Forum Topic

New report on the effectiveness of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods

Very good to see the report on Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs), commissioned by the climate action group Posible and carried out for them by Active Travel Academy  at Westminster University. Key findings were:     • There was an average traffic reduction within LTNs of a fraction under 50%;    • Contrary to the usual complaint about LTNs, there was little indication that this traffic was simply displaced onto boundary roads;    • Nevertheless, boundary roads are highly likely to still be polluted, unsafe, or difficult to cross, so it’s vital for local authorities to consider other measures.This is excellent news, and hopefully the (relatively) new Wandsworth administration will adopt a braver approach than the craven Conservative one had done, which scuttled away at the first breath of opposition from the motoring lobby..

Richard Carter ● 1110d38 Comments

No, the burning of fossil fuels and pollution is linked to the greater heat which in turn is linked to extremes in weather conditions - the storms are greater and the rainfall heavier... and then there is flooding...https://www.imperial.ac.uk/grantham/publications/climate-change-faqs/

Philippa Bond ● 1102d

Re : Fairbourne, Wales,  it also has a river next to it, which makes it especially vulnerable to flooding, not just rising sea levels. When it was announced it was likely to be underwater in a few years time, property prices dropped, but I read people are buying up homes in the town again.  I am mystified at the market for seaside homes vulnerable to rising sea levels.   Lovely Whitstable on the North Kent coast is another place likely to be flooded if sea levels rise, but house prices are high, especially on the sea front. This thread has gone off the original topic, but I was replying to Philippa.

Martine Guy ● 1102d

Life has changed and keeps on changing.  The Chancellor of the Exchequer is busy complaining that so many over 40s are not in productive employment ie paying taxes to make up for all those lost with a workforce that left or retired early. The state retirement age is now 66 and will soon reach 67.  I wonder how many are looking not only after their grandchildren but also their parents?  The sandwich generation.  That has become a much more complicated and expensive job with the fragmentation and running down of the NHS and other state institutions.This summer we've had the hottest weather in the UK ever recorded.  There are rising sea levels - there are countries whose land is becoming impossible to grow food on because of the greater storms contaminating their sweet water with salt water and also making it impossible to grow food.  So as their countries become impossible to live on - they have to move - to different countries which will accept them. It won't just be other countries this happens to - it is already happening to us too.  Fairbourne is just one.

Philippa Bond ● 1102d

Perhaps some people should worry more about their children and grandchildren. Half of the children don't know if they are girls boys or what. Perhaps more time with them might help, discussing their problems instead of them worrying alone.

Barbara Stevens ● 1102d

Everything happening now was happening years ago as well.

Barbara Stevens ● 1102d

It's one world and we're all suffering as a result of the climate emergency already.  Melting glaciers, more floods, more droughts, greater extremes in temperatures than ever before...  It causes displacement of people and also cause wars.Unfortunately despite evidence and scientists telling us over 30 years ago there has been a determined element of society denying it and trying to hide and shut down discussion.

Philippa Bond ● 1102d

There are plenty of people around the planet already suffering Barbara, should we just ignore their plight?If we continue to allow the situation to deteriorate then their plight will eventually become our own. You and I might not be around for the worst of it but my son and your grandchildren will.

Matt Palmer ● 1102d

All you who keeping worrying about the climate emergency will probably drop dead before then, worrying about it.

Barbara Stevens ● 1102d

No idea i'm afraid, I just cut and pasted from herehttps://www.lbhf.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/clean-air-neighbourhoods/south-fulham-clean-air-neighbourhood-project/south-fulham-clean-air-neighbourhood-frequently-asked-questions

Matt Palmer ● 1102d

exactly.

Matt Palmer ● 1102d

Once again, complaints about traffic limitation measures. It's almost as if there were no pollution issue at all! Let's hear, instead, your suggestions about how to deal with the climate emergency and the terrible pollution. There’s even a convenient thread on which to do this: “The pollution crisis and the climate emergency: how should they be acted on? “

Richard Carter ● 1102d

Matt, so that presumably means residents can book free access for  lun and rental cars (Zipcar, etc)?

Michael Ixer ● 1102d

It's almost as if you copied and pasted that Matt.https://cleansw6.com/"we expect ride-hailing firms like Uber and Bolt to update their satnav systems accordingly"Sorry but that does not turn someone's experience into a myth. Fact!

Ed Robinson ● 1102d

"- ladies having to walk the last 500 yards at night because cabs refuse to enter the LTNs even the right way"Sadly safety is only mentioned in terms of road traffic accidents by many.Safety with regard to transport means someone getting from A to B without harm. Public transport must be made safer for all. That's not going to happen with the current policing structure and the mayor has no plans to change it (nor does any other political party).I should add that the times when I have been purposely endangered whilst cycling have all been in 20mph zones with no traffic.You can not have a green transport policy without effective police enforcement.

