Forum Topic

Winter Fuel Payments Flip-Flop?

I can sense a big fat flip-flop coming on this issue.  Starmer, Rayner and Reeves have all gone power-crazy in the 7 weeks since being elected. They seem to think Labour's large majority has given them carte-blanche to do exactly what they want, but they need to remember that they were only elected on 43% of the electorate vote, plus a desire for Governmental change.  It was also not in their manifesto. Another Labour lie by omission!Keep it up Starmer et al and you will be out in 2029, and not necessarily as the Opposition!

Sue Hammond ● 64d112 Comments

The article on China explains their massive coal power station building is to create energy security.  China has vast coal reserves so they will not be dependent on other countries.In contrast Ed Milliband wants to shut down North Sea oil and gas making us even more dependent on imports.  Strategically foolish in my opinion.  It will expose pensioners (and the rest of the country) to even greater price volatility and higher energy costs.

Robert Wheeler ● 45d

Agreed, Ed. The repressive Chinese political system means that inspite of the lack of personal freedoms having recognised that they have environmental and carbon emission problems they've come up with a long-term energy strategy to deal with them.Building more coal stations does not necessarily mean increasing greenhouse gas emissions as noted in this paper ...https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/china-coal-plantsChina does appear to be taking steps to reduce the emissions from its coal stations when they are running:https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/071524-china-to-test-run-biomass-ammonia-and-carbon-capture-in-coal-fired-plantsOf course we shouldn't forget that over time manufacturing has shifted from the west to countries like China and India to benefit the west's standard of living with cheaper consumer products - lower wages and fewer regulations, including those concerning emissions - so essentially we've shifted our emissions to those countries. 

Michael Ixer ● 45d

The Chinese have a mixed energy policy.China invested heavily in renewables but also closed old coal power stations and opened new cleaner but also more efficient ones that can be fired up when renewable generation drops.They have a pipeline of new nuclear power stations too and a scattergun approach to energy storage solutions.Practical, clean and efficient doesn't need to be opposing values.The problem we have is that China now has cheap energy and we need to compete but our energy costs are high and likely to remain so for decades.People really need to wake up to the fact US & China energy costs are now a lot lower than Western Europe's.Where would you locate your high energy industry?

Ed Robinson ● 46d

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.

Barbara Stevens ● 46d

It's ok if he grid demand is low; what was it when you (obviously) checked?

Michael Ixer ● 46d

Travelled to Newcastle on Saturday and passed tens and tens of those windmills with none turning.That bodes well.

Andy Pike ● 46d

Still it will all get better when Lit'l Ed gets those windmills turning.In fact is he not claiming we will each be £300 better off regarding our energy costs ?

John Hawkes ● 46d

Had a message this morning saying B.Gas is going up.

Barbara Stevens ● 47d

Starmer and Reeves are putting their egos in front of people’s lives.

Robert Wheeler ● 47d

What if they don't have any family.

Barbara Stevens ● 49d

I believe in Canada they brought or were bringing in a law to make family members take more responsibility for their family.  In other countries they do naturally take more care.  There is a difficulty in that the elderly can prove to be dogmatically independent and refuse to move nearer their children (who are working with dependent children and need to live near their work) or move into assisted living (if there is any).https://www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/ELD09_Allan_paper.pdf

Philippa Bond ● 49d

@PhilippaYou're full of heart. Not.

Sue Hammond ● 50d

So what!!!  There are an awful lot of people who are eligible for this Pension Top-up.  There seem to be others who are eligible but who just prefer to whinge.  Change happens.

Philippa Bond ● 50d

This was being discussed on LBC a few days ago and it has received extensive media coverage, so the uptake could be huge; I hope so. However answering 243 questions, many of them irrelevant or quite obtuse, might put off many pensioners; plus the elderly population are not habitual benefits claimants anyway.  Labour, who have repeatedly claimed that all its policies have been properly funded, seem to have overlooked something here. There are 1.6 million pensioners who could potentially be eligible for Pension Credit, which is an automatic gateway to the WFA. Let's think about this, if only 50% of pensioners did actually apply the assessment and processing of these applications will be very costly as more DWP staff will probably be needed, which would involve training and proper induction which is essential. Alternatively existing DWP staff could do lots and lots of overtime and be paid a small fortune to clear the inevitable backlog. So basically the cost of processing all the applications would most likely be greater than paying the WFA anyway. So what would be the point? I still think a major flip-flop is on the way.

Sue Hammond ● 50d

Hear you have another name on Ealing Forum Flipin. Their watching you repeating yourself on Putney Forum and putting the same on Ealing Forum.

Barbara Stevens ● 50d

Just an observation, in Sainsbury's, is this how old people are left to fend for themselves.  Elderly gentleman, food all down his front of his shirt and his trousers undone, with food down them as well. He has to go shopping and cope probably without anybody to help him. What is going on with this country. Also Tuesday lunchtime outside  the Hall in Werter Road, opposite Sainsbury's a man was blocking the door, laying flat out on the floor asleep. all we hear about all the time is people trying to get to this country. Yet the Government can't look after the people already here.

Barbara Stevens ● 50d

Well said Andy.  This will go down as Labour/Reeves biggest mistake and will haunt them in the future.

Robert Wheeler ● 50d

If they act now and are successful it will likely be next spring before approval due to the backlog of cases.Plus the 243 question questionaire.So maybe the decision should be deferred for this winter to allow the Govt to deal with the influx of applications.

