Forum Topic

'Genocide implies an intention to destroy a National or ethnic group'.Not the sad but inevitable consequences and casualties when a sovereign state such as Israel has to fight to repel attacks on it by another state such as Palestine.Such as (1) that of the Turks with regard the Armenians - 'In 1915, during World War I, leaders of the Turkish government set in motion a plan to expel and massacre Armenians. By the early 1920s, when the genocide finally ended, between 600,000 and 1.5 million Armenians were dead, with many more forcibly removed from the country'.or (2) Turkey's repression the Kurds - Said revolt: 15,000–20,000 to 40,000–250,000 civilians killedArarat revolt: 4,500 civilians killedKurdish-Turkish conflict (1978–present): 6,741 to 18,000–20,000 civilians killedor (3) the Chinese regarding to Uighurs 'Since 2014, the Chinese government has committed a series of ongoing human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities in Xinjiang which has often been characterized as persecution or as genocide. There have been reports of mass arbitrary arrests and detention, torture, mass surveillance, cultural and religious persecution, family separation, forced labor, sexual violence, and violations of reproductive rights'.or (4) in Rwanda regarding the Tutsi and Hutu.'The Rwandan genocide, also known as the genocide against the Tutsi, occurred from 7 April to 19 July 1994 during the Rwandan Civil War. Over a span of around 100 days, members of the Tutsi ethnic group, as well as some moderate Hutu and Twa, were systematically killed by Hutu militias. While the Rwandan Constitution states that over 1 million people were killed, most scholarly estimates suggest between 500,000 and 662,000 Tutsi died. The genocide was marked by extreme violence, with victims often murdered by neighbours, and widespread sexual violence, with between 250,000 and 500,000 women raped.These are true examples of genocide in my view.Oh and yes not let us  forget the genocide of 6,000,000+ Jews by German Nazis.It is pretty appalling how those who I am sure bask in the glow of their progressiveness in supporting the Palestinians from the comfort of their Putney armchairs, use the word genocide so sloppily, casually, deceptively and misleadingly to make a political point.

John Hawkes ● 31d

I realise that this thread is supposed to be about domestic politics but I really can’t let an accusation of genocide against Israel, the modern equivalent of the blood libel, pass without comment. A lie if repeated often enough can soon become an accepted fact.Michael Brigo correctly, if unwittingly, hit  the nail on the head when he said, ‘it’s based on intent’. In the Second World War the Allies deliberately firebombed enemy cities where there were few or no military targets. The clear aim was to kill civilians in order to weaken the resolve of the enemy. In the last week of July 1943, for example, the RAF killed an estimated 37 000 people  in Hamburg. On 10 March 1945 the USAAF killed over 90 000 people in Tokyo. Yet no one accuses Britain and America of genocide. In contrast Israel has taken steps to reduce civilian casualties in Gaza by giving advance warning of raids and advising civilians to move out of harm’s way. Astonishingly even this is added to Israel’s charge sheet, being described as ethnic cleansing.  Nonetheless Israel is regularly accused of genocide. What makes this accusation so disgusting is that Israel was created as a haven for the Jewish people who, after centuries of persecution, became the victims of the worst genocide ever perpetrated.The fact that some people who describe Israel’s campaign in Gaza as genocide are Jewish does not mean that the charge is justified. Some Individuals in Britain think that Russia is the victim of NATO aggression and no doubt are regularly quoted in the Russian press to justify the invasion of Ukraine. But that does not mean that Russia is in the right. An accusation is not justified or unjustified according to who makes it but according to the facts. Where is the evidence that Israel is trying to exterminate the Palestinian people?In reply to your question, Ed, as to whether these people are all anti-Semites, I would say that some of them are, including self-hating Jews.

Steven Rose ● 31d