Forum Topic

Roger Hallam

Front page of forum being sentenced today, he used drones to try and shut down Heathrow Airport.

Barbara Stevens ● 669d85 Comments

There's are whole lists of the Foundations and family trusts built on oil and gas that fund climate change denial - many of which are US based - the US being a lot bigger than here!https://www.desmog.com/2024/07/24/labour-urged-release-cumbria-coal-mine-documents-chris-skidmore-ex-net-zero-tsar/

Philippa Bond ● 557d

"what would you expect?"Strange logic - because we have foreign interference we need more foreign interference to counter it!We need less foreign interference and more accountability and transparency. That's not going to come from abroad.

Ed Robinson ● 560d

Hope Roger Hallam doesn't mind Petroleum Jelly while he's in prison.

Barbara Stevens ● 560d

Julie Burchill wrote an article in Spiked on 21 February 2024 asking why all the climate fanatics are posh, calling them “upper crust, half wit, eco loons”. She points out Cressida Gethin has dropped out of her studies for 2 years (that’ll be 6 years now if she does her whole 4 year sentence). Julie Burchill says the protesters brought misery to ordinary people.  “A great number of those 4,000 souls whose holidays she ruined will have worked all year round in jobs they don’t like to pay for that week of escape”.

Martine Guy ● 560d

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2438399-flower-farm-could-supply-nickel-for-electric-vehicle-batteries/?utm_source=nshak&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nshak_250624&utm_term=Newsletter%20NSHAK_Fix%20the%20Planet

Philippa Bond ● 560d

When you have big foreign organisations with links to oil and gas companies funding our climate change denying MPs and Think Tanks and APPGs what would you expect?

Philippa Bond ● 560d

Rubbish in = Rubbish outand makes for a lot less effort!

Philippa Bond ● 560d

https://businessnorway.com/articles/closing-the-recycling-gap-norways-circular-battery-economy?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACxMFxqNI-RPfXwgBkz1KPGFxwSCn&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItYrJ__W8hwMVHYtQBh344hbUEAAYAyAAEgLhqPD_BwE

Philippa Bond ● 560d

I'll try to do better, but I am not inclined to spend more than a limited proportion of my very limited time on it.The First Gulf War made me realise that the behaviour of nations made my efforts pointless.  https://tinyurl.com/mv9nwfrj"A terrible beauty is born"?

David Ainsworth ● 560d

We're well on the way to moving from a LINEAR (take-make-waste) economy to a CIRCULAR one where our waste is regarded as a resource.  Batteries are now being recycled and many reused for other suitable applications before being recycled where the different metals are retrieved for reuse.It has become much more important to recycle from as much of our waste as we can and batteries always need to be dealt with very carefully as they can all cause fires - and that includes in the collection lorries both recycling and general waste. Remember the waste hierarchy starts with REDUCING the overall amount.  So you can choose to start by Refusing any unsolicited and unwanted 'free' (but not to the planet in terms of energy and materials) gifts, and being more careful  in your choices so as to buy better made longer lasting items when and if you can and REPAIRING them when they need it and if you no longer want them hand them on/donate or sell for REUSING before you finally dispose of them at the end of their life for RECYCLING!  Recycling isn't the first step in waste reduction!BTW a lot of work has been done and is being done on using hydrogen energy and there are cars and buses on the road that use this.  I understand that storage of hydrogen is a problem.Science doesn't stand still and changes are constantly happening as and when new ideas are developed and tested.

Philippa Bond ● 560d

I don't really think that it is waning support for green measures - it iis more to do with the sudden increased cost especially since the price ofmortgages snd cost of living including energy increased so much since the schemes the Tories came up with did not work because there are not enough engineers to carry out the work!

Philippa Bond ● 560d

They do indeed fund protests in many countries all of which have a lower carbon footprint per capita than the US.Most will have much lower fuel prices than the UK.The question is it the cause or the activism that they are funding??

Ed Robinson ● 561d

> You have to ask why any US based organisations would fund such activities in the UK given the huge differences in fuel consumption between the US & UK.They probably fund activities in many countries. Which countries they choose is probably a complicated question based on the power of protest in the country (little point funding similar protests in highly authoritarian countries for example), how much publicity it will generate (Wimbledon last year, Stonehenge this year, etc) and many other factors.Less likely to have as much impact in a more car-centric country like the United States so if global change is the end goal then best to spend in places where it will more of an impact.