Andy Pike ● 50d

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/martin-lewis-calls-880000-people-33598268

Philippa Bond ● 50d

"All they want is their money."  Now that is a bizarre idea.Nowadays there are often IT classes for silver surfers in libraries.  Wasn't there also a gentleman who gave IT help at a cafe in Putney?  Anyway why would it be their money any more than anyone else's?  Surely it has to be more important to target those who have the most need?  Those with a terminal illness getting Attendance Allowance who have huge energy bills for instance. If you have problems with paying your bills then you need first of all to contact your energy company.  The volatility of energy prices is the reason that energy companies try and get everyone to pay a set amount by direct debit each month.  They know that payment could get more difficult over winter with higher energy bills.

Philippa Bond ● 52d

Tell that to all the old people who can't copy and paste. All they want is their money.

Barbara Stevens ● 52d

Your last sentence is classic.  Who would have thought, no s…t Sherlock.Now lam getting angry……. Denying a problem will not make it not go away even Labour MPs recognise this.

Robert Wheeler ● 52d

Well if all you can do is moan about a situation and don't do anything proactive about it to help yourself then I would most definitely consider that stupid.If I didn't care about the people who are being left behind by the digital divide, the efforts needed to embrace changes and the cynical and labyrinthine machinations of Govts then I just wouldn't bother.  Quite honestly I can only think I must be some kind of masochist. FYI here is something I came across just now:https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/state-pensioners-can-still-get-300-winter-fuel-payment-without-pension-credit/ar-AA1pZaoq?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=7d44411e80ef4b71b6b9d4ec1c08f713&ei=45You need to highlight the above and copy and paste it into your browser.Of course you can't always believe everything you read in the press.

Philippa Bond ● 52d

Asked (Starmer) whether he was relaxed about people making money, he said: “Very. I’m not just relaxed, I’m relaxed as well as being doggedly determined.”Labour's deputy leader Angela Rayner has also admitted she is relaxed about people becoming "filthy rich... as long as they pay their taxes".https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63415681She was requoting and supporting Peter Mandelson.Good way of becoming such Ange is to buy and sell a discounted Council property !

John Hawkes ● 52d

"Labour is supposedly the champion of the poor and needy"Not now. That tear-jerking leftwing stuff has gone. You got the wrong bloke."Keir Starmer has said he will lead from the centre ground if elected prime minister and declared wealth creation to be his “number one mission”.In an interview with the Times, Starmer said the centre ground was “where most people are at”.“As a nation, broadly speaking we’re a pretty reasonable, tolerant bunch but we are in the centre ground of politics. People don’t like the extremes of the right or the left. They are reasonably tolerant. They want themselves, their families and the country to improve and make progress,” he said.Starmer said the ‘“only way our country can go forward” was if people and businesses make money. “I think it’s a good thing that people are aspirational. When I say our number one mission is economic growth, you could say our number one mission is wealth creation. Now that’s an odd thing for the Labour party to say. It might have been in the past.”Asked whether he was relaxed about people making money, he said: “Very. I’m not just relaxed, I’m relaxed as well as being doggedly determined.”His centrist pitch comes as the party conducts what some see as a purge of Labour’s left wing. Earlier this week, the sitting MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle and Faiza Shaheen, who had been selected by her local party to run as the Labour candidate for Chingford and Woodford Green, were deselected by the party’s national executive committee, where Starmer allies have majority control, and replaced by figures on the right of the party." (Guardian 1/6/24)https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/01/labour-keir-starmer-says-wealth-creation-is-his-number-one-mission"When I say our number one mission is economic growth, you could say our number one mission is wealth creation. Now that’s an odd thing for the Labour party to say. It might have been in the past.”Asked whether he was relaxed about people making money, he said: “Very. I’m not just relaxed, I’m relaxed as well as being doggedly determined.”"

David Ainsworth ● 53d

Surely the key issue is one of judgment. Labour is supposedly the champion of the poor and needy, but is is precisely those people who will be hit the hardest. There must have been plenty of other options (eg hitting the rich people and companies in our society). Instead Labour has allowed the vulnerable to be made to suffer. Inept politics.

Alexander MacLeod ● 53d

You don't discuss Philippa, you tell people what they should do, as if they are stupid.

Barbara Stevens ● 53d

The prices are all going up again this winter. A neigbour has already found out how much more she will be paying a month on top of what she was paying.

Barbara Stevens ● 53d

Avoidance Phillipa.Never mind this billionaire doesnt need it but feel very sorry for those that do and wont get it.

Andy Pike ● 53d

What IS the matter with you?  The whole point of a forum is to discuss.  This isn't the only place to discuss or hear about current affairs. Are you telling me that the millionnaires even billionnaires that get it NEED it to keep warm?  Prove it!

Philippa Bond ● 53d

Philippa, also said to buy wine, because I also said, more like buying Whisky to keep warm. Philippa types so much, she can't remember what she puts on here. Or did she think it was Ealing forum and so many Ealing residents arguing with her, she doesn't know who she's meant to answer. I know friends who still work a few days a week, they do it because they don't want to be on their own, doesn't mean they are rich. But not all people who are retired can because they might have a disability. Older people most spend more time indoors in the winter and need more heating.

Barbara Stevens ● 53d

On 2nd sept you said, Many took it and used it either to party or give to charity.Source please

Andy Pike ● 53d

Who said everyone partied on it?  I certainly didn't.  I said many people who didn't need it (you could even get it while you were still working full-time before retirement) gave it to charity.  Are you telling me that all the millionaires who got it just because they could - needed it?  Isn't it better that it goes to those who really need it?  If you are on Pension Credit you will still get it (and other benefits).  The problem is that the threshold right now is low.  People who are eligible for it should be encouraged and helped to claim it particularly as it also then gives access to other benefits.

