Forum Topic

The Great Wealth Transfer

"People who were born between 1946 and 1964, the so called Baby Boomer Generation, is a cohort of 16.8 million people; and due to favourable financial conditions in that time are the wealthiest generation in human history, holding somewhere in the region on 80% of the UK’s wealth.With the older baby boomer now 78 years old, and against a backdrop of an average age of death of 80.7 in the UK, we are about to see the largest transition of wealth from one generation to another ever; in what has become known as The Great Wealth Transfer."https://todayswillsandprobate.co.uk/the-great-wealth-transfer/#:~:text=With%20the%20older%20baby%20boomer,as%20The%20Great%20Wealth%20Transfer.

David Ainsworth ● 52d36 Comments

Schools are very keen for their pupils to get good results so that the schools rate well in league tables. Do you think  they can be so keen on their own results that this is detrimental to the futures of their students?

Philippa Bond ● 50d

My understanding was that the drivers earning c£80,000 were working overtime - a necessity because of a shortage of drivers. Of course, averages can be misleading. One assumes that figure is an arithmetic mean rather than a median or a mode of the salaries, but we can't be sure.

Michael Ixer ● 51d

I confess I cannot find where it was stated that train drivers have been awarded a pay rise funded by Chancellor Reeves' 'black hole' giving them a salary of £80K for a 4 day week.However BBC News on 14 August states -'Under the new Labour government, senior officials began direct pay talks with Aslef bosses last month.Industrial action has continued since Aslef last rejected a pay offer back in April 2023. More recently the union’s tactic has been to spread walkouts over several days, with different operators affected on each day.The package included successive pay rises of 4%, which the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train companies, said would bring the average annual pay for a driver to £65,000.According to the Rail Delivery Group, the average train driver salary across the network in 2023 was £60,055'.Note this is AVERAGE pay so that quite possible some will earn c.£80K pa.

John Hawkes ● 51d

Do you think that parents and schools do enough to show and consider alternative qualifications and practical experience?

Philippa Bond ● 51d

I think I may have mentioned it in a previous thread as a son of one of my cousins is doing one in accountancy. 

Michael Ixer ● 51d

For some people degree apprenticeships might be a good solution.A degree apprenticeship gives you the opportunity to gain a paid-for degree while getting industry experience and earning a salary. I think these degrees were mentioned in a previous thread.

Jane Carter ● 51d

"It's interesting that in the 1950s.."Let's not forget Iran's contribution to the UK finances - still not officially acknowledged by the UK.The 50's were hard times for many. I recall the story told by a son of a cyclist - his dad was on his way to work and was fined when he failed to put his foot down when stationary at lights. The family struggled to recover. True or not it illustrates just how harsh things were.With jobs and housing even a year can make a huge difference. A friend who bought a flat in the 80's saw it double in value within a year. Also jobs in the late 70's you could pick or choose but a couple of years later unemployment rocketed and apprenticeships disappeared.Some of these changes happen very quickly. I worked with a lot of people that simply handed their keys in as they could no longer afford Lawson's 15%+ interest rates. These were people with well paid IT jobs.Robert is right to illustrate the reality of student debt and the housing situation. Leaving uni with more debt than what many owed on their mortgages is a scandal not to mention that rules can be changed retrospectively because it is the government.The UK has sold all its assets but oddly seems to have replaced it with student loans at high interest - a modern form of bondage.

Ed Robinson ● 51d

I agree, Philippa.

Steven Rose ● 51d

There have been attempts to bring back apprenticeships but we don't have so many big manufacturing companies as we used to have.  I did once know of a plumbing company that offered apprenticeships but nowadays everyone seems to be self-employed. That was because the owner was passionate about the usefulness of apprenticeships.We also don't have all the evening classes that we used to have.  Many people have disrupted childhoods and find it easier to concentrate and learn once they have left school and have found work that they don't want to do and have some idea of what they would like to do.  I think it is much easier to learn in a class with a teacher and fellow classmates than try and do an online course.

Philippa Bond ● 51d

Where does the figure for train drivers earning £80,000 pounds come from?

Philippa Bond ● 51d

There is also the issue, though maybe this is best left for another thread, of what a university education is for.

Steven Rose ● 51d

Just to elaborate on that, Steven. I think because of the change in emphasis from routine manufacturing type jobs in the 60s/70s to information/knowledge processing jobs in the 90s there was a need for more people t have degree level education. (For example in the early 1970s there was no Computer Science BSc, only an MSc, but everyone - well most people - were put on a course to learn Fortran programming. By the 1990s there was a need for computer and data sciences degrees as well as traditional STEM ones.) However, I'd agree it was taken too far; yes, apprenticeships would have been more appropriate for some.

Michael Ixer ● 51d

As I said, Steven: "Of course, academic tertiary education isn't for everyone ..."

Michael Ixer ● 51d

Totally agree, Steven.  I also think they should bring back polytecnics.