John Kettlekey ● 561d

Seeing the conversation is about the cause and not the action for which they were jailed.You have to ask why any US based organisations would fund such activities in the UK given the huge differences in fuel consumption between the US & UK.The UK has one of the highest petrol/diesel prices in the world due to taxation.If you look at the rankings our prices are far more expensive than the US and looking at other measures such as carbon footprint (almost half) to vehicle miles per capita (almost a third).  https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/diesel_prices/https://frontiergroup.org/resources/fact-file-americans-drive-most/

Ed Robinson ● 561d

No Sue. And I wouldn't be brave enough either to take the risks they go to doing what they do in drawing attention to the dangers of simply just carrying on with our business-as-usual lives.

Philippa Bond ● 561d

No problem, Martine.Just seen a good example of an emission free delivery service in East Putney ...https://flic.kr/p/2q5CGRfPerhaps we need more of this :-)

Michael Ixer ● 561d

Sorry, Michael I, my comment wasn’t aimed at you. Apologies for not being clear. I think Mr JSO doesn’t work as he is a farmer turned revolutionary, so he needs to get money from somewhere.  

Martine Guy ● 561d

I'm not going to sneer, Martine. I suppose the MoL stated it's sources and detailed whether these were donations to him personally or to one of his organisations,  XR, etc?Personally, I'd be wary of donating to any individual or organisation that wasn't a registered charity or company with audited accounts. 

Michael Ixer ● 561d

Are you one of Hallam's devoted patrons Philippa?

Sue Hammond ● 561d

I know this will make your day, Michael, so you can have a good old sneer but I read it on MailOnline: “He currently earns around £1,000 a month from 120 plus ‘patrons’ who have signed up to make monthly donations to support him” I think I’d substitute the word ‘mugs’ for ‘patrons’.

Martine Guy ● 561d

When you are in a hole, keep digging?Probably not.

David Ainsworth ● 561d

Ivonne, yes, fewer vehicles are the obvious answer. Perhaps mileage tax on all cars to subsidies rail travel and busses? At least with electric generated centrally there's more scope for clean solar of wind generation, or carbon capture from hydrocarbon generation? There's also a lot of investment in recycling of the battery materials because mining is so damaging and expensive. Perhaps the answer is less travelling and commuting, and more online interaction but I doubt it as post lockdown we also to prefer to meet face-to-face :-)

Michael Ixer ● 561d

That is true, Philippa.But electric vehicles are not the answer either.  Their batteries do not produce electricity, they store electricity produced elsewhere, be it from carbon, uranium or diesel powered generators. A typical battery in an electric car weighs some 450kg and its size is equivalent to a suitcase.  It has 11kg of lithium, 27kg of nickel, 20kg of magnesium, 14kg of cobalt, 90 kg of copper and 180kg of aluminium, steel and plastic.  It has more than 6,000 individual cells all containing lithium ions inside.  In order to make each battery, you have to process 11,000kg of salt for lithium, 15,000kg of cobalt, 2,270kg of nickel resin y 11,000kg of copper.  In total, you have to dig some 225,000kg of earth for one battery only.  Please note that nickel compounds are known to be carcinogenic to humans and animals, while cobalt compounds produce tumors in animals and are probably carcinogenic to humans.These batteries are neither green nor are they better for human health.I am not defending the oil industry at all, just drawing attention that electric vehicles are not the solution either.

Ivonne Holliday ● 561d

"I am sure I read Mr Just Stop Oil (as Camilla Long calls him) also receives donations from his devoted followers"Must be true then with high quality evidence like that!

Michael Brigo ● 561d

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Inconvenient_TruthScientists including those working for big oil companies have known for years of the problems and many of them have been warning us for years in  an attempt to draw attention and  encourage changes to mitigate the effects of climate change.  Others particularly with vested interests in the status quo have been denying this existence.  Al Gore's film was made in 2006.

