Forum Topic

2 More JSO Morons Convicted Today👍

Two Just Stop Oil activists have been found guilty of criminal damage after throwing tinned soup at one of Vincent van Gogh’s most famous paintings.Anna Holland and Phoebe Plummer, both 22, damaged the frame of the post-impressionist’s Sunflowers in London’s National Gallery.Judge Christopher Hehir – who last week jailed the co-founder of Just Stop Oil and Extinction Rebellion for five years at the same court – told the duo they will be released on bail until they are sentenced on September 27 at the same court.

Sue Hammond ● 155d69 Comments

More like the usual bang on about the people protesting against climate change rather than have a serious conversation about the article posted type guff.I care and worry about my kids future. Most of you lot seem stressed that someone threw soup over a protective case.

Michael Brigo ● 85d

I'll remember that if I'm in a rush, good one.

Barbara Stevens ● 85d

Excellent post.

Robert Wheeler ● 85d

Considering the carbon footprint of the typical JSO/IB/XR activist we may be able to save the planet by locking them all up!Not a serious suggestion of course.But when someone shares a list consisting of people with an extremely high carbon footprint and tries to pass them off as eco heros it becomes very hard to take this nonsense seriously.There are very good economical and environmental even security reasons for adopting best practice when it comes to generating and conserving energy. Celebrity worship detracts from this and the eco activists are like a fart in a lift claiming it makes it go up quicker!

Ed Robinson ● 85d

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/when-their-whole-world-could-vanish-young-people-in-island-nations-must-weigh-moving-on

Philippa Bond ● 85d

Now if there was some really sensible rehabilitation actually carried out in prisons instead of them just being considered as holding tanks or schools for crime then we could have some very employable and trained people ready and available to join the workforce insulating our leaky buildings when they came out of prison.

Philippa Bond ● 86d

LOL

Sue Hammond ● 89d

A new splinter group has been formed by the JSO & IB sects - its called JIP, Just Insulate Prison!

Ed Robinson ● 89d

https://theconversation.com/monday-was-the-warmest-day-recorded-on-earth-but-how-do-scientists-actually-measure-that-235423

Philippa Bond ● 90d

It is shame that a lot of important parts of the school curriculum have been removed - because they have been deemed as unnecessary.  Sports, Arts and Music have been severely reduced - and then they wonder why youngsters find it harder to express themselves.  Now you have to pay for everything 'extra' so much more difficult for those with less money to let off steam and relax by taking up these additional and alternative but legal recreational activities.

Philippa Bond ● 90d

Michael, I didn't think we had that warm weather this year, it was hotter last year.

Barbara Stevens ● 90d

A warming atmosphere holds more water, leading to heavier downfalls.Seen much of that recently?

Michael Brigo ● 90d

Yes Ed agree, I know it was years ago, but we did painting at school, also at Brook Green College Hammersmith, day release from J.Lyons, Cadby Hall, Hammersmith, also typing etc.  But while I was in hospital having my son and kept in a month with high blood pressure I did 2 oil paintings by numbers. This also kept my blood pressure down.

Barbara Stevens ● 90d

No shortage of evidence showing  that the climate crisis is a lie it about money and control WEF 2030 agenda Can’t believe still so many individuals are still asleep.

Paul Beer ● 90d

We need to get more working class people interested in art.The unrealised benefits economically but also socially for the country is huge.My youngest daughter loves that painting which she was privilege to see.The thought that it could be used for a political stunt is mind blowing.What if it was deemed unsafe for display to the public in the UK?An attack on public museums is an attack on the public.Surely these middle and upper class activists should target their own parents or grandparents before the general public?No? Why not? They have a higher carbon footprint after all!

Ed Robinson ● 90d

Another two idiots threw soup at the same painting so hopefully Starmer delivers the same rapid justice for public disorder however with Lammy so chummy with JSO Rachel Kyte l am doubtful.  Can’t these posturing funds gone on the WFA?

