum Topic

Another Bad Decision By Starmer

Mandelson was always a weird choice in my opinion. Donald Trump is considering rejecting Sir Keir Starmer’s nominee for UK ambassador to the US in what would be an extremely rare move.Sources within the Trump team have told The Independent that it is still not certain Peter Mandelson’s credentials will be accepted by Mr Trump after he becomes president.While the threat of rejecting Lord Mandelson could be sabre rattling, strains between the Labour government and the incoming administration are being blamed. However, there also are concerns about Lord Mandelson’s perceived links to China.Labour has told the Trump transition team that “it is a huge compliment” that Sir Keir wants to send such a senior Labour figure, but a source noted: “We are not buying that.”It was noted that Lord Mandelson did not attend the pre-inauguration party on Friday hosted by Nigel Farage in Washington DC, even though he had been invited in an effort to help build bridges with key members of the Trump team.The outgoing UK ambassador Dame Karen Pierce, who has impressed the transition team, was there.For an ambassadorial nominee to formally take up their role, the head of state of the country they have been sent to has to accept the “letters of credence”.In the UK this is done via the Court of St James’s where letters are presented to the King and in the US letters have to be presented to the president.One source said that strained relations with Mr Trump and the British government continue to be a problem which has “been made worse” by the nomination of Lord Mandelson.However, it is connections with China which are most alarming to the incoming Trump administration.“It is quite possible that Mandelson’s credentials could still be rejected,” a source said. “There are serious concerns about his links to China.”Lord Mandelson has been a strong advocate of close trading and other ties with China, even penning an article in 2018 warning that Mr Trump’s antipathy to China was “putting free trade at risk”.https://www.aol.co.uk/trump-considering-rejecting-lord-mandelson-162908190.html

Sue Hammond ● 113d50 Comments

Mandelson has been accepted.

Michael Brigo ● 103d

'They won't have to do anything - but do they all have the same dream - and will they get it'?Yes their dream is that living as they do in a land of opportunity and vast potential if they work at it they might just.

John Hawkes ● 110d

'Calling Donald Trump an ‘augmented toddler’ or a ‘Nazi’ is childish abuse. People who use such language should ask themselves why 77 million Americans voted for him'.Unfortunately the Labour Cabinet is made up of nothing more than an aging Student's Union committee.Good at passing resolutions but not so good for getting anything done.How Lammy, with a history of childish insults towards someone quite likely even then to lead the world's most political important country, got the job as Foreign Secretary I do not know.Would not happen in the US now Trump has stopped DEI hiring !

John Hawkes ● 110d

Why did 77 million Americans vote for him?  Quite simply because he has promised them he will give them a Utopian dream.  They won't have to do anything - but do they all have the same dream - and will they get it?

Philippa Bond ● 110d

Calling Donald Trump an ‘augmented toddler’ or a ‘Nazi’ is childish abuse. People who use such language should ask themselves why 77 million Americans voted for him.

Steven Rose ● 111d

"Fearmongering"?  How so?Do you mean you don't believe Trump is a man of his word?  He has threatened, nay, promised, to go after all the people I listed, and done so multiple times.

Jonathan Callaway ● 111d

No, the flags in the US are flying at half mast in honour of Jimmy Carter.  They are observing, until today at least, a month of mourning.

Ivonne Holliday ● 111d

I knew you'd see me right. Thanks big boy.

Michael Brigo ● 111d

'Is Bannon jealous of the tech billionaires ?'Why are you so obsessed with US politics and its weirder participants ?

John Hawkes ● 111d

'You need to re-read your own words. Then for once accept you made a mistake so i'm all happy and glowy'.And you should read my response where I accepted my words were perhaps not semantically correct but none the less I attempted to put the true meaning of my position, and rebuttal of your point, in context.Glad it made you 'all happy and glowy' though it is an image that makes me a little queasy🤔🤮

John Hawkes ● 111d

And, slightly off topic, but is Bannon jealous of the tech billionaires?https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/steve-bannon-zuckerberg-musk-bezos-supplicants-trump-b2682186.html#Echobox=1737324677

Michael Ixer ● 111d

But, Sue, I will take back the comment about the half mast flags. It wasn't made clear in the news item I saw that this is only in certain states. I can see on the TV news feed that the White House flag is flying at half mast so that wasn't anything to do with DJT.

Michael Ixer ● 111d

You need to re-read your own words. Then for once accept you made a mistake so i'm all happy and glowy.

