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Just Stop Oil protesters throw tomato soup over Van Gogh's Sunflowers masterpiece

Mindless vandalism!🤬These half-wits are just brainless vandals and give serious protestors a bad name.🤬https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-protesters-throw-tomato-soup-over-van-goghs-sunflowers-masterpiece-12720183

Sue Hammond ● 975d104 Comments

I don't actually understand that comment lol. (not the deflection bit obv)Why is it any different to what the suffragettes did?

Matt Palmer ● 969d

Nothing to do with it Matt, but nice try at deflection, again.🙄

Sue Hammond ● 969d

Suffragettes actually properly destroyed paintings, much worse than tipping soup over a fully encased painting.

Matt Palmer ● 969d

What the flying f**k does some spoiled whiny brats desecrating a magnificent painting have to do with saving the planet?https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20159988/piers-morgan-climate-change-protestors?utm_source=sharebar_app&utm_medium=sharebar_app&utm_campaign=sharebar_app_article"Morgan Trowland, a 39-year-old engineer from New Zealand, perfectly personifies the arrogance, delusion, selfishness, and hypocritical cowardice of these eco-loon imbeciles who’ve become a daily blight on our lives."

Sue Hammond ● 969d

Probably got locked up on purpose so they didn't have to pay their gas and electric, and lovely prison food.

Barbara Stevens ● 970d

Good they can join their mates!😺

Sue Hammond ● 970d

I suspect the prison service won't appreciate that. Unlike normal prisoners who often accept their punishment of these prisoners consider themselves prisoners of a political nature which can be disruptive to prison life. I believe from something I read at the time that was an issue with those jailed during the Greenham Common protests. And if fines go unpaid the government will probably regret cuts to the justice system when the bureaucracy cracks up 😶

Michael Ixer ● 970d

There's about 50 in jail already

Matt Palmer ● 970d

Maybe, until a few of them get jailed ...

Sue Hammond ● 970d

No doubt they aren't bothered in the slightest. One of the tactics JSO are using is to get so many people arrested that it starts to block up the court system.They knew exactly what they were getting into when they did it!

Matt Palmer ● 970d

Morning Matt.  The painting wasn't destroyed thankfully but the two imbeciles have been charged with criminal damage to the frame and will be in Court on 13th December.  Hopefully a large fine to accompany a criminal conviction will be their reward for stupidity.

Sue Hammond ● 970d

But policemen turning up in plain clothes at meetings at animal rights protest group meetings were given away by their polished leather shoes ... learn from the social engineering hackers :-)

Michael Ixer ● 970d

Interestingly the Greenpeace demonstrators who disrupted the Tory party conference were smartly dressed in blue. Dressing smartly can promote an air of authority and credibility in certain circumstances …

Michael Ixer ● 970d

No Philippa they would still be idiotic tw@ts.

Sue Hammond ● 970d

Would it be different if they wore suits and ties?

Philippa Bond ● 970d

Except they didnt destroy....but anyway, who cares about facts?

Matt Palmer ● 971d

Ha Ha very true, the time it takes to paint a painting and twats  2 seconds to destroy. Their just dirty scruffy idiots.

Barbara Stevens ● 971d

Those 2 on QE2 bridge should have been left there and not allowed down until they fell. They could then have been glued together and hung in the Tate as a work of art.

Andy Pike ● 971d

You disagree with this too?:-"Capitalism will not solve the problem, it only makes it worse."

David Ainsworth ● 971d

Sorry Philippa but that article is 99% bollox.  For example:1. Art is an extension of corporate power2. Fighting class oppression and climate change is the same🙄

Sue Hammond ● 971d

https://theconversation.com/three-arguments-why-just-stop-oil-was-right-to-target-van-goghs-sunflowers-192661

Philippa Bond ● 971d

Ok, Ed, I was focusing on universal suffrage! Teach me to post on the tube where it's difficult to double check the facts! (The wi fi's really needed in the tunnels as well as stations so it doesn't keep cutting out in the middle of downloads and uploads.).

Michael Ixer ● 973d

"one person one vote did not come to the UK until well after the second world war!"In 1948 the UK finally got one person one vote for the UK Parliament.(1969 for the Northern Ireland Parliament.)

Ed Robinson ● 973d

Yes, but how many people read the register of donations towards MPs campaigns eg leadership campaigns and research any further?For the youngsters protesting it is about their future and for the pensioners protesting it is about their children's and grandchildren's future.There is a lot of greenwashing going on.