Robert Wheeler ● 90d

Michael, I’m not sure how crowded women’s prisons are?  However, if they released the women sent to jail for not paying the T.V. Licence, that would free up space for the JSO women.  I’m sure that would be a popular move with many of the British public.

Martine Guy ● 90d

While their in prison perhaps they have art classes, perhaps they can teach them to respect fantastic old paintings.

Barbara Stevens ● 90d

Robert, thank you and I agree about North London.  I am surprised at the sentencing, but about time.  Well done that judge.

Martine Guy ● 91d

Well said Martine.They have been jailed for 3 years.  Hopefully this makes other protesters think twice before they vandalise or use intimidating language.  We are one society not a North London elite where people with varying and different views are frowned on whatever the cause.  Laws are laws Keir Starmer l am sure would say.

Robert Wheeler ● 91d

They'll have plenty of time to read it with 20 and 24 month prison sentences.

Andy Pike ● 91d

This is a good readhttps://www.vam.ac.uk/blog/museum-life/art-attack-the-vandalism-of-artworks-by-the-suffragettes-and-how-the-va-prepared-for-an-anticipated-attack

Michael Brigo ● 91d

If this was a vandal from a working class background, then they probably would get up to 3 months in prison.  No leniency for upper middle class girls, they knew what they were doing.  Just because creatives don’t like it, shouldn’t make any difference.

Martine Guy ● 91d

Perhaps if there's a shortage of prison places because of the failure of the last government to build more prisons there would be a case for tagging offenders like this who aren't really a threat to society; just a nuisance for those who disagree with their actions? One may disagree with their actions but it was done with what they considered to be best intentions; to highlight the dangers of climate change. When was the last time the M5 was closed by serious flooding?

Michael Ixer ● 91d

The two protesters are being sentenced today at Southwark.  According to The Times, a group of art professionals have said Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland should be spared jail because: ”Their actions belong to the well established tradition of creative iconoclasm” “Their iconoclasm was temporary, a sight to behold to make their protest” So that makes it alright does it? I hope the judge does not spare the 2 women from a jail sentence.  There should be no special treatment for them.

Martine Guy ● 91d

Now that is actually funny!My faith in you is finally justified.

David Ainsworth ● 152d

Mr Ainsworth'I really should replace my old bike saddle'.You should.It will make it easier for you to talk whilst cycling.

John Hawkes ● 152d

"I really should replace my old bike saddle."My saddle got stolen a few weeks back. Nothing special it came with the bike. New saddle, stem & bracket - a right pain and cost to replace, not to mention either removing the saddle or looping the cable through the saddle when locking up.Not worth the hassle/risk of cycling short distances anymore unless you have somewhere secure to park.Just another example of crime reducing the use of not just green transport but transport that is beneficial to health.

Ed Robinson ● 152d

"I appreciate this comment even though it seems slightly patronising."Slightly? Slightly!?"You are of course recognised as two of the most sensitive and sympathetic posters to this Forum."Sensitive - how perceptive of you. I really should replace my old bike saddle.

David Ainsworth ● 152d

@Sue,Unfortunately the previous Labour government gave up on them and decided it was quicker & easier just to import more people. It papered over the cracks while the economy was good but has left us saddled with very high taxation.COVID as you say made things worse.Ultimately the main parties do not want to admit past mistakes and there are still those that think importing large numbers of people without tackling the existing high levels of economic inactivity is the answer.From the article:"When I became First minister of Wales in 2000, I saw the startling statistics on long-term Sickness and Disability dependence: 14 per cent of working age Welsh adults were on it. That figure rose to an astonishing 25 per cent in Blaenau Gwent and Merthyr. We got the Welsh figure down to 12 per cent by 2005, by which time our Welfare to Work programmes were undermined by Eastern European immigration."

Ed Robinson ● 152d

"The perpetrators have extensive knowledge of the network, according to Axel Persson, a leader of the CGT rail union. They must have had access to very “precise information,” he added.Authorities should not rule out industrial espionage, Persson told CNN on Friday, saying that a railway staffer, or someone who built the tracks including construction workers, could also be to blame."If in doubt blame the staff - great union man!I wonder if he was the so-called "source"? If so perhaps not the best of French sources!

