Forum Topic

WFA vote in Parliament

For those of us who need the winter fuel allowance but are not in receipt of pension credit email Fleur Anderson today at fleur.anderson.mp@parliament.uk asking her to vote AGAINST it being cancelled tomorrow.

Lucille Grant ● 48d53 Comments

Corbyn and McDonnell were got rid of. And it was a popular move. This is Starmer's Labour.Rachel Reeves warned us long ago."Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits, promises new welfare chiefRachel Reeves vows to cut welfare bill and force long-term jobless to take up work offers or lose state support"Guardian 2013:-https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/12/labour-benefits-tories-labour-rachel-reeves-welfareRachel Reeves did not serve in the Cabinet under Jeremy Corbyn.Jeremy Corbyn on Twitter 3 days ago:-"Cutting winter fuel allowance is not a tough choice. It's the wrong choice - and we will not be fooled by ministers’ attempts to feign regret over cruel decisions they don’t have to take."John McDonnell 3 days ago:-"I spoke today to oppose the government’s proposal to cut Winter Fuel Allowance. I voted against this because it will not only cause real hardship for many of my constituents this winter there is a real risk some will die."https://x.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1833531020286496965

David Ainsworth ● 44d

From inews.co.uk - 9 September 2024'Labour’s own analysis said 4,000 pensioners could die if winter fuel payments are cut.The figures were published during the 2017 election campaign, when Jeremy Corbyn led the party.At the time, then-prime minister Theresa May said the payments would be removed from all but the poorest pensioners.The Conservatives indicated they would means-test the payments (as Sir Keir Starmer is now doing) but had not committed to a method of doing so.Labour cited research saying that half of the almost 10,000 decrease in so-called “excess winter deaths” – the rise in mortality that happens each winter – between 2000 and 2012 was because of the introduction of the winter fuel allowance.Deaths among the elderly in winter fell from around 34,000 to 24,000 during this period, according to the report.Then-chancellor John McDonnell said: “The truth about the Tories’ plans for older people in our country needs to be known. Re-electing the Tories will represent the single biggest attack on pensioners in a generation in our country.“Removing the winter fuel payments from millions of pensioners could leave thousands of the most vulnerable at even more risk this winter.“On top of their dementia tax, it means that pensioners in our country will struggle to heat their homes and keep their homes under the Tories.”At the time, the Conservatives rejected the claims and said Labour were “irresponsible scaremongering”.On Sunday, Mr McDonnell was asked if he believed some pensioners “will die” as a result of what Rachel Reeves is proposing, and he told LBC: “Yes. That’s not me speaking.”He said Labour MPs had met with various groups representing older people, including Age UK, which said “this is a real risk” because “we have these excess deaths in winter”.But this of course was before Chancellor Reeves discovered her 'black hole'😉

John Hawkes ● 44d

What they are doing and continually saying, the elderly won't last till it's really cold. It's on the news non stop, it's like a wind up. Most elderly have worked all their lives, paid NHS and Tax. Why even do they want to tax us on what is ours, if we get interest it's ours. They are now wanting to stop the Council tax reduction for people on their own, that includes everybody not just the elderly. I never voted Labour. We were given a lot from Conservative when they were in regarding Fuel allowance. What with Sadiq Khan and now this Pr-t. As for Fleur Anderson, as I said she's only good at getting attention for herself, waving her banners.

Barbara Stevens ● 45d

Contributors to the Forum who are members of Putney Labour might wish to consider whether they want Fleur Anderson to continue to represent them or whether indeed they want to remain members of the Party themselves.

Steven Rose ● 45d

This is truly shameful for a Labour Government.  This will haunt Labour in the future and l think each an every Labour MP who abstained have shown their true colours.  No you don’t matter as a pensioner.  One rule for them and another for everyone else.

Robert Wheeler ● 45d

It seems that Rachel Reeves, who has decided to scrap winter fuel payments for millions of pensioners, has claimed £3700 of taxpayers’ money towards heating bills in her second home over the last five years. And Liz Kendall, who spent the weekend ringing round MPs to stave off a rebellion on the issue, has claimed £5700 over the same period. Angela Rayner has claimed £5200, Liam Byrne £18400, Yasmin Qureshi £11800 and Naz Shah £10300. Altogether Labour MPs have claimed over £400 000 since 2019.

Steven Rose ● 45d

@LucilleExactly Lucille,  Abstaining in a vote is in effect voting with the Government, so we can confidently assume that Anderson is quite happy for pensioners to lose the WFA. She is just like all the other cowards who prioritised not losing the whip above their responsibility to act in the best interest for their constituents. 'Act' being the operative word because FA and all the other abstainers are just dancing to Starmer's tune. Pathetic!