Philippa Bond ● 973d

I see Park Lane and Aston Martin were targeted today:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/just-stop-oil-protesters-spray-28251589#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16659416721752&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-news%2Fjust-stop-oil-protesters-spray-28251589I'm assuming ORANGE was in capital letters because the Mirror was outraged that they didn't use British Racing Green?

Michael Ixer ● 973d

The people supporting fracking and denying climate change seem more privileged than those protesting that action needs to be taken? 

Michael Ixer ● 973d

https://www.desmog.com/2022/09/09/liz-truss-campaign-funded-by-donors-from-pro-fracking-groups-and-climate-denier/

Philippa Bond ● 973d

Didn't all women over 21 get the vote in 1928 giving them equality with men?

Michael Ixer ● 973d

As far as I am aware the suffragettes were fighting for equality within their class not across class and sex. Happy to be corrected.But the question that should be asked is why New Zealand was decades ahead of the great democratic UK and why one person one vote did not come to the UK until well after the second world war!

Ed Robinson ● 973d

Point to ponder: didn't the suffragettes come mainly from privileged backgrounds? Does anyone object to what they fought for? Is it just that people in privileged positions have more time and money to consider and take action to improve society?

Michael Ixer ● 973d

Apologies, I never learnt Smiley.

David Ainsworth ● 974d

David,Are XR activists being treated differently because if their race and class would be one?https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/19/extinction-rebellion-white-faces-diversityhttps://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/04/extinction-rebellion-race-climate-crisis-inequalityhttps://www.thenation.com/article/politics/extinction-rebellion-climate-race/

Ed Robinson ● 974d

David ... there was a reason I put smiley at the end. But the government maintains a pretence that there is a link: if you don't make sufficient payments one gets a reduced or no pension. 

Michael Ixer ● 974d

No, I think the police should arrest them and they should appear before a court.

Martine Guy ● 974d

"But, Matt, pensions aren't a benefit, we've paid out NI in order to qualify for them :-)"That NI isn't put in a pot, is it? I thought that it had mostly been spent long ago.

David Ainsworth ● 974d

"Re: the deference of the police and store security staff,"Do you agree with Mr Hawkes that some bruises or a bit of unemployment would be good for the protesters?

David Ainsworth ● 974d

"XR's lack of diversity has been widely reported on over the years."Some links would help." I'm sure now they are very representative of the UK's population if they weren't I'm sure people would be asking questions."Could you suggest what such questions might be?

David Ainsworth ● 974d

But, Matt, pensions aren't a benefit, we've paid out NI in order to qualify for them :-)

Michael Ixer ● 974d

Mr Hawkes, I guess unless you subscribe to the Piers Corbyn school of science that it's all about sunspots so we've no control over it and hence it's all a capitalist plot anyway then it probably depends how badly affected one has been by recent weather that most climate scientists ascribe to rising temperatures. Perhaps if you were in the middle of the recent Pakistan floods it might seem apocalyptic? (Although admittedly not everyone there was affected by those; the travel plans of a Pakistani friend visiting London were delayed by the appallingly inefficiency of the British home office which seems to be having its own apocalypse.) And I think I've heard Californians surveying the wreckage of their houses describe recent fires as apocalyptic. Of course, with this type of science the modelling can be subject to a wide range of variances depending on assumptions, although I believe some of the experienced modellers now believe their assumptions were too optimistic particularly in regard to the speed of ice cap melting which appears to be accelerating. This is likely to lead to a faster rise in global temperatures and sea levels.I guess if one lived on an oceanic island that might be flooded as a consequence of this they might consider it apocalyptic? They might consider calling thinking along these lines as being a cult somewhat insulting?Still, Mr Hawkes, at our age and where we live not something we probably have to worry about? Those who belong to what you consider a cult may be pessimistic but could have more reason to be concerned.

Michael Ixer ● 974d

I don’t think John Hawkes have ever agreed on anything before!  Re: the deference of the police and store security staff, next thing they will touching their forelock’s and asking protesters if they would like help taking the cap off the glue/milk, sir/miss. Really it’s ridiculous.

Martine Guy ● 974d

XR's lack of diversity has been widely reported on over the years.Of course you can't believe everything you read, I'm sure now they are very representative of the UK's population if they weren't I'm sure people would be asking questions.

Ed Robinson ● 974d

"'How do I know this' ?"'I infer it'So wrong of me to question your inference then.