Ed Robinson ● 152d

@EdNow greatly exacerbated by the disastrous furlough scheme which was an invitation for company corruption and a cheats' charter.

Sue Hammond ● 152d

Let's hope they did gain the knowledge from searching the Internet. There's a good chance they'll have left a nice audit trail - unless they're really clever.

Michael Ixer ● 152d

Unfortunately long term sick benefit was something Margaret Thatcher used to keep ex-miners off the dole figures.It has done great damage to the UK's work ethic.https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/50937/cutting-thatchers-benefits-system

Ed Robinson ● 152d

"suggesting knowledge of the systems"They would say that wouldn't they?Railways are one of the most documented things on the planet. People literally spend a lifetime going into the most minute detail. You can probably watch every route on tube. Not that I'm recommending it or having a go at those that love trains.Anyone with internet access, transport and the ability to make fire could have carried it out.This is why sentencing against such activities always should include a deterrent factor.

Ed Robinson ● 152d

@Mr Hawkes 11.01I listen to LBC.  A lot.  It's a phone-in and talk radio station with a wide range of presenters, but in my opinion most of them are left-leaning and affected by anti Tory sheep-think.  A recent topic, and one that is often discussed was concerning people receiving long term sickness benefits and listening to the calls is always a revelation. Any caller who claims they are suffering from *'mental health'🙄caused by the Tory government is allowed to ramble on wallowing in self pity, but anyone who dares to call the presenter to challenge this nonsense is given short shrift and shuffled off air pdq. Unfortunately *mental health now seems to be the go-to reason for not being able to get up in the morning and go to work; it used to be the 'bad back' excuse but that's old hat now.  Whilst I accept that many claimants are absolutely genuine and I sympathise with them, I feel that many are not.  Parroting the phrase 'I have mental health' without being able to explain what the problem is, is not proof of mental illness. *playing the mental health card

Sue Hammond ● 152d

Mr Kettlekey'There's little point engaging with someone with such blinkered and backward views. Someone else might but I'm not'.Is this not a somewhat subjective point of view ?Mr Ainsworth'But, overall, Mr Hawkes represents a significant proportion of people's opinion in the UK. With whom else should we debate'?I appreciate this comment even though it seems slightly patronising.You are of course recognised as two of the most sensitive and sympathetic posters to this Forum.

John Hawkes ● 153d

"There's little point engaging with someone with such blinkered and backward views. Someone else might but I'm not."But, overall, Mr Hawkes represents a significant proportion of people's opinion in the UK. With whom else should we debate?

David Ainsworth ● 153d

Your compassion and understanding shines through.There's little point engaging with someone with such blinkered and backward views. Someone else might but I'm not.

John Kettlekey ● 153d

The attack on the TGV system seems untypical, it was straightforward, well planned and targeted (suggesting knowledge of the systems), effective but with little risk of injury to those travelling.  Unlikely to be Russia as they have shown little interest in minimising collateral damage previously, as is true of terrorist groups. It was also interesting that it was (at least initially) categorised as vandalism rather than terrorism by the French - has their intelligence ruled out known groups? 

Michael Ixer ● 153d

But the only people who have a history of such activity are the French Resistance and S.O.E. And the DM ignores them!!

David Ainsworth ● 153d

Mr Kettlekey'There's also a mental health crisis going on in the country'.Is there ?What evidence supports this claim ?Just because people say they 'have a mental health issue' means nothing.And such claims usually come from those who worry themselves sick and state they are unable to work because they believe spurious declarations that the world is about to end due to 'climate change'.If only they would read or be told about the times and events my parents and grandparents experienced.Their cure for 'mental health issues' ?Wake up, get up, go to work and get on with it.

John Hawkes ● 153d

Well said, John, and good questions. Good luck in getting a straight response!