Philippa Bond ● 561d

Extract from their website below.JSO/XR/IB are all Hallam brands. Although some report that they are separate they seem to share resources and activists.I'm not aware that any of them have any legal entities, so I do not know how they could be transparent about their funding."WHO FUNDS YOU? WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO?Critical seed funding for Just Stop Oil was provided by Climate Emergency Fund and Adam McKay in 2022 and 2023. Just Stop Oil is now largely backed by small donations from the public, although the Climate Emergency Fund continues to contribute."

Ed Robinson ● 562d

Michael, these are the big donations, but I am sure I read Mr Just Stop Oil (as Camilla Long calls him) also receives donations from his devoted followers.

Martine Guy ● 562d

This article seems to give a breakdown of JSO income: "From March to August 2023, the group received 51% of its funding from public donations, 21% from donations over £20,000, 16% from green energy industrialist Dale Vince, 10% from Hollywood filmmaker Adam McKay and 2% from the U.S.-based Climate Emergency Fund, the group told TIME in an emailed statement on Nov. 11." ...https://time.com/6334072/just-stop-oil-climate-change-activist-group/

Michael Ixer ● 562d

The key should be thrown away.

Lucille Grant ● 562d

I read somewhere, unfortunately can’t find the article, that his followers give him regular donations of money, add to that his shoplifting, he seems to be a sponger, imo.  I think his followers are mugs.

Martine Guy ● 562d

Presumably his stunts are part of his ongoing practical exams on route to his masters in civil disobedience.One wonders if he paid the £9k a year tuition fees or did he get assistance from the state.

Andy Pike ● 562d

Camilla Long in today’s Sunday Times: ”Most of Hallam’s stunts are charmless by the way: defacing property; shoplifting food “to highlight the instability of global food distribution”.  How does stealing do that?  If he weren’t old and middle class with a PhD in  — yes “civil disobedience”, you would describe him as a career criminal”.

Martine Guy ● 562d

The view that one's political opponents are just being 'divisive' is frequently used by as a ploy to stifle debate.

Steven Rose ● 562d

"as I believe they are voted in to serve their constituents"I think you may have to look at the oath they take - it doesn't mention constituents.You are explaining reasons for the cause not the act. Two different things.

Ed Robinson ● 563d

Ed. You are wrong as the funding does make a difference - a great difference -  as I believe they are voted in to serve their constituents ie OUR interests and how many people know or have the time to search out what their MP has declared let alone looked any further into their backgound or interests or past a party manifesto.  Many payments and gifts of holidays, flights, tickets to events etc are bound to go undeclared as some are suddenly remembered when questioned.The last Govt was very split over this and cut their policies and departments and action.  There were and still are no doubt those working to keep the population ignorant of what needs doing to mitigate climate change.Those more interested in their own status and power than the interests of their constituents and the country as a whole.There are also newspapers shamelessly trying their best to cause division in the population.

Philippa Bond ● 563d

Funding of MP's is a different issue. Many - perhaps even most, are funded by foreign governments or people linked to foreign governments or powerful organisations.None of which is really relevant to the protestors holding hostage those on average that have not only less political power but a lower carbon footprint.A custodial sentence was right IMO - 5 years I think was too high but it needs to be significant to deter other groups from doing the same.I ask again would those that say it was just an inconvenience be happy for other groups to use the same tactics?Just because you agree with the cause it does not excuse the behaviour.Here are the sentencing notes:https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

Ed Robinson ● 563d

PhillipaThere is a difference between lawful protesting freedom of speech and the stunts that Hallam and his squad carried out. Take off the blinkers and look at the judgement, and their behaviour on court.

Andy Pike ● 563d

The big problem re Roger Hallam and Just Stop Oil has been that we have had and may still have MPs who have been taking donations from oil companies to fund their campaigns and also fund Think Tanks.  We have also had MPs and Ministers resign as a result of Govt inaction on mitigating the effects of Climate Change.  That includes Govt attempting to make all protesting ie our freedom speech illegal.

Philippa Bond ● 563d

Exactly, Adam.  Totally agree.

Martine Guy ● 563d

the logic of comparing Hallam's sentence to other crimes where people often receive suspended sentences or short prison sentence is flawed. The problem isn't with Hallam's sentence, the problem is with unduly light sentences for other crimes such as death by dangerous driving.