David Ainsworth ● 974d

Mr Ainsworth'How do I know this' ?I infer it because they seem willing and able to spend days gluing themselves to the roads rather than working.

John Hawkes ● 974d

To be honest I think the vegan milk protesters are worse than those protesting potential climate changing policies.What right has anyone to tell me what I can or cannot eat or drink providing it is legally available ?There are far too many protest groups and factions today deciding what they think is wrong and imposing their beliefs on others even if what they object to is within the law And I certainly endorse your comments about the (non) actions of the stores' security staff.Any common yob or school kid causing criminal damage in my local Sainsburys would soon be dealt with.But then they would probably not be middle class idlers who would sanctimoniously claim to be saving me from myself.And you are right to raise the class issue.Financially secure members of the middle class with no obvious need to work confronting members of the working class who need to drive to earn money to support themselves and their families.What hypocrisy !I am surprised that more of them are not more vigorous in trying to clear the protesters and defending their rights to go lawfully about their business when the police are so reluctant to intervene.A few more bruises might make the protesters think twice. 

John Hawkes ● 974d

I can't speak for members of JSO but a massive proportion of the people being arrested and charged for XR actions are pensioners.Guess that triple lock works well!

Matt Palmer ● 974d

Is all that lobbying of MPs democratic?  These lobbying groups/thinktanks are created to promote the points of view and interests of particular groups. In Tufton Street there are a whole collection of them. Why not check out the Global Warming Policy Foundation?  There are also lists of those MPs who have received funding from oil and gas companies/foundations.

Philippa Bond ● 974d

They are members of a cult in that they believe the current changes in climate herald the apocalypse which has not been proven.

John Hawkes ● 974d

"but it seems to me that most of them are quite able to survive financially without any source of income - unless of course we are supporting them through our tax funded benefits."How do you know this?

David Ainsworth ● 974d

Jimmy Carr is just like the sticky crew - a smug, self-regarding publicity seeker.However he is worse in that he is completely predictable and worse totally unfunny as a so called comedian.

John Hawkes ● 974d

I have suggested earlier that the best way to punish these law breakers is to get them charged and convicted and hence for them to have a criminal record.This will be a huge impediment to them getting a decent job but it seems to me that most of them are quite able to survive financially without any source of income - unless of course we are supporting them through our tax funded benefits.

John Hawkes ● 974d

"I wouldn't throw anything at a painting."How about this one?"A new Channel 4 show in which a studio audience will decide whether comedian Jimmy Carr should destroy a painting by Adolf Hitler has been criticised.The channel has bought works by Hitler and other "problematic" artists to be used in Jimmy Carr Destroys Art.Channel 4 said the series would be "a thoughtful and nuanced exploration of the limits of free expression in art".But the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust called it "deeply inappropriate" and said Carr was an "inflammatory" host."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63240336

David Ainsworth ● 974d

"As far as I understand it XR, IB etc get money from the same pot, use the same resources they are effectively the same organisation."What is this same pot?

David Ainsworth ● 974d

If you look at IB demands it is extremely right wing, which is really odd because the Green's policies are very left and progressive.IB for example demand that all houses are insulated for free and paid for by the government. New doors, windows etc not interest free or very low interest or paid back when sold, but 100% paid by the government funded from general taxation.In short a transfer of even more wealth from non-property owners to property owners. Property owners are already over represented by both the main political parties.There are a range of progressive measure they could champion instead they pick an extreme right wing policy that would make any Tory government look left wing by comparison.As far as I understand it XR, IB etc get money from the same pot, use the same resources they are effectively the same organisation.

Ed Robinson ● 974d

Martine. The two women who threw the soup were arrested, charged with criminal damage, pleaded not guilty and have been bailed to appear again.Protesting per se isn't (at least wasn't) an offence in the UK and shouldn't be, it depends what one does when protesting - for example, committing criminal damage in an offence. The protesters in Iran and Russia wouldn't as far as I know be committing an offence in the UK, although recent UK laws have restricted our democratic rights. With regards to milk in supermarkets being destroyed then that is up to the company and store managers when and where they take action. I'm not aware of these incidents. As a vegan I wouldn't condone that as it's unlikely to change people's attitudes but I don't know the details. 