Michael Brigo ● 111d

Steven, I don't think it's childish because it's what concerns people. I'd agree that his actions are the important consideration. The other aspect is some of the people who are now surrounding him - what self interest and odd ideas do they have and how will they influence him. If he looks like doing something overboard in reaction to an event, will they stop him?Of course, we have to remember that the USA is a Union of states each with their own laws, some with Democratic governments, so it will be interesting to see how things pan out. Sometimes disruption can bring about improvements - other times, without constraints, it can end in disaster. In his business dealings he has always been constrained by the courts, as President his only constraints are Congress and the Supreme Court. Are they up to that job? Or has he got more self control than has been evidenced when it's not been needed?

Michael Ixer ● 111d

Ah, Mr Charmless is back with us ! 🤮The largest electorate true but not necessarily the most effective democratic system.Mr Modi is often challenged by 'progressives' (doubtless including yourself) for his despot-like behaviour and quite a few of his predecessors have been assassinated.This makes for an interesting read.https://asiasociety.org/switzerland/oxford-debate-india-fails-test-be-democracy-every-dayZURICH, MAY 4, 2022 - India is seen as the world’s largest democracy, with over a billion people voting in national and state elections every five years. Yet questions surrounding the state of India’s democracy grow louder. Last year, both Freedom House and the V-Dem Institute downgraded the country’s status from ‘free’ to ‘partly free’ and from ‘electoral democracy’ to ‘electoral autocracy’.

John Hawkes ● 111d

Not that I read Facebook (and I am surprised you do as it seems to be owned by a Musk-like trillionaire), but bearing in mind the Presidential voting figures, there must be as many on the site that warm to Trump as there are 'terrified' of him.And of course your friends in the US feel the same way about him as you do.People choose their friends for many reasons and a mutual empathy for shared political beliefs is surely a strong one.

John Hawkes ● 111d

"What a patronising comment about the electorate of the world's largest democratic state."Um, that's India - factless fool.

Michael Brigo ● 111d

Fear mongering.The US has the most effective and rigorous legal system in the world to protect its citizens and institutions."He is pulling your plonker" as Delboy would have said."He only does it to annoy (readers of Forum) because he knows it teases".

John Hawkes ● 111d

As is you your comment, Sue; if you read my post, I was reflecting the sentiments of those in the US who didn't vote for Trump, as expressed on Facebook. Are you saying that those in the US who didn't vote for Trump are stupid? I suppose an analogy could be those in the UK who didn't vote for Sir Kier are stupid ... although not quite the same as those who voted for Reform probably assisted him win :-)Still, let's see what the 200 executive orders are that he signs today ...

Michael Ixer ● 111d

@Mr Hawkes 09.52Mr Ixer's comment was not only patronising but extremely stupid considering that the popular vote for Trump was 77,302,580 !

Sue Hammond ● 112d

It could get really ugly and it is hardly the norm in healthy democracies to use the law against your political enemies in the way Trump intends.  Russia does it, China obviously does it too and a few others such as Hungary, India etc are following suit.Here is Trump's current hit list:- former National Security Advisor John Bolton- Hillary Clinton- Joe Biden (of course)- Kamala Harris (of course)- former FBI Director Christopher Wray- former Republican Senator Liz Cheney, daughter of the former neocon Vice-President Dick Cheney- Democrat Senator Adam Schiff- former Special Counsel Jack Smith, who brought two of the federal criminal cases against Trump.There may be more.Mark Zaid, a Washington lawyer who represents several people who have been the target of Trump’s threats, said it would be “naïve and foolish not to take the explicit threats or even implicit taunts of retaliation by President Trump and his allies seriously.”He said: “He has promised that his second term will be one of fulfilled promises, and while every president breaks many, it is quite low-hanging fruit to take certain steps of retribution against perceived enemies.“That could include serious actions such as prosecution, but it could also be responses like revoking security clearances or terminating employment — acts that are already within the authority and power of the presidency, even without providing due process in some cases.”One lever available to Trump is ordering the  Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to audit his rivals: during the first Trump White House, former FBI Director James Comey was put through a brutal, forensic audit.Nonprofit journalism newsrooms that criticise the President-elect could have their charitable status revoked by the Treasury Department.... and so it goes on.And some believe this man will make the world a safer place.  I find that hard to believe but (a huge but) if he can get Russia to back off in Ukraine and allow that country to determine its own independent future, then I would be very happy to change my mind.

Jonathan Callaway ● 112d

In my view the criticism of Trump's personality is rather childish. It's not who he is that matters - it's what he does  that is important.