Martine Guy ● 51d

Michael, I think we all agree that all young people need to acquire appropriate knowledge and skills to equip them for adult life. The question is whether half of young people need to obtain these skills on 3 year degree courses which cost the government £7 billion per year to maintain and which leave students with an average debt of £45k before they even start on their working lives. Surely a pathway of apprenticeships and internships, where students can earn while learning on the job, would be cheaper and more suitable in many cases.

Steven Rose ● 51d

David, I guess you were making straightforward, easy to understand posts about local history (I won’t be going back through old posts to check).  

Martine Guy ● 51d

"I don’t understand David’s posts or the point he is trying to make.  He might as well be talking in riddle-me-ree as far as I am concerned."I see. Last year I thought that you understood my posts about the history of Sainsbury's site on PHS.

David Ainsworth ● 51d

*nailed it

Sue Hammond ● 52d

@StevenYou mailed it, and if Rayner does give Councils permission to remove the 25% single occupancy discount, that will be another nail in Labour's coffin. Their honeymoon period didn't even start so it doesn't bode well for them anyway. The 2021 Census showed that 18.6% of the population were over 65 and is expected to increase further in the coming years, as life expectancy rises and the baby boomer generation reaches pensionable age.3.6 million of them lived alone and that figure has probably also risen. Elderly people are apparently the most diligent demographic of society to vote so here's a bit of advice for Labour. Impoverishing and pi$$ing off pensioners is really not a good idea!You're welcome.

Sue Hammond ● 52d

This raises an interesting point about the government's role in education. Surely, in the times where the UK's economy was becoming increasingly dependent on high tech innovation and manufacturing the government was right to encourage more young people to take university courses? So I'd disagree with Mr Rose laying the blame for education finance problems at the door of Mr Blair - investing in educating young adults is investing in the country's future. Mr Hawkes (as noted on another thread) is right to some extent that perhaps many youngsters didn’t choose their courses wisely. However, I don't think many of us who did STEM subjects at university would want the world to be inhabited by solely by mathematicians, scientists and engineers; we enjoy going to plays, concerts, opera and art galleries so it's equaly important that media, performing arts and music courses are part of the nations tertiary education. Additionally, sports seem to be highly technical these days and football, tennis, athletics, motor racing, etc success prized by its followers. Hence, training in sports sciences and coaching is important - and, don't forget, F1 drivers are some of the fittest sports people in orded to survive those G-forces from linear, radial and angular acceleration. Of course, academic tertiary education isn't for everyone, and completing a degree isn't necessary for entrepreneurial success - as evidenced by the likes of Bill Gates and Richard Branson. There needs to be properly financed technical and practical skills course for those that wish to be car mechanics, electricians, plumbers, plasterers, gas fitters, etc (although these day car mechanics probably also need to be software engineers ...). I was told (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I was mislead) that Polish workmen are highly prized because the old communist/socialist government had invested in training in these practical skills and instilling a culture of doing a professional job.

Michael Ixer ● 52d

'"If people have earned their money, paid numerous taxes and lived law abiding lives who are you to say they should not decide what to do with their funds."Do you not after all care that "Many pensioners will not survive this winter" then?Non sequitur surely ?We should pay tax to defend our country and provide sufficient support for our wellbeing and that of those less fortunate than us.After that we should be able to do what is legally allowed with our wealth.Nobody else's business. It is Labour's Chancellor Reeves who does not agree with this - withdrawing the WFA, giving bumper pay rises to train drivers earning £80,000 a year for a 4 day week and threatening higher taxes.

John Hawkes ● 52d

🎼"It's the same, the whole world over,Ain't it all a bleeding shame.It's the rich what gets the pleasure,And the poor what gets the blame".So we Boomers are lucky.True I suppose but not much I could do about it really.Seems a bit churlish to blame my father for surviving the war in the Far East and coming home to sire me.And wasn't I selfish for taking advantage of the opportunity to go to university."First in my family etc etc.."Difficult in the '60s in that one had to work diligently at school to gain one of a relatively few number of places, but easier financially as the restricted number meant the state could fund me. And after graduation getting a good job and worst of all saving and investing my income (no inherited wealth unfortunately).Good news for my children and grandchildren but then looking out for them is what family life is all about.Life's a bit of a lottery and always will be.Some win, some lose.As Marilyn Monroe said in 'Some like it hot' - "That's the story of my life; I always get the fuzzy end of the lollipop".I was lucky and got a lollipop still in its wrapper !

John Hawkes ● 52d

Well said Steven and some of the so called “progressives” could stop calling normal Putney folk “extremists” for bog standard normal views.  All about division.