Michael Ixer ● 974d

I don’t understand why these people aren’t being arrested?  If whitevan man decided to stage a protest and glued themselves to the road they would be arrested, but the privileged upper middle classes can get away with it.  Look at the vegan protesters destroying milk in shops, why are security men doing nothing.  If a hard up mum went in and stole milk for her children, security would apprehend her,

Martine Guy ● 974d

@DA 16.50I wouldn't throw anything at a painting.

Sue Hammond ● 974d

This idea that the UK is in the forefront of reacting to climate change is a delusion. Government "net zero" is mainly slogans and spin. There is no credible plan in place to achieve the targets laid down in the Climate Change Act and very recently the High Court ruled the government to be in breach of said act for this very reason.Many members of the public appear to have been taken in by this spin. Drawing their attention to the issues is not such a bad thing.

Michael Winstanley ● 974d

Exactly David! Of course they weren't trying to destroy the painting.

Caroline Whitehead ● 974d

Sue, I think you're wrong, they may be lawless, possibly a mob (although that's stretching a point with two people gluing themselves to the National Gallery), but I disagree any of these groups are a cult. Checking the Cambridge English Dictionary it defines a cult as "a religious group, often living together, whose beliefs are considered extreme or strange by many people". One might consider their actions extreme or strange but cults are based on beliefs, and climate change is not a belief, it's a scientific fact. Aside from the measured average temperatures there's the increase in the proportion of gases such as CO2 in the atmosphere, and it's possible to tell from the ratio of carbon isotopes that this is new CO2. So one might consider it unproductive, antisocial, etc but it's based on good science not an irrational belief so, sorry Sue, it's not a cult. Perhaps the fact we've lost sight of the science in this discussion means that there might be better way of protest: waving banners at party conferences or dressing up as fruits?!

Michael Ixer ● 974d

"I hope others do listen to the interview and give their opinion on whether JSO intended to maliciously ruin the painting."Would you choose tomato soup to maliciously ruin a painting?I've never used Nitromors myself, but it sounds a better choice on painted wood.

David Ainsworth ● 974d

Yes Matt he did say that some paintings are protected but imo this was said in hindsight and to mitigate the girls' actions.  Earlier during the interview was asked if he knew the painting would not be damaged but he did not confirm that  was the case which made me believe he thought it would be. I hope others do listen to the interview and give their opinion on whether JSO intended to maliciously ruin the painting.No apologies for calling the lawless mob a cult. Sorry. Not.

Sue Hammond ● 974d

Why are posters so incensed over an undamaged painting? Is it really the most important current event? I mean there's Miriam Margolyes being rude on BBC Radio 4's Today programme about Jeremy Hunt (and, surprisingly and sadly, she didn't even repeat that programme's mispronunciation of his surname a few years ago, which would surely have been a better gesture).Anyway, if people are so angry about the soup episode, why don't they retaliate? They could go over to the Museum of Modern Art in New York and throw a bottle of sunflower oil over Mr Warhol's famous soup-related work:-https://www.moma.org/collection/works/79809

David Ainsworth ● 974d

Hi Sue, thanks for that, I just listened to it :) he certainly didnt want his surname on air but he did say he was a student. If you listen back he actually said something like "it's well known the these sorts of paintings are protected"Good job cramming the word 'cult' in though, that's cult why not join in with John and just go for fascist death cult? lolI thought that considering his young age (sounds early 20s I guess) that he spoke really well. I'm not going to reply to other posts on the Andrew Castle unless you've taken the time to listen to it. You can find it on the lbc player (download it to your phone) and then it's about 1 hour 40 mins in from this mornings broadcast.Would be interested to hear what other people think

Matt Palmer ● 974d

In these times when people are using food banks to feed their kids, is it really a responsible action to throw perfectly good soup over a painting?

Andy Pike ● 974d

An interesting philosophical discussion. I'd not consider them fascist; most fascists belong to quite strictly controlled organisations around a figurehead that try an infiltrate and take over government as Hitler, Mussolini, Frando did in the 1930s (and Oswald Mosley would like to have done and how Putin has done now. (And Le Pen and Meloni may be on the fringe of doing?)XR, IB and JSO don't, in my understanding, have any desire to organise and take over or subvert government; they just want to publicise and influence issues needing action. (One can argue whether they do that in a sensible or effective way but they certainly get publicity - good or bad - so there's certainly more awareness now than before; whether that's influencing the desired actions is difficult to tell.) My guess is they possibly don't vote or support the Green party?On that basis I'd say the members of these groups tend more towards the definition of anarchists? ("Anarchy: a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems")