Steven Rose ● 112d

'I always treasure mental health advice from an expert like Ms Hammond'I am always happy to help those in need of guidance, Mr Ainsworth.

Sue Hammond ● 112d

Wrong, Mr Hawkes, I was just reflecting the tone of many US Facebook posts, as I noted previously. (I thought you'd read my post?) Perhaps that's their view of their fellow voters - certainly how most of my US friends feel. As you say it's a democracy so they can express their views.

Michael Ixer ● 112d

' I think for many in the US, TDS is Trump Disillusionment Syndrome  :-('What a patronising comment about the electorate of the world's largest democratic state.

John Hawkes ● 112d

'He is an augmented toddler. Who tomorrow is given the heavy black leather briefcase to play with for 4 years'.Let's hope Putin and all the Islamic states and terrorist groups that threaten Israel have noticed.

John Hawkes ● 112d

I thought the only sufferer of TDS was the Orange One himself. https://inews.co.uk/news/world/trump-returns-office-hell-bent-revenge-3488887?utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=i_eveningheadlines%202025-01-19&utm_term=editorial_evening_newsletter(This may be behind a paywall but the headline tells the story)

Jonathan Callaway ● 112d

Nothing like that, Sue; a lot more direct than the Guardian. Just reflecting the sentiments of a lot of Facebook posts from the US. I think for many in the US, TDS is Trump Disillusionment Syndrome  :-(

Michael Ixer ● 112d

I always treasure mental health advice from an expert like Ms Hammond. And so up to the minute!

David Ainsworth ● 112d

Michael Ixer & David Ainsworth are both sadly suffering from the latest mental health condition: TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) I believe it can be cured by ceasing to read the Guardian

Sue Hammond ● 112d

Just listened to Radio 4 Any Questions which I think it was the Labour representative that said a ceasefire is no good to anyone.Well all lasting peace has to start with a ceasefire.But when was this person living off the fat of the state last deprived of food, water, shelter and medical attention? That break may save lives.Not to mention the people to that would be killed or maimed on both sides, which a ceasefire may prevent.What next? Don't the throw that lifebuoy to the drowning person because it not a permanent rescue?

Ed Robinson ● 112d

I don’t imagine that the Israeli hostages or the people of Gaza are particularly interested in what contributors to Putney Forum think about Trump. They are just glad that he has contributed to a ceasefire.

Steven Rose ● 112d

"It's sad that Trump has such a big ego and is so childish he isn't he hasn't got the strength of character to show respect to the late President Carter."He is an augmented toddler. Who tomorrow is given the heavy black leather briefcase to play with for 4 years.

David Ainsworth ● 112d

Yeah, whatever ...🙄

Sue Hammond ● 112d

It's sad that Trump has such a big ego and is so childish he isn't he hasn't got the strength of character to show respect to the late President Carter.https://www.npr.org/2025/01/15/g-s1-42957/flags-to-be-raised-for-trumps-inauguration-despite-half-staff-order-for-carters-death

Michael Ixer ● 112d

Or "A shifting perception of the war within Israel."

Philippa Bond ● 112d

As of April 2024, the five countries owning the most US debt are Japan ($1.1 trillion), China ($749.0 billion), the United Kingdom ($690.2 billion), Luxembourg ($373.5 billion), and Canada ($328.7 billion).Investors from Russia, China, and Indonesia had sharp drops in US Treasurys over the last several years due to sanctions and short-term capital needs, among other reasons.https://usafacts.org/articles/which-countries-own-the-most-us-debt/

Ed Robinson ● 113d

Trump may not be not an attractive personality. He is sexist and absurdly vainglorious. But he is not racist, let alone a Nazi, as David Lammy ignorantly called him. It is worth noting that even before taking over as President, Trump has already played a decisive role in bringing about a ceasefire in Gaza.

Steven Rose ● 113d

Ditto, Sue.

Ivonne Holliday ● 113d

@IvonneDetest and love are extremely emotive words to use. Why would you detest someone you have never met? Why would I love someone I have never met? Your posts often border on the hysterical with the overuse of exclamation marks  such as multiple ???? and !!!!!🙄Calm down, play with your worry beads and contain your angst.

Sue Hammond ● 113d

@MIIf you follow Farage on FB and IG (as I do) you will see that he spends plenty of time in his constituency, out and about interacting with Clacton constituents and supporting local businesses, especially the pubs.😉The rapport he has with the people there is extraordinary, especially with young guys who are likely going to be Reform's future voters. They are probably drawn to him because he's not a stereotypical MP and is seen as a bit of a rebel which is appealing to them. However if he isn't physically sitting in the constituency office every Friday, and it hacks off enough people, they will not re-elect him at the next GE.

