Forum Topic

Billions!?

"Writing in the Daily Mail, Ms Braverman said: "In the face of today's global migration crisis, yesterday's laws are simply not fit for purpose."There are 100 million people displaced around the world, and likely billions more eager to come here if possible."Billions. This is a Home Secretary, a top government minister. Are they supposed to try to inflame an already very difficult situation?

David Ainsworth ● 830d31 Comments

"Do you think this would happen in the UK?"No. I guess that the ULEZ expansion could be a poll tax moment but I think recent incidents show that the UK citizens are more concerned with social injustice rather than financial ones. Policing issues, anti-war protests, BLM etc but I'm no expert so happy to be corrected.The video interview is interesting but it does not ask or answer the real questions that matter to most people and some of it is a bit bizarre.I may be a bit biased as I believe societies with low crime are better placed to take advantage of green measures be it in housing or transport. XR etc seem to believe the opposite.

Ed Robinson ● 818d

Well, I am not surprised!Just look at France.  They people do not like something and they are demonstrating fiercely.Do you think this would happen in the UK?I have seen riots, unfortunately, but not demonstrations similar to those in France. 

Ivonne Holliday ● 818d

Interesting or perhaps not - founder of XR, Insulate Britain any many other organisations that are not related, appears to agree the 100m figure."Billions Will Die If They Don't Listen To Us | Aaron Bastani meets Roger Hallam"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvXti_b68boOddly enough the inability to mobilise ordinary people is not discussed. I wonder why?

Ed Robinson ● 818d

The premise of the prior question was largely wrong.I don't watch much of the BBC's current affairs output any more due to its RIGHT wing bias. For years BBC's Question Time hosted Nigel farage on multiple occasions. Without their support he might have remained a quirky nonentity. They have built up the reputations of right-wingers like Andrew Neil and sycophants to the party in power like Andrew Marr and Laura Kuensberg. By all means defund its UK news coverage -it is quite poor.On the other hand there is much that I still do use - the BBC website, the weather, Radio 4, Dr Who (::))).More practically, even the nasty party (the one in government) has accepted that the BBC is here with us to stay so put away your pipe-dream lads. Get back to privatising the NHS or closing libraries, or something else more feasible.

Michael Winstanley ● 827d

A question for Mr LambertWhy do royalist luvvies think the whole country should contribute towards the cost of the Royal Family, considering many people don't want it anymore due to its anti-democratic bias.Surely a subscription service is the only fair way to do this.---------------------A question for Mr LambertWhy do war luvvies think the whole country should contribute towards the cost of our nuclear weapons, considering many people don't want them anymore due to their genocidal results.Surely a subscription service is the only fair way to do this.

David Ainsworth ● 827d

Thank you Sue.A question for David. Why do BBC luvvies think the whole country should contribute towards the BBC licence fee, considering many people don't watch it anymore due to it's left wing bias.Surely a subscription service is the only fair way to do this.

John Lambert ● 827d

Sorry, I do not read every post slavishly - the typical post on this site is of such low quality that it would be a waste of time. I have done you the courtesy of scrolling back and looking for the question. It seems in fact there were several:"Do you believe in a completely open border policy whereby there is no restriction on the number who can enter the country nor their means of entry ?If you do not how do you think immigration should be managed and who should qualify for admittance ?If you do could you make a guess at what it would mean in terms of taxation to provide them the full range of social services we benefit from ?"Well look - I am not at your command to sit your little written examinations - but briefly:(a) Open borders - no I do not believe in totally open borders, I would just like those who get here and apply for asylum to be processed by the courts in a fair and timely manner and those who genuinely qualify to be treated as such, in a manner consistent with international law.(b) No I don't think immigration should be "managed". Immigration is a thing people choose to do, like getting married, having children, moving house. None of this should be "managed". People should be free to make their own decisions. Having said that, there are already some reasonably sensible rules as regards who's allowed to immigrate here - those with useful skills, those of independent means, those with families here, THOSE SEEKING ASYLUM UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW. (c) Taxes. The number of asylum seekers is tiny compared to legal immigrants. Annually, it's in the tens of thousands whereas total immigration is in the hundreds. They are on average young and by the time they get here have already passed through a fairly arduous Darwinian filter. Let them work and pay tax. In terms of taxation I calculate it would make very little difference to the country as a whole, but on balance, they would make a net positive fiscal contribution, compared to cooping them for years unable to work or spending a fortune to resettle them in Rwanda.

