Forum Topic

Gaza Demos

As  an ex Vietnam protester I recognises the game,for students it showsYou are active not passiveYou are against authorityYou meet similar and if lucky get friendlyYou signal virtueYou show you care while others just go about their (selfish) businessNot least your parentsBut its OK you wake up and grow up

Hugh Thompson ● 913d48 Comments

You missed one out:We were right to protest against that appalling war.

Richard Carter ● 913d

Was at the Sussex campus yesterday selling black and white chequered t towels for a fiver with a pound off if the buyer could show me Gaza on a map and name the river they sing about.Needless to say few discounts given 😁

Andy Pike ● 913d

Mr ThompsonThen you look at the calendar and find you are about to enter your third year and exams are appearing on the horizon.And of course you will have to get a job to finance life in the real world, and wearing a keffiyeh at your first interview will only be an advantage if you want to be a Guardian journalist.

John Hawkes ● 913d

Probably more of an idea than about Vietnam!  We now have internet and there is a lot more television coverage and there is social media connecting us.  More people will have visited the modern Middle East because you can now fly non-stop by jet to your destination.  The world has become a lot smaller.

Philippa Bond ● 913d

What is internet? Is it some new fangled transport system? And jet planes  who'd  have thought.

Andy Pike ● 913d

A virtual sales exercise, Andy? If that is true it's a damning statement of education in the UK after 14 years of Tory led governments ... isn't geography on the curriculum these days?

Michael Ixer ● 913d

The Internet new, Andy? The first ARPANET connections, the backbone of interconnected research and military computers which later grew into what is now the internet, were established in 1969.While checking the date on Wikipedia I came across this MIT rule for using ARPANET - how times have changed!"A 1982 handbook on computing at MIT's AI Lab stated regarding network etiquette:It is considered illegal to use the ARPANet for anything which is not in direct support of Government business ... personal messages to other ARPANet subscribers (for example, to arrange a get-together or check and say a friendly hello) are generally not considered harmful ... Sending electronic mail over the ARPANet for commercial profit or political purposes is both anti-social and illegal. By sending such messages, you can offend many people, and it is possible to get MIT in serious trouble with the Government agencies which manage the ARPANet."

Michael Ixer ● 913d

Michael my internet comment was meant to be ironical , but never mind

Andy Pike ● 913d

I realised that, but it got me checking something because I'd been discussing the development of the Internet from ARPANET with some friends via Zoom last night and our memories were getting a bit vague. When I saw the MIT rules I thought I'd post anyway - and some people don't realise the original "internet" design goes back to the mid sixties, perhaps why it's so insecure! :-)

Michael Ixer ● 913d

Your indifference to the mass slaughter of men, women and children does you no credit.

Joe Cairns ● 913d

In my lifetime long distance passenger travel has changed from ship to prop plane to jet plane. That's how I've travelled.  Computers used to be huge and have their own rooms and now you can not only book but buy a plane ticket to take you across the globe from the small phone in your hand - and keep in touch from there.History is supposed to teach us how to recognise the horrors we have seen and endured and learned about in the past and how to not  repeat them.

Philippa Bond ● 912d

Mr Cairns'Your indifference to the mass slaughter of men, women and children does you no credit'.I am not sure who you are addressing this comment to but to my recollection the pogrom last October by Palestinian men was against Jewish women and children.Doubtless when some of these brave men came up against the IDF and their retaliation, they did not find the fight so easy and some lost their lives.Hopefully they and their Palestinian comrades will have learnt a lesson.

John Hawkes ● 912d

That's an interesting point. Although we have very powerful computers in our hands, or on our laps or desktops much of the times these are computing with datacentres - large warehouses of hundreds (thousands?) of servers and data storage units - that are doing the real work of booking our rail and theatre tickets, processing our online shopping orders, running our financial services, playing our music and video services, redirecting our email, phone calls and messages, etc. 

Michael Ixer ● 912d

Agreed but it does mean nowadays that attending meetings no longer has to happen with all the palaver of travelling as you can be there most effectively especially when on screen too!

Philippa Bond ● 912d

We're definitely off topic here! Yes, video conferencing is great for those routine progress and regular catch up meetings; they're great time and cost savers. However, it's interesting since the pandemic how many people are pleased to get back to face-to-face meetings at the astronomy and other science,  tech and infosec,  etc conferences and seminars that I attend. It's the networking over tea and coffee, or wine and beer where informal discussions take place about topics that wouldn't be mentioned on teleconferences that people miss ...