Sue Hammond ● 113d

Just as well we can afford sending insults to yet another country that the UK has become reliant upon for fuel. After decades of UK underinvestment and switching to foreign imports by both Labour/Conservatives.Still at least we have an independent nuclear deterrent??With the UK dependent upon the US for so many basic things Labour's attitude is as daft as Brexit.Economy in a poor state, high dependencies and of course nothing planned. What else would we expect from our finest representatives?"The UK imported £18.7 billion of fuels from the United States in 2023, comprising 23.5% of all imports of this commodity. This primarily included £8.5 billion of crude oil (unrefined petroleum which is then refined to produce useable products such as petrol or diesel), and £6.6 billion of natural gas."https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/uktradewiththeunitedstates2023/2023#

Ed Robinson ● 113d

Hello Sue,Yes, you are right, it does annoy me tremendously that Farage was hosting a party for Trump but not for the reasons you wish to believe in.I do detest sycophants (like Farage) enormously just as much as I detest adulation seekers (like Trump). Well, I detest dishonesty in general.You, on the other hand, appear to love them both.

Ivonne Holliday ● 113d

The list of poor decisions by Labour under Starmer:1) giving the doctors and the train drivers inflationary pay deals2) withdrawing winter fuel allowance from millions of pensioners, many of whom will be unable to heat their homes this winter3)  forcing many parents on modest incomes to withdraw their children from private schools even when adequate state provision is lacking4) undermining family farms by imposing unaffordable inheritance tax bills5) raising employers’ NI contributions and thereby slowing growth6) handing the Chagos Islands to Mauritius, an ally of China, without consulting the islanders7) taxing the overseas incomes of non doms, many of whom are now moving to Italy where they will enhance Giorgia Meloni’s tax receipts7) appointing David Lammy as Foreign Secretary and Peter Mandelson as Ambassador, both of whom have insulted the President elect of Britain’s most important ally.These errors of judgment are largely the result of the ‘black hole’ ( to use the expression favoured by Rachel from Accounts) at the core of Labour’s thinking. Starmer no longer believes in socialism, which is why he has disavowed most of the left wing policies on which he stood in the leadership election.  And the same is true of the ministers he has chosen. Having little or or no idea of what they are for, they  define themselves in terms of what they are against. Their hates include the following:a) Trump (hence the foolishly undiplomatic language used by Lammy and Mandelson)b) the boss class (hence the hike in employers’ contributions)c) rich bastards (hence ending non dom status for foreigners and taxing farmers)d) aspirational parents (hence the imposition of VAT on private schools)e) colonialism (hence the decision to hand the Chagos Islands to Mauritius).

Steven Rose ● 113d

"Leader of the Opposition"With 183,658 members and 1 point behind Labour in a recent polls I do not think it will be long before they over take Labour.It's a bit puzzling why a new left party hasn't sprung up or why the Greens can't get over 60 thousand members.I guess many Reform supporters do not sign up for all their policies where as on the Left you have to agree with everything or your a right winger!

Ed Robinson ● 113d

"It's not like he has any ministerial duties."I assume that he is Leader of the Opposition in Waiting, isn't he?

David Ainsworth ● 113d

Shouldn't Mr Farage, MP have been holding a constituency surgery on Friday like many other MPs. It's not like he has any ministerial duties.

Michael Ixer ● 113d

'Why was Farage hosting a pre-inauguration party for Trump?'Let's guess shall we?1) Farage wanted to do it 2)Trump wanted Farage to do it3)They really have been personal friends for over a decade Plus it really seems to annoy you, which is a bonus as far as I am concerned.👍

Sue Hammond ● 113d

"He believes he is the king of the world and everybody should do as he says - not as he does....."No change there then. Perhaps a bit more explicit but much the same. They did win the war after all!Just as well the UK has lots of friends - well a few and it looks like some of those will go soon.It doesn't seem very diplomatic more like two fingers up.With the economy down and the government promising to be "ruthless with cuts if that's what's necessary" it looks like it won't be their two fingers that get chopped off!

Ed Robinson ● 113d

"It was noted that Lord Mandelson did not attend the pre-inauguration party on Friday hosted by Nigel Farage in Washington DC, even though he had been invited in an effort to help build bridges with key members of the Trump team."Why was Farage hosting a pre-inauguration party for Trump? Very bizarre indeed!Trump will do whatever he wants, regardless.  He believes he is the king of the world and everybody should do as he says - not as he does.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 113d