Forum Topic

Is Britain broken?

Looking more widely at the Post Office/Horizon affair, it's clear that there's an awful pattern. The most obvious cases are:• the contaminated blood scandal• Windrush• HillsboroughBut there are many others; to take just a few:• the dangerous cladding issue• our polluted water and the bungled water privatisation process• the crumbling schools and other public buildings• tax evasion/use of tax havensAnd underlying all, the climate crisis and the government's refusal to take it seriously. Whilst it blethers on about the imaginary "war on motorists" and culture wars, it either ignores more serious issues or makes them worse (as in maxing-out North Sea oil), to the extent that I begin to wonder if anything works properly.

Richard Carter ● 104d51 Comments

Yes, austerity measures instituted by George Osborne were the initial cause for the deterioration of public services.Add to this the benefits of Brexit plus COVID....  Which led to increasing taxes mainly payable by the middle and lower earning bands.  Those with high earnings manage to make investments in other shores.....Yes, more people are drawing on resources as there are an incredible number of people who are at work but require food banks and other benefits to survive.

Ivonne Holliday ● 85d

"We are an international moderate country and do not want or need extremists of any sort dictating how we should act or think."Well, I'm sure we can all agree on that, so it doesn't take us much further forward.

Richard Carter ● 85d

Mr WheelerMy understanding is that there are 934,000 job vacancies in the UK and 1.46 million unemployed.However numbers are hard to come by so if anyone has better data I would be interested to see it.However it looks as if some of the 1.46 million could get a job !

John Hawkes ● 85d

Blaming austerity a red herring when the reality is tax take from GDP is at historically high levels and you are missing the real point and trying to distract from the fact that there are simply too many people drawing on resources. We are an international moderate country and do not want or need extremists of any sort dictating how we should act or think.

Robert Wheeler ● 85d

Mr Carter'Ha ha, you're just miffed because Robert Wheeler beat you to the punch'.Grow up !

John Hawkes ● 85d

Mr Hawkes.Ha ha, you're just miffed because Robert Wheeler beat you to the punch.

Richard Carter ● 85d

Mr Carter'And, BTW, congratulations on being the first to piggyback an attack on asylum seekers onto that terrible assault in Clapham'.You miss the point again.I read that the perpetrator was a former asylum seeker from Afghanistan who was allowed to stay in the UK despite pleading guilty to one charge of sexual assault and one of exposure, following two failed asylum applications'. No one would deny the right of those suffering genuine political or religious persecution in their own country to seek refuge in this country.However those that abuse the system in gaining asylum under false pretences and then commit violent crime whilst here should be returned to where they came from.Let his homeland sort out the mess.Or perhaps you or Gary Lineker could take him in hand.

John Hawkes ● 85d

"The elephant in the room is while tax is historically high share of GDP public services cannot cope with the sheer number of people drawing on them."Of course the public services can't cope because spending, under the foolish austerity policy, has been cut back so much! And this in the sixth largest economy in the world...And, BTW, congratulations on being the first to piggyback an attack on asylum seekers onto that terrible assault in Clapham.

Richard Carter ● 85d

The elephant in the room is while tax is historically high share of GDP public services cannot cope with the sheer number of people drawing on them.The tragic attack in Clapham highlights the issue with a twice failed asylum seeker who was already a convicted sex offender carrying out his attack on a female with her children.  Democratically elected MPs hounded out of government due to extremists.  Schools and places of worship that need security guards.Respect and assimilation is needed for a society to function.  Not labels and name calling.  The rate of growth is unsustainable.

Robert Wheeler ● 85d

There are good and bad people within different faiths.

Philippa Bond ● 86d

Mr IxerI am no theologian but regards - 'love your neighbour'.I take this to mean I should not subject him/her as an individual to any attack in any form and should help them when such is required.Just as I would expect them to treat me similarly.Nothing to do with 'love' or even an emotional affection for them.'turn the other cheek,'I am afraid this depends on what they have done to me and for what reason.I doubt if I would 'turn the other cheek' and forgive if one  of my family or friends were killed in one of the numerous Islamist terrorist attacks that have occurred.Would you ?The people I detest and believe deserve no forgiveness are those that encourage, support and make excuses for extreme Islamist anti-western and anti-semitic groups and their actions. Just as there are 'good' and 'bad' political doctrines, there are also 'good' and 'bad' people.One has to make judgements and take sides.

