Forum Topic

Ambulance Waiting Times

Re: The Story on the Front Page of this Forum about the 2 good Samaritans who drove a lady with a fractured hip to Chelsea & Westminster Hospital in their own car, as the wait for an ambulance was 4 and a half hours: I think this is far too long to wait when you are in pain.  Well done Ross and Matt for coming to the assistance of this lady.
I suffered a fractured collarbone in November, there was no ambulance for me and my son ran up the road to find a neighbour who could get me off the floor and take me to Chelsea & Westminster.  I am so grateful to the wonderful family who helped me. Here’s my suggestion to help ease the ambulance crisis: Anyone who time wastes on ridiculous 999 calls, when others are waiting  in real pain, should be fined several thousand pounds.

Martine Guy ● 1039d35 Comments

*outroar*  cross between outrage and uproar!Age UK has been very useful as they know of lots of charities and other organisations which can help in all different ways eg they found someone to accompany FIL through the hospital when he needed to visit MIL in hospital in between our visits.

Philippa Bond ● 1030d

Years ago now in winter an elderly neighbour (100 years old) of my FIL's was discharged in the middle of the night without any notice to neighbours so there was no heating on in her house or anything else done in preparation for her return.  There was an outroar at the time as because of the lack of hospital transport (ambulances) to take people home this was happening all over the place and lots of patients were being discharged in the middle of night with no notice and no-one at their home to receive, help or look after them.  So many were being discharged with poor mobility and/or with catheters that they suddenly had to manage for themselves that there were bound to be readmissions.I'm sure this can happen with people who are desperate to go home but it is very risky when there is no help set up.Here's a DM article from 2016 about what was happening:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3584007/Frail-elderly-people-sent-home-hospital-soon-pressure-free-beds-report-warns.html(Other articles on the subject are behind paywalls.)Even earlier than that I remember my father being discharged and the hospital was supposed to liaise with the District Nurse (actually about 10 of them) so that he was visited on the first day of his return but the District Nurse didn't know anything about it and a long time was spent trying to get hold of someone.I thought I had an idea of how the system worked when I then had to deal with my in-laws but as they were in another part of the country the system was totally different. :(I'll always maintain that everybody in hospital needs at least one friend (or relation) on the outside to make sure that their best interests are being taken into account and they don't become lost in the system. This can be difficult when there is also the matter of confidentiality that has to be taken into account.And that was before Brexit and so many cuts and changes to services. It can be quite difficult to keep track of friends when they are being moved from hospital to hospital as it always depends on a bed being available just at the right time so moving dates are often changed.  Not so long ago a friend didn't actually know where he was going to be sent to for rehab.  It now seems that if you aren't delivered to a place by a certain time your bed may be sold to someone else!

Philippa Bond ● 1030d

The problem at present is that people are being discharged from hospital before they're ready or care has been arranged. I know of two cases where patients discharged prematurely were rushed back into hospital as emergency cases, and a third where the person had to be continuously on the phone to get an inadequate level of care services after a major operation.

Michael Ixer ● 1030d

Philippa, just one really big problem. Their not in hospital, their still waiting for an ambulance. Why should I be looking at the funding of it, I've paid for years not sat on my backside on the dole, I don't get paid to do their job for them. Instead of arguing on here, why not write a great big long letter to the Government. You seem to think you know it all. Instead of exhausting us, were still waiting for an Ambulance.

Barbara Stevens ● 1030d

I'm not aware that karma gives you any desserts.  They tend not to be good for you anyway and usually look better than they taste.You should be looking at the funding (or lack of it) of the NHS and of social care.  There are a lot of people unable to leave hospital because there aren't enough rehab hospitals for them to go to with physio and not enough staff.  Then there are also not enough carers because a lot went home with Brexit.Ambulances are lined up outside hospitals unable to discharge their patients because there are not enough empty beds and staffing in the hospitals.Ambulances have a lot more equipment in them nowadays so that they can care for their patients at home, en route and sitting outside hospitals waiting for attention and admission.  They aren't just vans with drivers anymore either. Which if you had read my post you would have learnt more about.  And gardens and views out of hospital are a part of mental wellbeing and reduce patients length of stay in hospital. https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/staff-shortages-in-the-nhs-and-social-care-sectors/#:~:text=Several%20commentators%20have%20attributed%20staff,due%20to%20increasing%20staff%20shortages.

Philippa Bond ● 1031d

If she had posted on here about her hoax call I would have criticised her.

Andy Pike ● 1031d

I wish.

Andy Pike ● 1031d

Martine mentioned nothing about a heart attack or any other of the extremes you always defer to. She had a bad arm.

Andy Pike ● 1031d

Andy, I know you like to be sarcastic and argue, but some of your replies, I'm more likely to think your on wacky Backy or some strong medication, dulling your brain.

