Forum Topic

Water Board

It hasn't happened to us, but has anybody else in Putney had the waterboard telling them they are using too much water. There saying they want you to have a water meter.

Barbara Stevens ● 1034d65 Comments

Yes. Got a card in my door on Tuesday to say a meter had been fitted.

Maxine Campbell ● 1020d

Thames Water will fit a water meter inside a flat if it can't be fitted outside: https://www.thameswater.co.uk/help/water-meters/getting-a-water-meter This may not be possible in some blocks of flats as I noted before but my understanding is that all new build flats and flats in buildings converted into multiple units must have separate, metered, water supplies. Yorkshire water seemed to have produced a clear policy on this: https://www.yorkshirewater.com/developers/water/water-meter-locations-for-developers/
Surely, something all builders keep up-to-date with?

Michael Ixer ● 1023d

Yes Barbara. But wherever it is, it is measuring the amount of water passing through it and Thames Water (aka "The Water Board") gets the readings.

Michael Winstanley ● 1023d

Yes, so you did and you could just have easily answered "through the bloody mail, how do you think?".However, you missed the point - and maybe you still do. If you have a water meter, they know how much water your house uses. that is how they calculate your bill and that is also how they might know if you had a leak.

Michael Winstanley ● 1023d

I think it's time for those of us who know to stop trying to help those that clearly dont want to know.

Andy Pike ● 1023d

Yes, Barbara, my mum did like her cups of tea :-)

Michael Ixer ● 1023d

Why did she benefit, did you mother make non stop cups of tea or coffee.

Barbara Stevens ● 1023d

Michael,it is under the pavement. They can't do it to a house that has different floors. If the person has the whole house they can.

Barbara Stevens ● 1023d

There is one more variation, the block my late mother lived in has a single water meter for the residential part with the bill being apportioned as part of the service charges.  My mother, who was in most of the day, probably benefitted from that compared to those at work during the day.

Michael Ixer ● 1023d

I've lost track of where this is going. Just to clarify:If a water meter is fitted (it will normally be put in the street if possible) charges will be based on the meter reading showing how much has been used; it will be read remotely;If a water meter cannot be fitted - for example, in some blocks flats where there are separate feeds to each flat the rising main, water from the cold water tank, hot water and heating (where there are common boilers) then charges are based on the rateable value.

Michael Ixer ● 1023d

Meant tap on. How they tell otherwise I don't know, I thought a water bill was all about the same price what they charge in properties.

Barbara Stevens ● 1023d

Ivonne, my other half took a picture when he was working nearby it's like a gas meter with digits. It shows numbers. He thinks it works by vibration as you turn a top on, then the water comes into the house.

Barbara Stevens ● 1023d

"No, I asked how they would know how much to charge you for water when you have a meter." ???In your previous post you said:  "Wherever it is, Thames Water must be able to read it, else how would they send you a bill?"To which I answered it would be as it is now based on rateable value of the property.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1023d

There are a number of remote meter reading technologies. I've no idea which one Thames Water uses.Incidentally, I'm sure anyone under the age of 40 (50?) must be thinking WTF is a "Water Board", is the CIA reading meters if we won't tell them the figures!

Michael Ixer ● 1023d

Just a comment. The water meter installed in the street outside our house is read remotely, I assume the same technology could be used for water meters installed inside buildings, unless it relies on a radio network.and the building has a steel cage structure…

Michael Ixer ● 1023d

No, I asked how they would know how much to charge you for water when you have a meter.It was a rhetorical question. Obviously, at some stage someone must give them a meter reading. Thus they would know how much water the house is using. And could advise if this usage seemed high - suggesting a leak.

