Forum Topic

Would any anti-vaxx people like to comment?

on the unfolding situation in China? Low uptake of vaccines, plus less effective vaccines - all appears to be causing another disaster with some figures suggesting 6000 deaths a day.The pictures on the Daily Mail website are pretty grim.Is this all fakery then? Crisis actors etc?https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11594391/China-admits-Covid-deaths-huge-70-Shanghais-25m-residents-infected.html

Matt Palmer ● 894d39 Comments

Did anybody actually tell you that they were unaffected by the jabs?

David Ainsworth ● 884d

"You actually believe China are giving us accurate information on what’s going on !!"Of course I don't believe everything the Chinese government says (I doubt they do either), so that, like most of your comments, is silly."do you believe the BBC are not biased in it’s reporting"No, more silliness; the BBC gets things wrong sometimes, but to imagine, as you seem to, that there's a great conspiracy to disguise some awful "truth" (i.e., fantasy) that you cling to, is irrational foolishness.As for the suggestion that there are "deaths and dreadful side effects of thousands from the covid vaccination program," there is simply no evidence of this. But do go ahead and believe every ridiculous conspiracy theory that you trawl from the internet if it makes you happy, just don't try to pretend that there's any reality behind them.

Richard Carter ● 884d

Apart from this that and the other has anybody actually had conversations with friends or found out how they are feeling, or whether they have heard of their friends being ill. I've heard a load have had problems. even a couple of weeks ago I know somebody who had to get a taxi in October to hospital after having the Moderna jab as she was short of breath that evening, turns out they have now put her on 11 tablets might have had a heart attack. If you actually talk to people your more likely to hear how the jabs are affecting people.

Barbara Stevens ● 884d

No, I certainly do not accept everything that China says. Nor do I completely trust the BBC and the UK mass media generally, after what I believe I have seen in recent years. However, I would generally reckon that I could still get more by way of accuracy out of the both of them, using my judgment, than I could from a bunch of conspiracy-obsessed randoms on the Forum.--------------------------"Trust in me, just in meShut your eyes, trust in meYou can sleep, safe and soundKnowing I am aroundSleep into silent slumberSail on a silver mistSlowly and surely your sensesWill cease to resist".

David Ainsworth ● 884d

Michael,The first article was dated early December as with the Guardian generally it is what it doesn't say that is a concern.A quick fact check should have stated where China was with its  mRNA Covid vaccine.The Guardian article does make clear that the vaccination rollout was during it's zero covid policy and context is important. The SCMP article 20/3/2021 (link below) is clearer and does seem entirely logical when you have a zero covid policy.Of course this does not of excuse the fact that China could have done more. Single party states which tend to be male dominated with a lack of transparency and draconian laws when it comes to the press will always fall short of their true potential as we found out in the UK during its brief Covid unity government."“China has the ability to do [medical research and development]. Why they haven’t come up with a bivalent vaccine puzzles me,” said Prof Chi Chunhuei, the director of Oregon State University’s centre for global health. “Perhaps they were too reliant on zero Covid.”https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/cansinobios-mrna-covid-vaccine-candidate-cleared-trials-china-2022-04-04/https://www.ft.com/content/30de6f9b-af46-4d05-99d9-afc5d221e05dhttps://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3127484/china-moves-elderly-further-covid-19-vaccine-queue

Ed Robinson ● 884d

The Guardian seems to be a source that indicates the elderly weren't focused in China's policy vaccination policy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/02/vaccines-key-china-zero-covid-exit-still-a-challenge?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other It's difficult to ascertain the true situation in China but some reporter's seem to have found from their sources that that the situation isn't good: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/5-instances-that-prove-china-is-fudging-its-covid-data/articleshow/96852018.cms In answer to Paul, perhaps the BBC isn't reporting the "dreadful side effects of thousands" because there isn't any reliable evidence that any exist? They have on some programmes discussed the few outlying cases where some people have had severe adverse reactions, but given the millions vaccinated the statistics still seem to indicate it is better to mitigate the effects of Covid with the vaccine rather than encounter the disease unprotected, don't they? I'm not sure of your sources Paul but if, as Sean point out, they confuse coronavirus with influenza you should perhaps question their veracity!

Michael Ixer ● 884d

Philippa,May I ask what your source is for such a statement?

Ed Robinson ● 884d

I understood that a reason for so many Covid deaths in China is that they started by vaccinating the young and not the old and it is the old who are so susceptible to the Covid virus whereas the young have proved not to be.

