Forum Topic

The inconsistencies of "climate change"

I love cows and I love beef.  I detest plastic!

Ivonne Holliday ● 63d63 Comments

https://wickedleeks.riverford.co.uk/features/regen-chicken-meet-the-plucky-producers/

Philippa Bond ● 31d

"And your answer is"Well, somebody has to.

David Ainsworth ● 31d

And your answer is

Andy Pike ● 31d

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/neeps-tattiesThe neeps and tatties soup looks good too.

Philippa Bond ● 31d

Why do we in Britain eat more ready meals than in the rest of the world?

Philippa Bond ● 31d

Well done Michael, you have managed to mention Brexit twice!

Sue Hammond ● 31d

I'm not, i'm just disproving your point that you can choose to eat chlorinated chicken or not.

Michael Brigo ● 31d

@MBJust stop eating chicken if you're that paranoid.🙄

Sue Hammond ● 31d

www.eattheseasons.co.uk is where I always went for seasonal inspiration.  It tells you what fruit and veg is in season locally and gives information on them and suggestions of recipes.  Eating locally produced food seasonally instead of expecting the same fruit and veg to be available all the year round makes a big difference to your carbon footprint.  It has meant that I have made the effort to try out different fruit and vegetables and different recipes.

Philippa Bond ● 31d

There's always neeps and tatties ...

Michael Ixer ● 33d

Fruit and veg would hardly come from Scotland so local would be a lot greener.Of course if you are going for fruit and veg out of season in Northern Europe then Southern Europe produce from Span, Greece etc will have a lot of miles on them.

Ed Robinson ● 33d

Ed. Yes, a great case for veganism! But I believe pre Brexit delays for fresh fruit and veg were minimal.

Michael Ixer ● 33d

Miles are not the same as time.Ports irrespective of customs will add time which will mean more fuel in the case of refrigerated goods and more cruelty with regards to livestock and sea crossings.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/28/eu-revealed-as-hub-for-cruel-live-animal-transport-amid-fears-of-disease

Ed Robinson ● 33d

Food miles are not governed by international borders. There may be fewer miles involved in transporting goods from Northern France, or possibly the Netherlands, than say Scotland or Northern Ireland. Must admit I've not checked the arithmetic on that ... but I remember having a debate at work that we might as do some work near Paris rather than, say, Edinburgh because the distance was less. Of course, that was pretty Brexit so one could use the EU queues.

Michael Ixer ● 33d

"Buy British was my message years ago during the endless Brexit debates when some members were hyperventilating about chloride chicken possibly coming into the U.K."How does that work if you buy something where chicken is just an ingredient?

Michael Brigo ● 33d

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj8q  22/11/2024Farming Today:  Danish methane tax and intensive chicken farm

Philippa Bond ● 34d

I agree Ed. Buy British was my message years ago during the endless Brexit debates when some members were hyperventilating about chloride chicken possibly coming into the U.K. 

Sue Hammond ● 36d

Good advice, Ed

Michael Ixer ● 36d

This is from March and is only about the supermarkets.https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/analysis-and-features/how-british-are-the-supermarkets-and-whats-behind-their-marketing-claims/689336.article

Philippa Bond ● 36d

"And the answer is ?"Look at the labels carefully and choose British if you can, which will have less air/road miles.

Ed Robinson ● 36d

And the answer is ?

Andy Pike ● 37d

Lots of Union Jacks in the supermarkets but how much of that food is British?  How much comes from real family farms?

Philippa Bond ● 37d

One programme this morning and I understand that there will be further on or touching on the subject this week.https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj8q

Philippa Bond ● 38d

What about the high emissions creating countries?  Whataboutery!How do you think that we have reduced our own country's emissions?  We are instead importing a lot of things from those countries - a lot necessary like the PVs and an awful lot - not.  We need to be more particular with where we buy from but don't think that they are so far behind us with clean technology that we needn't bother because they aren't.

Philippa Bond ● 40d

Not quite as good as the last one but still interesting:https://www.climateq.co.uk/resources/the-carbon-footprint-of-food/

Philippa Bond ● 40d

It sure isn't enough to just place info on the internet - you need to break into the local news.

Philippa Bond ● 40d

To quote Dead Ringers "holding COP meetings in oil producing locations like Baku is a bit like the Vegan Society holding its Christmas Dinner at the Aberdeen Steak House" (or something similar to that 🙂).