Ed Robinson ● 1102d

Myth: Taxis will refuse to drop off in the neighbourhood, which is a safety concern my familyTaxis can reach every single street and home without going through cameras. They just need to enter and leave the area via Wandsworth Bridge Road, or enter and leave via New Kings Road.  There is no material difference in time or length on these routes and we expect ride-hailing firms like Uber and Bolt to update their satnav systems accordingly.  Black cabs are exempt, as are local taxi firms who have registered with the council, supporting local business.Myth: Traders, delivery drivers and couriers will be reluctant to access our homes because of the threat of a ticketExperience from the eastern Clean Air Neighbourhood trial shows that delivery companies and couriers quickly adjust their routes and adapt without a problem. They will be able to reach every single street and home without going through cameras. They just need to enter and leave the area via Wandsworth Bridge Road, or enter and leave via New Kings Road.  If for any reason visitors do drive through the cameras, you can book them free access through the cameras up to midnight on the day they visit, even after they’ve left you.

Matt Palmer ● 1102d

From every person living in LTNs or trying to drive around them in Fulham, this is simply a disaster.- ladies having to walk the last 500 yards at night because cabs refuse to enter the LTNs even the right way- same for deliveries, a number of couriers just refuse to enter the LTNs- same number of vehicles overall packed on the main roads, more congestion, more pollution- signs not very obvious to spot- money making scheme/scamH&F is putting the burden of the Hammersmith Bridge debacle on Putney by forcing traffic to Putney Bridge.

Marc Blanchard ● 1102d

Richard, the images probably need to be resized down from that which modern digital cameras produce. However, as there's no guidance on postings to the new site who knows what the optimum size for posting is! That's why I use links to my Flickr site for posting images, although viewing them isn't entirely seemless on the old SW15 site. (Coincidentally I was just having a conversation with a friend about how tiresome she finds it downsizing images so they fit on her vegan website…)

Michael Ixer ● 1106d

We briefly had an LTN on Dover House Road - it was a disaster. All it did was divert traffic that could previously drive in a straight line between URR and Putney Heath around a couple of blocks of residential housing just to get back to DHR. And we, as council tax payers, had to bear the cost of consultation, glossy leaflets and signage that was put up and then removed.

Roy Robart ● 1106d

Thank you for posting that, Michael: I don't know why the pictures I post come out so large: is it me, or something to do with the way the site handles them?

Richard Carter ● 1106d

No mention anywhere on impact of short distant car use or increase use by other H&F residence.It will however undoubtedly reduce overall vehicles in that particular area. How that will impact air quality overall I think is less certain. If you look at WBC - similar schemes could be set up. Clarence Lane/Priory Lane for example if non WBC vehicles could only enter & exit through Clarence Lane and not Priory Lane. Most of the traffic is probably outside WBC.The same principles could be applied across WBC and indeed all other local authorities. Effectively making through traffic stick to main routes. Except of course for residents of those borough that can would be able to rat run with impunity!

Ed Robinson ● 1106d

Presumsbly this is enforced by number plate recognition cameras. Therefore it's the car that needs an H F address not the driver. No use for zip cars and the like or small out of borough businesses that use cars to get around.Presumably someone like pimlico plumbers just needs an address in the borough to register part of its fleet as resident to get round this.

Andy Pike ● 1106d

This is a good article about ithttps://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/south-fulham-drivers-shortcuts-fines-clean-air-neighbourhood-trial-b1054968.html"The trial scheme was so successful, with 8,000 fewer cars entering the area, that the council agreed to expand it to the western side of the road, covering all of south Fulham, on December 1.""“We do not want to fine motorists. We want to reduce pollution and congestion,” the council said.“That is why we ran an extended two-month warning period from 1 December during which out-of-borough drivers got a warning notice and a letter explaining the clean air trial – not a fine."

Matt Palmer ● 1106d

"Medfield Street?"If only WBC residents were allowed to enter: Medfield St, Clarence Lane, Charfield Avenue etc - any side road that is not a main route then using H&F logic it would reduce traffic.

Ed Robinson ● 1106d

Perhaps a good solution for Medfield Street?What do you mean?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1106d

Thanks Michael,It looks like a perfectly clear sign apart from the inclusion of some silly logo that is unnecessary and will divert the drivers attention away from the important bit.The except is the odd clause here - again with an unclear bit on the end. Looking at the original photo (from Mars) it has 'h&f' followed by the silly logo - a kite perhaps?The real question is what does the except bit mean?According to H&F website:"All H&F residents can still drive freely everywhere"This is actually bad as we want to reduce short car journeys. It will some through trafficWill other local authorities follow? Why not Wandsworth? After all we will only be fining people outside Wandsworth so that will make it OK won't it??Perhaps a good solution for Medfield Street?I would suggest Bill contest it on the grounds he is a kite flyer :) https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/clean-air-neighbourhoods/south-fulham-clean-air-neighbourhood-project

Ed Robinson ● 1107d

And the link! https://flic.kr/p/2od43pA

Michael Ixer ● 1107d

I've put it on my Flickr site for you Richard - I thought if it was posted any more times it might break the SW15 site; well, more than it is already!(Bill's post is inaccessible - the link seems to refer to a file on his PC and I doubt he wants to share his local drive with us all.)I do have a question re LTNs. Does that mean residents can't use Zipcars - Roundtrip or Flex? That would seem a retrograde step if we're trying to discourage car ownership.

