Forum Topic

Netanyahu's operation

Le Monde, amongst others, reports that Binyamin Netanyahu, who was diagnosed with a urinary tract infection caused by a benign prostate enlargement, has successfully undergone removal of his prostate. (https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/12/29/netanyahu-in-good-condition-after-prostate-surgery-hospital-says_6736540_4.html).Borrowing from Evelyn Waugh's famous remark about Randolph Churchill, “How typical a triumph of modern science to find the one part of Netanyahu which was not malignant and to remove it.”

Richard Carter ● 73d36 Comments

Richard, I don’t think Lucille can fairly be described as a keyboard warrior. She seldom contributes to Putney Forum, and then chiefly to respond briefly to one-sided denunciations of Israel. My understanding of the term is someone whose political activity is confined to  frequent, long and impassioned posts on sites like theForum.  This  might well apply to you or me but not Lucille.

Steven Rose ● 69d

I just love it when keyboard warriors accuse people they disagree with, of being keyboard warriors!

Richard Carter ● 69d

Mr Hawkes what some of these keyboard warriors seem to forget is that if Israel didn't have their expensive Iron Dome defence system in place, the country would have long been obliterated by Hamas and Hezbollah's (aka Iran's) rockets.

Lucille Grant ● 69d

'There was absolutely no reason for Mr Carter to post a thread specifically about Netanyahu's operation'.Other than the fact he has a sick and twisted sense of humour and a seeming hatred of Israel.

John Hawkes ● 69d

'Poor Hawkes has banged his head on the keyboard so much, he's lost what little hint of coherence he might once have had lol'.But I have been cheered a little by the following piece of  news reported by the BBC claiming two more Palestinian terrorist leaders will no longer be able to organise the killing of Israelis. 'The chief of Gaza's Hamas-run police force and his deputy have been killed in an Israeli strike on a tent camp sheltering displaced families. (BRAVE BOYS HIDING AMONGST CIVILIANS).The ****Hamas-run interior ministry**** (!) condemned what it called the "assassination" of Mahmoud Salah and Hussam Shahwan, who it said had been "performing their humanitarian and national duty" (LOL).Nine other people, including three children and two women, were also killed in the overnight attack in al-Mawasi, near the southern city of Khan Younis, medics said. (ISN'T THAT WHAT HAPPENS UNFORTUNATLY WHEN CIVILIANS ARE USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS BY COWARDLY TERRORISTS ?)Israel's military confirmed it had carried out a strike targeting Shahwan, who it alleged was a "terrorist" who had helped Hamas's military wing plan attacks on Israeli forces in Gaza'. I do hope no one jokes about the deaths of these two terrorists/freedom fighters and says - "Ah, couldn't have happened to nicer blokes".

John Hawkes ● 70d

'Poor Hawkes has banged his head on the keyboard so much, he's lost what little hint of coherence he might once have had lol'.Carter you may well be right.It does require effort to take Israel's side, in the widest sense, in its battle against those that would see it annihilated, who are supported by those that, if not their fellow travellers, show such great antipathy towards it.So carry on with your humorous (well I am sure they make you laugh) post regarding the state of my mental faculties, similar to the one you made on Netanyahu's medical condition.Attempting to counter the extreme and often aggressive postings made by you, Ainsworth and Brigo is certainly debilitating.The ability to engage in balance and unprejudiced  intellectual discourse is not an attribute that could be used to describe any of you.And it is also frustrating in that requests for supporting evidence for what you all claim, especially in your attacks on Israel, is rarely successful and forthcoming.And what is produced is in the main often from obscure, biased websites and your attempts to counter opposing opinions clouded by 'whataboutary'. Plus of course from Brigo one is simply accused without evidence of holding opinions about people that have never been made.

John Hawkes ● 70d

Having recently seen the film Conclave, the quote "Certainty is the great enemy of unity. Certainty is the deadly enemy of tolerance" stuck in my mind ...(And I would recommend the film :-) )

Michael Ixer ● 70d

'You believe Richard Carter is an anti-semite'.You obviously stand by this accusation you made of me.So please provide the evidence.

John Hawkes ● 70d

Honestly, Philippa, I wouldn't bother. Poor Hawkes has banged his head on the keyboard so much, he's lost what little hint of coherence he might once have had lol.

Richard Carter ● 70d

'Hmmmm, I guess deep down you know eh?'Know what ?

John Hawkes ● 70d

You don't think that reporting has been/is being severely restricted in Israel???  Why so often is there a standard phrase issued about particular killings 'being investigated' but so often nothing further heard?

Philippa Bond ● 71d

Incidentally I noticed that you didnt accuse me of being 'libellous and defamatory' when I called you a racist.Hmmmm, I guess deep down you know eh?

Michael Brigo ● 71d

"You have no evidence for such a claim and the comment is libellous and defamatory."See you in court?