Barbara Stevens ● 1031d

Andy, says he can’t believe anyone could call an ambulance for a bad arm, fracture only confirmed after x-ray.  No Andy, I could see immediately it was a broken wrist and so could the ambulance crew.  Don’t belittle my injury for which I made this first 999 call for myself.  Many of these type of injuries are suffered by women, as osteoporosis starts to strike.  
Criticise instead the people who make hoax calls, such as a woman in the E.Midlands who rang 999 for an ambulance 200 times in 2 weeks because she was bored.  She was fined £165.  I wish I could find the figures for London.

Martine Guy ● 1031d

You are being an idiot Andy, stress from having an accident can bring on hyperventilating or stroke or heart attack. My cousin fell down the escalator in John Lewis in Kingston about 2 years ago, she came up to visit friends as lived in Somerset. They don't know if she was having a stroke or a heart attack took her to St.Georges she thinks. Well she nearly lost her leg it had such a bad effect. After weeks of nurses going to her at home she had another stroke and died. I was brought up in Barnes with that cousin so I was really upset, even though she was older than me.

Barbara Stevens ● 1031d

Good luck to that person, I don’t begrudge them the ambulance, as they have a genuine injury.  What you should be worried about is the fact there weren’t any ambulances at all.  I have rung 999 to call an ambulance for others in the past and they have arrived very quickly, this time there was nothing.  
You criticise me for making that first time 999 phone call for myself, when I was in a really stressful situation and in real pain, yet you say nothing about the time wasters.  What an undeserving person I am in your eyes.

Martine Guy ● 1031d

But maybe, just maybe the one that should have come to you this time was busy with someone else with a fractured arm.

Andy Pike ● 1031d

Michael, I don’t care what you accept or not, nor do I want lectures from you.  Until 13 years ago I had reached well into middle age without the need to call an ambulance for myself.  I slipped on steps whilst with my new born baby in a pram. My wrist broke and I was in pain. I called an ambulance because I was worried about caring for my children and the whole situation that I suddenly found myself in with a fracture and getting treatment. The ambulance arrived almost immediately, far quicker than a taxi, and it was decided that my kind neighbour would care for the children until my husband could get back asap from work.  
Fast forward to November 2022, I needed to call an ambulance for myself for a second time in my life, no ambulance was available. It is the real time wasters you should be criticising, not people like me with genuine injuries who hardly ever use the emergency services.

Martine Guy ● 1031d

Yes, but if you are in stress, you could start hyperventilating or have a heart attack or a stroke. Not everything is that easy. Depends how hard you hit yourself you could be going in and out of consciousness.

Barbara Stevens ● 1031d

"All I wanted was to get to hospital and home asap."A cab would have been faster.I can accept that in the circumstances you describe you may not have been thinking straight. However, the quickest way to hospital is for someone to drive you or in a minicab. An ambulance is no advantage to you if you have a fracture. Ambulances are the solution if you are bleeding badly, have a stroke or heart attack, need resus on route, need to be immobilised due to a spinal injury or something of that nature. By calling an anbulance when  you have broken a bone (unless your femur is protruding from your flesh!) you are delaying your own journey to hospital and depriving urgent cases of the resource.

Michael Winstanley ● 1031d

The young lady upstairs a month ago, had been cleaning the stairs, we didn't hear her scream, she fell down the stairs and her hoover followed her. She managed to call a friend, I opened the door, I said she had just been cleaning the stairs. Anyway, her arm twisted the wrong way round, had to have an operation, ligaments and tendons torn. So do you think, being in so much pain she shouldn't have called an Ambulance.

Barbara Stevens ● 1031d

Good for you Michael.  But it depends on the injury and the circumstances.  A few weeks ago, I suffered another fall and fractured the same wrist again.  I felt a bit of pain but it was bearable and I couldn’t see the bones out of place, I thought and hoped it was a bad sprain.  I walked home with my husband and he took me to A&E by car, where I found out it was a break.  The experience was nothing compared to breaking my collarbone, when my neighbour drove me to hospital and going over every bump in the road hurt. As regards the first break, I had just come out of hospital after a month on the maternity ward.  I could see immediately it was a bad break and there was no way I could have travelled in the bus or a taxi.  My neighbours looked after my children.  All I wanted was to get to hospital and home asap.  You and Andy have no idea really what I went through, save your suggestions and criticisms for the real time wasters.

Martine Guy ● 1031d

Yes I couldnt believe anyone would call an ambulance for a bad arm ( fracture only confirmed after xray).Yes I have had a number of fractures and each time got myself to the hospital.

Andy Pike ● 1031d

A few years back I fell off a ladder at home and fractured a couple of toes. I was in agony, but this was not from the fractures, but another one which I had dislocated.I would not have dreamed of calling an ambulance. I was conscious and alert and not bleeding to death. More importantly, the quickest way to the hospital was going to be by taxi, since there are many around and one will come right away, whereas an ambulance is a scarce and specialised vehicle.So I went to A&E in a minicab. It cost me about £15. Now you can argue that some people will find that a lot of money, but for goodness sake, in an emergency, who cannot find £15?A lot of the problem with the NHS is people demanding stuff for free because it is their right, rather than practicising a little self sufficiency. Frankly I'd have been embarasssed  riding in an ambulance with a minor fracture.I've fractured my wrist once too. I skiied back to the village and caught a bus to the nearest doctor's office. No ambulance then either. I had insurance and could have called for a snowmobile - but I thought (a) that would just take longer and (b) it would have been taking the piss.The presence of small children does rather complicate matters but I can't see how an ambulance helps - did the kids ride with you? Is taking them with you to A&E in their best interests? Surely the best course of action was to take some painkillers, find someone to look after the kids then get yourself to the hospital - by bus if need be but don't tell me you couldn't afford  a minicab.