John Hawkes ● 86d

Also, please see this article about financial crisis in Councils, including the well-run ones.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68159001

Ivonne Holliday ● 86d

Mr CarteWhat I am trying to point out is that as well as the inadequacies you highlight in this country's law enforcement and political systems there is another even more egregious one.This is that they do not seem able to get a grip on the ever increasing Islamist tendencies and movements that have perpetrated so many terrorist atrocities.Fear of being subject to anything similar has caused Mike Freer the MP for Finchley and Golders Green to stand down reported below.https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nothing-will-change-after-mike-freer-stands-down/ This article lists these atrocities if you are at all interested in knowing what they were and also describes the fear of Islamist attacks many Jews experience in our capital.However I doubt you will accept what is said and put it all down to 'far right propaganda from a Conservative supporting publication in the MSM'.

John Hawkes ● 86d

Mr Hawkes. Have you researched your statement? While I'd agree that many of us who are now secular were indoctrinated in the Christian religion at home and school in our younger days - some parts quite sensible: love your neighbour, turn the other cheek, etc; although I'm not sure you subscribe to those from your comments here and elsewhere?Anyway, I couldn't in a quick search find any statistics to analyse quickly and simply. India made up over 9% of the current immigrants to the UK in 2021, with the EU making up about a third of immigrants that year. China, Nigeria and South African also featured in the top 10 countries of immigrants.So, I'd estimate approximately 40-50% of immigrants would be from countries with either a Christian background in the EU, perhaps secular from China or predominately Hindu (with some Sikhs) from India; like our very own prime minister most Hindus and their families seemto have integrated well - or as well as far as racism from the existing British population will allow them? (I'm sure we both remember the racist attitudes of who could rent certain properties or be employed to carry out some jobs?)Interesting, during the past couple of years non-EU immigration has increased so perhaps Brexit has diluted immigration from EU countries with a Christian background? Of course this is a very simplistic view; there's long term immigration where those of African descent, mainly via the West Indies, probably have a Christian background following indoctrination from missionaries in their home counties? And those from Pakistan with a mainly Muslim background. When looking at statistics there's an added complexity that some immigrants are on temporary work and student visas. It's of course untrue that all Muslims will not mix; some of my Muslim colleagues would come to the pub with Christian, Hindu, Sikh and secular colleagues, they just wouldn't drink - or, alternatively, they'd be happy to go for a chat over coffee.

Michael Ixer ● 86d

Perhaps, Mr Hawke, I could take you back to my original post describing many of the things that are wrong/don’t work in this country. The (by no means comprehensive) list included the following:• the Post Office/Horizon affair • the contaminated blood scandal• the Windrush affair• Hillsborough• the dangerous cladding issue• our polluted water and the bungled water privatisation process• the crumbling schools and other public buildings• tax evasion/use of tax havens• and underlying all, the climate crisis and the government's refusal to take it seriously.So perhaps you could explain how your Islamophobic rant has anything at all to do with these problems, instead of being your usual tedious hobby horse.

Richard Carter ● 86d

Mr RoseAbsolutely right.However in my view you have missed out on the fact that ours was once a country which though all its citizens were certainly not believers, was built upon a Christian ethos.That being said those who were of a different faith were free to practice it in a spirit of 'live and let live'.With an increase in immigration we are now being subjected to the social forces of militant Islamist groups typified by those that organise and participate in pro-Palestinian marches.These groups wish to impose an alien culture upon us which would drastically change the way of life we have been accustomed to leading.

John Hawkes ● 86d

If Britain is broken, it is because its citizens no longer have a sense of civic virtue. This is is manifested in many ways:1) a lack of respect for authority, exemplified by  assaults on teachers, nurses and the police2) a preoccupation with emotion over reason, with the result, for example, that the Covid Enquiry, which is supposed to investigate what went wrong and to make recommendations to avoid a similar disaster in the future, is scheduled to last over two years in order to accommodate individuals and communities to express their personal grief and anger3) selfish pay claims and damaging strike action in the public sector,  exemplified by the doctors’ strikes when over seven million people in this country are waiting for treatment4) a lack of respect for democracy both among politicians and the public, exemplified by the attempts to overturn the result of the EU Referendum and the Scottish Referendum5) idleness, as shown by the 8.7 million economically inactive people in this country and the 120 000 children who miss at least half their time in school6) political tribalism, so that any measures proposed or statements made by political opponents are immediately regarded as suspect or summarily  dismissed.