Robert Wheeler ● 52d

In an interesting article in today’s ’Telegraph’ Matthew Lynn suggests that Labour in a weird neo-Marxist analysis have substituted generational conflict for class conflict, in which downtrodden  millennials take the place of the proletariat.  Labour are determined to punish a supposedly privileged elite, namely pensioners, who are seen as ‘undertaxed’. So in addition to removing the winter fuel allowance from hundreds of thousands of pensioners, Angela Rayner  is also considering allowing councils to remove the 25% discount on council tax currently allowed for single occupancy homes. This, if implemented, will cruelly  affect pensioners who have lost their partner. It also seems likely that the Autumn budget will involve some kind of raid on pension funds. Perhaps some of those who argued on the Forum during the election that ‘the country is crying out for change’ might now be wondering why they voted Labour.

Steven Rose ● 52d

I don’t understand David’s posts or the point he is trying to make.  He might as well be talking in riddle-me-ree as far as I am concerned.  

Martine Guy ● 52d

I quite enjoy his posts.Quite why people shouldn't be asked to back up their assertions is beyond me, nothing wrong with asking for examples.

Michael Brigo ● 52d

David Ainsworth has a right to express his views on the Forum, just as other contributors have the right to decline to engage with him. Anyone who writes, ‘I don’t do straight answers’, in order to justify his habit of questioning other people’s views while declining to state his own, or who writes ‘my gaff, my rules’ in order to justify highjacking a thread which he started on a different topic, or who writes, ‘examples, please’, as if he were marking a sixth form essay, has only himself if other contributors get annoyed.

Steven Rose ● 52d

Young people nowadays face at least two problems that my generation were spared: tuition fees and the spiralling cost of housing. The need to impose tuition fees was the result of Tony Blair’s misguided pledge  to send 50% of young people to university. The number of people studying on degree courses meant that the cost could no longer be borne by the public purse alone. The high cost of housing is a result of housing shortages exacerbated by the increase in the UK population, which has grown by 10 million since the beginning of the century. Most of the increase is due to net immigration, which took off with EU expansion in 2004 and has continued ever since. The difficulty faced by young people in paying for their education and getting on the housing ladder is the result of mistaken government policies. The older generation cannot be blamed for having studied when education was free or for having worked all their lives to pay off a mortgage when this was more affordable. So I don’t think a transfer of wealth from the old to the young is justified, let alone a cut in the benefits given to pensioners. However, Robert, I don’t think it is worth discussing this issue with David Ainsworth, whose modus operandi on this forum has been accurately characterised by Sue Hammond in her latest post.

Steven Rose ● 52d

I can’t see how quoting from a web site concerning wills and probate is starting a contentious thread. We are not at a police station or in a court of law. No one has to answer questions, especially closed ones. I dont share David’s political views but he is not a troll and has as much right to be on this forum as anyone else. Unlike some others, he never descends to ad hominem criticism.

Jane Carter ● 52d

@ Robert 16.24Robert. DA is up to his tedious tricks again. He regularly starts contentious threads, posts provocative comments, evades answering questions by asking one instead, uses diversionary tactics by changing the subject header etc, in fact anything to hijack a thread to try and take-over and divert the discussion his way. He is either an attention seeker, a control freak or a troll. Don't feed the trolls!

Sue Hammond ● 52d

David Starmer has made a definite choice for this WFA cut.  He could have given public sector workers less but chose not to.Life is all about choices and this shows Labour Government’s true colours.  Who would have thought that you need to penalise pensioners to stabilise this country’s budget!

Robert Wheeler ● 52d

"If people have earned their money, paid numerous taxes and lived law abiding lives who are you to say they should not decide what to do with their funds."Do you not after all care that "Many pensioners will not survive this winter" then?

David Ainsworth ● 52d

I'm not sure how well these comparisons work. It's interesting that in the 1950s my parents bought a house in West Green based on his motor mechanic's salary (although prior to her giving up work as a secretary she probably contributed to the deposit), I got a grant in the 1970s to go to university, and I guess in the 1960s we benefited from cheapish north sea gas enabling central heating? I wonder how many mechanics can buy a house in London these day on just one salary, university students end up with massive debts and energy costs are escalating ...

Michael Ixer ● 52d

You are obviously concerned about your own wealth David are you afraid your communist chums will come for you first.If people have earned their money, paid numerous taxes and lived law abiding lives who are you to say they should not decide what to do with their funds.  I didn’t vote for this division and Labour and you will have find another enemy (used to be the rich but now it is the old).

Robert Wheeler ● 52d

So you don't believe that 80% is a correct figure? Or should it just not be mentioned?

David Ainsworth ● 52d

Yet more drivel on divide and separate as opposed to unite.  This mantra of young vs old is very very dangerous.  Post war generation grew up with rationing in place, no central heating and the Government had to give schools milk due to rickets in primary school children.  They went through economic boom and bust, miners strike, 3 day working week, negative equity in the 1980s but don’t worry they actually managed to survive. What is the matter with you left leaning people.  Many pensioners will not survive this winter.Society is doing what it has always done eg work hard, get funds and try and pass what you can down to your next of kin.

Robert Wheeler ● 52d