Philippa Bond ● 53d

Still no mention of evidence of your claim that we all party on our heating allowance.

Andy Pike ● 53d

I see now that the 2 million is an estimate by Age UK.  I couldn't understand how they could be sure and I think that is the big problem.  What we do know is that we have woefully insulated homes and that the elderly are quite naturally petrified by the scams and cowboy builders that now proliferate, are very clever and can be totally devastating.  I've also experienced that the elderly also are often not very good at spending money on themselves with the view that they won't be here long enough to enjoy a newly well insulated home or new and easier to use bathroom preferring to spend money on their grandchildren and always being afraid that they will end up needing care and of the hideous amount of money that that costs - worse now there is no cap on care costs. If only we could be secure on that! Improved and adapted homes would allow those with a disability to stay at home for longer (which is what we always found was wanted).  There so often isn't the right accommodation to downsize into in the same area which would help.Perhaps it is all Govts that try to use divide and conquer as a method of winning their way.  The Tories certainly used it.  With less of a two party political competition perhaps it would surely be better. Children are finding it very hard to be able to afford to move away from home now because of not just the cost of accommodation but also the availability.The lack of preparation for the expected-sometime-pandemic that cost so many lives and so much money thrown at knee-jerk and ill thought-out and dodgy solutions will take a long time to forgive. Some of that claimed back would not go  amiss now.I still think that everyone should read more about the other  benefits that are available.  I have consistently suggested that people should contact them as their advice and signposting has always been very useful.  I also know that they meet with MPs to discuss various problems that the elderly are facing.  Even if your Putney MP right now isn't actually an Age UK Ambassador I remember reading that she has worked where she should have gained some sympathy for those less well off.https://www.ageuk.org.uk/latest-press/articles/2024/help-us-save-winter-fuel-payment-for-struggling-pensioners-says-age-uk/   

Philippa Bond ● 53d

Is there a £22bn ‘black hole’ in the UK’s public finances?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2e12j4gz0o

Ivonne Holliday ● 53d

Hello Jane,While I agree with you in certain respects, I do think that withdrawing the WFA from pensioners was a rather mean, unexpected and unwelcome move.  The same with withdrawing the cap on care for the elderly.  It does seem that the current government does not like pensioners at all or, perhaps, they are the easiest target of them all.  I would dearly love to see a redress of the £525b wasted  during COVID. I do agree with increasing doctors' pay as it has been frozen for more than 10 years.  All in the name of austerity - which applied to some but not all.I do not understand why the government has agreed a pay increase with train drivers as they are employed by private companies.  Yes, the government does pay a subsidy to the companies but staff salaries should be paid by the companies themselves.As far as the water companies are concerned, I have no respect for them and am appalled that some are saying they need to increase charges by 59%........  If they are in such incredible debt, let the management and shareholders be responsible for this. But, of course, they are owned by foreign pension funds, China has a stake in it as does Abu Dhabi.  As for the triple lock, as far as I remember, Cameron was rather shocked at the time when a pensioner said how would he live on £97 a week (or month?). Hence, the idea of the triple lock.I agree that we had an easier time than our children's generation.  Perhaps because it was a more equal and considerate society?  By this I mean we lived in a society before greed and avarice took over and before we sold our family silver....

Ivonne Holliday ● 53d

PhillipaStill waiting for the answer to the question I posed yesterday. Where do you get the evidence to suppor your claim that those in receipt of heating allowances usd it to party

Andy Pike ● 53d

My story government1. Never been an MP in my life.2. Did Labour and Lib Dems oppose any of the pandemic policies.3 I certainly paid heavy taxes post 1997 so suggest that I did indeed contribute.4. Whilst I'd like my grandchildren to.live tax free Im afraid its the way it's always been with the young paying taxes to assist those on pensions and benefits. Their turn will come.

Andy Pike ● 53d

@Phillipa. 10 million pensioners will lose the Winter Fueal Allowance.  AgeUk has identified that 2million of these pensioners will be pushed into financial difficulty.According to the Government these people who are trying to exist on a state pension of £11,502 p.a. have the broadest shoulders in society.  Shameful!

Robert Wheeler ● 53d

I’m not entirely happy about the train drivers but sometimes in politics one has to be pragmatic. The alternative would be further strikes which costs the economy far more thus inhibiting growth.Nobody is taking our pension away, indeed it’s triple locked. We didn’t pay ‘handsomely’ for the heating allowance. It was only introduced in 1997 by the Labour government and was at the time, opposed by the Tories.I agree that paying people not to work during the Pandemic was stupid and sending people to die in care homes was immoral but those were your Tory government policies. However I really don’t want my children’s or grandchildren’s generations to ´bear the burden’. Do you?

Jane Carter ● 53d

Also Jane you are pitting the young vs pensioners.  That is very dangerous for those going about in society.  All our lives were never fair if we only look back and moan.  My family couldn’t afford to pay for university so l self funded university costs, l had to find my first job and yes l ended up with costs.  However l was brought up to manage and not expect anything from anyone that l couldn’t provide for myself.  This is a Labour stance divide and not unite.  Where on earth is society cohesion no matter age, race or religion.  Current policy is a total mess.

Robert Wheeler ● 53d

Where exactly does that number come from?Is it just the number who signed a petition?