Michael Ixer ● 974d

Hi Matt. There was an oik from JSO talking to Andrew Castle on LBC early this morning. I can't remember his first name but he was apparently a spokesperson for JSO and the organiser of this stunt. He sounded quite young but would not give his full name, would not say whether he was employed or a student and it was clear that although he represented the cult he really did not want to be identified; so much reticence and definitely not displaying the courage of his convictions.🙄Castle asked the oik if he knew the painting was protected behind glass before the stunt went ahead but he wouldn't say (yes or no) despite being pushed on it several times by AC. It sounded very much to me that oik did not know in advance that the painting would not be damaged, but it didn't matter anyway because according to him getting their message across was of far greater importance than a piece of priceless art! The sense of entitlement to do whatever they want and the ignorance of these brainwashed idiots is unbelievable!  I heard today that the two airheads who threw the soup have been charged with criminal damage so I hope they are pleased with themselves. A criminal conviction on a CV always looks so good doesn't it?🙄

Sue Hammond ● 974d

"Of course, these people are not Nazis"You didnt call them nazi's you called them fascists.Were the suffragettes also fascists?

Matt Palmer ● 974d

I'm not disputing the UK has done well on renewables, my point is that by now expanding our use of fossil fuels we are throwing that away.Incidentally electricity generation isn't the only way we emit c02 - so yes - great facts you've got there. What about all the other things that the UK could be doing but isn't?Regarding this "'The Energy White Paper 2020[84] has set within it a target to achieve net zero within the UK by 2050 in efforts to halter progress of Climate Change'."Well, here's what the goverments own climate change advisors said a few months ago"Ministers have made very little progress on implementing the UK’s net zero strategy, with “scant evidence” of delivery against high-level targets, the government’s independent climate advisers warned on Wednesday.In a wide-ranging report, the Climate Change Committee said major policy gaps existed in a range of key areas, including energy efficiency, and that tangible progress on emissions reductions in many sectors were lagging behind the government’s ambitions.“A thorough review of progress finds scant evidence of delivery against [the] headline goals . . . in most areas the likelihood of under-delivery is high,” the group said. "Not great really then?

Matt Palmer ● 974d

Mr PalmerGoogle 'fascism' and read the OUP definition.Of course, these people are not Nazis, but they are quite happy to deface other people's property and to disrupt others going about their daily life in order to foist their minority views on them.As I said originally, if they are so certain they are right, and that people would support them 'if they knew the truth' let them put it to the vote.

John Hawkes ● 974d

Mr PalmerIf you unglued yourself from the pavement you might read up on the following.From the National Grid website -'Breaking records: The UK’s renewable energy in numbers2020 was the UK’s highest year on record for renewable generation so far, and we’ve been breaking records for renewables ever since.Zero-carbon power in Britain’s electricity mix has grown from less than 20% in 2010 to nearly 50% in 2021. In contrast, power provided from fossil fuels was down to roughly 35% in 2021 compared with over 75% in 2010.In 2020 renewables accounted for more than 43.1% of the UK's total electricity generated, at 312 terawatt hours (TWh). This outstripped fossil fuels over the course of a year, for the first time in the nation’s history.2020 also saw UK have its longest run of coal-free power, with a total of 68 days between 10 April and 16 June. This is the longest coal-free period since the industrial revolution, which began in the mid-1700s!Zero-carbon generation overtook fossil fuel consumption in 11 months of the year in 2021.2021 was the second highest year for renewable generation on record, after 2020.On 5 April 2021, the UK achieved its lowest ever carbon intensity at 39 grams of CO2 per kWh, due to reduced use of fossil fuels for electricity generation. This was made possible by a 60% increase in the rate of renewable capacity installed in 2021 (compared to 2020).25 May 2022 holds the record for the maximum amount of wind power generation, at 19.9 GW'.As everyone knows, renewable energy production is unreliable, many (probably you ?) rely on gas and oil for heating, cooking and transport and it will probably take a generation to change this.We need gas and oil, and Putin has a hold over the West in this respect.That's why pro-tem we will need to exploit our own resources.And note where we stand regarding use of renewable energy.Rank Country % of renewable energy used1 Germany 12.742 UK 11.953 Sweden 10.964 Spain 10.175 Italy 8.86 Brazil 7.357 Japan 5.38 Turkey 5.259 Australia 4.7510 USA 4.32 Also the Government has recently produced a Climate Change White Paper.'The Energy White Paper 2020[84] has set within it a target to achieve net zero within the UK by 2050 in efforts to halter progress of Climate Change'.Please no more facile comments and get back to the world the rest of us live in.