Michael Winstanley ● 1023d

Yes, Andy, bills are on rateable value without a meter, I know.  Michael W asked how would TW be able to charge you for water if you do not have a meter.We live in a house and so do our neighbours, not flats.The difference with the houses opposite is that they have a front garden, hence the main is by their individual front doors.  On our side of the road, where the houses lead straight onto the pavement, the mains are shared between two houses.  I do not know the reason/s why this is so.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1023d

It is based on rateable value without a meter. But once you get the meter iits based on usage.The reason you have to have the meter inside ln a shared system is because there is a shared service e teribv the building.thd meters will be installed at the point the pipework spurs off to individual flats.The  builders of your opposite neighbours properties (houses I assume) installed a single supply to each house hence external metering.

Andy Pike ● 1023d

Michael W,We do not have a water meter at home yet.  It has to be placed inside the house as we share the mains with our nextdoor neighbour.  The houses opposite, however, have a water meter each.  Why the difference?  Who knows!Apparently, the installation of the water meter is almost compulsory but you do have an option of asking that the meter is not activated.As for the bill, it is based on rateable value of the property as it has been for years.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1023d

Well it's a good job you did as that would have run up a hell of a bill by now.

Michael Winstanley ● 1023d

If you have a leaking tap, if you are unable to do it yourself, surely you change the washer, unless its a really fancy tap.  Years ago when I lived upstairs, I could hear the tank in the top of the house, turned out the man on the ground floor was away with his wife, I had to ring the Police and the waterboard. He had a leak under his sink in the kitchen. When they broke in the water was pouring out and running out the back door. This was about 45yrs ago.

Barbara Stevens ● 1023d

Is your water meter in your house? That would be odd. Mine is in the street outside. Wherever it is, Thames Water must be able to read it, else how would they send you a bill? And whilst Philippa's figures on dripping taps do seem to me to be rather suspect, if you have a significant leak, your water usage will be abnormal and Thames should be able to tell you so. Not that I would trust them to do so. If there are leaks downstream of a water meter, they will simply charge for the water which passes through.Upstream of domestic water meters, if there are leaks there will be loss of pressure in the pipe. Thus TW has means to know of these leaks - absent pools of water giving it away.

Michael Winstanley ● 1024d

Philippa obviously unable to answer. Water on the brain.

Barbara Stevens ● 1024d

Philippa,What made you think we would do anything about the leaks??  Goodness gracious me!!!  We are all but fools that need your guidance.  As somebody once said, it would be helpful if you would stop this nonsense!!!!!As you are so incredibly knowledgeable, can you please let me know how TW will know about water leaks on the road instead of a slow dripping tap in my home? The water meter would be in my house, not the mains on the road.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1024d

"A slow dripping tap is losing over 180 litres a day, or 66,000 litres of water over the course of a year"That would be one litre every 8 minutes - not exactly a slow drip.I've checked my water bill and that figure (66,000 litres pa) is about half my anniual usage.So rather than baths, showers, toilet flushes, washing machine, dishwasher etc, it seems all I have is 2 slow dripping taps.But you're right - privatisation was not such a good idea - it was probably based on similar calculations. :)

Michael Winstanley ● 1025d

Here is just one article:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/20/environment-agency-cuts-staff-blow-whistleAt least we have not had to have standpipes in the streets for years in order to reduce water use!Or had the water restriction problems that other countries have had more recently.

Philippa Bond ● 1025d

Water meters are used to help locate leaks.Did anyone do anything about the leaks you mentioned eg make sure that they were logged with Thames Water and chasing to make sure that your local Councillors were on the case chasing up - because sometimes I think people just complain without doing anything about it. A slow dripping tap is losing over 180 litres a day, or 66,000 litres of water over the course of a year.  Householders are of course responsible for making sure that the pipework in their own homes isn't leaking.So you can see why water companies have to prioritise the leaks that are reported when there can be bigger and more complicated leaks.  It is also true that mending one leak in the road can cause another leak further down the same road.  Again and again we find that privatisation was not such a good idea as it did not provide the promised investment in the aging infrastructure.  What seems to keep on happening is that UK companies are asset stripped by overseas companies who are not liable to UK law - and then they need bailing out - and guess who has to do that? Tax-payers.  Water standards have been allowed to slip for years.  When the Environment Agency has its budget severely cut - as happened - then it doesn't have the manpower or ability to keep up all the checks.