Philippa Bond ● 53d

However Jane this affects 2million (that they know of) OAPs at the most vulnerable times of their lives.  Now they are putting the boot in as Rayner is thinking of cancelling the Council Tax relief for single occupancy in homes.  All of this at a time when energy costs are going up 10%.I am staggered that this is being carried out by a Labour Government.  These are Reeves choices.  They could of reduced the pay offers already given.Of course as a society we should look after our young however many will be fit to work with no medical issues which is not the case in the 2 million OAPs.  Labour at the moment are North London centric they really need to get into the real world.Those with the biggest shoulders- yes pensioners.

Robert Wheeler ● 53d

Is it sensible when the nations finances are in such a dire state ( as per Rachel Reeves) that train drivers and ancillary rail staff receive inflation busting wage awards?Also those of us in receipt of pensions and heat allowance have paid handsomely over the 50 years of employment for them.We paid millions of people to stay at home during the pandemic maybe they should be the ones to carry the burden and not the survivors some of whom were sent to care homes to die.

Andy Pike ● 53d

When we started work there were proper jobs available for us to go to.  We didn't have to hang around waiting for the phone to ring in just case there was some work us each day and then just get paid by the hour.  Neither was there this constant reorganising of businesses with everybody on notice of redundancy and going through the renegotiating of salaries and terms of employment.

Philippa Bond ● 53d

For the 2 million pensioners, identified by Age UK as likely to be in real hardship as a result of the withdrawal of the allowance, the threshold should and, I suspect, will be raised.However is it really sensible, when the nation’s finances are in such a dire situation, to hand out large sums of money to people who can really manage without?We should also bear in mind that our baby boomer generation, compared to the previous and later generations have, on average, done rather well. I know there are many exceptions but we benefitted from free education, free university with grants and no fees, few problems with finding jobs and ability to buy houses which today’s young people can only dream of. And we still have the triple lock pension and the free TFL transport. Surely it’s time for some redress of the balance towards younger people and especially children? Many might argue that it’s ‘cruel’ to stop child benefit after the second child. I think it’s time to be a bit more generous minded.

Jane Carter ● 53d

This is not a political point it is reality.  It is 2 million OAPs who will suffer from Age UKs own data.I am fortunate many are not.  Get your facts right.

Robert Wheeler ● 54d

I'm sorry but if all you want to do is make a political point then you are going to continue to suffer.Each of the websites that I have visited have worded things slightly differently. You are very lucky if you have reached retirement age and don't have any medical conditions ie don't take any pills or inhalers and don't suffer from arthritis, diminishing sight and hearing, depression or any of the other problems that many do suffer from long before then.I've looked at the Govt website, Which, Age UK and Citizens Advice. They all word things differently for instance I wouldn't have called walking a bodily function.  I only knew it used as a euphemism.https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/large-print-factsheets/fs34-lp-attendance-allowance.pdf

Philippa Bond ● 54d

Groan….. l have now lost the will to live!  You simply are unwilling to recognise the cruelty of removing the Winter Fuel Allowance.

Robert Wheeler ● 54d

My FIL got this and he had someone come and go through all the questions with him.  We hadn't considered it. We should have and he should have had it far earlier than he actually did.  The name Attendance Allowance gave the impression that he had to have a carer either living with him or visiting him daily.  This isn't the case.  Of course I don't think that you just send in your name and you get it.  Why on earth would you make such a silly remark?  You have no chance of getting it if you don't even look at the websites regarding it and applying or talking to someone who does fill out the forms for people like the people from Age UK if you can't do it yourself.The problem with many of the elderly is that they soldier on with a stiff upper lip when they could be getting some assistance.  This money can help make the things that you are finding it harder to do easier and more pleasant. 

Philippa Bond ● 54d

No l am not confused thank you Philippa.  YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MEDICAL DISABILITY please seehttps://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance/eligibilityThis is an attempt to distract from the cruel policy of this Labour Government which Age UK has said will cause hardship for 2million people.

Robert Wheeler ● 54d

Have you ever tried applying for any of these benefits Phillipa? You seem to think you send in your name and its approved.Pension credit requires answers to 243 questions. My lads mother in law applied for PIP was refused twice but persevered and eventually got it after a year of trying. Sadly passed away a couple of months later. Please, to use Barbara's words , go back to the Ealing site  

Andy Pike ● 54d

You are confusing Pension Credit and Attendance Allowance.  If you have a disability then you should be looking at claiming a Disability Allowance.  You can use Attendance Allowance how you wish to help you to stay independent.  It could be that you have arthritis and this makes it difficult for you to get about for instance or to cook for yourself.  There is no threshold.

Philippa Bond ● 54d

It is NOT a distraction.  The conditions have been changed - there were more eye conditions added recently.  Many people don't really notice how much more unsteady or how much worse their eyesight has got because they have been coping with it for a long time.  It would make me want to weep seeing my FIL struggling to read letter by letter with his magnifying glass some of what I could see from the other side of the room was just another advertising flyer.

Philippa Bond ● 54d

It may not be means tested but you need a disability or a medical condition to claim for it.  If you just happen to be old and just over the threshold OAPs won’t get it.  This is just a distraction.

Robert Wheeler ● 55d

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/martin-lewis-attendance-allowance-dwp-benefit-pension-b2585591.htmlThis is a non-means tested benefit and has nothing to do with having carers visiting you.£5 billion of benefits go unclaimed.