Adam Tripp ● 563d

That’s true, Philippa, but we are talking about Roger Hallam and his followers.  These people don’t care about others.  They think they are special.

Martine Guy ● 563d

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Inconvenient_TruthThere are casualties of day to day decisions in life all the time who don't make the headlines.  There are also newspapers - some more notorious than others - who vastly exaggerate or may even just create stories for a good headline.

Philippa Bond ● 563d

I agree, Andy. Isn’t some of their behaviour/attitude down to them being middle/upper middle class?  They think they can do what they like when it comes to protests.  The effect these protests have on other people doesn’t matter to them because they consider themselves above others.  They are snobs, imo.

Martine Guy ● 563d

And their behaviour in the dock was outrageous. Clearly they thought they'd get away with it.7 times they were arrested in the dock ir the witness box for refusing to move. I think they got off lightly.

Andy Pike ● 563d

I take it you have not read the judge's sentencing notes?Perhaps you could explain to the person with aggressive cancer that missed their appointment and couldn't get another for two months as being just highly inconvenienced!

Ed Robinson ● 563d

Only they weren't.  They were inconvenienced and in some cases highly inconvenienced.  A shame that more attention has and had not been paid to dealing with the increasing problems we are having now and will continue to have by governments unless we face up to them and find sensible solutions.

Philippa Bond ● 563d

Barbara he did say you were blunt.But he was applauding you and telling you not to change.

Andy Pike ● 564d

Andy, at 9.49, must have got it wrong as Nick used my name, saying about being blunt and people don't like it, I thought he was referring to me. Well if it wasn't meant for me I apologize a bit early in the morning.

Barbara Stevens ● 564d

Judges sentencing notes have now been published.It wasn't a tribal matter or a one-off event as the judge made clear. Worth a read IMO.The length of the sentence is another matter but bear in mind that the IRA switched to similar tactics of disrupting transport, effectively holding travellers hostage. If another organization had done the same would people be of the same opinion? I think not. These were not non-violent actions, being held purposely against your will is a form of violence.

Ed Robinson ● 564d

Cant see where Nick is having a go at you.

Andy Pike ● 564d

Nick, if you say their dossers and everything else what are you having ago at me for. Your saying what you want to.

Barbara Stevens ● 564d

And "Insulate Britain"?  Don't you think that that is a very direct name for a protest and lobbying group just as Just Stop Oil is?!  By the time they appeared those worried by the ignored and impending continued greater consequences of climate change obviously felt that greater bluntness was needed to get through to people how important it STILL IS.  A situation which has now been made worse for people by their lack of spare money for what can be a very disruptive process when comprehensive which can have difficulties and cause problems if not done carefully and correctly.  Why?  Largely because of increased FUEL*  charges.*FUEL is still being used for a lot more than personal cars!!

Philippa Bond ● 564d

"The sentence is fantastic news, sending out a message to the vermin"OK, so now we know that AI does work, but it tends to reuse mindless cliches and a restricted vocabulary then.

David Ainsworth ● 564d

The sentence is fantastic news, sending out a message to the vermin that think it is OK to disrupt and stop people going about their everyday lives.These gullible fools need to go out and get a real job rather than being brainwashed by the net zero money grabbing hoax!

Julie Gent ● 564d

Nick, I'm blunt, so if it upsets other forum members who have been on here years, I really don't think I upset them what so ever, they obviously know what I'm like and ignore me.  So they should impose heavy sentences, why should they get away with it.

Barbara Stevens ● 564d

Sadly, all this is a distraction from the real issue - that of climate change. The length of Hallam et al's sentences or whether they're suspended isn't going to fix that.

Michael Ixer ● 564d

So I'm a 'certain kind of commentator ' I suppose I could say the same about you Richard.Or we could accept we have different views and different thresholds for humour.You then may dispense with your urges to name call and label.