Steven Rose ● 87d

Yes, even PM Sunak said NI had the best of both worlds with access to the UK AND EU. Surely, that's admitting the rest of the UK is worse off without access to the EU!However, I can see a benefits on the new controls from tomorrow on food coming from the EU to the UK: it ought to encourage people to eat a vegan diet:https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-border-controls-coming-into-effect-today-will-force-up-price-of-food-and-flowers-13060123

Michael Ixer ● 87d

Not so much broken as falling apart - ever since the stupidity of the vote in favour of quitting the EU - the route to sanity: simple - just re-join the EU (as so very many of the articles now appearing in the press so very clearly indicate) and move on from the deceit of so very many self-serving politicians. If re-joining the EU sticks in some persons craw then a first sensible step would be to only re-join the single market and customs union. IMHO.

Clifford Cowell ● 87d

Another article in the FT is interesting (not the HTSI nonsense!) in looking at why it's such a struggle to build big projects here. It takes the Lower Thames Crossing as a case study; so far, it's produced 359,000 pages of planning applications at a cost of £800 million (these are not misprints!) - and it hasn't yet even got planning approval!.The article suggests three main reasons for this kind of failure:1. Endless sub- and sub-sub-contracting.2. Political interference and a pricing model that invariably inflates costs hugely, and3. The UK's convoluted planning process.With all this, it's a wonder anything ever gets built. The piece is well worth reading, but it's behind the FT paywall, unfortunately

Richard Carter ● 89d

I agree with you Andy succession should be planned for but that is not what has been happening.  There hasn't been proper planning for training.  It's not to do with articles read - why don't you ask those working in these areas?  And have a look at the outstanding job vacancies at the same time!  This is why there have been more strikes.I remember in the past that there have had to be big recruitment drives and then when years later it becomes time for those recruited to retire if the terms and working conditions no longer suit those workers will not be persuaded to work longer.  An awful lot more responsibility comes with some jobs than with others and that should be respected.

Philippa Bond ● 96d

I wonder.Police in Norfolk did not respond to a 999 call and four people were dead.....Police numbers in the UK are down (why would BoJo promise an additional 20,000 in the 2019 election?)Let us not talk about the Post Office scandal as there are no words to describe it.Royal Mail will no longer distribute post on Saturdays because it is very costly.Tata are closing the steel works in Wales.The NHS is struggling to cope because of lack of staff - not because they are staff on strike, but because staff have left and not replaced. Politicians have proved to be the biggest liars and have become incredibly wealthy ones....No, Britain has not broken - it has been decimated!Shame on us all.

Ivonne Holliday ● 98d

It would be a very poor business that replaced experienced staff with novices. Surely they would ensure continuity by preparing existing staff for taking over the seniir roles with the novices starting at ths bottom and working their way up, as we all did. Succession planning Seems you are reading the wrong articles Phillupa.

Andy Pike ● 98d

This is happening in all areas where so many experienced people including those in the medical professions are lost from the NHS and it takes years to train and replace them with people with experience.  Many youngsters either do not stay the course or leave shortly after.  There is a high drop out rate and with poor and stressful working conditions this has increased.  It is easiest to work in a tight team when you have team members with experience and not when there are several novices and agency workers who do not know their way around and when there are often shortages of staff and not enough back up.

Philippa Bond ● 98d

But when you lose workers with years of experience behind them and replace them with them with novices with no or little experience the numbers may look or be the same (as bandied back and forth as just numbers in the HOC) but will not in effect give the same depth of experience and quality of service.

Philippa Bond ● 98d

On the positive note a couple of bob on their council tax was saved at the expense of  inefficient policing and high crime.Who in their right minds would agree to such policies?It's the same with utilities.No doubt a few on this forum gained a few quid during privatisations but have paid many times over in increased bills.Now there is literally people swimming in s*&t.Thatcherite policies for decades - be it Labour or Conservative have not stood te test of time.

Ed Robinson ● 99d

Quite a good article on that topic herehttps://bylinetimes.com/2023/04/18/hundreds-of-police-stations-have-shut-under-the-conservatives-at-a-cost-of-rising-crime/

Michael Brigo ● 100d

If you close local police stations as both Khan & Boris has done - then you actually need more police for the same service.Travel time to and from the centralised stations has to be taken into account.It would be interesting to see some figures on this.I guess it could be as little as 2 x 30 mins which is an hour or approx 13% of a working day.

