Forum Topic

I’ve started a petition - will you sign?

I think the Queen should request Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and Liz Trust to a crisis meeting to decide what needs to be done.Will you sign?https://chng.it/7WhTqFhKhBNick

Nicholas Evans ● 1255d33 Comments

Yes.

Nicholas Evans ● 1251d

According to Mr Google: Oireachtas, the parliament of the Republic of Ireland, consisting of the president, the Dail Eireann, and the Seanad Eireann, or alternatively: an annual assembly, usually in Dublin, held by Gaelic-speaking people to celebrate, exhibit, and encourage the use of the Gaelic language, traditions, and arts.The Irish system seems to work quite well?

Michael Ixer ● 1251d

A bit like a monarch then.Will be very useful info if I move to Ireland or if it comes up at a pub quiz.

Andy Pike ● 1251d

For completeness I should also include a list of the Irish President’s constitutional responsibilities:The President's powers include:- Appointment of the Taoiseach, members of the Government, judges and other officials;- Summoning and dissolving the Dáil, and convening the Oireachtas;- Signing legislation into law and/or referring Bills to the Supreme Court;- Representing the people of Ireland;- Acting as Supreme Commander of the Defence Forces. Nope, I don’t know what the Oureachtas is either.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1251d

The Irish system seems to work pretty well. The president is elected directly by the people, although there is no poll if only one candidate is nominated, which has occurred on six occasions to date. The presidency is largely a ceremonial office, but the president does exercise certain limited powers with absolute discretion.Coupled with an electoral system that is far more democratic than ours. Voting at Presidential, Dáil, Seanad, European and local elections is by secret ballot on the principle of proportional representation (PR) in multi-seat constituencies (Ireland is a single constituency at a Presidential election), each elector having a single transferable vote (STV).Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1251d

Aren't governor generals appointed to represent the authority of the crown, that is, the British monarchy, they're not in a democratically elected position? I was thinking more of a President with the authority to guide the legislative, headed by the PM, into taking action when needed or "holding the fort" when the legislature is absent?

Michael Ixer ● 1252d

A head of state, displacing a monarch, does not have to be an ex politician. In the Commonwealth, heads of state, as governors general etc, are quite frequently drawn from the professions - surgeons, scientists, clergymen, soldiers, the law - people of distinction and capable of commanding popular respect. The idea is to embody the state. I think the Brits could live with that. Also, such people would not bring with them a claque of hangers-on, such as Britain's (over)extended Royal Family

Alexander MacLeod ● 1252d

Ivonne I was thinking of a president replacing the monarch.  Possibly worse President Boris and PM Liz ... burgh!

Michael Ixer ● 1252d

Hello Michael,"Although at heart I believe monarchs are an anachronism in twenty first century democracies I'm not sure given recent election and referendum results in the UK (and elsewhere) I want to change the status quo."As you know, I am a very pro-monarchy as Head of State.  You have described brilliantly the problems you get when a person is Prime Minister/President as well as Head of State.....  No, no, no.....You mention Boris, can you imagine Liz Truss???  I expect Boris is maneuvering to come back as PM......

Ivonne Holliday ● 1252d

Although at heart I believe monarchs are an anachronism in twenty first century democracies I'm not sure given recent election and referendum results in the UK (and elsewhere) I want to change the status quo. Just image: President Boris of the UK - although that would probably be the end of the UK; revise that to President Boris of England?But, back to the topic. It's been pointed out in social media that if Liz Truss wins the PM role she'll be the first PM who may not have support of a majority of the MPs in the parliamentary Tory party. Many would like to see a new general election to validate or reject her mandate. That seems unlikely given the current government's majority unless she upsets too many of her own MPs; could we then see the grey suits of the 1922 committee moving against her? Who knows what might happen then?

Michael Ixer ● 1253d

Michael yes, agree with you totally. What use is a monarch if she/he has no function?Many thanks to the 131 people who have signed the petition so far.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1253d

Yes you are probably right. But also, Nick appears to have identified a further weakness in the current system, which abolishing the monarchy would solve. At the same time we could write down a sensible constitution.

Michael Winstanley ● 1253d

Nick: It could be that in their encrypted weekly phone calls the Queen has asked Boris to "do something" but has been ignored. That would be par for the Johnson course, but we shall never know the details. By the way, Rory Stewart in today's Guardian is warning that Johnson hopes to stage a Berlusconi-style comeback, on the assumption that the Conservative Party, having tasted the delights of a Truss premiership, will admit they made a blunder in sacking him.I still think pressing for a general election is the preferred way ahead.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1254d

Alexander - as we’ve no formal written constitution she can justify almost anything under precedent. Surely during a serious crisis a king or queen have summoned the PM and told him/her to do something,Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1254d

Nick: Your well-meaning idea is constitutionally up the creek. Better to campaign for the demise of this hopeless Tory power-crowd via a general election. That's the British way.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1254d

Even if the petition were relatively successful, it will not gather many votes before the new PM takes office.Constitutionally it's wrong too.However, though it isn't the right approach, I am lost as to suggest what is - twiddling one's thumbs certainly isn't and that's what we are currently getting from the so-called government.An object lesson in how a parliamentary democracy works. Whilst parliament is not sitting, there is no democracy, simply a dictatorship. Thus it is in the interests of a dictator in the UK to limit parliament's involvement and to limit the times when parliament sits. We've seen this from th current government before (Johnson's illegal proroguing of parliament) but on this occasion it appears to be legal, if not desirable.