Sue Hammond ● 46d

Abstaining is sometimes valid when in opposition.For example Labour should have abstained on the Brexit deal. Government had enough to pass it but it wasn't a good deal so abstaining would be appropriate. It was their bill let them own it.When in government however abstaining or just missing is a vote for the proposal as the default is that it will pass.When it comes voting time look at their voting record and vote accordingly.Personally I think if you local MP is inclined to abstain when they should oppose I wouldn't vote for them.

Ed Robinson ● 46d

Clever.So we still don't really know where she stands on the issue.Perhaps she will enlighten us via her website.

John Hawkes ● 46d

Couldn't have the principle of voting against the government. Worried about her career instead of her elderly constituents.Shameful.

Lucille Grant ● 46d

I just saw this on the UK Parliament website and it appears that Fleur Anderson abstained..https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/1840#notrecorded

Ivonne Holliday ● 46d

I think this repeated mouthing of statements that are not based upon fact is called 'gaslighting'.(Probably in reality many elderly people will not be able to afford such a process !).Politics is nothing more these days than making commitments you have no intention or worse no ability to carry out and blaming the previous regime for the fact.So childish, but this Labour Government seems to have it as a modus operandi.What I would like to see is a list of these commitments.Hopefully they will have a measurable basis, the achievement of such we can assess at the end of this period of Government, when the baleful legacy of the previous Conservative Government and its malignant 'black hole' have been addressed.Anyone seen such a list ?

John Hawkes ● 46d

What exactly is meant by ‘the mess left by the Tories’? In the first three months of this year the UK was the fastest growing economy in the G7 and by the end of Rishi Sunak’s term in office inflation was down to 2%.  Labour’s planned tax rises will deter investment and slow down growth while the excessive pay awards made to the public sector unions will increase inflation.

Steven Rose ● 46d

Not paying the WFA will save £1.5 billion."The Labour guest was Lucy Powell. She claimed there'd be a run on the pound if they didn't abolish the WFA".'I suppose Ms Powell was instructed to say that, but what kind of fool do they take me for'?More to the point what sort of fool is Lucy Powell ?Certainly knows nothing about economics or industry.'Prior to her election, she worked in campaigning and PR roles for Britain in Europe, NESTA and the Labour Party'.Typical of so many Labour MPs.Never had a proper job outside of the 'charity sector'.Not a dissimilar CV to that of Fleur Anderson.'With a 2022 gross domestic product (GDP) of $3.07 trillion, the United Kingdom has the sixth-largest economy in the world'.But Labour says £1.5 billion extra expenditure will cripple it !I think we can leave Labour to do that job for us !

John Hawkes ● 46d

I do think Reeves and Starmer have misjudged the feeling of Labour supporters. Had he raised income tax in the, or introduced a new, higher rate band, breaking his - some would say unwise - promises would have been forgiven given the mess left by the Tories. Penalising poorer pensioners will perhaps make Labour Party members question their membership and, while it won't help the Conservatives, might benefit the Greens or LibDems ... 

Michael Ixer ● 47d

I was listening to Radio 4's The Westminster Hour Sunday before last.  The Labour guest was Lucy Powell. She claimed there'd be a run on the pound if they didn't abolish the WFA. Well, I was getting ready for bed and a bit tired but I thought, does she really believe that? Sterling's doing quite well at the moment, nothing to do with us, rather expectations that the Fed will cut, though we know Sterling can plummet - remember Liz Truss? But for the, in the general scheme of things modest amount of the WFA? I suppose Ms Powell was instructed to say that, but what kind of fool do they take me for?

Elizabeth Balsom ● 47d

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13831331/John-McDonnell-Keir-Starmers-new-Government-policies-originally-proposed-Jeremy-Corbyn.htmlThe above speaks for itself.Starmer was a supporter of these policies to get elected leader of the Party but then knowing Corbyn and anything Corbynish was anathema to the general public he dropped them and him.He is a typical lawyer; no deeply held views of his own but a mouthpiece for whatever his client (here it is himself) needs to have said to advance his case.And he and Chancellor Reeves will reward their paymasters from the 'inherited black hole'.Hence train drivers get a pay rise of c.£5K BACKDATED taking their salary to c.£70,000 pa for a 4 day week: yet no promises not to strike.What a rigorous negotiator is Ms Reeves.Hope she is not promoted to replace Lammy as Foreign Secretary as Putin would have a field day.The claim this payment was a good deal because strikes would have been costlier is a bit like saying "I let the burglars into my house as if not I would have had to pay for the repairs of their threated kicking-in of my front door" ! Pensioners of course vote Tory; perhaps a myth but more than likely true for a majority.Wisdom comes with age !So need to worry about offending them.As for our MP Fleur Anderson, she is unlikely to rock the boat as her power base in the Putney constituency I would hazard a guess is made up of the affluent leftie youngish middle classes or the richer retirees for whom the WFP is no more than a weekly shop at Waitrose.And she is on the Ministerial ladder and won't put that at risk.More likely "pull it up Kier; I'm all right".