Michael Ixer ● 40d

Another reason why the Cops are a waste of time (and not because the global crisis is a myth: is that what Sue believes?) is that all the real decisions are taken elsewhere. For example, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism has found that the banks, despite having signed up to the Net Zero Alliance, have invested hugely in the fossil fuel industry.In short,* Banks with net zero pledges helped raise $1 trillion for companies expanding fossil fuels* Among them is NatWest, which may have broken climate pledge by funding BP* BP is developing a ‘carbon bomb’ in Azerbaijan, host of COP climate talksDetails here: https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2024-11-13/greenwashing-banks-raised-1-trillion-dollars-for-fossil-fuel-giants/

Richard Carter ● 40d

"..the best way to share information is to go global with it.."What we need is some form of global communication.I wonder why noone has invented it? 🤔

Ed Robinson ● 42d

'Page not found' Oh dear, never mind.  COP 29 was a complete waste of time, just like all the others have been. Unless China, India and America get round the table they will continue to be a pointless exercise. All was not lost though for stuffed-shirt Starmer because he got another chance to pontificate on a world stage even though it wasn't an important one, and nobody important bothered to go.

Sue Hammond ● 42d

Sadly, 404 error - page not found....

Ivonne Holliday ● 42d

Since it IS a global problem the best way to share information is to go global with it.  Despite trying hard to fo it has been beset by the problems of deniers , conspiracy theorists and those trying simply to feather their own nests - all of whom have been trying to ignore the stark warnings of the scientists who have known and tried to get governments to take action for tens of years.  There is a good diagram here of the differences in emissions created by the production of various foods:https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/science/climate-issues/food love

Philippa Bond ● 42d

"global problem"It may make more green sense to put these conferences in permanent orbit, probably save a few bob too.

Ed Robinson ● 43d

Wasn't Azerbaijan the first oil producing state 100 years ago? They are bound to be proud of this.  But for 50 years some major oil producing companies have known that our reliance on fossil fuels is a problem.  Yes, there have been plenty of complaints about those who choose to promote oil but these COPs don't just give a platform for oil producers!  There are plenty of conferences taking place there with people from all over the world.  After all this is a global problem.  Solutions are sought to warn and try and protect countries from the worst of the increasingly varied and extreme weather as well as to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.  You can read about them on the UNFCC website.  BTW the next big COP (No 30) will be in Brazil. There are other smaller global conferences on global problems as well.  We are one world and we share many things including our seas and skies...  something some people seem to forget!

Philippa Bond ● 43d

It's almost comical if it wasn't so tragic!In the opening speech the Azerbaijan host told how the EU asked them to double fossil fuel output.He didn't hold back what he thought. He got a good applause too!"Aliyev criticises Western nations' stance on fossil fuels at COP29 opening speech"https://www.euronews.com/2024/11/12/aliyev-criticises-western-nations-stance-on-fossil-fuels-at-cop29-opening-speechhttps://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/07/18/von-der-leyen-heads-to-azerbaijan-to-secure-new-gas-import-deal

Ed Robinson ● 43d

Keir Starmer flew thousands of miles to COP29 in Azerbaijan, an oil and gas producing country, in order to show 'moral leadership' in the move to stop climate change even though the main polluters, China, India and the USA did not bother to attend, and neither did France or Germany. What exactly did he achieve other than signal his virtue? Britain already has the most expensive energy in the world. Mad Ed Miliband is leading us into an economic disaster.

Steven Rose ● 44d

Hello IvonneIt's not a tangent it is a bigger picture.  I also understood that the majority of the beef that we buy comes from Ireland but that a lot of the beef in Ireland comes from South America.  Yet there are supposed to be sophisticated enough tests to tell nowadays whether there is horsemeat in the mix - which has in the past been found - as there was a scandal over that!

Philippa Bond ● 46d

https://www.nutritics.com/en/blog/5-reasons-why-nose-to-tail-cooking-is-more-relevant-than-ever/#:~:text='Nose%2Dto%2Dtail',still%20valued%20in%20many%20cultures.If you are going to raise animals to eat them then not wasting their lives is sensible  There used to be at least one company that didn't send an animal to the abattoir until they had pledges for each and every bit.  I suppose though for many they would probably prefer not to know!