Philippa Bond ● 884d

Probably the best explanation i've heard for a whilehttps://twitter.com/davramdavram/status/1613237062957686805?t=9XT5OKtU9e4qC0TX-pR_0Q&s=08

Matt Palmer ● 884d

Richard and David, You actually believe China are giving us accurate information on what’s going on !!!  Just asking, do you believe the BBC are not biased in it’s reporting, when did the BBC report of the deaths and dreadful side effects of thousands from the covid vaccination program.

Paul Beer ● 885d

So, if you know that the "true facts will be hidden", how do you know what the "true facts" are? Do you have some source denied to the rest of us? How do you know that this source is not lying to you for its own reasons?He knows, David, because he's "done his own research" lol.

Richard Carter ● 889d

Covid is not an influenza type virus but a coronavirus from the same family as the common cold. If you can't get even that right why should anyone listen to the rest of your conspiracy nonsense?

Sean Hodges ● 889d

"I think we can agree the true facts will be hidden from us. Personally I belief many truths including what’s going on in China are held back regularly by government and its BBC news"So, if you know that the "true facts will be hidden", how do you know what the "true facts" are? Do you have some source denied to the rest of us? How do you know that this source is not lying to you for its own reasons? Indeed how do we know that we can trust you? Are you really suggesting that the government and the BBC are protecting China - or are they doing the opposite? Which is it?

David Ainsworth ● 889d

We know that covid is a respiratory influenza type virus I would add to this there is strong evidence available saying ‘gain of function’  has been flagged showing manipulation to the  virus, I think we can agree the true facts will be hidden from us. Personally I belief many  truths including what’s going on in China are held back regularly by government and its BBC news Best P.

Paul Beer ● 889d

This is an interesting article on origins of the SARS-Cov-2 virus. It doesn't resolve the issue of whether it was transmitted from an animal in a wet market versus a laboratory accident, although it does seem more probable that appalling animal welfare practices assisted the migration of the virus to humans - one would think laboratories have better controls.https://www.wired.co.uk/article/tracing-covid-pandemic-originsUnfortunately getting reliable data from China at present is difficult - possibly not helped by Trump's statements about the "China" virus? Surely, the aim should not be to attribute any blame but to gather the evidence to ascertain the facts so we can learn and take precautions to prevent future pandemics as far as is practicable? The negativity seems to have caused China to clam up and limit cooperation.I don't think there's any doubt from extensive analysis of the virus that it's a severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus:https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1143

Michael Ixer ● 891d

Never thought covid wasn’t real. I strongly believe that covid is a Gain-of-function influenza type virus which involves manipulating organisms to increase their transmissibility, virulence was man made in China. I don’t really know about the covid death rate in China like I didn’t now and trust covid death rates in U.K. I understand roughly 28,000 die each day in China for all causes.

Paul Beer ● 891d

I have no idea what you are on about Michael.Thousands of people appear to be dying every day in China due to COVID.Are you saying they are dropping like flies because of their vaccine? If so how does that fit with Mr Beer's comments that actually China are in a better position because they aren't using MNRA vaccines? Or are you denying it's happening at all?Perhaps they two of you need to discuss?

Matt Palmer ● 892d

Michael B,the WHO have approved the Sinopharm Covid vaccine do you have objections to that too?https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-sinopharm-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know

Ed Robinson ● 892d

Matt Palmer is showing signs that he's ready to concede to the harms that the Covid vaccines are causing. He could be a good addition to the movement once he starts gluing himself to roads in protest against their use..

Michael Brown ● 892d

According to this link Asian countries generally have higher vaccine rates than European countries.Also in some Asian countries mask wearing and other measures have continued even after government restrictions have been lifted.https://www.statista.com/statistics/1202074/share-of-population-vaccinated-covid-19-by-county-worldwide/

Ed Robinson ● 892d

thanks for replying Paul.You seem to not comment on the sudden spread of covid across China and the thousands of deaths a day though? Why is that?Also, does this mean you now believe covid is real?thanks!

Matt Palmer ● 892d

Hello Putney forum, good start to the NY with this important topic.I read the opposite. 90% in mainland China have been fully vaccinated. The Chinese went  for traditional vaccines, both CoronaVac and Sinopharm use an older, but well-proven, technology. Unlike the West and it’s fast tracked not fully tested dangerous MRNA vaccination program that didn’t stop you getting or passing covid on to others, but generated massive profits whilst causing deaths and side effects that we will witness for the next 10 years.

Paul Beer ● 892d

it's really quite bizarre that discussing "What if" scenarios and working out how to plan for them is seen by M.Brown as a great big conspiracy...government departments & businesses do this all the time, they would be neglecting their duties if they didnt.

Adam Tripp ● 893d

Yes, surely this is the type of exercises the WHO and ther health leaders should be participating in regularly.  Those of us in Infosec were always being encouraged to dry run cyber security incidents so o e would expect the same to improve contingency planning in health,  etc.