John Hawkes ● 47d

Scene: the Prime Minister’s office. Keir Starmer, with a red and white scarf around his neck, is reading an Arsenal fanzine. Enter his political advisor.Advisor: Prime Minister, the Chancellor is here to see you.Starmer: Oh, right.Enter Rachel Reeves.Reeves: Prime Minister, I have decided that we are going to cut the winter fuel allowance for most pensioners this winter.Starmer: Oh, why is that?Reeves: Because the Treasury says there will be a run on the pound if we don’t.Starmer: What’s that?Reeves: You know. It’s when foreigners start selling their English money.Starmer: Oh, I see. But didn’t we call it heartless when the Tories suggested cutting the fuel allowance  in the past?Advisor: Don’t worry, Prime Minister. That was several years ago and no one will remember. In any case we can always blame the Tories for getting us into this situation. You know, the black hole and all that.Starmer: Oh yes, I remember now.Reeves: I am afraid there’s no alternative. We have got to find the money to pay off the doctors.Starmer: I think I read in the papers that they are asking for a 35% pay increase. It seems rather a lot to me.Reeves: Well we won’t give them everything they want, of course. We’ll just offer them 22%.Starmer: How am I going to explain that when Laura What’shername asks me about it on TV?Reeves: You just say it’s cheaper to reach a settlement with the doctors than bear the cost of the strikes.Starmer: Well I have always been pro-trade Union. My father was a tool maker, you know.Reeves: I seem to remember your mentioning that.Starmer: But getting back to the winter fuel allowance, won’t some of the Party be upset about the cut? That Fleur Anderson, for example, who I just promoted to the Cabinet. Wasn’t she head of the Methodist Youth Action or something?Advisor: Don’t worry about her. The Whips will tell her that if she votes against the government she will be sitting with Jeremy Corbyn as an independent MP.

Steven Rose ● 47d

You're prescient Elizabethhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/09/labour-refuses-to-rule-out-scrapping-bus-passes-pensioners/'A government minister has failed to rule out means testing free bus passes for pensioners.Lord Hendy, the rail minister, was asked on Monday to promise the benefit would not be restricted to the poorest pensioners.He played down the likelihood of a change but said given the state of the public finances he could not offer a “concrete commitment for all time”.The comments are likely to fuel speculation that the Government could at some point decide that not all pensioners should get free bus passes.'

Lucille Grant ● 47d

Yes, most probably, they just don't like pensioners.  Even on the News, their hoping 4000 oldens die, so they won't have to pay their pensions then, saving them more money. Not only that with the prices going up, even youngsters renting which these days is a lot of money, they also have to eat and pay bills. I've also just had a message saying British gas is going up.

Barbara Stevens ● 47d

I'm thinking of strolling into Paddy Power and asking what odds they're offering on losing the Freedom Pass. I suspect that's next to go.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 47d

They had 2 of their number on newsmight last night justifying it on the basis pensioners have never had it so good. £900 increase last year and £400 to come this year. Never said why that was ie inflation last year and average earnings this year ie the triple lock.Just banged on about their £ 20 m black hole £9m of which is their largesse to their union sponsors another £6 m is ongoing support for Ukraine how on earth do they say they were sueprises ? Unless they had some news from the Kremlin that the war would stop at the end if last financial year.

Andy Pike ● 47d

If you google you can get the house of commons phone number and ask to speak to her Secretary.  Bring back Justine Greening.

Barbara Stevens ● 47d

It was proposed by a Conservative Government in 2017 and Labour condemned it saying it was heartless.  Labour MPs have now shown their true colours.  They are not in opposition any more and their actions have consequences that the public will not forget.  This is not like Covid that was an unknown, their own research shows 4000 people could die.  Yes definitely Labour is a party for all the people not the few.

Robert Wheeler ● 47d

Apparently a poll published today shows that 42% of the public disapprove of Labour’s policy on WFA compared to 39% who support it, an astonishingly small margin of opposition. Clearly large numbers of people in this country, especially young voters, think that pensioners have got it too easy, which is shocking in itself. But what I find most sickening is the sight of Labour MPs lining up to justify a measure which in Opposition they would have condemned out of hand if it had been proposed by the Conservatives.