Michael Winstanley ● 827d

"Perhaps he's in a different time zone to you or just busy, Mr Hawkes"Agreed. I suspect that Mr Hawkes lives in the 1950s. "Nothing has changed since I began.My eye has permitted no change.I am going to keep things like this."

David Ainsworth ● 827d

Perhaps he's in a different time zone to you or just busy, Mr Hawkes. Of course - and I know this is the wrong thread - an advantage of public transport is one can skim these posts while in transit. Can't do that when in a car, stuck in a traffic jam :-)

Michael Ixer ● 827d

Mr WinstanleyStill waiting for your answer.

John Hawkes ● 827d

Good chap on Question Time:-https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bbc-time-audience-member-absolutely-220128700.html"As Jenrick listened on, the audience member added: “It’s actually not about whether it’s going to work or not, because as stupid as Suella Braverman does sound when she uses words like ‘blob’ or ‘wokerati’ or whatever nonsense she wants to spout, that’s not what they’re trying to do.“This isn’t even about the actual scheme itself. They’re forecasting to the next election. They can’t run on their governing record, there’s sewage in the rivers, inflation is through the roof, living standards are beyond the floor.“They can’t run on individuals or personalities. They have ex-chancellors who don’t pay tax. They have another ex-chancellor who knew the currency was going to run, so he told his former employers to bet against it.“So what do they have left? What they have left is division and this is all this policy is about. They are trying to sow division by casting it as us, the people in Britain, against people who want to come here. And it’s really sad.“I have faith that people are not are not going to buy it ... this also just fundamentally betrays that the conservatives don’t think the way that we do because we think compassionately.”"

David Ainsworth ● 827d

GCE A-Level and Google.For me those lines (and the poem) are partly about the illusion of control.

David Ainsworth ● 827d

Mr AinsworthVery impressed with your poetry knowledge or was it Wikipedia ?!I am sure Hughes was trying to convey a message that this snippet does not do justice to.But on the face of it I agree with these words.Now you will tell me that Hughes was actually in favour of the country being changed however subtly by unmanaged immigration and was being ironical.

John Hawkes ● 827d

"a British citizen who is proud to live in the UK and wishes it be governed in such a manner as to keep it as it is.""The sun is behind me.Nothing has changed since I began.My eye has permitted no change.I am going to keep things like this."From "Hawk roosting" by Ted Hughes.

David Ainsworth ● 827d

Mr WinstanleyDo you believe in a completely open border policy whereby there is no restriction on the number who can enter the country nor their means of entry ?If you do not how do you think immigration should be managed and who should qualify for admittance ?If you do could you make a guess at what it would mean in terms of taxation to provide them the full range of social services we benefit from ?Yours, not a little Englander but a British citizen who is proud to live in the UK and wishes it be governed in such a manner as to keep it as it is.Unlike you if your diatribes on issues such as this are indicative of what you really believe.

John Hawkes ● 827d

We know that journalists can follow the trail of those aiding and abetting those who are making big money offering boat trips to desperate people to cross the channel.  So why do we not already have agreements with the countries these enablers come from and also stop the sources where the boats are bought and brought from?

Philippa Bond ● 827d

But why would you want to change that. Why is it that the libertarian, cut red tape, reduce the statute book, small state, small government crows are forever trying to limit the freedom of the individual but only where it suits them.The general principle (and one which I support) is that people are free to do what they like without putting others at risk. Enablers of dangerous activity are criminalised and public education programs make it clear what the risks are of dangerous activity. Individuals take their choice.Thus suicide is not a crime. Assisting it definitely is. Cycling without a helmet is legal. Most of us tell anyone that will listen to wear one.How much money is spent by the UK government explaining to migrants in France what their chances of death are in crossing the channel illegally? You'd expect to see a few posters on the beach, surely? Ever seen a picture of one? The migrants cruise the hypermarket car parks in Calais looking for unlocked cars. NO posters there either. Quite possibly more effective than "In a year or so's time, if we can ever get this through parliament and then override your human rights in the courts, a couple of hundred of you might at great expense be sent to Rwanda". But maybe not gaining so many votes back off Reform on the hang them and flog them  little Englander don't so much like foreigners right fringe of the Tory Party franchise.