Philippa Bond ● 55d

Mr Hawkes. I'd generally agree with your advice, although I'd advise not studying a subject one dislikes even if it has attractive prospects - you'll probably fail or abandon it through unhappiness at a later date. Interestingly, at one time I worked for a software house that employed maths graduates like me for techie positions but employed arts graduates for doing user requirements' analysis and documentation because they were better at communicating with non technical users and could document those requirements in understandable language. So companies needed to broaden their recruitment policies; I know at present a number of cyber security companies are recruiting those with good communication and psychology skills rather than just those with IT degrees because educating users to understand when they're being manipulated is key to blocking some hacking attempts: many ransomware attacks and data thefts have started with an email phishing exercise ...

Michael Ixer ● 56d

https://smithstonewalters.com/2023/10/11/mac-recommends-abolishing-the-shortage-occupation-list/?gad_source=5&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjLmSno6giAMVep2DBx32TQb_EAAYAiAAEgI5s_D_BwEI can't find the list I last saw.  There seem to be companies that can sponsor workers immigrating to the UK at different tiers. Some time ago you could see that the NHS was going overseas to recruit.  There also used to be a list of countries that we were not supposed to recruit from as that would be detrimental to those countries' health services.

Philippa Bond ● 56d

'On the Guardian online yesterday was an article on how new graduates are struggling to find work'This proves there are more people with a certain type of degree than there are jobs for which their degree is a necessary qualification.Not the case for those with degrees in say law, medicine and certain science or engineering based subjects I would suspect.I read this article and the complainant seemed to be looking for someone to blame and someone to fix her problem.Ah yes, the Government.My advice to a school leaver would be either go to University and read a subject you have a true interest in - and to hell with worrying what job opportunity it might offer you later.Or look around the economy and see what aspects of it are in need of staff with a particular degree level qualification and study that subject at university.

John Hawkes ● 56d

Please feel free to rub away Patrick, it's always good to get a personal perspective on life in various countries.With regards to importing labour, as mentioned above in the thread at the graduate end we have a high number looking for jobs all with student loans. The European economies have high graduate unemployment it will effectively sucking cheaper graduates from Spain for example and put our own on the unemployment queue.The Telegraph is already pushing to bring in skilled building labour from abroad. The jobs that will be ideal for a lot of mainly working class boys (some girls too of course) that have not faired well in the academic education system. Not to mention others that have already migrated here and settled.Let's hope the Labour government will reject the short term very expensive long term solution of just importing people condemning many to the scrap heap.It seems old fashioned right wing capitalist views on labour are being dressed up as liberal views.https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/25/spain-has-among-the-eus-highest-number-of-young-people-out-of-work-and-education-but-why

Ed Robinson ● 57d

Patrick, they may suit your property, my cousins son moved to Tasmania, when he got married about 20yrs ago. Also another Cousin who moved years ago, when you had the cheap trip there to start a new life with her family in NSW.  But it's not so easy if you live in flats for some people here, also not loads of charging points in roads for electric cars.  Will people have problems selling them if they want a new car, especially the price of the batteries. Solar Panels obviously wouldn't be much good if you have snow.

Barbara Stevens ● 57d

I do not wish to rub it in, as a Putney boy now living on the Sunshine coast Queensland Australia. My wife and I have retired to a house with sola panels. We have NO electricity bills, are considering purchasing an electric car which will also be run by the panels. We are all on Earth there's NO cure for THAT (work it out.

Patrick D Barrs ● 57d

There’s loads of speculation about what will be in the autumn Budget.  It will be interesting how young people react to a weakening jobs market and possible increases to Inheritance Tax, CGT and maybe increased taxation of pensions.  Some young people will be hoping for financial help from parents and grandparents, but may find less money coming their way alongside a shortage of well paying jobs after they graduate.  

Martine Guy ● 57d

I believe the number of job vacancies is falling.

Martine Guy ● 57d

Mr Robinson,"what qualified workers are in short supply here that the UK couldn't have trained"?'About a quarter of people of working-age - nearly 11 million people - do not currently have jobs'. BBC.Some are students, some are carers and some are not seeking work because they presumably are living on pensions or savings.There must however be some who could be trained to fill job vacancies and some vacancies are for jobs that need little or no training at all.

John Hawkes ● 57d

On the Guardian online yesterday was an article on how new graduates are struggling to find work.  

Martine Guy ● 57d

Disgraceful ‼️You can bet that they will all be allowed to stay here indefinitely, protected by Starmer's amnesty, 

Sue Hammond ● 57d

Philippa, what qualified workers are in short supply here that the UK couldn't have trained?

Ed Robinson ● 57d

Asylum seekers have not been allowed to work here even when they were better or equally as qualified as British people and we needed workers with those qualifications as they were in short supply here:https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01908/

Philippa Bond ● 58d

Ms Hammond"Re immigration, Starmer has already granted an amnesty to God knows how many hundred of thousands already here"!https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13794959/Record-numbers-migrants-living-Britain-jobless.html'Record numbers of migrants living in Britain are not working, costing taxpayers an estimated £8 billion, a report warns today.Official figures show that 1,689,000 non-UK nationals are either unemployed or classed as economically inactive because they are not looking for a job.The figure for the second quarter of 2024 surpasses the previous high of 1,676,000 recorded at the start of the year, and the 1,628,000 from early in 2012, according to analysis of Office for National Statistics data'."If I hear Reeves say 'this is not a decision I WANTED to take, it's a decision I HAD to take, I will scream"!And were you to smoke, you could not even take a glass of something into a pub garden and have a quick Benson & Hedges to reduce the tension !