Steven Rose ● 47d

Simply not turning up is a vote for the government.Don't be fooled by this nonsense.

Ed Robinson ● 47d

Have you considered diesel heating?Very economical and approved by NHS and Putney's MP. After all they have been using it at Queen Mary's Hospital for years and will continue to do so for a few more years.

Ed Robinson ● 47d

They don't have the balls to do what is right. All too afraid of losing the whip but hopefully they will all lose their jobs at the next GE.

Sue Hammond ● 47d

Sue, I am sorry to hear this and I hope you have a better winter this year.

Martine Guy ● 47d

What is the matter with these people?  If the people who elected you and the people who are funding you say it is the wrong policy how pig-headed do you have to be not to listen?

Robert Wheeler ● 47d

A meeting regarding this policy has recently concluded in Westminster and a Labour MP has spoken to the LBC reporter. Apparently Starmer and Reeves were extremely bullish and determined not to reverse the policy and Starmer outright threatened to remove the whip to anyone who voted against it. He will inevitably win the vote tomorrow but this issue will be the start of his downfall.

Sue Hammond ● 47d

"I still think Captain Flip-Flop will flip under pressure but he will spin it into an act of his heroic altruism."Well, he is a politician, after all. Let's hope he does flip.

David Ainsworth ● 47d

Starmer is obvious out of his depth.  Why would you go for a policy that you already had the data for that said you could kill nearly 4,000 of your population in 2017.  All this before energy costs will go through the roof.Of course Labour MPs will toe the line but voters will remember how their MP voted.  They should remember they are there to represent their constituents not play party politics.What on earth are they going to stuff up next.  Majority of papers are already calling the Chancellor “Rachel Fool”.

Robert Wheeler ● 47d

If Starmer keeps removing the whip every time his backbenchers vote against him he'll soon lose his majority. The fact that his union backers think removing the WFA is wrong should tell him something.

Lucille Grant ● 47d

There is a discussion to be had about means testing benefits.  If benefits are universal, it is clear that money will sometimes go to people who don’t need it when it should be directed to people who do. But it is clear that Labour’s decision to withhold WFA from pensioners  except those on pension credit is wrong. In the first place there are an estimated 880 000 households in this country which  are entitled to pension credit but have not claimed it. This may have something to do with the fact that you have to fill out a 22 page form with 243 questions to access the payment. And even if you do manage to fill out the questionnaire there is currently a two month wait to get  any money. But secondly many pensioners who are not eligible for pension credit are still likely to face unaffordable heating bills this winter.Keir Starmer’s justification for this cruel policy, that the government needs to fill a £22 billion black hole left by the Tories , is clearly misleading. Around £9 billion of the £22 billion is made up of the inflationary pay awards made to the doctors, train drivers, teachers and other public servants this summer. If, for example, the government can afford to  give the train drivers  £6000 each in backdated wages (including those who have left the job) plus an increase of 4.5 % this year, taking their salary to around £70k pa, costing up to £100 million, how come there is not enough money to keep pensioners warm this winter?The interesting question is why Keir Starmer has taken this decision. My explanation is that he is completely out of his depth as a prime minister. He is simply a radical lawyer with no understanding of economics who has been promoted above his abilities. Since becoming Labour leader he has realised that many of the left wing policies he believed in are simply unrealistic, if not plain stupid. So now he doesn’t know what he believes.  There is a vacuum in his mind where there used to be a political philosophy. So when Rachel Reeves, influenced by Treasury officials, tells him that the country can’t afford WFA, he doesn’t have the knowledge or the political nous to resist. When a she tells him it is cheaper to pay the doctors what they want than bearing the cost of strikes, he  goes along with it even though this will encourage other public sector unions to make inflationary pay demands.I don’t think he can now afford to drop the policy on WFA for fear of losing all authority as  Prime Minister. And I fear that the threat of losing the Labour whip will deter Fleur Anderson from voting against the government.

Steven Rose ● 47d

When the election was called and Parliament dissolved I emailed Putney Labour asking what was Labour's policy on Heathrow and on defence. No acknowledgement.But I suppose one can live in hope.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 47d

Hopefully!

Lucille Grant ● 47d

Hi Lucille. I am also with Octopus and have just switched to a fixed tariff deal so I am hoping that will make a difference.

Sue Hammond ● 47d

I'm so sorry Sue. I hope you won't fall ill again this winter. I have a fixed sum through Octopus for both electricity and gas currently £102 per month for a 2 bed flat.