Michael Ixer ● 912d

For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwindHosea 8:7

Hugh Thompson ● 912d

Is that Frank Herbert? Love the Dune books but he was a notorious homophobe, i'd be a bit wary of quoting him.

Michael Brigo ● 912d

Is Hosea 8:7 not in the Old Testament?

Ivonne Holliday ● 912d

What on earth is that? Sounds like a nice ale.

Michael Brigo ● 912d

FYI Hosea is between the books of Daniel and Joel

Hugh Thompson ● 912d

It's a complete mystery to me why people take seriously this stuff written by ignorant men thousands of years ago, as if they should carry some sort of weight in the 21st century.

Richard Carter ● 912d

Richard. That was my initial thought, what relevance has something written in circa 700 BCE to do with the 21st C. But then we've got the Brexit whirlwind because of the wind blown by the gullible people who believed the lies of so called leaders ...

Michael Ixer ● 912d

Bloody hell how on earth do you make a brexit connection to the bible.Carter rubbished everyone who worships the bible and yoh connect it to brexit.Yeh  the worlds gone mad but its folk like you who are leading.

Andy Pike ● 912d

Presumably Richard when you are wandering around London on a saturday with your Palestinian pals you rubbish their religious teachings too. Or is it just the bible you find so unbelievable.

Andy Pike ● 912d

Andy, as I'm an atheist I thought those of you that followed a religion might be pleased I could relate your ancient text to a modern even. After all I can still relate the bible to history and a guide to living, some bits of which may or may not be relevant in the 21C, or may have been corrupted or mistranslated over the years. I just consider it a document produced by humans not the word of God. As I say, I thought you might be pleased by that!

Michael Ixer ● 912d

Of course not! Even you must realise that was a daft suggestion.

Richard Carter ● 912d

I'm not at all religious. Whatever belief ( or hope) of an a forgiving god left me when my grandson was didnt make it afterc36 weeks of nurturing.

Andy Pike ● 912d

But surely if you believe religious teachings are fairy stories you would be happy to tell all your friends, old and new.So its just christianity you publicly rubbish, maybe because there is no fear of retribution. Whereas your new friends would gladly murder you for rubbishing their beliefs. Man of principle!!

Andy Pike ● 912d

As I understand it there are various different translations/versions of all these religious teachings.

Philippa Bond ● 912d

Of course, and your point is?

Andy Pike ● 912d

Andy, it's hard to make it clearer, but as far as I'm concerned all religious stories, whether Christian, Jewish, Islamic and all the rest of them, are just that, stories.

Richard Carter ● 912d

So why not tell that to your new friends I'm sure they'd love to here your views on the prophet. Do you think they'd be understanding and accept that you are entitled to an opinion? As of course you are in this country or do you think theh might take rather more serious measures to quieten your voice.

Andy Pike ● 912d

You can camp outside a university and attend a demo and still have long distance meetings.

Philippa Bond ● 912d

Just look at the different ways that Christians behave and believe in their different churches and disagree with each other.

Philippa Bond ● 912d

I was horrified at school when we had a member of the Catholic Church visit us and tell us that unless we were Catholic we could not go to Heaven.  To this day I can see corridors with high walls along which people of different beliefs are travelling unable to see and acknowledge each other and each believing in their own God.  I would certainly never want to believe dogmatically in any text and beware of it although much of our language can be referenced to great ancient texts simply because the sentiments still remain.The events of 7 October was not the start of this and is not an excuse for indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilians.  Gaza for years has been described as an open prison with its blockaded coast and lack of freedom of movement for the inhabitants - half of whom were Palestinian families living there as a result of being displaced from elsewhere in the Nakba of 1948.

Philippa Bond ● 911d

Mr Carter'It's a complete mystery to me why people take seriously this stuff written by ignorant men thousands of years ago, as if they should carry some sort of weight in the 21st century'.Perhaps some might be making a similar comment in the future about your musings on this Forum.Were of course anyone to recall them !But seriously are you saying that no ancient writings contain anything of relevance or comfort concerning life today ?That of the ancient Greek and Roman philosophers ?The writers of the Nordic myths that I think you have said form the basis for the work of Wagner you so admire ?  And does your comment pertain to the Koran ?(Be careful when you answer this last question).