John Hawkes ● 974d

hmmm ok so off I trot to dictionary.com and look up fascist"A fascist is someone who supports or promotes fascism—a system of government led by a dictator who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism, controlling all industry and commerce, and promoting nationalism and often racism."That doesn't sounds like two kids who threw a tin of soup over a plastic box to me? Or are they just keeping it all quiet for the mo and soon they're going to show their true right-wing colours.

Matt Palmer ● 974d

Mr PalmerReview what else they have done and then read again the attributes of fascism/fascists.Unreasonable actions trying to disrupt the normal life of those that disagree with them without partaking in the democratic process.

John Hawkes ● 974d

"And, their actions border on a definition of fascism"loooooooooooooolA tin of soup over a painting, not really kristalnacht was it??

Matt Palmer ● 974d

That's a good way of putting it Michael, I have friends who are both part of XR and JSO, others that are exclusive to one or the other.I don't really care, we are all working towards the same goal fundamentally, just going about it our different ways.

Matt Palmer ● 974d

"The UK is well to the front in its attempts to address climate change through its switch from fossil fuel usage to renewables."The UK gov just gave the go ahead for 100 new fossil fuel drilling sites and wants to break their manifesto pledge to introduce fracking.You cant seriously believe your first statement?

Matt Palmer ● 974d

Whatever the issue, one wonders how representative of the general public these sticky and publicity seeking protesters are. Surely in a representative democracy such as ours they should put their concerns and beliefs to the test of public opinion by standing in local and General elections.Instead they simply try to impose their minority views on others by social disruption.The UK is well to the front in its attempts to address climate change through its switch from fossil fuel usage to renewables.Stunts by self-regarding and sanctimonious middle class youths who seem to be able to live well without working are an unwelcome irritant to those struggling to get by on a daily basis.And, their actions border on a definition of fascism -'extremely authoritarian, intolerant, or oppressive ideas or behaviour:"an outright ban is just fascism"very intolerant or domineering views or practices in a particular area:"this is yet another example of health fascism in action"'

John Hawkes ● 974d

Perhaps one shouldn't view these organisations as hierarchies with a single leader but as intersecting sets with some members who are primary influencers, and where the lines defining the intersections are vague (in the mathematical sense)?Interesting how we define privilege: is it in terms of wealth of money or knowledge. It seems some teachers - presumably with a wealth of knowledge - are using food banks whereas money market traders - with a wealth of cash - perhaps only see art in terms of an investment not for any intrinsic artistic value? Perhaps I'm showing my prejudices there! :-)

Michael Ixer ● 974d

People can attend different marches etc as they like I think? I went on a JSO march last week but do not consider myself JSO.Frankly the endless picking over whether someone is or isnt part of XR is just tedious - why don't you go along to one or the other marches and ask the people there what they think?"a potential attack on them all IMO"It's not NATO Ed, just a painting covered in plastic lol. If you want to see more school visits for the masses maybe get out on the streets and campaign for more money to be spend on education?

Matt Palmer ● 974d

From memory I believe I have seen some videos of Roger, post split, under the XR logo so I think that statement Matt is incorrect.I'm sure those that carried out the attack believe from their privileged position that art does not matter to the 'masses'.If such a painting can give a spark to just a few ordinary school child on a visit then it is a potential attack on them all IMO. I would like to see more school visits for the 'masses' as you put it and if this attack puts that at risk then I'm against it.Museums, art galleries and even parks some kids growing up in London have not seen or visited. I'm a believer in levelling up not down. There are plenty of private events to attack and get publicity from.

Ed Robinson ● 974d

Does anyone find it strange that millions of people have been following a child Greta Thunberg to end fossil fuels?

Paul Beer ● 974d

I don't really understand the relevance of the question to the thread however for sake of going into it yet again.Insulate Britain and JSO are both the same thing, they are products of Roger Hallam (as was XR originally).A whole bunch of XR people have decided that XR isn't hard core enough and decided that IB/JSO is more for them, if you want to describe them as a spin off then go for it.There's a really simple clue to the difference if you look closely, one of them using the XR logo, one of them uses IB/JSO.Generally I support both but my heart really lies with XR because it's much more fun :)

Matt Palmer ● 975d

"That said, it's an odd world where someone can throw a tin of soup over a mega famous painting and be described as 'preaching to the masses' lol"I seem to remember you were saying there was no connection between XR and IB despite them sharing media channels - where do you now stand?.Are you saying that XR and JSO have no connection??

