Forum Topic

Two cheeks

"How things change. You wouldn’t have caught Ed Miliband or Jeremy Corbyn having a love-in with Tony Blair at his thinktank’s annual Future of Britain conference. Then again, I doubt they would have got an invite. It would have been a bit like chucking a slab of kryptonite into the mix. No one would have got out alive.Keir Starmer is a different breed of Labour leader. A man with an eye on the Downing Street prize. A pragmatist who will do whatever it takes to win an election. Someone who will happily pivot from being a paid-up member of Corbyn’s shadow cabinet to dumping his former boss like a stone. Who recognises politics is a grubby game, one where allegiances can be short-lived and all that matters is winning. There’s nothing to be gained by being on the right side of the argument if you’re left twiddling your thumbs on the opposition benches.The current Labour leader looks at Blair and forgives a lot. If not everything. He doesn’t see a former prime minister who dragged the country into an illegal war with Iraq and developed a messiah complex. He just sees a man who broke new territory for Labour by winning three general elections on the bounce. You can forgive a lot for that. And what Starmer wouldn’t give to do the same. Both understand that the key to success is not expecting the electorate to come closer to you. It’s getting the party closer to the electorate. Even if a few principles get trashed along the way."https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/18/blair-and-starmer-bask-in-each-others-reflected-glory"It’s getting the party closer to the electorate."Or perhaps getting the party closer to the manipulators of the electorate.Here we go again. 2019 Vote for Johnson because he isn't Corbyn.2024? Vote for Starmer because he isn't Johnson/Sunak.But he is Poundland Blair?

David Ainsworth ● 698d11 Comments

Starmer changes his mind like the weather and will say anything to get elected.  Untrustworthy is an understatement.

Sue Hammond ● 694d

The following is a list of policies to which Keir Starmer subscribed before he became Labour leader:1) Jeremy Corbyn should be the next Prime Minister2) a second Referendum3) freedom of movement4) the renationalisation of the utilities5) the abolition of tuition fees6) an end to outsourcing in the NHS.He has now abandoned all these policies: he has barred Corbyn from standing as a Labour candidate, he has ruled out a second Referendum, he now thinks there should be stricter border controls, he has no plans to renationalise the utilities, he has scrapped the abolition of tuition fees and he has said that the private sector is underused in the NHS.His current position on these issues is in fact indistinguishable from that of the Conservatives.In addition to these policy reversals there are also a number of other issues on which one suspects Starmer agrees with Rishi Sunak but is afraid to say so, for fear of alienating the Left of his party:1) he has declined to say what a woman is2) he has not confirmed that Labour will reverse the policy of sending illegal migrants to third countries3) he has refused either to condemn or support the demand for a 35% pay increase by doctors.What does Labour under his leadership stand for that is different from what is offered by the Conservatives under Rishi Sunak?

Steven Rose ● 694d

"Sorry, David, did not see the photo you refer to.""Blair and Starmer bask in each other’s reflected glory"https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/18/blair-and-starmer-bask-in-each-others-reflected-gloryOnly 20 years ago, Starmer would have been attacking Blair over the Iraq chicanery, but now all is forgiven and forgotten, as New New Labour is on course for victory. I expect that Sir Tony even waived the standard charge of £200k for the meet.

David Ainsworth ● 697d

Sorry, David, did not see the photo you refer to.

Ivonne Holliday ● 697d

"All I know is that politics is not a very squeeky clean business, regardless of the party you wish to belong to."How did the photo of Starmer and Blair happy together yesterday make you feel?Forgive and forget?

David Ainsworth ● 697d

"Someone who will happily pivot from being a paid-up member of Corbyn’s shadow cabinet to dumping his former boss like a stone. Who recognises politics is a grubby game, one where allegiances can be short-lived and all that matters is winning."So, please change this to:"Someone who will happily pivot from being a paid-up member of May's cabinet to dumping his former boss like a stone. Who recognises politics is a grubby game, one where allegiances can be short-lived and all that matters is winning."What do you think?All I know is that politics is not a very squeeky clean business, regardless of the party you wish to belong to.

Ivonne Holliday ● 697d

Of course that’s your personal decision. I have enjoyed the discussion.

Jane Carter ● 697d

But, nationally, if not voting Labour is voting Conservative  then not voting Conservative is voting Labour, is it not? And I shall vote for neither. And, of course, the behaviour of much of the Right and Centre of the Labour Party under Corbyn was, in effect, helping the Conservatives and Johnson to win. And now many of those same people are in power in the Labour Party. So, no thanks. I'll keep the personal element, because I have taken the last 7 years personally. And I took 2003 personally too. But I came back on board eventually and foolishly. Shame on me.

David Ainsworth ● 697d

But, David, TINA, NOTA or even NO TA, in Putney, = voting Conservative. I see where you are coming from but better to take out the personal element - Putney Labour Party is hardly going to know that you can’t bring yourself to vote ‘for a party that would never accept me as a member”. BTW I’m not a member but I’m impressed by Fleur.

Jane Carter ● 697d

"Well possibly because what’s the alternative?".TINA? There is no alternative?I may go for NOTA. None of the above. (or maybe No Ta).I have never voted Conservative. And I cannot bring myself to vote for a party that would never accept me as a member now.

David Ainsworth ● 697d

2024? Vote for Starmer because he isn't Johnson/Sunak?Well possibly because what’s the alternative?  And bear in mind that we would actually be voting for Fleur Anderson who probably shares your cynicism re Starmer and has proved herself to be an excellent MP for Putney.

Jane Carter ● 697d