Michael Winstanley ● 1254d

It won't get debated as it's a change.org petition. Only petitions set up and accepted on the official government petition.uk site get debated when they reach 100,000 signatures - then nothing happens anyway.

Michael Ixer ● 1254d

Of course the Queen is not a celebrity character so what has that got to do with anything?  None of us know what her political opinions are but we do know that for 70 years she hasn't voiced them publicly so it is very unlikely she would do something now that could involve her in anything political, even by implication.However if Nick gets 100,000 signatures it could be debated in Parliament.  He's already collected 3 or 4 here so that's a start ...

Sue Hammond ● 1254d

I'd like to imagine a conversation over the Queen's encrypted phone to Johnson's mobile "Boris, WTF you doing on holiday again, the countries going to the dogs and you're still PM until 5t September. Get it sorted you pleb!" D oubt it'll happen though but I suspect the first meeting with the Queen for the new PM might be worth metamorphosing into a fly for; where's Kafka when you need him ...

Michael Ixer ● 1254d

Sue, in your words:"She will never actively promote a petition."The Queen is not a celebrity character.That is not to say that she will sit back and watch while doing nothing.  We may never know what she does or will do, but wait with her arms folded, somehow I do not think so.  Thankfully, she has a greater sense of responsibility and duty than the clowns now in government.  Not much hope with the new one, sadly.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1254d

If "nobody expects her to do so" you better have a word with Nick because he obviously does lol.

Sue Hammond ● 1254d

Nobody expects her to do so, Sue.But if many people do sign the petition she will probably do something in the style she usually does.  I do not think she will promote the petition, but she does not want angry subjects which could easily promote civil disobedience if not possibly become anarchy.I think she will consider a sizeable petition from her subjects rather closely.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1254d

Advice is one thing Ivonne, actively promoting a petition is very different and I do not think the Queen would deviate from what she has done, or rather not done, throughout her entire reign.

Sue Hammond ● 1254d

… and a chaotic justice system with “justice” taking years.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1254d

Sue, we are all aware of this.  The Queen, however, does provide advice as and when necessary.Also, desperate measures at desperate times?Let us see (and not in order of priority): cost of living crisis, sewage in our rivers and seas, energy crisis, strikes left-right-and-centre, climate change, NHS crisis, police crisis (meaning not enough police officers), crimes that go unsolved, missing government, to name but a few things.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1254d

Zero chance of success because the Queen is staunchly apolitical, as the Sovereign should be. Hypothetically if Charles was in the top job it could have a very slim chance of success because he loves to meddle in politics, hopefully though he will continue to be an ineffectual pita for some years yet.

Sue Hammond ● 1254d

Signed!!This is not normally her role, but desperate measures in desperate times!I just cannot believe this government is doing nothing at all!  But I suppose, they believe their holidays are paramount and, due to the leadership contest, they prefer to leave everything for the new leader.  Unacceptable is a very mild word to use in this case!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1255d

Michael - we pick up the tab for everything. Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1255d

Ok, Nick. I'll add my signature, I suppose petitioning the Queen/King is an old tradition?Those palaces must use a lot of energy so perhaps she has an interest in this - or does the taxpayer pick up the tab for her energy bills?

Michael Ixer ● 1255d

Michael - I agree. But she could set a precedent. If enough people sign it would put pressure on Johnson et al to do something.Blimey, I’ve got three signatures already!Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1255d

Nick. I agree with your sentiments but I think Jo is correct, the monarchy is unlikely to get involved. In any case, the Queen is usually advised by the Prime Minister (as in the prorogation debacle); it would seem Johnson is unlikely to give advice for the Queen to call the meeting?Of course, this is a limitation with a Constitutional Monarchy, there's no separate executive arm that can act independently; in most democratic Republics there'd be a president separate from the legislative part of government to spur the legislators into action; well, that's the theory!

Michael Ixer ● 1255d

It’s a crisis. She’s our Head of State. She doesn’t have to participate in the meeting. She can request a meeting surely - it’s called “Her Majesty’s Government” isn’t it?Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1255d

Fair play to you Nick. You're taking more action than the government!Personally, I don't think the Queen should or would be involved in directing policy/politics and she famously distances herself from it, apart from the necessary protocols obviously.The government shouldn't need the Queen to do this but they definitely need to take some action instead of watching the world burn and preparing their own marshmallows for toasting on the flames.

Jo Amadi ● 1255d