Michael Brigo ● 71d

'Israel is held to higher standards because, as is always boasted, it is a democracy and there is a chance that its worst excesses might be limited by outside opinion, a consideration that does not apply to regimes like those of Russia or Iran, say'.So we keep kicking out against a country where free speech is allowed but not bother with those whose actions are by every standard worse than those of Israel and also would take no notice of your comments, for what they are worth anyway.A typical leftist attitude to cover vis a vis Corbyn where a person's true sympathies lie.'You would have to be very one-eyed to think that I only post on Israel/Palestine; other posters here have, for example, accused me of obsessively posting pro-cyclist and anti-car comments'.Really ?You equate a seemingly to some, biased view on the Middle East conflict with CYCLING ? (BANGS HEAD ON KEYBOARD).

John Hawkes ● 71d

Mr RoseAnother excellent analysis of the wider and more fundamental reasons why Israel is always under attack by the (far) Left for its conduct whilst worse atrocities perpetrated by other states are ignored.The issue is clouded not only by long standing anti-semitism but the faddish concepts of anti-colonialism and 'white privilege'.Many detect that these concepts, the latter recently imported from US academia, influence the world of the so called 'liberal' educational establishments where most reporters and commentator study.This biased intellectual perspective in turn clouds the reporting of supposed neutral media outlets.Coupled with the fact that reporting, even for the BBC, is dangerous and severely restricted in countries you name which is not the case in Israel.Hence the reluctance to attempt it.

John Hawkes ● 71d

Mr BrigoI wrote - 'Or else it is just Israel and the Jews that get under his political sensitive and selective skin' because this is the country of all the many involved in barbaric conflict, he seems most concerned with.You seem to imply he does this because he holds Israel to a higher standard than he does other states and thus I assume his regular posts on the country and its people are made more in sorrow than in anger. You deduce from my statement and claim of me - 'You believe Richard Carter is an anti-semite'.You have no evidence for such a claim and the comment is libellous and defamatory.You perhaps need schooling in the law.

John Hawkes ● 71d

Lucille, yes bring the hostages home.  I think about the Bibas infants a lot.  That’s all I am going to say on this sensitive subject.

Martine Guy ● 72d

Lucille, very quickly:1. Israel is held to higher standards because, as is always boasted, it is a democracy and there is a chance that its worst excesses might be limited by outside opinion, a consideration that does not apply to regimes like those of Russia or Iran, say.2. How generous of you "to take [Steven's] word" that I am not antisemitic. 3. You would have to be very one-eyed to think that I only post on Israel/Palestine; other posters here have, for example, accused me of obsessively posting pro-cyclist and anti-car comments.

Richard Carter ● 72d

Sorry Steven for misspelling your name! BTW I agree with your post @16.51 on 30/12

Lucille Grant ● 72d

I also find it strange that it is always Israel that comes in for specific posts criticising the Jewish state (as pointed out eloquently by Mr Hawkes).There are atrocities aplenty happening across the world but Israel for some inexplicable reason has to be held up to be better. There was absolutely no reason for Mr Carter to post a thread specifically about Netanyahu's operation. But he seems to actively post numerous threads about Israel. I will take your word that he is not anti Semitic Stephen. But in this day and age to constantly criticise the Jewish State is no longer merely anti Zionism I'm afraid.Happy New Year everyone and #BringTheHostagesHomeNow.

Lucille Grant ● 72d

Quite apart from Putney Forum, John, there is a general question of  why Israel is the target of so criticism from the Left,to the exclusion of other countries where terrible crimes are taking place such as China and Sudan. There are several reasons for this:1) One is anti-Semitism. Jews only seem to be popular when they are victims and sometimes not even then for they are often accused of having brought it on themselves. Comments like 'the conflict didn't begin on October 7' are an example of this. When Jewish people fight back, they are compared to the Nazis. For example, Jeremy Corbyn hosted a meeting in Parliament under the banner 'From Auschwitz to Gaza'.2) Another motive is anti- colonialism. The Jews are seen as white Europeans who have colonised Arab land. The fact that Jews have lived in what is now Israel for over two thousand years and over half the population is descended from Jews who were forced because of violence or discrimination to abandon their homes in  Arab countries is forgotten or ignored.3) Media bias is an important factor. The BBC simply do not report on what is happening in Sudan and very seldom in China, whereas there are daily reports on Gaza, almost always from a Palestinuan perspective.4) I think fashion is also a motive, especially among the young. Students in particular are influenced by the prevailing ethos in schools and universities. They tend to take up causes without necessarily having a great deal of background knowledge.

Steven Rose ● 72d

You believe Richard Carter is an anti-semite - in the post Stephen (who knows him personally) says he is not.Amazing that yet again you need to be schooled to read posts correctly.

Michael Brigo ● 72d

"Well you make your moral values quite clear."As have you.

