Forum Topic

Safe Cycling

Good to see that causing death by cycling will soon be put on a par with causing death by car or motorcycle. Cyclists have an inalienable right to use our roads, but they also have a duty to behave responsibly. Crashing red lights and overtaking on the left are all too common, and it is about time the law was used to discourage - and punish - perpetrators.

Alexander MacLeod ● 405d22 Comments

If nothing else the UK used to pretend it stood for laws and manners. Since Thatcher that has gone.

Ed Robinson ● 396d

"One word sums up British cycling - lawless."  Unfortunately too many don't seem to like laws to cramp their style!

Philippa Bond ● 397d

> Good to see that causing death by cycling will soon be put on a par with causing death by car or motorcycle. Note that this law didn't make it through Parliament in time before the General Election was called and so it is effectively thrown away.We'll see if the next Government (or opposition) decides to put it through.

John Kettlekey ● 397d

Who is going to tell them?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg303j4142mo.amp

Ed Robinson ● 402d

Central, regional & local government have given cyclists complete freedom with no consequences.Countries with more cyclists actually have fairly strict rules that are enforced but we in the UK know better.Meanwhile in the real world you can't casually cycle to the high st and expect your bike (or all your bike) still to be there on your return.A Twenty minute walk would be a 5 mins cycle however it requires 10 mins - twice unsecuring your bicycle and securing it making such a journey an uneconomical risk.The TFL Santander scheme  only covers a tiny part of London with no plans for its expansion.Private cycle hire companies haven't been given any parking space in Wandsworth whilst also getting the blame for their cycles being hijacked.Cargo bikes have effectively no legislation covering them. Not uncommon to see the electric assisted cycles with hard metal fronts being driven through red lights whilst on the phone.One word to sums up UK cycling - lawless.Yet you can not have a green city with high crime and no law enforcement but sadly many in the UK think you can - just don't ask the for an example of where it is possible!

Ed Robinson ● 403d

Thank you, Richard,Hand in heart, the message of "the only culprits are drivers of motorized vehicles while cyclists are innocent saints or pedestrians are victims while they cross the road glued to their phones" is very loud and clear.At the moment, if anything happens to a cyclist it is automatically the driver's fault and I disagree.Coming back from Pembroke Lodge earlier today, a few cars stopped as it appeared a few deer wanted to cross Sawyer's Hill.  Alas, a cyclist overtook the stationary cars at speed and startled the deer.....  :-( :-(

Ivonne Holliday ● 403d

I agree with, Ivonne, there does seem to be a lack of courtesy on the roads these days - perhaps a result of frustration from too much traffic? I haven't cycled since I moved to London in my late teens (too much traffic compared with Essex even several decades ago!) and rarely drive now, so being mainly a pedestrian or user of public transport I'm not sure about the new laws for cyclists; I guess with the introduction and increasing use of electrically assisted bikes it's probably necessary. In practice, I would think better segregation of bikes from motorised traffic and "quiet" cycle routes would be a good solution - although often difficult to achieve - coupled with enforcement against cyclists illegally riding on pavements?Anyway, control of cars is now improving; UK cars are now being fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA), "speed limiters", as originally required in the EU but now also being fitted in the UK from July. I assume if one ignores you these or disables them then in the event of an accident if one's speed is recorded as being inappropriate the penalty will be increased? And possibly fully comprehensive insurance invalidated?https://www.evo.co.uk/news/22326/mandatory-speed-limiters-to-be-fitted-to-all-new-uk-cars-in-2024https://www.driving.org/uk-drivers-may-face-mandatory-speed-limiters-from-july/

Michael Ixer ● 403d

But, it depends which way you look at it, if a young child walked out behind a vehicle, while the mother was getting her shopping out of her car. Surely a bike or a car should be looking continually at the road ahead to make sure nothing runs out, even a animal. Bikes are going so fast and the elec scooters. They don't look like they could careless.

Barbara Stevens ● 403d

Of course your childhood experience was horrible, no one would deny that, but equally no one says that "the only culprits are drivers of motorized vehicles while cyclists are innocent saints or pedestrians are victims while they cross the road glued to their phones"

Richard Carter ● 403d

I think extending the Congestion Charge was tried once before? I suspect it's only a matter of time before we have road pricing. Most cars now have the technology for this (albeit probably because car manufacturers would prefer a leasing/subscription model of car use where they retain ownership and control of vehicles rather than outright sales customers) so I wouldn't be surprised if pay per mile with varying rates at different times of the day comes in the next decade ...