John Hawkes ● 58d

Starmer now has a new positions on Europe.I do not think we can say he flip flops as that implies just two positions. There again the only constant about Starmer is his positions are always best for him.Corbyn it was his beloved party sorry ex-party.Johnson/Cameron/May him/herself.

Ed Robinson ● 58d

Warm dry climates are best for old bones and lungs too.A reminder that UK relationships with countries in the EU was not and is not equal, with Spain being popular for UK citizens to retire to and UK having around 1m Polish mainly working age pre 2021.A colleague did the Skiing in the morning windsurfing in the afternoon in Spain. The point being that the larger countries can have multiple climates but I guess they go on average temperature where most people settle.Italy 1,693 4.7% third ranking after Germany.

Ed Robinson ● 58d

@ Robert WheelerTotally agree. If I hear Reeves say 'this is not a decision I WANTED to take, it's a decision I HAD to take, I will scream! Re immigration, Starmer has already granted an amnesty to God knows how many hundred of thousands already here!This will be his one and only tenure as PM!

Sue Hammond ● 58d

That's an interesting point, Ed. I'd make a guess that most expats that would be old enough to qualify live in warm countries - Portugal, Spain, Gibraltar, Malta & Cyprus - where the benefit is excluded - and those living in countries that qualify - Germany, Benelux, Scandinavian, etc - are there working and too young to qualify. Be helpful to see statistics for Italy? It's warm and the benefit is payable there?

Michael Ixer ● 58d

Will the last person thoroughly fed up already with no plan Starmer please close the front door!All l hear is growth (so we will raise taxes so you have less to spend), working people (the vast majority work and pay taxes Sir Kier), we are going to break the people smugglers (no workable rapid plan even though 7,000 arrived in the last 8 weeks).    Starmer needs to move from North London and really understand the problems in Britain.Labour have been in opposition for 14 years was that not enough time to plan a decent Government.

Robert Wheeler ● 58d

Yes, the winter fuel payments excluded Cyprus, France, Gibraltar, Greece, Malta, Portugal and Spain some time ago.Last year's figures 99.7% of recipients live in Great Britain. 77.3% (27,760) of the others live in Ireland. Other countries the numbers are quite small Germany being next 6.2% (2,222).Very small numbers as you can see. I think the interesting question is not about the Frost agreement but why the numbers are so small?https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/winter-fuel-payment-statistics-for-winter-2022-to-2023/winter-fuel-payment-statistics-for-winter-2022-to-2023

Ed Robinson ● 58d

It's interesting that EU rules, enshrined in the Frost & Johnson Brexit agreement, mean that UK pensioners living in some (but not all) EU and EFTA countries means some UK pensioners living in the EU will retain their Winter Fuel Allowance payments ...https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/insider/british-pensioners-living-in-the-eu-to-keep-getting-winter-allowance/(The original Telegraph article is behind a paywall.)

Michael Ixer ● 59d

And it's not as if it saves a huge amount of money, either

Lucille Grant ● 59d

Mr BeeneyOne can always tell when politically left-leaning people (which I take the liberty of assuming you are one ?) are losing the argument when they resort to emotive claims, for which there is no evidence, such as - 'That was in start contrast to the preceding Conservative Government of Margaret Thatcher and John Major, which seemingly didn't care'. As for pensions, I believe the triple lock was introduced by the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government in 2010. It was designed to ensure the value of the state pension was not overtaken by the increase in the cost of living or the working population's income.Regarding universal credit, does Chancellor Reeves to your knowledge have any plans to increase its value ?It could of course be funded by raising income tax so why did she dismiss this as an option ?

John Hawkes ● 59d

Mr Beeney'A Government is elected to govern and make decisions - sometimes a Government has to react to circumstances and make difficult decisions that aren't popular, and perhaps weren't in its manifesto - that's the reality of Government'.True enough.And of course Chancellor Reeves has admitted that, unlike many economic commentators, she was unaware before the election as to the state of the economy and hence has had to bring in the unforetold measures she has and the tax rises that are likely to follow the Budget.These and other painful measures the Labour Government is warning us of were therefore not in its manifesto.They have a right to introduce them just as we have a right to be sceptical and believe they flattered to deceive !As for the WFA, no one will need it after 2030 as by then little Ed will have all the windmills turning and we will get the benefit of his promise that energy bills would come down by £300 or more by the end of this parliament.This had better be true though in reality I understand that gas and oil drilling will not be stopped.And yes, Labour did introduce it so of course they can now take it away.

John Hawkes ● 59d

Of course the Labour Government of the time didn't want people to freeze in winter.  Which, as you say, is precisely why the Labour Government introduced winter fuel payments in 1998 - along with free TV licensed for the over 75s, which the Conservative Government withdrew funding for in recent years.  That was in start contrast to the preceding Conservative Government of Margaret Thatcher and John Major, which seemingly didn't care.  Until Labour introduced the winter fuel allowance, it had to be minus 1 celsius for seven consecutive days before any senior citizens received any cold weather payments, and under the Thatcher / Major Governments, state pensions were allowed to fall behind, with the link between the state pension and average earnings being dropped.  In contrast, under the changes proposed by this Government, those in the most need can still claim for winter fuel allowance, and the changes come at a time when pensions have largely been inflation proofed in recent years, in contrast to the earnings of large numbers of people in work and people of working age on universal credit.