Michael Ixer ● 893d

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/exercises/2022-catastrophic-contagion/actually quite interesting - just a 5 minute read

Adam Tripp ● 893d

I think you might be right....

Matt Palmer ● 893d

Well, Matt, Mr Brown seems to have gone off on a tangent about Bill Gates and Satan. I'm no great fan of Windows as an OS but it's really not as bad as Hell! (Is it?) But, seriously, I think you and your comment regarding China are being ignored by the "pseudo science" brigade, or it's taking them a while to construct the "alternative facts"?

Michael Ixer ● 893d

I'm sure Ed, but I want to hear from Paul Beer and the like about what they think about it - the pictures looks pretty bad to me.

Matt Palmer ● 893d

Matt,It is difficult to know what is going on in China it is a huge country and it is going to have a lot of variations.The two waves that hit the UK peaked at around 1,500 deaths per day I believe. 6,000 would be 4 times that amount, but the population of China as I understand it is 20 times the UK's.What I found interesting is that apparently waste traps are not required in buildings which may lead to infection spreading between apartments. Obviously population density and multigenerational living also will impact. Italy being a good  example. On the subject of vaccines - Western vaccines are not free although the EU are offering to donate some:Reading this article vaccine coverage is mentioned but not the comparable EU figure which I believe is 2 vaccines and a booster??"Only 40 percent of over-80s have had three doses, according to WHO data.""China’s mission to the EU insisted on Sunday that the country had good vaccination coverage. “More than 3.4bn Covid-19 vaccine doses have been administered on the Chinese mainland, with over 90 per cent of the population fully vaccinated and over 92 per cent of the population received at least one dose,” it said.https://www.ft.com/content/1c46e139-4b98-4e3a-b66d-7a04c27893d2https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/vaccines

Ed Robinson ● 893d

Mr Brown is pretty useless as a prophet, isn't he? He only comes out with his "hair-raising" threat scenarios AFTER the future "perpetrators" have publicly had a run-through of their "project". As if their openness is some sort of proof of their evil intent. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-catastrophic-contagion-idUSL1N3351YU

David Ainsworth ● 893d

That's right - and a lot of buildings have had their ventilation changed and improved since then as a result of what has been learnt.It is also why we have often been advised to meet in open spaces rather than crowded rooms.  All a bit more complicated in winter!

Philippa Bond ● 893d

But what about China Mr Brown? real or not?

Matt Palmer ● 893d

"whilst it is Satanic etiquette to give advance warning"Oh yeah, everybody must remember the Japanese public rehearsal for Pearl Harbour. Why did no-one pay attention?We might not have lost that war!Why are these WEF people so flaunty!?

David Ainsworth ● 893d

Good comment, Ed. I think in enclosed spaces one has to design the ventilation suit doesn't drag infected air over non infected people if it's a tightly packed enclosure. (Goes back to an article I read early on in the pandemic where the air conditioning seemed to spread the virus in a Chinese restaurant.)

Michael Ixer ● 893d

Actually, Bill Gates and the gang have since carried out another rehearsal, for the next plandemic - a couple of months back - much worse than Covid and targets children. The title they gave their exercise tells us all we need to know. However, whilst it is Satanic etiquette to give advance warning, the real events still differ somewhat..

Michael Brown ● 894d

"Best defence is testing and vaccination plus, if sick,  staying at home?"We have all seen pictures of airports (including Heathrow) with thousands of people squeezed together stuck waiting to clear customs/immigration due to test requirements which is just madness.Ventilation and air filtration are still largely ignored.As Michael says a mixture of policies is needed but that must include the above.

Ed Robinson ● 894d

Didn't Trump ban travel from China in 2020at the start of the pandemic then Covid got to New York via Italy. Best defence is testing and vaccination plus, if sick,  staying at home?

Michael Ixer ● 894d

"They started it, why let them finish us all off."But surely it wasn't China? I thought that it was the World Economic Forum, wasn't it? "Michael Brown" told us that it was so on 15/8/22:-"it was the WEF that rehearsed a coronavirus pandemic drill just weeks before it actually happened, at which point the WEF hailed the covid outbreak as a marvellous opportunity." and Just William again on 26/11/20:-"All pushed by the elitist led World Economic Forum who, in October 2019, carried out an exercise named Event 201 where a global pandemic was assumed, to discuss the implications and the required world response. The scenario assumed a Coronavirus originating from a bat in China. Weeks later, their exercise went live.."Spain didn't start the Spanish Flu.

David Ainsworth ● 894d

Don't let them in to the UK. They started it, why let them finish us all off. Never mind about the climate crisis, sit at the Airport make sure they don't come in.

Barbara Stevens ● 894d