Philippa Bond ● 1025d

Oh yes?  Water stressed area?As Matt indicated above, TW lose 630 million litres of water a day!  On our road, there was an enormous water leak for virtually the whole of January 2023 with thousands of litres of water lost, plus another on a side road though not as bad.Let us not start talking about discharging sewage into rivers and seas!The water meters are an excuse - shambolic performance from TW!!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1026d

Charges are going up to pay for the super sewer.

Philippa Bond ● 1026d

Oh, no, don't tell me the waterboard are charging what comes from the heavens, that's not on.

Barbara Stevens ● 1026d

It's water.  Where it comes from and how it is managed.  Since we live in a water stressed area our water company is fitting mandatory water meters.  They also help water companies to locate leaks.  You can see from the graphs how the rainfall has varied from month to month and what the situation is like with regard to the levels in the reservoirs.

Philippa Bond ● 1026d

Philippa, nothing to do with this post. You always change the subject to suit you.

Barbara Stevens ● 1026d

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/about-us/performance/reservoir-levels-and-rainfall-figuresWe've had sudden heavy showers that cause flooding unlike any I've seen for many years. Downpipes on buildings have had to be changed to accommodate greater amounts of water.

Philippa Bond ● 1026d

You can use a drip irrigation system attached to your water butt.  Grass doesn't need watering as it bounces back.  There are all sorts of other systems for pots etc.

Philippa Bond ● 1032d

Will check the price thank you. I have water butt but it not really possible to attach to a timer sprinkler, which saved our garden while we were away. The problem if you want a good looking garden you have to water.

Paul Beer ● 1032d

That's a good link. It suggests a 10% increase in UK rainfall over a 40 year interval. Slight changes over long periods, as with the IPCC's forecasts of increasing global temperature - small numbers of degrees over a century.I do not wish the downplay the serious implications of such change, but people need to learn to distinguish between long term climate trends and random weather events.

Michael Winstanley ● 1032d

@ Paul Beer  You'd better check that they don't just put you on a standard higher charge.  If you can it is worth installing water butts so that you collect an amount of rain water.

Philippa Bond ● 1032d

@ Michael W    That gave us a good laugh.

Philippa Bond ● 1032d

It is ALL about WATER.If there was always plenty and never too much of the precious stuff then there would not be a problem.  When there are water meters it makes it easier for the particular water company (Thames Water in this case) to find the whereabouts the underground water is leaking from.  It is NOT always visible.  You used to see water company workers walking along the streets in the middle of the night listening for leaks.  Sometimes the leak is the water company's  responsibility and sometimes it is the house owner's.  It depends on where it is.They have to prioritise the leaks.  There is a map of where they are working but in the past I have found it was not always up to date.  They work like most businesses doing the work stage by stage which includes (or is supposed to) all the paperwork needed to get permissions on roads and all the equipment and signage and protection ordered and in place.  And workmen too!Vulnerable individuals should make sure they are on a Priority Register with all the utilities they use.

Philippa Bond ● 1032d

Some of us are lucky to have gardens and watering especially last year was important. Said no to a water meter but they still fitted one but not switched on.Also we are just about to have electric smart meter removed which was fitted 7 years ago and go back to the analog meter. Best P

Paul Beer ● 1032d

Philippa this is NOT about rain water, it is about your supply of water leaking, making it look like you are using more water.