David Beeney ● 59d

Honestly you must be deluded.  Starmer and Reeves have made choices eg pay public sector workers £15billion and not paid OAPs.  Life is about choices and they haven’t finished yet.  None of this was in any proposed manifesto and in fact in June when asked outright about tax increases Starmer lied as everything was costed in and no further tax rises.The shameful thing about this is Labour brought this in originally as they didn’t want the elderly to freeze in winter.

Robert Wheeler ● 59d

The Starmer Government may have only been elected with 34% of the electoral vote, but that was still 10% more of the national vote than it's nearest rival received.  Indeed, when was the last time a Government was elected with a majority of the vote? A Government is elected to govern and make decisions - sometimes a Government has to react to circumstances and make difficult decisions that aren't popular, and perhaps weren't in its manifesto - that's the reality of Government.  Worth also perhaps remembering that the winter fuel allowance - which will still be available to those who need it most - wasn't available to anyone until it was introduced by a Labour Government in 1998.

David Beeney ● 59d

I've still always got candles and nowadays nightlights and also rechargeable LED torches/lights and a solar light that stays in the same place so that it is easy to get to when and if the electricity goes out....  I remember trying to work when there were electricity cuts in the UK and I consider we've been lucky in this country to have few power cuts.  Other countries aren't so lucky.It's usually Shanks' pony for the shops when there's nothing longlife left in the store cupboard - but be truthful how often does that really and literally mean 'absolutely nothing' and not just nothing that you fancy or nothing you'd routinely want or have?

Philippa Bond ● 61d

Andy. The forum's Pollyanna doesn't live in the real world ...

Sue Hammond ● 62d

Hope you have stocked up on candles and your horse is fit to get you to the shops

Andy Pike ● 62d

It's not going backwards.  It's moving forwards.  When you see Michael's posts and the others you can see the way that this has been happening and the way that Members of Parliament and Think Tanks have deliberately procrastinated in order to make sure that they and their friends are seen alright to the detriment of everyone else.

Philippa Bond ● 62d

But again why go all in on solar and wind BEFORE this work is done,?Your perfect world does not yet exist so why go backwards before it does?

Andy Pike ● 63d

Andy that is why insulating properties properly and safely is important - and learning how to live in them so that we don't need so much energy.  Not as I've seen with wide open windows "because it's too hot and I can't turn the heating down" or "it's so hot I had to put the fan on" from someone wearing skin tight jeans and clingy blouse and jacket in a hot country.  Clothes washing and drying causes many problems here with drying indoors and condensation without a dehumidifier or open windows.https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/09/europes-energy-crisis-in-data-which-countries-have-the-best-and-worst-insulated-homes#:~:text=Which%20country%20has%20the%20best,houses%20in%20Norway%20and%20Germany.

Philippa Bond ● 63d

We need a lot of things Phillipa but not all at once. You wouldnt scrap all diesel buses before having their replacements ready to roll. So why would you do it with energy?

Andy Pike ● 63d

Yes, we need to increase the production of low carbon electricity and get away from fossil fuels.  We need cleaner and better integrated public transport.  https://ourworldindata.org/low-carbon-electricity-by-country#:~:text=Some%20countries%20get%20all%20–%20or,France%20gets%20more%20than%2090%25.

Philippa Bond ● 63d

It is difficult to say - when does policy that leads to certain outcomes become policies for those outcomes?An example is the Covid response and care homes that killed so many even in Sweden.The outcome, tragic and unimaginable is also  desirable from an cold state economic point of view. Was it deliberate or at least did they turn a blind eye?The UK bumbles along yet again without a proper social care policy. This benefit change may look like thinning the heard mentality to many.

Ed Robinson ● 63d

NO NO NO you can put your flannel in a dish of SOAPY WATER  and microwave it.

Philippa Bond ● 63d

So much more should have been done earlier to make sure that buildings were well insulated so that less energy is needed but it isn't so easy with all of our brick and wood buildings.  These are easier to insulate on the outside but that isn't aesthetically pleasing to many.  The problem is that condensation has to be avoided as that rots wood and the consequent mould causes respiratory illness. See Awaab's Law.  Opening windows, closing doors, using extractor fans, trickle vents and dehumidifiers at the right times and in the right places reduces this.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/15/death-of-two-year-old-awaab-ishak-chronic-mould-in-flat-a-defining-moment-says-coroner Aerial photos will show lots of buildings still with single glazing and no or little roof insulation.I do wonder if Michael Gove's proposed legislation re the rented sector would have helped with this but unfortunately there were far too many landlord MPs in Parliament.  They were certainly far more likely to be able to afford the costs of this than those renters. The Bill was allowed to run out of time.We should still be pursuing the climate goals and the oil and gas companies are still getting preferencial Govt treatment over subsidies.

Philippa Bond ● 63d

Well you have a very short memory Philippa, I do remember, when we had Covid and a short supply of toilet paper you told people you could wipe your arse on a flannel, and dry in a microwave, it will stay in our minds forever.

Barbara Stevens ● 63d

Barbara  It has been on the Thames Water vans for absolutely years - ONLY pee, poo and TOILET paper should be put down the loo.I have NOT and NEVER would advocate DRYING anything in a microwave - however you can heat things like cotton flannels in it.  In fact since the microwave has a timer it can be easier and safer to boil something little like that that has missed the machine wash there than on the stove.You would be wise to get your facts straight.