Ed Robinson ● 101d

Looking at the figures for met police numbers since 2002 cant see any reduction of 20,000 in LondonGive or take 1000 or 2 the numbers seem reasonably static at around 30 000 each year

Andy Pike ● 101d

Some people seem to have forgotten that it was the tories who reduced the number of police by 20,000.

Michael Brigo ● 101d

London have had a preview of what the rest of the country can look forward to if the polls are correct.

Andy Pike ● 101d

Martine, yes I think there was a lady police woman as well with him. when you see the size of the Security Guards in Sainsbury's, how this young Policeman is going to do anything I don't know.

Barbara Stevens ● 102d

Before anybody starts picking on me, he looked like young bobby in Eastenders. There was nothing of him.

Barbara Stevens ● 102d

Barbara, I saw this last week.  They were having a very long chat.  And yes the policeman looked about 15.

Martine Guy ● 102d

If I could just say, we usually don't see any Police walking in Putney High St, last week there were 2 on the corner of Werter Rd, as I came from Sainsbury's a man was trying to explain something to them as he had taken video on his phone.  they didn't want to know. He kept telling them, I couldn't hear the rest of the conversation. But then saw one of them a couple of days later, not being rude but he looked very pale and about 15 yrs old if somebody pushed him he wouldn't be standing long.  I know everybody has to start somewhere.

Barbara Stevens ● 102d

Mr CarterDoubtless child abuse is a crime committed by people of all races or ethnicities.However it appears that abuse on a large and organised scale seems to be carried out by gangs of immigrants of Pakistani heritage.My simple explanation for this is, though I may be wrong, that their Muslim religion gives them cover and a assumed rationale and forgiveness for their behaviour, for it seems to be  a faith where women are very much dominated by and subservient to men.However it may not be a religious issue but a cultural one for most of perpetrators seem to be peasants who have come to the UK from very backward parts of Pakistan where such attitudes and behaviour are deemed natural.And a political acceptance of 'multi culturalism' by Labour and others of the left, rather than pressure being bought to bear for immigrants to assimilate and live within our social mores is deemed 'racism'.It would also seem to me that it is foreign cultural standards that also account for a greater number of incidents of knife crime being carried out in areas of London with the largest number of Asian, middle eastern and and Afro-Caribbean immigrants.This is not to say of course that all such immigrants are violent but that those that are do seem to come from such communities.Sadiq Khan seems to have a strange plan for reducing such crime.It is said that Khan believes that the reason why people are getting stabbed is because the mobile phones in their pockets are so attractive, and thus they are almost begging to be stolen and for their owners to be knifed.He thinks the answer isn't to take more knives off the streets, but to get Apple and Google to make the phones less attractive so that murderous thieves aren't provoked into stealing them.To his credit however he is strongly calling for zombie and other such knives to be banned.But some see the rise in knife crime related to drug gang wars.The question is do the police feel they have Mayoral and Labour support to be more assertive in carrying out 'stop and search' where they think individuals are carrying knives.

John Hawkes ● 102d

"What do you suggest the next Labour Government does differently ?"I would suggest that people do not vote for either of the two parties. Policies and candidates are indistinguishable from one another. There will be no change, in fact things could get worse.Nor the Lib Dem. Greens are an unknown, looking at Germany and other EU countries they make the Lib Dens seem decent.

Ed Robinson ● 103d

It does seem that the Rochdale case is an example of predominantly ethnic Pakistanis committing this foul crime. But in general, it is simply wrong that it is dominated by south Asians: the Home Office's reported that "Research has found that group-based CSE [Child Sex Exploitation] offenders are most commonly White. Some studies suggest an over-representation of Black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations. However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending." (page 8 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf).But this is but one aspect of policing, and to include it in a list of 'Broken Britain' we'd need to widen it to include policing generally, for example, the fact that our own Metropolitan Police is inadequate and in special measures, institutionally racist and generally rotten to the core. And it's not the only force that is not up to scratch.