Philippa Bond ● 48d

https://plasticbank.com/blog/which-country-is-the-most-accountable-for-ocean-plastic/This is an interesting website.  Research has shown for a long time that the biggest plastic polluters (or rather the most commonly found discarded plastic bottles are from Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola followed by other big names).  Here in the UK these are collected kerbside in our recycling collections. Unfortunately our long awaited Deposit Return System for plastic bottlesvand cans seems to have moved even further into the future.  Scotland's was to come first but it now seems all of the UK will have the same system at the same time and glass will not be included - but the plans have already changed many many times!  Many people have reduced and are reducing their use of plastic and carry their own refillable water bottles when out and about. Some single use plastic has already been banned in the UK and a lot of other countries (including in the developing world) have actually banned plastic carrier bags as when discarded they block drains allowing mosquito larvae to flourish and hatch in the still and stagnant water.I can't tell you how pleased I am to see that WRAP and the recycling locator website Recycle Now have received some funding again!

Philippa Bond ● 50d

It’s about control nothing to do with the climate.

Paul Beer ● 52d

Hello Philippa,You have gone into a tangent again.If you watch Countryfile you would know that the US style mega farms are not prevalent in the UK.As for knowing where food comes from, it is very murky waters particularly as the UK government decided that all imported foodstufs but packaged in the UK have UK as origin.  It is not the farmers' fault!

Ivonne Holliday ● 54d

Some of us are vegan for a number of reasons. 

Michael Ixer ● 54d

I worked with a Yorkshire chap for a couple of years in a very international team. When someone explained the cost range of Iberian ham to him he was shocked.Is it not better to work on improving standards in the UK than importing from aboard?Organic beef, the cattle have to spend at least 200 days outside (220 in Ireland).The headline in the link below is misleading because it refers to 8% of larger farms and 3% of smaller farms.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4ldkpz1klo.amp

Ed Robinson ● 54d

Hello IvonneBut the question is - do you really know where your food is coming from?  It is not always easy to know or to find out.  There is a campaign right now by farmers against the way that some supermarkets are giving the impression that the meat they are selling comes from farms that raise their stock on those idyllic fields in the pictures we'd love to be true.  How much branding and advertising and selling is under imaginary farm names and pictures I wonder?https://www.sustainweb.org/news/sep24-farmers-against-farmwashing-campaign/There should be more talk about this now because of the impact that the budget may have on smaller farms and the worry that we could end up with more of the type of farming in the US.  Farmers have enough of a tough time coping with the more changeable weather and runoff from farms into rivers and more..  This is a reason for me striving to never waste food and not allow myself to overeat in the process!  It saves money and allows you to try to choose more carefully where your food comes from.I do often watch Countryfile.

Philippa Bond ● 54d

Philippa, I think you are wrong.Cattle are reared in fields during the summer but are brought in during the winter. Please, watch a bit of Countryfile and you will learn.  Pigs are normally kept in styes though again brought in in winter.  The same applies for lambs and lambing season does happen indoors - just watch them being set free in spring!I do not think the UK has mega farms for cattle as the US does.  Sadly, we do have battery chickens which is horrific.

Ivonne Holliday ● 55d

Well that's the idyllic setting but sadly it is not how many farms rear their cattle nowadays.  There was a good documentary some years ago showing the mega farms in the US and the method that has been increasing in the UK.  This programme questioned how animals are being reared and how and where we are with changing and reducing some of our eating choices.  There is some info on that documentary and the choices we can make here:https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/meat_environment

Philippa Bond ● 55d

"In Dedham you can walk through.."No need to go that far.You can see cows in Richmond.Of course for you it may mean crossing the river so perhaps Dedham would be quicker!https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parks_and_open_spaces/find_a_park/petersham_meadows

Ed Robinson ● 55d

LOL  I do of course mean Constable-like.  In Dedham you can walk through the fields being grazed by cows by the river.

