Forum Topic

Wimbledon School Accident

Sure I heard it right, but what a tragedy, the young school girls who died due to a car going into their school, the lady driver was meant to have had a fit. I don't know enough about this, but should the lady have had a License to drive.

Barbara Stevens ● 363d24 Comments

As you say John, it could happen to anybody, have a heart attack or stroke while driving. Just a shame it was children etc.

Barbara Stevens ● 361d

Ms StevensNearly 20 years ago I had what was called a 'petit mal' whilst driving, left the road, went over a pavement but only hit a wall.First time this medical condition had shown itself and after 25+ years driving.Double lucky as it was a company car !But I reported the incident to the DVLA, my licence was suspended for a year and I was referred to Atkinson Morley for tests which came to no conclusion.I could then have asked for a review and licence re-instatement but decided better safe than sorry and would use public transport.As this woman seems to have a penchant for very big, heavy and expensive 4 X 4s and is not very good at driving one, she would do us all a favour if she did as I did.

John Hawkes ● 361d

Agreed, Andy. It appears no laws were broken and there was no intention to cause harm.

Michael Ixer ● 361d

Yes there is a fence not a wall around the school, but the fence looks undamaged, suggesting the car when through the metal gates.Anyway hindsight is a wonderful thing.I think we gave to accept this was a tragic accident

Andy Pike ● 361d

It wasn't a brick wall you can clearly see it was a fence. Google it Andy you can see the Ambulances outside.

Barbara Stevens ● 361d

There was a wall, but you have to have some way of getting in and out, ie entrances.In any incident of this type the police mechanics would have been all over the vehicle to check it was roadworthy.there is nothing in the reports that suggests it wasnt.

Andy Pike ● 362d

Why not put railings or a brick wall around schools. Also there could have been a problem with the breaks on the vehicle.

Barbara Stevens ● 362d

"I was giving an overview of the risk of this event occurring"There are IMO two significant factors IMO: one being the choice of vehicle the other being the unforeseen event.The choice of vehicle is significant IMO these are not ordinary vehicles although fashionable to be driven as so. These are high powered specialist vehicles being driven by people just doing the school run. The other unforeseen event can be reduced but there will always be a risk.With regard to the type of vehicle there is a scale with a tank at on end and pram/boogie board at the other.While in complete control of body & mind if one chooses to drive a high powered vehicle for the school run that will not stop if control is removed then this needs to be considered IMO.Now these situations do happen when for example a lorry loses control. The difference being the Lorry is designed to transport heavy goods.The suggestion by your reply is that these specialist vehicles are designed for the school run in an urban environment. Of course they can fulfil that role but the risk factors are not the same if the second event were to occur.The short answer is perhaps you can afford to drive a high powered vehicle, this does not mitigate against the responsibility that comes with such a high powered vehicle if such an event occurs.

Ed Robinson ● 362d

Are, ok Ed, lessons learned. In future we should have lighter vehicles but that would not change the outcome of this event. Of course a tank would have made short work of the school's perimeter fence but the chance of a tank passing by a Wimbledon school and also losing control seem pretty low.  (If one was we might be better seeking protection in an air raid shelter from bigger threats?) And the chances of a fit young tank driver having a fit are probably infinitesimal?I was giving an overview of the risk of this event occurring. I suspect most children are at a lot higher risk when travelling to and from school. As well as looking at the vehicles should we also give drivers annual health checks, regular driving tests to check their ability handling vehicles and knowledge of the latest version of the highway code. Few seem to have read it as many still don't give way to pedestrians when turning into side roads.Feel free to do a full risk assessment of threats, vulnerabilities, likelihood and impact of vehicle risks and schools (and the residual risk after applying mitigating factors; they're probably more relevant to future events as they can't be appplied retrospectively) but I doubt it will be much different to my finger in the air in relation to this event  😀 

Michael Ixer ● 362d

One could argue all sorts of things but some facts.Parts of Wimbledon are hilly - two wheel drives can struggle on the mildest of slopes but did the type of vehicle contribute  to the outcome?If it was a road worthy tank would it matter? Of course it would!Surely we must accept this incident was a combination of events and circumstances including: location, type of vehicle,  driver & frequency of those mentioned -  possibly others also.We are all human and may sadly without notice be struck by all manor of unforeseen conditions.But we do not all drive our kids to school in a vehicle that if such an event did occur it would have the same outcome.Now I'm not saying that an everyday hatchback can't kill someone I'm just stating that obviously the type of vehicle must factor into the outcome.The choice of the vehicle is often made before being inflicted by unforeseen circumstances.So why I agree with Andy's points - I think there are wider questions unanswered.I should just add that I would put the same questions to TFL that keep ordering larger and heavier buses that kill people!We need to think lighter!