Richard Carter ● 103d

Mr Carter'Looking more widely at the Post Office/Horizon affair, it's clear that there's an awful pattern. The most obvious cases are:• the contaminated blood scandal• Windrush• HillsboroughBut there are many others.......'There are indeed.One is the complete incompetence of the Police and Social Services in Rochdale to stamp out early enough the abuse of young white girls by in the main men of Pakistani origin and prosecute the perpetrators.'A new report published today revealed the plight faced by the girls who were the subject of this abuse and the struggle they faced to be believed, as well as the harassment when they gave evidence against their abusers'. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12964565/rochdale-grooming-gang-victims-horror-stories-fatal-injection.html

John Hawkes ● 103d

John, by stopping unaccountable organisations doing the breaking. As described in Camilla Cavendish’s excellent FT piece. https://apple.news/ArMb9Wop5SzqTwJZPHPThKA
Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 103d

Mr Carter'Is Britain broken' ?What do you suggest the next Labour Government does differently ?Serious question.

John Hawkes ● 103d

Mr Carter'The government has shamefacedly had to admit that, since private companies will be extracting the oil and gas, any gained from this will be sold on the international markets'.So why can't we buy it ?

John Hawkes ● 103d

Well Michael, if they can't get medication they won't keep plugging killer vaccines.

Barbara Stevens ● 103d

The Covid social & finanial destruction  operation & killer vaccines.

Michael Brown ● 103d

Perhaps if you were on the Stockholm Bibby you might get everything you need. Too many people who have not paid NHS. To many top bods getting high wages and not doing their job efficiently. It's everywhere Council Properties, pot holes. Hospital maintenance, Chemists shutting. High rents on properties. Also how come Omaze can give away properties in the millions, when the person who gives the money expects it go to the Charity, not the CEO's on £365,000 a year or what ever. The top people just make sure they are OK. Hope you get your medication as I do mine and everybody else.

Barbara Stevens ● 103d

It is worrying, Nick: my sympathies!There’s a piece in today’s Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/14/why-is-uk-being-hit-by-medicine-supply-shortages) that suggests that, although there are more general, Europe-wide issues like the impact of the war in Ukraine on supply chains,“….  industry insiders say there are problems peculiar to Britain. The plummeting value of the pound following the Brexit referendum has made it more expensive for the NHS to buy medicines. Then there is the voluntary scheme introduced by the government in 2019 in an attempt to ensure that NHS spending on branded medicines did not grow by more than 2% in a year. As of the end of 2023, there was a 26% levy on revenues of drug manufacturers earned beyond the cap. The companies claim it has made the UK an unattractive place to do business. It has, they say, acted as a drag on investment. From this year that cap will rise to allow a 4% annual rise in spending. The British Generic Manufacturers Association says the government is still penny pinching.Then there is a lack of joined up planning and communication. In 2015, guidance published by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (Nice) prompted a hike in hormone replacement therapy (HRT) prescriptions but manufacturers proved unable to meet demand. There were still HRT shortages last year. In November 2022, pharmacists in the UK began reporting difficulties in procuring the antibiotic amoxicillin. At the same time Rishi Sunak was saying there was ample supply. A week later, a medicine shortage notification was issued, followed by an export ban. It is perhaps little wonder then that four in five pharmacy owners say they have experienced aggression from patients due to medicine supply issues. Patience with the system is also running out fast."

Richard Carter ● 103d

Richard, And to add to your list appalling of incompetence we now have a shortage of crucial drugs through the NHS. As someone who has depended on insulin for 60 years and the new glucose monitoring sensors that have transformed the lives of so many Type 1 diabetics — should I be worried about security of supply? I’m dead without them. As an example, many epileptics who depend on drugs to control their condition are finding it difficult to get what they need. Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 103d

Michael, it is of course the corporations that are (in many of the cases I mentioned) originally responsible for them, but the combination of inadequate and incompetent regulation and oversight that you mention has been allowed by feeble governments. And, in the case of the Windrush and Hillsborough scandals for example, it is the authorities here that are directly responsible.

Richard Carter ● 104d

Oh dear, you've fallen for the energy security myth. The government has shamefacedly had to admit that, since private companies will be extracting the oil and gas, any gained from this will be sold on the international markets.

Richard Carter ● 104d

Is it Britain that's broken - or the corporations, some international, that take advantage of a combination of inadequate and incompetent regulation and oversight, in some cases brought about by hasty privatisation for ideological reasons?

Michael Ixer ● 104d

Mr CarterCheer up !'it either ignores more serious issues or makes them worse (as in maxing-out North Sea oil), to the extent that I begin to wonder if anything works properly'.Well, certainly your central heating won't work properly if we can't make use of our gas reserve assets and have to rely on Mr Putin.Just ask the Germans !Anyway Starmer and Raynor will be in charge soon and we can all walk hand in hand to a glorious contented future.

John Hawkes ● 104d