John Hawkes ● 911d

Mr Pike'Presumably Richard when you are wandering around London on a saturday with your Palestinian pals you rubbish their religious teachings too. Or is it just the bible you find so unbelievable'.Good point and it conjures up such a smile inducing image !Are all Palestinians practicing Muslims ?How do they take to an apostate amongst their midst ?

John Hawkes ● 911d

Ms Bond'As I understand it there are various different translations/versions of all these religious teachings'.Certainly true within Islam.Iranian Muslims are in the main Shia; in Iraq the split is 55:45 Shia:Sunni; and in Saudi the vast majority are Sunni as are most Palestinians.With first millennia religion being the bedrock of Arab politics no wonder the region is so unstable, war-prone and even backward.Following his earlier post, I am sure Mr Carter would agree with me on this at least.Strange though that Saudi seems so ambivalent to the Palestine cause.Guess it prefers wealth and, albeit coercive, social stability.Oh and yes before I am corrected by any anti-Israel poster, Judaism has its factions too.

John Hawkes ● 911d

Mr Pike 'more serious measures to quieten your voice'.Are you suggesting that there are Muslims in this country that do not practice a 'Religion of Peace' and that in the name of that religion have committed fatal and violent crimes against those who do not believe as they do ? Surely not !

John Hawkes ● 911d

Ms Bond'Just look at the different ways that Christians behave and believe in their different churches and disagree with each other'.The last inter-Christian wars in the UK ended in the 16th century did they not ?And similarly in France and Holland.As regards Ireland, the fight was not between different religionists.It was between those that wanted everyone on the island to be governed by the Irish in the Irish republic which has a defacto Catholic state religion, and those 'north of the border', who were Protestant and also UK citizens and whose main objective was to continue to be governed by the UK who would let them practice their religion as they wanted.

John Hawkes ● 911d

Mr Hawkes. Believes in fairy tales and is frightened of offending those readers of said fairytales. What a guy! 🤣

Freddie Francis ● 911d

You are very wrong to think that all Palestinians are Muslims!  There certainly were lots of different religions including Christians (and we know there are lots of different Christians), Druze, Baha'i, Jews and Samaritans.

Philippa Bond ● 911d

But it would be correct to say that the majority of Palestinians are Muslim.

Lucille Grant ● 911d

Richard has a new placard for this Saturdays March.'The prophet was an ignorant old man.But remember I'm on your side'Anyone want to give odds on the likelihood of him getting back to putney in one piece.

Andy Pike ● 911d

Mr Hawkes.  My understanding was that both the Russian Orthodox Church and Ukrainian Orthodox Church - both Christian - were going through the same war mantra of  "praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" to gain aadvantage from God (a Christian God must be confused they're not both turning the other cheek as instructed to do in the new testament?) only it's the Irainians and Koreans passing it to Russia and the US and Europe passing it to Ukrainian ...

Michael Ixer ● 911d

Mr Francis'Mr Hawkes. Believes in fairy tales and is frightened of offending those readers of said fairytales. What a guy! 🤣'Are you referring to me ?!

John Hawkes ● 910d

It is clear that the Gaza demos on university campuses in America and in this country are not about a ceasefire but about Israel’s right to exist. At Oxford University protesters were asked by the organisers to sign a declaration in favour of the ‘thawabit’. This document proclaims the  ‘right to resist’ (i.e. intifada), the ’right to self determination’ (i.e. statehood), ‘Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine’ and ‘the right of Palestinian refugees to return’ (to their homes and lands). The last of these ‘rights’, implying an influx of millions of refugees and their descendants, would of course mean the end of Israel as a Jewish homeland. Needless to say, no mention is made of the exodus, in many cases forced and without compensation, of Jews from Muslim countries in North Africa and the Middle East.

Steven Rose ● 910d

Mr Rose'At Oxford University protesters were asked by the organisers to sign a declaration in favour of the ‘thawabit’. This document proclaims the  ‘right to resist’ (i.e. intifada), the ’right to self determination’ (i.e. statehood), ‘Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine’ and ‘the right of Palestinian refugees to return’ (to their homes and lands)'.Still they have got to get these signings done by the 15th of June because then they all go home for a 4 month holiday.How long will it then take them to come down from the 'high' of excessive self-righteousness ?Unless of course they maintain it by giving up the beach in order to work in the refugee camps.Long gone are the days when the biggest concern at this time of year was trying to qualify for the Rugby 'Cuppers' final.What a selfish and shallow lot we were in the '60s !

John Hawkes ● 910d