Ed Robinson ● 362d

Ed. It was unpredictable in that there was no prior knowledge that the driver was vulnerable to a seizure, remote in that it seems very unfortunate that the seizure happened just as the driver was approaching a school and that children were in the trajectory of the car.Yes, Id agreed large, heavy cars are more of a danger to pedestrians and are unnecessary in London. Are you proposing a ban on them in cities? One could also argue certain driver aids would have helped prevent the accident. I've driven a friend's car in the US that had an automatic braking system if you got too close to the car in front; that would probably have applied the brakes on approaching the school's fence/wall and at least reduced the speed of impact. (I'm not sure if that's available in the UK. US cars are being fitted with a lot of driver aids for safety. I think that's because outside of some major conurbation there's little public transport but the elderly want to keep driving to maintain their independence. )

Michael Ixer ● 362d

"Sometimes risks are so remote and unpredictable"High powered, heavy and automatic vehicles largely driven by inexperienced drivers - yes it could happen with an experienced driver in a manual much smaller vehicle but odds would be different.If it had been a small hatchback would the outcome be the same? I doubt it.

Ed Robinson ● 362d

Andy, agreed, these incidents need to be thoroughly investigated if only to identify any lessons to be learned to avoid similar events in the future. Seems that this was one that would have be impossible to predict or prevent. If it had been a vehicle failure then it would have been referred back the manufacturer to see if it was a design problem or maintenence issue that needed recall or guidance notifications.It must be difficult for those involved to come to terms with the outcome in this case. Sometimes risks are so remote and unpredictable it's almost impossible to mitigate them.

Michael Ixer ● 362d

A similar incident could happen on Charlwood Road.For a year now a camera car has been parked on a restricted part of the road oblivious to the chaos of double parked, doggy maneuvers and inappropriate speed occuring behind it.As for the no left turn into Charlwood Road from URR - as predicted they are using Sainsbury' local to do u-turns. Careful stepping out from those shops!Odd that no tickets are handed out - perhaps just local incompetence??Sooner or later odds catch up.I dread to think how much the camera car costs in terms of wages and hardware luck WBC aren't short of a few bob.

Ed Robinson ● 362d

Hello Lucille,Yes, it was reported shortly after the tragic accident in July 2023 that the driver had had a medical episode.But yesterday, when I heard the news, rightly or wrongly, it somehow reminded me of Harry Dunn's case. I know, very different circumstances, but that is what it reminded me of.I have just seen this article published yesterday by the BBCWoman not charged over girls' school crash deathshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo#:~:text=The%20families%20have%20been%20informed,recollection%20of%20what%20took%20place%22.

Ivonne Holliday ● 362d

Surely in such tragic circumstances where 2 children died it is necessary to ensure that the investigation is thorough and arrives af the right conclusion.People seem to want to hang someone out to dry all the time rather than accept the driver is entitled to a fair and balanced investigation to avoid compounding one tragedy with a false conviction.Of course our hearts go out to the families who have lost their children and those injured but just for a moment let's think about how we would feel had we been driving and suffered a medical emergency. Could we live with ourselves? What would our mental state be going forward ? Give the lady a break and accept due process has been done. How she moves on from here is gonna be very difficult

Andy Pike ● 362d

I don't know, other than seeing reports about forensic services - like all other public services - being stretched, so perhaps a year isn't that surprising? Road traffic accidents are taken a lot more seriously these day; I suspect a couple of decades ago it would have been dismissed in a few weeks saying "driver had a seizure, accident" and in the1980s a friend of mine in the Met Police told me the first priority then was to move cars and get traffic moving again; these days the priority is to quarantine the road and do a full forensic investigation. (That's just reminded me that a few decades ago I was having a drink with him outside the Angelsey Arms, Bow Street, when a couple of cars had a shunt - not injuries, just some bent metalwork - and he left into action with his warrant card to stop the arguing and clear the road!)

Michael Ixer ● 362d

It was reported shortly after the tragic accident that the driver had had a medical episode. What favouritism do you feel has been applied?

Lucille Grant ● 362d

I agree, Michael.But a year later seems a bit too much, at least to me.It perhaps opens the doors to criticism about favouritism?

Ivonne Holliday ● 362d

It seems they needed to do a thorough engineering and medical investigation - I think there's a reluctance to release information piecemeal to determine online speculation. 

Michael Ixer ● 362d

It was a horrible and devastating accident.While epilepsy may come as an adult, what I found surprising is that the lady having an epileptic fit was reported only now and not soon after the accident.

Ivonne Holliday ● 362d

I suspect many people have undiagnosed medical conditions that they dont know about until they do.

Andy Pike ● 362d

Must have had a medical condition of some sort.

Barbara Stevens ● 362d

She had never had a fit before so no issue with her licence. Just a tragic accident.

Andy Pike ● 363d