Philippa Bond ● 63d

I noted in another post that an article in the latest New Scientist indicates we've almost certainly missed "1.5 Celsius" targets and that the term "net zero" rather than being used as a term describing atmospheric physics is being used as a derogatory term for "an environmental policy I don't like" (as helpful as usig the term "woke" as an insult for a social policy one dislikes rather than trying to understand the rwal complexities of the issue). https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg26335052-800-the-1-5c-target-is-dead-but-climate-action-neednt-be/(And, behind paywall, https://www.newscientist.com/article/2444314-best-case-scenario-for-climate-change-is-now-1-6c-of-warming/ )(Keep in mind New Scientist is now part of the Daily Mail and General Trust so no "lefty" political bias.)I would think Mr Milliband is being - quite sensibly -driven by the science rather than the economics because of the need to inject some urgency in the rush to net zero. I guess that's the price of playing catch-up for the decade or so of complacency about climate change. Perhaps there's also some irony that many of the over 70s generation losing the WFA voted for Thatcher in '70s (actully 1979) who then proceeded to overturn Labour's plan for the British National Oil Corporation (BNOC) which my understanding was (from working with BNOC back then to supply some software) to retain the oil and gas wealth in public ownership (I don't think the term "sovereign fund" was used then); the closest reference I can find is this - no WWW in the 1970s, IT was still transitioning from punched cards!https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/north-sea-oil-money-uk-norwegians-fundSo, unlike, for example, Norway, there's no money now to invest in renewables, home insulation and new heating methods. So I guess the UK's paying the price of past decisions to now catch up. I suspect there may be furher consideration regarding the WFA and who should pay the price of these failures ... perhaps the oil companies shoulder a responsibility? Yes, this year's Labour Party Conference will be interesting ...

Michael Ixer ● 63d

Well you can always use it as toilet paper the bit of paper. You won't have to put your flannel in the microwave to dry. Such good advice from Philippa, nearly made us all sick. Well use the specific phone number for advice, oh forgot you don't need it you know everything and how to tell your grandmother to suck eggs.

Barbara Stevens ● 63d

So do I.  There's always more to learn!  Yesterday I learnt that Citizens' Advice had a specific telephone numbers for energy advice - only l'd have to find ithe bit of paper to share it though!  And I haven't tried it out...

Philippa Bond ● 64d

"The one and only know it all"I contest that statement!

David Ainsworth ● 64d

Mr Pike'Its clumsy politics'.Or is it hubris; not unexpected with such a massive Parliamentary majority.But according to the ancient Greeks Hubris → Atis(Ate) → Nemesis → TisisHubris usually caused the intervention of the gods and especially Zeus, who sent Atis to the abuser, which was the blurring and blindness of the mind.This in turn led the abuser to new offenses until he committed a very grave error which brought about the "Nemesis", the wrath and vengeance of the gods, which brought the "Tisis", that is, his punishment and destruction.So could be exciting at the next Labour Conference and the next General Election !As for little Ed, does anyone really think plans to almost entirely remove fossil fuels from UK electricity production by 2030, five years earlier than the previous Conservative  government's plans are achievable ?Windmills on Putney Heath ?Tens of thousands of job losses in Scotland as a result of stopping North Sea gas and oil extraction ?Already energy bills are rising."Pensioner found frozen to death as had to choose between heating and eating" - (not) the Mailonline !

John Hawkes ● 64d

The one and only know it all, what do you do with yours Philippa, claim so much as you seem to know what to do, there is non left for those who need it.

Barbara Stevens ● 64d

Or the other way round that those who think they will have trouble will do something about it by thinking about and preparing for cold weather and re-checking if they are entitled to any other payments and organising themselves for winter instead of giving the payments to people who have been entitled to them but most definitely didn't need them.

Philippa Bond ● 64d

They probably hope if they kill off as many old people who they can, then they won't have to pay out Pensions then either.

Barbara Stevens ● 64d

Labour have been talking up their mandate. It is odd that it was not in the manifesto.With fuel prices expected to increase again in February it was a poor political as well as an poor economical decision.So many options they wanted to stick it to pensioners it seems.One wonders what were they thinking?

Ed Robinson ● 64d

"Labour's large majority has given them carte-blanche to do exactly what they want ...they were only elected on 43% of the electorate vote."I may have missed it, but I don't remember your complaining anout the Conservatives after the 2015, 2017 and 2019 elections, when they received respectively 36.3, 42.3 and 43.6% of the vote but where able to do exactly what they wanted.I agree with the implication that electoral reform is needed to achieve a fair distribution of seats, but consistency seems rather lacking here.

Richard Carter ● 64d

If we don’t know how many affected agree with the policy it makes no sense to raise that point, however according to Age UK nearly 2million pensioners will have serious problems this winter. Surely it’s common sense..  Energy bills have been increased and the current Government are cancelling Winter Fuel Payment people will go either cold or hungry and worse case scenario both.Which bit of for the people does Starmer not understand.

Robert Wheeler ● 64d

Its clumsy politics. Surely they knee what the response would be and yet , fif relatively small beans, they went ahead.They also new the price of fuel woukd increase in October to prolong the agony.Finally they then give Mad Milliband £8 billion for a fantasy project that wont show results for years, if ever.But it could have an unexpected result very quickly if we discard oil too quickly.

Andy Pike ● 64d

We do not know how many people affected by the policy agree with it nonetheless. I am in that category. Often it is the minority that makes the most noise.

Lisa Cottam ● 64d

Not so sure David back benchers are revolting on this issue according to the Guardian.What is our MP doing about this issue.

Robert Wheeler ● 64d

"Keep it up Starmer et al and you will be out in 2029"Long range, Cassandra!

David Ainsworth ● 64d