Forum Topic

Relative values?

"Rishi Sunak: Nurses' 19% pay claim obviously unaffordable""Britain’s new PM is almost a billionaire — with a net worth twice that of King Charles".

David Ainsworth ● 928d21 Comments

Any errors that you make will be safe with me. I never even made that sort of program run right.I did like playing "Gridrunner" though:-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXf6j2hSk20

David Ainsworth ● 926d

David, please don't parse the syntax looking for errors. I once wrote code for a living but that was several decades ago! :-)

Michael Ixer ● 926d

I had a Commodore Vic-20 once you know.

David Ainsworth ● 926d

INPUT LINETOWRITE
LOOP FOR 1 TO 100; PRINT LINETOWRITE; END
EXIT
• 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 926d

"You must write 100 times, I will not let people annoy me and I shouldn't jump to the wrong conclusion."Wow, so that is how you manage to be such a beacon of peace, love and understanding, Ms Stevens.

David Ainsworth ● 926d

Sorry Michael, if you have nobody to argue with, is that the only way you get any attention. You must write 100 times, I will not let people annoy me and I shouldn't jump to the wrong conclusion.

Barbara Stevens ● 926d

Barbara. Aren't fruit pickers among those you mention in your post: "Also too many people coming into the country using our NHS.". I they injur themselves picking fruit they'll be off to A&E :-)

Michael Ixer ● 926d

Michael, you always make such a big thing about everything. It gets boring. What the f--- have cherry pickers got to do with the hospital.

Barbara Stevens ● 926d

"we have an increasing use of food banks - I believe this now includes nursing staff."Police officers too, apparently.https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-officers-using-food-banks-27651903

David Ainsworth ● 926d

Adam. I agree it's crazy that the NHS uses agencies and pays agency fees rather than pays staff adequately and trains a sufficient number. Contract staff should only be used where a specific skill is needed for a short period and can't be satisfied with permanent staff. I suppose this is an effect of austerity, although perhaps good for any Conservative supporters running the agencies? I think the relevance of Sunak's wealth is that it highlights the wealth gap in the UK; there's plenty of wealth in the country but we have an increasing use of food banks - I believe this now includes nursing staff. I can't be certain of this, but we seem to be the only western European country where this is the case? But I'm prepared to be corrected if anyone has the evidence.

Michael Ixer ● 926d

We don't train enough medical staff so there are recruitment drives made in overseas countries to sign up staff to come here.  They hope to be able to make some money to send home but I'm not sure how easy that is in the current climate.There is also a big drop out rate from those that we do train here as they don't find the conditions at work good being very responsible and stressful and they can find other better paid jobs without all the problems above.

Philippa Bond ● 926d

12 hour shifts - not including travel to and from hospitals (I don't think there are nurses' homes right next to most hospitals any more).  That 12 hours isn't 12 hours anyway because they are short staffed and they can't just clock off they have to make sure that they have written up notes etc.  So their 12 hour shifts are often 14 hours.The work has become a lot more complicated with the use of technology which you have to know how to use and with agency nurses who you have to explain things to and with the constant shortage of staff.And to today we are hearing about whistleblowers who are being harassed and reported to the GMC. This should be and could be teamwork but when half the team is not there the outcome is just not going to be the best.

Philippa Bond ● 926d

Logic surely dictates that if there is immigration some will be users of the NHS while others will work in its services - and some will do both, nurses and doctors sometimes use the health service themselves. Not all immigrants work in the NHS, some pick fruit, others work in high tech, financial services, etc (many have settled status from before Brexit).Yes, I agree the staff at Kingston Hospital are great and, as you say, a high proportion are from overseas or (I would guess) second or third generation of immigrants. 

Michael Ixer ● 926d

"I cant see any relevance between the PM's wealth and a nurses salary."Well, I suppose that it can act as an example to the nurses of what they can aspire to through real hard work. (Over about 20,000 years).

David Ainsworth ● 926d

"wrt nurses salaries, I dont see them as badly paid"Figures suggest that the most experienced front-line nurses are around £6144 per year worse off now than ten years ago due to wages failing to keep up with the rate of inflation https://nursingnotes.co.uk/news/workforce/hospitals-set-up-food-banks-in-desperate-attempt-to-support-struggling-staff/

Matt Palmer ● 926d

I cant see any relevance between the PM's wealth and a nurses salary. wrt nurses salaries, I dont see them as badly paid - perhaps slightly underpaid paid but the basic 37.5 hour week doesnt seem unreasonable. I think the way forward is to offer an increase in line with inflation but increase overtime rates from 1.5 salary to 2 or even 2.25. Where would the money come from? well, there are over 30'000 vacancies so logically the money is available to pay for these positions, so why not use it to improve pay for the nurses we have and wean ourselves off the NHS's high dependence on agency nurses.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/63587909

Adam Tripp ● 926d

Michael, I don't know if men don't think like women, but I was on about people using the NHS, not working for it. When I was in Hosp last March, the staff at Kingston were fantastic, a lot better than 8yrs ago. The men and women nurses were so efficient, I think they were from the Philippines.

Barbara Stevens ● 926d

But without first and second generation immigrants filling the jobs of doctors and nurses the NHS would collapse completely ...

Michael Ixer ● 927d

"net worth twice that of King Charles"Perhaps it's time to privatise the monarchy;)

Ed Robinson ● 927d

Also too many people coming into the country using our NHS.

Barbara Stevens ● 927d

So I heard someone today saying how unaffordable NHS pay claims are (despite the fact that Scotland has approved some) and asking how we are going to pay for them.  When you see 23 ambulances queuing outside one hospital waiting to discharge their patients and hear how nearly 1,500 patients with serious problems eg heart attack are waiting more than an hour for an ambulance to arrive to take them to hospital (and that is just one of the waits on the way to treatment in hospital) and someone asking how we are going to pay for it, you do wonder how we could have let this Govt spend so much time dismantling our NHS and refusing to put taxes up.  Taxes here lag behind the spending that is needed and have done for a long time. There is a better patient to bed and healthcare ratio in other neighbouring European countries.  Austerity went on for too long (admitted by some Tory MPs as well), there is a difference between the way that Govt finances and Household finances work and it is a joke to worry about the younger generation paying for this that and the other when it has been the younger generation paying for several generations ahead of them for years. World War II debt was after all not finally paid off until the end of 2006.Not enough medical staff are being trained, staff are burnt out from running understaffed hospitals for years and worse still hospitals were under prepared for an expected sometime pandemic and staff guilt tripped into going back to work after retirement.  They are thousands of staff short in the NHS.Rant over!  When the population is constantly increasing (aging population not just birthrate) it is irritating to be fobbed off with the "we've put in more money than ever before".  I should jolly well think so.Rant over! 

Philippa Bond ● 927d