Barbara Stevens ● 1032d

But clean or dirty it is still water.  When the weather is dry it is wanted where it can be used and reused and when it is very wet it also needs to be managed to avoid sudden flooding.  Reservoirs can be low when we are not having a heatwave!There are Building Regulations re concreting and paving areas with  impermeable surfacing whether new OR replacement (there ARE alternatives).  Not only does all this hard surfacing cause runoff but it can also cause more heat than wanted (heat sink) when there is no respite from it which is oppressive when not wanted.  I've known buildings to have increased guttering/hoppers/down pipes to be fitted to deal with the greater sudden amounts of rainfall we have been experiencing.We used to be told to have showers instead of baths when water was short but I suspect that long showers under a power shower use almost as much.  There are spray shower heads and tap heads which can reduce the amount you use.

Philippa Bond ● 1032d

And, just to add to Matt's post, carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases have been building up over ma years decades, in fact for over a century, since the beginning of the industrial revolution ...

Michael Ixer ● 1033d

I do agree, not everything can be blamed on climate change, we do live in a country notorious for it's unpredictable weather. But that said...https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/understanding-climate/uk-and-global-extreme-events-heavy-rainfall-and-floodsHotter air can hold more moisture. If the air has an unlimited water supply, such as an ocean, then warmer air draws up extra moisture. This results in clouds containing a greater number of larger rain droplets, and can be why showers in summer are often heavier than in winter. As the climate continues to warm, the effect will increase, and heavy rainfall events are expected to become more common.

Matt Palmer ● 1033d

This is nothing to do with supply leaks. It is about drainage.Supply is expensive - its clean, drinkable, treated water and the water companies are very bad at stopping the supply leaking.Drainage is a different matter - leaks don't really matter. Rainwater does not need to be piped back along the sewers (sewerage does). Preference is for rainwater to be diverted into a soakaway in your garden (if you have one) rather than into the drains. Indeed, to get planning permission for an extension or similar, you need to build a soakaway. This is not much different to a planned leak. A leak of rainwater drainage is a good thing. A leak of sewerage is not.The idea that climate change is causing an excess of rainfall or of heavy cloudburts is somewhat far fetched. It is a gradual effect over many decades, not a sudden change.

Michael Winstanley ● 1033d

I'm told there are often new leaks caused by the changes in pressure when the first leak is mended.  So much of the pipework is old but a worst problem than that is that the old Victorian system that we have (which was wonderful when first put in) nowadays it is better to have a different system - ie  two different lots of pipework - one for sewage and one for rainwater as it is unnecessary to use drinking water for flushing the loo...  and when we have the sudden very heavy cloudbursts that we are now getting with climate change to avoid flooding and to deal with all the extra rain hitting the sewers at the same time action has to be taken so that it does not back up into people's houses.

Philippa Bond ● 1033d

Louise?Thames Water did a similar exercise on our road.  They installed water meters in the houses opposite as they have individual mains.On our side of the road they are shared mains.  A neighbour further up the road did have one installed in her house but asked for it not to be activated.  As far as she knows, it continues to be inactive.When they got to our house, they did not ask to instal a water meter, just said they could not be installed in shared  mains.  Did they run out of meters?  Who knows!!Now they are going to let us know when they are coming and we cannot say no to one being installed at home.  We do have the option of saying we do not wish it to be activated.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1033d

Louise, Just for info: I have a shared main with my next door neighbour. When Thames Water came to access whether I could have a meter, they explained it would need to be fitted in the house rather than in the road because of the shared supply. I decided to go ahead. My neighbour also had them visit and they also explained where they could install it, in her case under the stairs in an existing cupboard. nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1033d

I am really disgusted by this!Water watchdogs push ahead with plan to raid River Thames at Teddingtonhttps://richmond.nub.news/latest-newsletter/eyJpdiI6ImdndHo0TEVhL1gySWZLYzhNc2daWkE9PSIsInZhbHVlIjoiZy93TG9sV2djempSZVpkejMrdEFWQlB3amtDelRxcTZUMFRqSXRxRVNRUkgxcUFnM2RZZUhPdGROREtpYlBOOSIsIm1hYyI6ImZhODIzZWRjYjE2YmU1MjVmMjU1ZmU5NWRhMzllMjhhZTFlOWEwNDUyYWYyODU1MWMwYWU1OWY4NDJjMTYwNjgiLCJ0YWciOiIifQ==?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com

Ivonne Holliday ● 1033d

Ivonne, I agree, why have they allowed so many water main bursts to carry on so long the one in our road right by the bus garage went on for ages and the next road. Yet they want to charge residents more.

