Mr Hawkes It's a little pointless having an argument over whose grandmother had it harder - obviously, they both struggled, my maternal grandmother also had to take cleaning jobs, and both should be respected for supporting their daughters. I was interested in your "ten bob social" comment; refreshing my memory with the help of Mr Google, that seemed to be for those that couldn't work through sickness and only men got 10/-; women were given a lower amount of 7/6! The only benefit my grandmother seemed to get was a council flat, which sounded comfortable. I can remember stories of her having to work while unwell, perhaps 7/6 wasn't sufficient to pay rent, and feed and cloth a family? Unfortunately, that's lost in the mist of time so there could be things I'm unaware of. (However, based on her mother's experience, my mother was a strong supporter of equality for women, particularly equal pay.)Perhaps your mistake was referring in your post to "single mothers" while also referring to moral standards constantly declining. I suppose that depends how one measures "moral standards". I'd say not putting women in mental institutions, sending them away to homes, or forcibly snatching their babies away shortly after birth is an improvement in society's standards; similar, calling women fallen or sinful for becoming single mothers while not castigating the men involved now seems appalling - that seemed to be something propagated by Christian churches - possibly because of the (what atheists consider mythical) event I think you refer to in the New Testament.I'd agree with you that fathers should be made to support their children if they have the means and capability, although there may be legitimate reasons why women do not want or fear contact with the fathers; perhaps another moral improvement is providing facilities for women with violent partners? Perhaps the imbalance of support for children being shouldered on mothers is a hangover from the Christian values of labeling unmarried mothers as "fallen women"? I'm sure most mainstream religions now accept conception out of wedlock, and in my experience, most cases of these relationships seem as stable as marriages in the modern world. Unfortunately, I'm not sure acceptance is true of some of the extreme evangelist religions - but isn't the UK now a secular country?
Michael Ixer ● 53d