Lucille Grant ● 47d

@ Ivonne 12-14Thanks Ivonne, I will email them too.

Sue Hammond ● 48d

Thank you Lucille,I have written to her at her parliament.uk account and to the general email address for the Putney Labour office.  I hope somebody does reply.

Ivonne Holliday ● 48d

It would perhaps be a good idea to email the Putney Labour Office as well.35 Felsham Road,Putney SW15 1AYTel.: 020 8788 8961contact@putneylabour.org.ukSomebody has to reply!

Ivonne Holliday ● 48d

Sue. The dread of all IT people, although I've seen one of my colleagues who was a Windows expert fix one of those on one of our servers.Very sorry to hear of your problems, Sue. I think Starmer and Reeves may have fallen into a trap here. Oddly, this may have been because of IT constraints. I could image civil servants saying playing around with other taxes/benefits, etc can't be done immediately because of the time taken to modify IT systems but it's easy for the DWP systems to just check if someone is getting pension credit and only pay the Winter Fuel payment to them, thus saving money immediately rather than in a future tax year? Just a guess...

Michael Ixer ● 48d

@ Michael Your post brought back memories of the dreaded blue screen of death!🙀

Sue Hammond ● 48d

Robert. There are a number of reasons why automated responses might be disabled ...https://www.stat.ubc.ca/what-are-risks-using-email-auto-reply#:~:text=Email%20addresses%20that%20collect%20replies,to%20cause%20mail%20delivery%20problems.I'd forgotten about the mail loop of death; a couple of decades ago a colleague maged to crash our email system by filling up the recipients email box and ours with an looped exchange of automated message.I don't know what threats the parliamentary systems currently face but I bet the Russian fancy bears are working hard at breaking them 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 48d

Yes, Sue, the report I heard on the BBC was that a number of Labour MPs would arrange to have business meetings away from parliament tomorrow and hence be registered as abstaining. 

Michael Ixer ● 48d

I want to add something about the vote tomorrow. I was listening to LBC (as usual) yesterday and like all media broadcasters the station has its own representative in Westminster. They are allowed to roam around and speak to any MPs who are present in the lobby and are willing to talk to them. LBC's reporter (sorry I have forgotten her name) had the informed impression that Labour were hard-whipping their MPs to support the Government's WFA policy or risk having the whip removed if they vote against Starmer. I suspect there won't be many who will risk that but many will abstain instead especially all the newly appointed MPs. I still think Captain Flip-Flop will flip under pressure but he will spin it into an act of his heroic altruism.

Sue Hammond ● 48d

Perhaps Fleur could hold up a banner what she is good at, to let everybody know she has received your message.

Barbara Stevens ● 48d

Thankyou Lucille for your post because I am in the same boat as you. My little house is all electric and I currently have to pay £170 pm to my energy provider and worryingly my dd will increase in October when the energy cap is lifted. In January 2023 I was admitted to hospital as an emergency after feeling very unwell and my temperature had dropped to 31.5. I had hypothermia which developed into 'cold sepsis' which I had never even heard but ultimately I spent 9 months in hospital and rehab but sadly lost all mobility.  It is imperative that I keep warm this Winter

Sue Hammond ● 48d

What really infuriates me is that we pay for the heating of all MPs whilst also sending £160 million to help reduce emissions in developing countries.When Theresa May first put forward this proposal in 2017 Labour’s own election campaign published analysis that excess deaths could be nearly 4,000.  Even their own Health Minister is against this but is under pressure to vote with the Government.Starmer was the first to criticise the chaos of the Johnson Government but so far his is becoming farcical.  You have special advisers, not elected by the public seeing confidential documents (Alan Milburn) without due process having taken place.  This WFA which will haunt Labour in future.

Robert Wheeler ● 48d

That's interesting, her email account used to send automated responses but I've just noticed my last email didn't get an automated response.  I wonder if that's just Fleur's email account or whether there's been a policy change in the parliamentary IT department.  Obviously, sending out automated responses advertises to a "bot" that the email address is valid. Some companies don't use out of office responses for a similar reason.

Michael Ixer ● 48d

I had the same experience when I sent a simple email about the refusal to support the Edinburgh "super" computer.Whether or not one can afford to turn on the heating with or without the WFA, the way it was announced out of the blue is cause for concern. I wonder what else they've got up their sleeve over the coming five years.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 48d

Thank you Lucille.  I emailed Fleur weeks ago, no simple acknowledgement of the email or response.  Why doesn’t she have an automated response set up so at least constituents know she has received their views.This WFA cut is shameful and certainly a choice by this Government.

Robert Wheeler ● 48d