Jane Carter ● 153d

"Sources have no idea who was behind the Paris Olympic train chaos"Fixed it for you David!

Ed Robinson ● 153d

Also the classic Daily Mail phrasing that tries to create an equivalence between the methods of protest groups and Putin.They're really not very subtle.

John Kettlekey ● 153d

Not sure what your selective quoting is supposed to highlight.I would like JSO to continue these kinds of actions as I'd like my children/grandchildren/etc to have a chance to grow up in a world that hasn't been wrecked by excessive fossil fuel burning. However my support doesn't go as far as giving them money. Is that tricky to understand? It's not an odd concept. JSO isn't a charity but I'm sure there are thousands of charities which you support, but I guess you don't support every single one financially. Nor do I.The "Keep up the good work!" line was for the anti-JSO mob who keep boosting their publicity by continuing to reply to threads about their actions. But I suppose it also extends to JSO and their activists themselves now you mention it.What is the reason behind bringing up the tragic case of the activist that committed suicide? Do you think JSO/Insulate Britain/Stop HS2 are directly culpable? There's also a mental health crisis going on in the country and that report reads like he wasn't given much meaningful support.

John Kettlekey ● 153d

It sounds like it may well be a bit of a wake-up call for parents like that!

Philippa Bond ● 153d

"Eco-mob and the far-left 'main suspects' behind Paris Olympics train chaos: 'Coordinated massive arson attack' that has paralyzed rail network hours before opening ceremony 'has hallmarks of protest groups or Putin' sources say." (DM 26/7/24)You don't think maybe ... ?

David Ainsworth ● 153d

"Keep up the good work!""I support their actions".."but I don't"A von der Leyen view perhaps?"An environmental activist facing six criminal cases took his own life after a traumatic spell in jail and rising court fines. Xavier Gonzales-Trimmer, 22, was found dead by police in Richmond Park on February 20"https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/just-stop-oil-activist-facing-27308140

Ed Robinson ● 153d

Absolutely Hugh. Not sure if it was these 2 or the other 5 but I read one of the parents was quoted as pleading  for her child not to be jailed as she would miss her brothers wedding.Is that like someone on the M25 missing a cancer appointment or a funeral?Oh how I hope that turns out to be the case.Ah well what goes round comes round.

Andy Pike ● 153d

Indeed. The whole point of targeting that specific painting was that it is protected by a glass sheet. They had no intention of damaging the painting (and they probably didn't consider the possibility of damaging the frame, but the frame isn't exactly in the same league of "expensive and notable" as the painting itself.)For JSO it's exactly the kind of stunt that strikes the right balance of high newsworthiness and low impact that they are looking for.The individuals know the possible consequences, and they're willing to go to prison for their cause.They're not trying to change the minds of people who are massively anti-JSO - those kinds of people are a lost cause to them. If you just get annoyed/angry at their antics then you're not their target audience.They're targetting the people who are worried about what this planet will look like for future generations, or those are less aware of the problems that JSO are trying to highlight.And so every time someone who is massively anti-JSO bumps a thread about JSO it helps get it into the eyes of more people who will be increasingly sympathetic to their cause.Keep up the good work!(I support their actions but I don't contribute to JSO financially. Nor would I want to risk my freedom by joining in on their direct actions. I've been held up by one of their protests before and missed the first 15 minutes or something I was trying to get to, but that's a small price to pay. I've been held up far worse by weather, roads closed due to car accidents or other random things plenty of times.)

John Kettlekey ● 153d

Alas not! They damaged the frame, not the actual painting fortunately. No need to be so aggressive. I’m just stating facts given by the National Gallery.

Jane Carter ● 154d

Jane Carter, they did damage, get over it. Perhaps your one of them.

Barbara Stevens ● 154d

https://artreview.com/would-it-ever-be-ok-to-destroy-van-gogh-sunflowers/

Philippa Bond ● 154d

It would be such a shame  if some beastly judge made them miss some family party or God forbid the family trip to Tuscany.