Michael Ixer ● 403d

Well Richard, when I was about 6 years old crossing an empty road holding on to my mother's hand, half-way across the road I was suddenly flung into the air higher than my mother's height by a passing cyclist who never stopped. Fast forward to today and nobody will deny that there are inconsiderate and dangerous drivers but, by no stretch of the imagination, all.  I would go even further, there are van drivers that are frightening and lorry drivers who are not necessarily dangerous but are driving juggernauts - much much heavier that 2 tonnes with limited view of what is happening at road level because their cabin is so high up.But talking about cyclists, there are quite a few that are beyond reckless.  It appears that they are overcome by an extreme sense of total freedom and do as I like when they get on their bike - just check Richmond Park.What is noticeable today is the total absence of courtesy on the road.  A reflexion of today's society?Accidents will happen, it is life sadly, but it is unrealistic to say the only culprits are drivers of motorized vehicles while cyclists are innocent saints or pedestrians are victims while they cross the road glued to their phones.

Ivonne Holliday ● 403d

" vehicles weighing at least a ton"But they are ULEZ compliant!Shame there is no support for an extended congestion zone.

Ed Robinson ● 404d

Wrong, as usual. The real issue, and please try to grasp it, is not my experience (that was just an example) but about the much too large numbers of people killed and injured by drivers of motorised vehicles and which fact, sadly, has become normalised as the inevitable consequence of the way transport is considered.

Richard Carter ● 404d

FGS, of course cyclists are not above the law and of course one bike-related death is one too many - I'm amazed I even have to state such an obvious point - but what seems to have escaped you is the huge disparity between the numbers of deaths caused by motorised vehicles and those caused by cyclists. By making a big thing of this you, and Duncan Smith and the rest of them, are like someone complaining that there aren't enough deckchairs on the Titanic whilst ignoring that fact that the ship is sinking.

Richard Carter ● 404d

Seems to me that Richard is trying to pull the wool over his own eyes. Of course a lot of accidents are caused by cars  - that’s a no-brainer - but that doesn't mean cyclists can be above the law. I was careful to note that they have clear-cut rights, but they need to behave. This issue was spotlighted by the accident where a mountain bike without a regulation front brake crashed into a woman who later died from her injuries. I wonder whether Richard agrees with me: Surely one bike-related death is too many?

Alexander MacLeod ● 404d

So it's all sorted now? No cyclists go through red lights any more?Or maybe they need to continue this, along with looking out for motor vehicles that run red lights, drivers using mobile phones whilst driving, making illegal turns, etc.The odd spot-check at a junction once in a while is good, but we need more of it.

John Kettlekey ● 404d

Richard, you appear to have lost 9 yrs with your data, we are now 2024.

Barbara Stevens ● 404d

John, they already did it about a month ago in London, Police everywhere, on the spot fines for cyclists.£50.

Barbara Stevens ● 404d

Blah Blah Blah Richard, always about you. Well this time we are all having ago at cyclists and motorbikes,

Barbara Stevens ● 404d

Not only that, it just replaces the existing offence of "Wanton and furious cycling" which, despite being a quite old law it was still valid and had a 100% conviction rate when applied. That old offence had a maximum term of 2 years, but no-one has ever been given that maximum sentence anyway so increasing the theoretical maximum sentence to 14 years isn't really going to do much.If you want offences to be on a par with motor vehicle drivers then expect such tough penalties as a £180 fine for having bald tires and skidding into a group of cyclists and killing 4 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/driver-who-killed-four-cyclists-636552), or 100 hours of community service for a lorry driver who killed a cyclist (https://news.stv.tv/west-central/lorry-driver-handed-community-sentence-for-killing-cyclist-in-glasgow).This change in offence will do nothing for day-to-day cycling.No-one is going to stop going through red lights because of this new offence. They're only going to stop doing that if there is a risk that they will get into trouble (stopped by police, fined, etc), which is unlikely given the current level of enforcement.You only have to think of how many times people complain about cyclists going through red lights, and how few deaths per year there are caused by cyclists. (Spoiler for the video below, more people a year are killed in the UK by lightning or cows than they are by cyclists.)It's worth listening to Chris Boardman's take on this from earlier today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hyb4h7

John Kettlekey ● 404d

Safe cycling, that would be wonderful: if only it could be achieved! Unfortunately, I've been knocked down at least twice by careless drivers, one time with serious injuries that required a month's stay in hospital.The real danger here is clearly not cyclists but heedless (and worse) drivers of vehicles weighing at least a ton, so would it not be better to concentrate on what causes the greatest harm?  Of pedestrians killed or seriously injured in England during 2005–2015, only 1.3% were caused by cyclists. In other words, you are around 80 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by a motorised vehicle than you are by a cyclist: that's why this whole silly debate is aimed at the wrong target

Richard Carter ● 404d

Yes, very true, Putney High street, they couldn't careless the way they go past traffic lights. Also on the main roads, cars stop, cyclists don't.

Barbara Stevens ● 405d