Michael Winstanley ● 1031d

If we wait long enough we won't be looking at any fing picture. You think of looking at a bigger picture while waiting 5 hrs for an ambulance, you won't be looking at any picture. Mind Philippa, Karma doesn't give you your just desserts.

Barbara Stevens ● 1031d

Sorry, what are you saying, Andy, that fractured wrists aren’t worthy of an ambulance?  That I should have walked down the road in pain and waited for the 14 bus.  I had a new born baby and my 4 year old son to care for too.  Have you ever suffered a fracture?  I am stunned by you querying this as though I was some time waster?

Martine Guy ● 1031d

Ambulance for a fractured wrist ??

Andy Pike ● 1031d

Shame you don't read things properly Barbara.  Try looking at a bigger picture.

Philippa Bond ● 1031d

Ambulance waiting times, going off the subject again. Very nice in a garden, not much good laying on a pavement waiting to be seen,or under a bus in agony.

Barbara Stevens ● 1031d

Yeah, they definitely cheer one up.

Michael Winstanley ● 1031d

And why not - they improve wellbeing - and that is why they have them in places where people are ill.  You should try enjoying them sometime.

Philippa Bond ● 1031d

Gardens again Philippa, I bet  they have tits in your garden.

Barbara Stevens ● 1034d

I was horrified at the amount of fundraising that Friends of Hospitals do for equipment for hospitals - never mind things that are good for wellbeing like the gardens which help you to get better faster.I was reading this earlier which was interesting and shows how complicated some of these ambulance trips are. (I was already aware that they had a lot of equipment because of the amount of time it takes just to get to hospital A&E.)https://www.imperial.nhs.uk/about-us/news/london-wide-specialist-ambulance-service-for-critically-ill-patientsSeriously complicated transfers!

Philippa Bond ● 1034d

An opportunity was missed when they closed police & fire stations. Having staff based locally would have helped. Of course you still have to take them to A&E so traffic etc matters.Also bridge voyeurs may seem harmless but the reality is that emergency services are hampered by the limited river crossings and the ones that work aren't great.I spent quite a while at A&E over the last year with my youngest. When called in the early hours, an ambulance attended within minutes and the care and professionalism was excellent. It was my first experience with the ambulance service. We always made our own way to A&E for broken bones and things and even used Uber once.There have been improvements. There are now separate children's A&E departments which makes a huge difference. Of course services are stretched and there may be a long wait but you are triaged pretty quickly.Unfortunately until retention of staff is addressed then things will only get worse. Perhaps if we had some serious politicians that addressed the real issues?

Ed Robinson ● 1039d

Can you imagine, if the 2 Samaritans hadn’t come to the aid of the lady who fractured her hip in Lacy Rd, Then she would have been lying in agony in the street for four and a half hours.  As the time passed, I guess she would have been crying out in pain.  

Martine Guy ● 1039d

Totally!!!Sometimes, and this is one of them, that I do believe we should learn from the French!!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1039d

Yes, I agree, Matt. There needs to be more outrage, but until you need an ambulance, I don’t think people realise how much things have deteriorated.  About 13 years ago I fractured my wrist, when I rang 999 the ambulance seemed to instantly appear.  Now you are lucky to get an ambulance turn up.  And this is London where we have several first class hospitals on our doorstep, imagine what it’s like in rural areas. Because I didn’t go to Chelsea & Westminster by ambulance, I had what seemed to me a long wait for anyone to give me painkillers.  Everyone else in the waiting room, didn’t seem to be in pain and people were coming up to me and sympathising and wishing me well.  If you go to A&E by ambulance you get priority.

Martine Guy ● 1039d

I dont disagree with the frivolous calls statement.However it's a bit sad that 'grim acceptance' seems to have become the norm about the catastrophic state of the NHS emergency service. Shouldnt there be more outrage?

Matt Palmer ● 1039d

I’d like to add that older people, in particular, should think of a neighbour who they can call on if  they suffer a fall at home, as it is likely that no ambulance will be available to take them to A&E. re: the lady who fractured her hip in Lacy Rd, it must have been incredibly painful for her to get off the ground and then be moved to the car of the 2 men that came to her aid.  That’s another reason you need an ambulance, as you have a crew who are experienced in getting someone off the ground and moving them to a vehicle.  When you get to a hospital, I think that if you arrive by ambulance, you will be seen quicker in A&E than someone not brought in by ambulance. I think issuing fines to people who call 999 for ridiculous, non emergency reasons, is a vote winner.

Martine Guy ● 1039d