Michael Ixer ● 1107d

In the light of Ed Robinson's characteristic cavilling, I thought I'd go to see the actual H&F signage, and here's the result (this pair is at the junction of Hurlingham Road and Edenhurst Avenue). The message looks pretty clear to me, especially with those large red circles (a bit of a giveaway, they are) and anyone who, like Bill Christie, is happy to breeze past at 20 mph without noticing any problem, is either visually limited or not looking where they are going properly. Either way, they ought really to be thinking seriously about whether they should be in control of two tons (or more) of metal, and a fine for ignoring such obvious signs seems entirely appropriate.

Richard Carter ● 1107d

This site is bizarre: I've posted a message twice, but although it appears (in duplicate!) on the new.putneysw15.com site, on the old one there are blanks. Maybe my photo was too big for the site to handle? I've made it smaller (it's only 2meg now) so I'll have one more go.

Richard Carter ● 1107d

Not sure what happened with that pist,  it looks fine in the New.putneysw15.com site, but ill try again.I’m not sure what the image is, Bill, but I can't open it.However, in the light of Ed Robinson's characteristic cavilling, I thought I'd go to see the actual H&F signage, and here's the result (this pair is at the junction of Hurlingham Road and Edenhurst Avenue). The message looks pretty clear to me, especially with those large red circles (a bit of a giveaway, they are) and anyone who, like Bill Christie, is happy to breeze past at 20 mph without noticing any problem, is either visually limited or not looking where they are going properly. Either way, they ought really to be thinking seriously about whether they should be in control of two tons (or more) of metal, and a fine for ignoring such obvious signs seems entirely appropriate.

Richard Carter ● 1107d

I’m not sure what the image is, Bill, but I can't open it.However, in the light of Ed Robinson's characteristic cavilling, I thought I'd go to see the actual H&F signage, and here's the result (this pair is at the junction of Hurlingham Road and Edenhurst Avenue). The message looks pretty clear to me, especially with those large red circles (a bit of a giveaway, they are) and anyone who, like Bill Christie, is happy to breeze past at 20 mph without noticing any problem, is either visually limited or not looking where they are going properly. Either way, they ought really to be thinking seriously about whether they should be in control of two tons (or more) of metal, and a fine for ignoring such obvious signs seems entirely appropriate.

Richard Carter ● 1107d

Bill??? That looks like a local file on a Windows PC?

Michael Ixer ● 1107d

/Users/williamchristie/Desktop/Screenshot 2023-01-23 at 14.35.51.jpg

Bill Christie ● 1107d

The signs posted above appear to be taken from this web.Difficult to give a complete opinion without seeing a picture of what is in front of the signs.However the first picture is a bad example if it is to be taken as the only warning as sign is way too small.The second picture is a better example but the post appears not to be supported properly and is leaning which is a concern.These type of signs tend to be used on smaller residential roads and not at junctions which is the main issue.I do worry about objects that are not illuminated being placed in the middle of the road especially when street lighting is out or not near. I be happier if both sides had reflective strips and a bit of white paint wouldn't go amiss.Cyclist have been know to cycle into such objects at night!

Ed Robinson ● 1108d

"Signs are bland and generic." Really? Do you have any examples, because the ones I've seen are pretty obvious, like the examples here.
And "People will be caught every day, and that is the business model, of course". Really? I don't think so, that's a comfortable and comforting urban myth. "We need our Satnavs to warn us as we approach a LTN camera." Possibly, but I suggest in the meantime, whilst we wait for this to happen, that people employ the old-fashioned method and use their eyes.

Richard Carter ● 1108d

I'm sure that many motorists care less about being banned from filtering through residential areas, but really take objection to the sneaky way that local authorities use these traps to raise money. Signs are bland and generic, and no-one should be trying to read the 'small print' on them anyway, as they pass them at 20 mph. People will be caught every day, and that is the business model, of course.  Car technology now needs to catch up; we need our Satnavs to warn us as we approach a LTN camera.

Bill Christie ● 1108d

Gridlock on the New Kings Rd yesterday afternoon. Stationary both directions. Never seen it so bad.

Freddie Francis ● 1109d

Link to the report is here: http://wearepossible.org/LTN-report-2023The count points and the LTN locations are interesting.    Figure 2: LTNs across London districts, implemented March 2020-March 2022  Figure 4: the location of the 587 count points included in the main analysis.The question has to be asked - why aren't we capturing more data?Of course it would help if the data was as accurate as possible too. The "Data Issues" indicates that cycling monitoring needs to be improved. If we are to switch resources to other forms of transport such as cycling we need to be able to measure the impact.

Ed Robinson ● 1110d