Barbara Stevens ● 1033d

Long Thatcher.

Michael Winstanley ● 1033d

I don't have an issue with having a water meter, seems pretty sensible.Does make me laugh though that Thames Water say it's because we live in an area of 'water stress' but neglect to point out they are losing 630 million litres of water a day through leaks.

Matt Palmer ● 1033d

It is interesting that Thames Water is so keen in measuring the amount of water we use but are totally uninterested in the amount of water that is wasted due to leaks on roads....Since November 2022, there have been water leaks on Roehampton Lane with numerous water works and, till March 2023, the leaks had not been repaired in their entirety.Since the beginning of January 2023, there were two major water leaks at the top of our road:  -  the first from the beginning of January and it took 10 days to repair.  -  Two doors up  from this one, there was another leak from 28 January till the end of the second week of February.  The amount of water wasted was astronomical and we even had a jacuzzi in the whole they had dug.-  From 10 February there was a sewage blockage on a side road and it took thre days to repair-  From 15 February, by the Heath, there was another water leak, not as major, which took about a week to repair and they had closed the road.  As you can imagine, the 11.7% increase in water rates were not welcome in the slightest!  When complaining about this and mentioning the water leaks indicated above, amazingly, Thames Water had only record of one water leak but nothing on the others.....  The houses opposite have had smart water meters installed under their Progressive Metering Programme last year as they all have individual mains.On our side of the road, we have shared mains between two houses so smart meters cannot be installed.  They have to be installed inside each house and you have no say on this.  You can, however, tell whoever is installing it that you wish it to be inactive.  Apparently, it does work.Some meters can be connected to the grid and others are operated by batteries.  Who is responsible for their manintenance I do not know.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1033d

The point stands though.

Andy Pike ● 1033d

Andy, the 5 people only 2 was a different house.

Barbara Stevens ● 1033d

So they have a meter and its saying they are using enough water for 5 people when only 2 live there, hence a probable leak. Seems like both thames water and their meter are doing their job.

Andy Pike ● 1033d

Andy, don't want to say anymore at the moment they did have a meter and had been told using too much water and had a leak.

Barbara Stevens ● 1033d

Andy a couple of neighbours, also somebody in Clarendon Drive, my other half is a builder so they talk to him asking advice or having a discussion.

Barbara Stevens ● 1033d

I wonder if the conversation with Barbaras friend was more. Do you realise you could be being charged for using too much water, and that the fitting of a meter could reduce your charges considerably'.Without a meter charges are based on the old rateable value so a large (family)  house with only 2 occupants is probably paying for far more than it is actually using and a meter would save money.

Andy Pike ● 1033d

Thames Water are fitting water meters in Putney. If one lives in a house there is no option.  They install them under the pavement where the external stopcock is so they don't need access; Disraeli Road was converted about a year ago. Flats may not be suitable for conversion, particularly purpose built blocks where there are shared heating systems and cold water tanks.I agree with Andy, without a water meter already installed how would Thames Water know how much water is being used?

Michael Ixer ● 1034d

Without a meter not sure how they would measure water use to be able to say someone is using too much.

Andy Pike ● 1034d

They went to one house said there were 5 people living in the house and there wasn't only 2 and told them they were using too much water. Appear rather pushy.

Barbara Stevens ● 1034d

Yes, my bill has dropped considerably too.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1034d

Same for me!

Caroline Whitehead ● 1034d

Was always dubious about water meters until I had one fitted and my bill dropped 35% or thereabouts.

Andy Pike ● 1034d