Andy Pike ● 564d

It is possible to characterise a suspended sentence as a soft option but it c an be very effective as a deterrent - if they reoffend during the period of the suspension they can not only be sentenced for the new offence but have the suspended one activated.Of course there comes a point where it's clearly not working in the case of persistent offenders and then the courts have to react accordingly.  However 5 years still looks disproportionate compared to, say, a suspended sentence for dangerous driving where somebody has been killed.The good thing about unpaid work in the community is that it takes a lot of free time away from the offender as well as - ideally - making them do something useful to society.  The problem is that the probation service has been so weakened by the Grayling "reforms", now being reversed, and years of under-funding, that it cannot always ensure productive work is undertaken or properly supervised.

Jonathan Callaway ● 564d

It's standard procedure for a certain type of commenter to make an unpleasant remark and the, when criticised, to claim it was only a joke.

Richard Carter ● 564d

Whats the relevance of using car drivers who kil and get ofd lightl? It's highly relevant Because the JSO protestors were caused of plotting to block the roads.

Richard Carter ● 564d

There is nothing to suggest his followers ( grown up and well educated adults) have been either brainwashed or groomed.

Andy Pike ● 564d

Barbara, the fact is the law is trying to send out a message to others. You keep your views on them . They’re blunt which others don’t like. They have imposed heavy sentences to send out a message that it won’t be tolerated. These protestors would be better off doing a day or twos work and contributing to society that way like others. Rather than stopping everyone working and costing the government and us all a fortune.It doesn’t surprise me who sides with these dossers that don’t contribute to society whatsoever.

Nick Gulliford ● 564d

This is on the front page of the Forum now. Also photo of his helpers or who have been brainwashed or groomed.

Barbara Stevens ● 564d

And the fruit loop comment was a tongue in cheek pointer towards our own Strawberry man Matt and his crowd some time back.Hardly a moronic comment but I forgot Mr Carter has no sense of humour when on his bandwagon.  Whatever this weeks one is.

Andy Pike ● 564d

Johnathan, they are already doing unpaid work and annoying ordinary people who do want to work. What would community unpaid work do to them, nothing they would just laugh and say we got off lightly. They deserve what they got.

Barbara Stevens ● 564d

But these are not minor inconveniences. As the judge detailed many individuals were very adversely affected by the action. Huge costs were racked up. Also Hallam had a previous conviction  ( and suspended sentence) for flying drones at Heathrow causing delay but also potentially a major fatal  accident.Clearly the soft touch of a suspended sentence did not work so a community order or similar is hardly likely to work either.Richard why does every argument of yours have to use a  car driver as the comparator? It's a lazy argument

Andy Pike ● 564d

It is open to the judicial system to impose restraining orders, and/or apply suspended sentences and/or impose community orders such as unpaid work in the community.  Arguably all far more effective disposals. I believe 250 hours of unpaid work is the maximum but that may have changed since I was a magistrate. These protesters do not belong in our overcrowded prisons. I would expect these sentences to be appealed.

Jonathan Callaway ● 564d

Good, so glad they have locked the scruffy idiot up. Disrupting peoples lives while trying to get to hospital, stopping people getting to work, causing traffic jams, that cause more fumes. Enrolling ordinary people to do his dirty work, because they have nothing better to do, using glue. Utter madness.  Give yourself a rest Richard, it just proves your on your own, until your one friend comes on here and sticks up for you. Having Hammersmith Bridge shut is a bit like stopping people getting to where they need to go. That's another scam. China would have had it done in a couple of days.

Barbara Stevens ● 564d

If people believe that Hallam & co. are morons and fruit loops, then why make martyrs of them?“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." (President John F Kennedy)Meanwhile moronic lethal motorists who knew what they were doing get slapped on the wrist.

David Ainsworth ● 564d

I'm really shocked at some of the foul comments here (though it should be no surpise): "morons", "fruit loop gang" etc. Five years in prison for not even actually doing anything, whilst drivers who kill on the roads are all too often given suspended sentences.The Just Stop Oil protesters are not mindless morons, but people who are rightly concerned about the looming climate disaster. You may disagree with their actions, but it's totally disproportionate to levy such huge sentences for causing minor delays.

Richard Carter ● 564d

This might make others think twice before embarking on dubious stunts.maybe the days of the fruit loop gang are numbered

Andy Pike ● 564d

Well said Sue.