Hugh Thompson ● 154d

Of course it happened! You asked why there were no security guards checking; there are security guards there now. The checking is very thorough. I’m not defending their actions but they did not damage the painting.they caused some damage to the frame.

Jane Carter ● 154d

Ms Stevens'They are just ruining their life, especially if they need a job in the future, employers would think twice about giving them a job thinking they might be disruptive'. That may have been the case in the past.However today there are so many protest groups looking to deploy 'activists' they will not be idle.And they won't have to take on a pleb job delivering pizzas or providing social care to fund this 'activism' as all these groups seem to be well financed.And of course the vast majority of them do seem to come from middle to upper-middle class families so the Bank of Mummy and Daddy will keep them well supplied with blue hair dye and yellow poster paint.What jolly good fun !

John Hawkes ● 154d

Well when ever it happened Jane it is certainly being high lighted by Roger Hallam going to jail. The young girls I think girls, could have had a maximum of 10 yrs. Also they caused 10000 amount of damage, to the picture. Also a John Constable's painting.

Barbara Stevens ● 154d

I'm glad I made you laugh Adam, I thought the one on the right was a young lad. Just can't tell these days.

Barbara Stevens ● 154d

"Women didn't get the vote by sitting at home quietly doing their embroidery - or taking in other people's washing..."Indeed not. And yet people still criticise the mass slaughter of the First World War.

David Ainsworth ● 154d

This incident happened 2 years ago. Security on entry to the National Gallery has been considerably tightened since then .

Jane Carter ● 154d

https://climate.copernicus.eu/new-record-daily-global-average-temperature-reached-july-2024#:~:text=While%20the%20temperature%20on%2021,day%20variations%20among%20alternative%20datasets.I haven't researched how the papers and other media originally reported this event.Women didn't get the vote by sitting at home quietly doing their embroidery - or taking in other people's washing...

Philippa Bond ● 154d

you made me laugh Barbara, they are both female although I dont know how they "identify"

Adam Tripp ● 154d

Apparently they did not damage the painting. They damaged the frame."She said the frame had been chosen by the National Gallery to house Sunflowers in 1999, as it was similar to the frames Van Gogh himself used to manufacture.“The 17th Century Italian frame was a piece of art in itself”, she said.“Through the defendant’s actions of throwing Heinz tomato soup on to the paintings, and the frame in particular, the well-preserved original surface of the frame had been damaged."https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/just-stop-oil-van-gogh-soup-national-gallery-criminal-damage-court-case-b1172169.html

David Ainsworth ● 154d

After seeing the 2 of them they look really young especially the lad. Somebody must have put them up to it.  They are just ruining their life, especially if they need a job in the future, employers would think twice about giving them a job thinking they might be disruptive. Why throw soup at a picture, what have they really gained by this, apart from destroying a painting.  Why haven't they got Security Guards checking when they go in.

Barbara Stevens ● 154d

Very odd that they would use a branded can of tomato soup to make a point about food inflation. Perhaps they didn't know non branded version were available (even in Waitrose)??Seems yet again they didn't do their homework concerning fruit and antique wood. This seems a common theme with their stunts.

Ed Robinson ● 154d

They could reverse their tactics and throw sunflowers at Andy Warhol's paintings of cans of Campbell's Soup.

David Ainsworth ● 154d

I thought all they wanted was press attention? Which they clearly got!

Michael Brigo ● 154d

"Both Plummer and Holland refused to say who they took instructions from before they carried out the publicity stunt."That will not help them when it comes to sentencing.An activist quotes the cost of living crisis as part of the justification.Vandalism is the opposite of Green. You can not have shared resources with high crime and vandalism. Yet they are promoting it!"“The cost of living crisis is part of the cost of oil crisis, fuel is unaffordable to millions of cold, hungry families. They can’t even afford to heat a tin of soup.”https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/14/just-stop-oil-activists-throw-soup-at-van-goghs-sunflowers

Ed Robinson ● 154d