Philippa Bond ● 57d

It does seem though that little or nothing has progressed for a long time.  A major problem is that although we live in a pretty transient and changing population we don't seem as a nation to get enough reminders/updates all along the way to encourage us to keep going forward - and this can be from learning about materials and nature in the school curriculum upwards.The picture is interesting and shows plastics the like of which I hope we no longer see here in the UK AND also shows cows in a JMWTurner-like field which is sadly a decreasing sight as farming practices change.  How often do you see beef advertised as grass fed?https://viva.org.uk/planet/the-issues/food-waste/#:~:text=And%20of%20the%20263%20million,equivalent%20to%2075%20million%20cows.&text=Global%20Panel.,2018.Separating out food waste by using the food waste bin is a great way to see what you are actually wasting and tweak buying, storing, cooking and using up leftovers habits.  WRAP's Love Food Hate Waste website has led to many more websites including those of the supermarkets with lots of suggestions.  Waste less, save money and buy with thought and care!

Philippa Bond ● 57d

I didnt say it was sufficient. You said theres no packaging tax in the budget and i told you that that's because there's already one in place.Had you asked whether there would there should be an increase I would agree with you.Just being picky, like you.

Michael Brigo ● 57d

They are both the problem.  Plastic is a by-product of fossil fuels.  Unfortunately not as many bottles as could be recycled actually are.  Bottles are made of the easiest plastics to recycle.https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/shopping-sustainably/article/how-to-recycle-in-the-uk-Recycle Now the national recycling campaign for England and Northern Ireland has now updated (at last) its website.  www.recyclenow.comWRAP also now has a new website.  A terrific amount of effort has gone into lightweighting glass and metal packaging and redesigning to packaging to make it easier to separate or to flatten in the case of cardboard boxes for recycling.  Much more credit should be given to all the innovative solutions in this area.WRAP not only covers packaging but also food waste and textile waste. We need to waste far less of everything.www.wrap.ngo

Philippa Bond ● 58d

"Published 22 November 2023"So the Tory policy was sufficient was it?I think not!

Ed Robinson ● 58d

Of course the "climate change" lobby always ignore war too.Perhaps they think the more humans that get killed the better even if the planet has to take a hit.

Ed Robinson ● 58d

Is it not in the budget there's already a packaging tax in place?https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-plastic-packaging-tax-rates-from-1-april-2024/increase-to-plastic-packaging-tax-rates-from-1-april-2024

Michael Brigo ● 59d

I wholeheartedly hope you are wrong, Ed!

Ivonne Holliday ● 59d

There won't be a packaging tax in the budget. Nor a carbon tax on food as the UK seems determined to close farmers down and phase our home produce in favour or food with air miles or via shipping/roads

Ed Robinson ● 59d

Hello Lydia,I think you misunderstood my message.I do believe that climate change is happening.What I do not believe in is that it is the fault of cattle. More so, when you see the amount of plastic that is being thrown daily worldwide.

Ivonne Holliday ● 59d

The LSE (you know, actual experts) has an excellent article at the link below detailing why 'climate the movie' is a load of old tosh.https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/fake-graphs-and-daft-conspiracy-yarns-in-durkins-latest-propaganda-film/

Michael Brigo ● 59d

All the senior scientists - defunded and censored for telling another story (the earth has never been greener since CO2 levels - which rise AFTER the earth has warmed, naturally - nothing to do with man-made) - would agree with you.Climate: The Cold Truthhttps://youtu.be/KVX3xaEB5BY Climate the Movie Discussed – The White RoseCO2 the gas of lifehttps://climatethemovie.net

Lydia Tapping ● 59d

"I like venison but it's a bit dear :-)"Better go for chickens. They go cheap.

David Ainsworth ● 62d

And reduce the use of fossil fuels surely? (including the ever expanding production of plastic) the amount of C02 in the atmosphere is still increasing.

Michael Brigo ● 62d

I like venison but it's a bit dear :-)Grass fed beef is quite hard to find on the high street. Even organic label allows a large percentage of non grass last time I checked.More tree planting less carbon capture gimmicks.And make tap water great again.

Ed Robinson ● 63d

"I love cows and I love beef. I detest plastic!"I quite like cows and I do like beef, but I've never tried plastic.No, I'm wrong. I have:-"Chewing gum is basically plastic doped with flavours and colourings. It is non-digestible and water insoluble, which means you can carry on gnashing away at the stuff and it never seems to break down. This indestructible property comes from the gum base, the exact ingredients of which are usually a trade secret."https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/what-is-in-chewing-gum

David Ainsworth ● 63d