Michael Brigo ● 72d

My post 31/12/24 10:27:00 addresses the point of Netanyahu's qualities as a PM and whether it is any of our business.But what I really find obvious yet strange and disturbing is the fact that this poster concentrates it seems exclusively on the Middle East conflict and the actions of the Israelis viz a viz the Palestinians.He seems to be  unaware of appalling activities perpetrated by other states in other conflicts or at least never gives them the stick he wields against Israel.I concede I cannot claim to know this poster as some do and I judge him solely by what he writes about and his opinions on these topics.Some seem to regard him with esteem - a blend of Atticus Finch and Father Christmas.However there are no posts from him I can recall on China's treatment of the Muslim Uyghurs, nor the massacres between black African tribes in Sudan, Chad and the 'Democratic' Republic of Congo often involving the Islamist group Boko Haram.And let's not forget the Turkish oppression of the Kurds.No, all we get are attacks on Israel, ironically itself under attack by Palestinian Arabs.I can only assume these other conflicts are of no interest to him and are viewed as petty in nature.Or else it is just Israel and the Jews that get under his political sensitive and selective skin.Why should that be ?

John Hawkes ● 72d

'Perhaps you ought to read the previous post from Stephen Rose?'I have.There is nothing in it in the main that I disagree with.It seems to me that it reaffirms Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state and to do whatever necessary to remove the threat of a group of fascist and racist terrorists that wish to annihilate it.If I have misunderstood him I apologise and would be happy to be corrected by him.You in turn need not respond as your views to the contrary are perfectly clear.

John Hawkes ● 72d

'That would be a democratic state and a bunch of blood lusting unelected Islamist terrorists that invaded it ?'"Yes".Well you make your moral values quite clear.Ruthlessness shown in defence whilst under threat of annihilation from an aggressor seems to you beyond the pale.I am sure Churchill would have got a pasting from you were this Forum to have existed when we responded to the German blitzkrieg by our bombing raids on that country's military facilities with unavoidable civilian collateral damage.

John Hawkes ● 72d

Perhaps you ought to read the previous post from Stephen Rose?

Michael Brigo ● 72d

Yes

Michael Brigo ● 72d

'What do you think would happen if the hostages are no longer alive? Hamas is a ruthless terrorist group and in my opinion they couldn't be trusted'.I agree.But to some posters on this Forum what happened in October 2023 has been quickly and quietly forgotten and the female, elderly and children killed, sexually assaulted and still held hostage seem to be considered a fair price to be paid for so called 'Palestinian oppression' by Israel.

John Hawkes ● 72d

'Have you considered that the remark was made not because the Israeli pm is a Jew, but because he is a terrible pm?'No.We know the position the poster takes in the Arab-Israel conflict.And as for Netanyahu being a terrible PM this is only the concern of the Israeli electorate that put him in office.Not some Putney armchair 'freedom fighter' who finds it amusing to mock his ailment.Now if the poster gave us his views of the British Labour PM that might be of some interest.I only say 'might'. Let's hope Starmer stays fit and well.

John Hawkes ● 72d

'They are both ruthless.'That would be a democratic state and a bunch of blood lusting unelected Islamist terrorists that invaded it ?

John Hawkes ● 72d

They are both ruthless.

Philippa Bond ● 72d

What do you think would happen if the hostages are no longer alive? Hamas is a ruthless terrorist group and in my opinion they couldn't be trusted.

Sue Hammond ● 73d

I happen to know Richard personally and I can confirm that he is not an anti-Semite. But I believe that like many people on the left of politics he takes a one sided view of the conflict in the Middle East, focusing on the threat to Palestinians from Israeli expansionists rather than the threat to the existence of Israel as a Jewish state posed by Palestinian extremists, on the crimes committed by Israeli settlers rather than the pogrom carried out by Hamas terrorists, on the beaches of international law when the IDF forcibly evacuate a hospital rather than when Hamas use the same hospital as military base.As for Netanyahu, there is a tendency to personalise the conflict too much.. I am not a fan of Netanyahu's and I think the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 was a calamitous mistake. But it would be wrong to see him as the main stumbling block to peace. He represents a large number of people in Israel, probably the majority, who believe that there can be no security until Hamas leaves Gaza or is eliminated. He is not as extreme as some of his ministers. For example, he agreed to a ceasefire with Hezbollah against the will of people like Ben Gvir and Smotrich. He is prepared to negotiate. Reports suggest that Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement. But  Israel will insist on two things. One is the return of the hostages. The other is a guarantee that Hamas will not use any ceasefire to regroup, rearm and carry out further massacres. This guarantee can only be assured by an Israeli military presence even after Gaza has been handed over to a civilian Palestinian administration.

Steven Rose ● 73d

Mr Hawkes: Have you considered that the remark was made not because the Israeli pm is a Jew, but because he is a terrible pm?

Alexander MacLeod ● 73d

Yet another quote in poor taste resulting from your trawling www.anti-Jewish quotes' online.What little jester you are !

John Hawkes ● 73d