Nick Gulliford ● 564d

Excellent news! Four of his fellow morons were each sentenced to 4 years so well done Judge Hehir! 👏🏻https://mol.im/a/13648263

Sue Hammond ● 564d

Shady organisations & funding - much from overseas - completely lacking transparency. Unpopular protests targeting ordinary people. Stopping busses & jumping on top of tube trains not to mention vandalism.They helped the government usher through some of the most draconian laws against protest. These laws will not be repealed by Labour - in fact Labour will probably use them more.

Ed Robinson ● 565d

Well, their tactics were not that dissimilar to Greenpeace.I always found direct action to be too harsh and controversial.I wonder, just wonder, if this imprisonment is not similar to that of the suffragettes?  Or, as Michael says, like the Greenham Common protesters.Drones around Heathrow Airport are unforgivable.  So is stopping the M25 or other major roads when somebody was in a hurry to get to hospital.We must seriously consider if their messages were incorrect.  And, whether I agree or not, somehow, the messages they tried to convey were correct.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 565d

5 years seem excessive - there again under one of David Blunkett's laws someone served 18 years for stealing a coat and a mobile phone.

Ed Robinson ● 565d

The sentence ought to be appealed for being utterly disproportionate when compared even to those handed out for dangerous drivers who kill others through their actions. There are a lot of other crimes where this sentence also looks way out of line. Of course it’s also the law thanks to the last government. So those who might feel some sympathy for Hallam and others given hefty jail terms can only look to the new government to rectify it. David is right to make the comparison with an actual dangerous driver conviction.

Jonathan Callaway ● 565d

"jailed for 5 years...""Tragedies on our roads are an all too common part of modern life. Last week saw the culmination of two cases at Sheffield Crown Court where defendants stood accused of killing cyclists through either dangerous or careless driving. In both cases, despite the judge having the option of sending the offenders to prison, the drivers instead received suspended prison sentences, meaning they won’t automatically serve prison time." (Tribune 1/7/24)

David Ainsworth ● 565d

jailed for 5 years...

Adam Tripp ● 565d

Two sensible policies Philippa but has Roger Hallam ever taken the time to lobby his MP or anyone else about introducing them? I doubt it. He and others like him seem to believe that the answer is attention seeking stunts. These just tend to polarise opinion to the extent that around 20% of our population now believe man made climate change is a scam. The Labour Party didn't feel confident enough to run with its Green Investment programme because of waning support. Thinking that you can change people's minds by annoying them simply doesn't work and in fact has the opposite effect.

Peter Higgins ● 663d

Yes, he has learned that Governments - despite warnings about climate changes from scientists over very many years - have been extremely busy either ignoring them or denying them and failing miserably in their duty as MPs to look after the interests of the residents of the country as a whole so as to mitigate the consequences.Yes, VAT on insulation should go and so should VAT on refurbishment work to older buildings.

Philippa Bond ● 667d

Well he certainly has something, to create so many spin off organisations with followers from all genders doing crazy stuff.The question is has the tactics alienated more people than it has converted? Has it been effective? We still have VAT on insulation a low hanging fruit one would have thought.There is some sensible stuff just like with Farage and other trendy people however when you look behind it it's all rather shallow.People's parliament, yes great if we were a republic but we are a Kingdom with an antiquated pseudo democracy.

Ed Robinson ● 667d

He looks like to me a right creep, likes controlling people. How so many women listen to him I don't know, he must be brainwashing them.

Barbara Stevens ● 667d

As far as I remember the Greeham Common protesters did not use nuclear missiles at home when not protesting. Many of the XR cult membership consist of people living a high carbon footprint lifestyle whilst distrupting ordinary people going about their daily lives, which includes blocking bus lanes. Many take high carbon holidays using flights. These are not monks preaching redemption but cardinals with all the trimmings telling other people how they should live.

Ed Robinson ● 667d

Mmm. Sensibly they've given Hallam and his cohorts a suspended sentence. Prison authorities don't like inmates who believe they have right on their side as they often refuse to cooperate and are hence disruptive. I once read prison warders hated having the Greeham Common protesters in prison because they knew and stated their rights, and made this clear to other prisoners who just did what the warders wanted for a quiet life :-/

Michael Ixer ● 668d