Ed Robinson ● 975d

Not sure where XR fits into this? This was a JSO action. That said, it's an odd world where someone can throw a tin of soup over a mega famous painting and be described as 'preaching to the masses' lol

Matt Palmer ● 975d

Perhaps Matt,but it seems that XR mainly consist of upper middle class people who have huge carbon footprints preaching to the masses who have smaller carbon footprints.Why do they not target those causing with the highest carbon footprints?Why are the working classes and minority groups so underrepresented in XR?

Ed Robinson ● 975d

"I think the main issue is that there may be a reluctance to put these pieces on display for the public due to increased security costs or insurance or some other excuse. Perhaps it will be private viewings only!"No no, I think the main issue is that people won't care about paintings when they're scrabbling around for food.

Matt Palmer ● 975d

Although protected by glass - I'm not sure how good the seals are etc so I assume there is still a chance of some damage even if it's small.Assuming it is an original that is:)I think the main issue is that there may be a reluctance to put these pieces on display for the public due to increased security costs or insurance or some other excuse. Perhaps it will be private viewings only!That will be a great loss to those who are interested in art, including many ordinary school kids. We need to get more kids from all backgrounds interested in art!

Ed Robinson ● 975d

That was XR yes

Matt Palmer ● 975d

I'm ambivalent about that sort of protest. They get publicist but they alienate some. I thought the Greenpeace one at the Tory party conference was great. Lots of publicity on TV, made those at the conference look a bit silly, was on target, didn't risk harming anything or anyone and wasn't illegal.The one at the Shell shareholders meeting (was that XR?) was quite good as well. 

Michael Ixer ● 975d

Get the feeling from reading your posts you all agree with Just stop oil and what they stand for but not there actions.

Paul Beer ● 975d

i am puzzled as to what constitutes a "serious protester". Is it someone who's protest no-one notices as it neither offends nor inconveniences anyone? In a world where Banksy and damien Hurst make millions from destroying their own art, throwing soup against a wellknown painting which is protected against damage seems rather a clever idea.

Michael Winstanley ● 975d

True, Matt. Or one could say no need for art on a dead planet? Anyway, it's confirmed there was no damage to the painting. I'm assuming the protesters deliberately chose a painting protected by glass so they could make their point without causing damage they knew they'd be criticised for?

Michael Ixer ● 975d

No art on a dead planet.

Matt Palmer ● 975d

The thing is people complain and say it's negative (as happens on this forum) but are there others who think "why are they doing that? Oh, yes, never thought about climate change,  it is a problem, or food poverty is unfair. Perhaps I'd better do something about those things". You probably don't see them on forums like this, it's probably younger people who tend to be more receptive to direct action protests, if only because they think politicians are doing anything? Dunno, but direct action can work as it did for the suffragettes?

Michael Ixer ● 975d

well I do try to bring an element of humour to my work, it's actually a guiding principle of XR actions that they should be fun.JSO don't have that, they are just hard-core protesters.

Matt Palmer ● 975d

Well they should care Matt because the only thing their stupidity achieved is contempt, not only for them but for their cause as well.  At least you made people smile dressed as a 🍓even though you were dubbed a fruit loop. 😸

Sue Hammond ● 975d

They don't care if it's bad publicity...

Matt Palmer ● 975d

Exactly, Sue.  

Martine Guy ● 975d

Yes, bad publicity.

Sue Hammond ● 975d

"What have the protesters gained from this?"Publicity.

Caroline Whitehead ● 975d

I agree with you, Sue.  What have the protesters gained from this? Nothing, in my opinion.  They just turn people away from their cause, rather than gain supporters.

Martine Guy ● 975d

*Thankfully it was .......

Sue Hammond ● 975d

Thank it was! However the mindset of these idiots is concerning because there are seemingly no boundaries to what they will do to attract attention. Message to these and similar half-wits: Get a bloody job and do something useful with your life!

Sue Hammond ● 975d

Waste of good soup but as Michael says, no actual harm done.

Matt Palmer ● 975d

But it is protected by glass so no real damage, but might be better to give the soup to a food bank?

Michael Ixer ● 975d