Michael Winstanley ● 828d

"There's nothing illegal about risking your life to cross the channel.  How do you change that?"We can't. And with climate change it will grow as a problem. Of course, with climate change it may become possible to walk across. Or skate.

David Ainsworth ● 828d

There's nothing illegal about risking your life to cross the channel.  How do you change that?

Philippa Bond ● 828d

"The traffickers should be targetted."It certainly does seem surprising that the networks are so difficult to perhaps infiltrate and destroy one way or another. There are continually new people coming through so a new person might not stand out particularly. There are also communications networks which can surely be found and read.Perhaps the problem is collaboration between different services and between different nations. Maybe there are victories of which we do not hear, of course, as their methods of success may still be useful.

David Ainsworth ● 829d

I totally agree, Michael. The traffickers should be targetted.  With all the intelligence that is available to governments, I fail to see how they can say they cannot find them.  I assume it is much easier to target the victims....  Horrible, but true.

Ivonne Holliday ● 829d

What I fail to understand is why, rather than targeting the victims of the trafficking criminals, they aren't going after the trafficking criminals themselves. Aside from the fact that it would get rid of the problem these criminals would get the punishment they deserve - hopefully a decade or two in jail! I can't believe these criminals are that difficult to hunt down - they can't have the resources the Russians, Chinese, yes have and our intelligence services seen to acquire quite good information on them.

Michael Ixer ● 829d

Aren't you forgetting "Lefty lawyers"?

David Ainsworth ● 829d

David, sadly that is the case.I think Ms Braverman should have been at Dr Hannah Fry's presentation at the ExCel Tech Show today about the "Joy of Data"; whatever the accuracy of her data or where she found them I think Ms Braverman is guilty of drawing conclusions from the raw data without the information, knowledge or, dare one say, wisdom to do that

Michael Ixer ● 830d

The left and the woke celebs have got blood on their hands. What will it take for them to agree that criminals should be deported?https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11811979/Parents-man-murdered-Jamaican-criminal-slam-celebs-spoke-help-block-deportation.html

John Lambert ● 830d

It's predicted the world's population will top 8 billion this year, so a large proportion must have a lower living standard than the UK. Also this is of concern, should the UK quit the ECHR it could nullify our trade agreement with the EU ...https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/08/eu-could-terminate-police-and-security-agreement-if-uk-quits-echr#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16782983482818&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fuk-news%2F2023%2Fmar%2F08%2Feu-could-terminate-police-and-security-agreement-if-uk-quits-echrAnd I was worried while sitting through a presentation today on the government's proposals for data protection that we might lose equivalence for data processing! (Difficult to say as some proposals are very vague and they've just changed them today! (The lawyer giving the presentation agreed with me the government probably doesn't understand what they're doing!)

Michael Ixer ● 830d

"That's surely why overseas aid is more important as a fix to the real problems. Plus not starting proxy wars, etc ...""not starting proxy wars"That horse has flown off on the stable door aeons ago.

David Ainsworth ● 830d

So, if I'm reading that correctly her 100 million figure corresponds to the one in the World Bank link? I assume the "billions" figure was plucked out of thin air? Now, there may be billions of people around the world who would like a European or North American standard of living but perhaps, if possible, they'd prefer not to travel? That's surely why overseas aid is more important as a fix to the real problems. Plus not starting proxy wars, etc ...

Michael Ixer ● 830d

The number of displaced people is shocking with neighbouring countries absorbing most.Perhaps the conversation should be how we help those that are displaced and prevent more from becoming displaced in the future.But yes her maths is bad too."Globally, there are more than 100 million forcibly displaced people including refugees, internally displaced persons and asylum seekers who have fled their homes to escape violence, conflict and persecution."https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/forced-displacement

Ed Robinson ● 830d

"There are 100 million people displaced around the world, and likely billions more eager to come here if possible."Is Cruella having delusions of grandeur?

Ivonne Holliday ● 830d

Something I didn’t know until now. She’s named after Sue-Ellen from Dallas. Her teachers in primary school abbreviated it and removed the hyphen. 😶

Freddie Francis ● 830d