Forum Topic

Who has been running the economy since 2010?

Nadhim Zahawi endorses Liz Truss:-“Liz will overturn stale economic orthodoxy and run our economy in a Conservative way”(Telegraph yesterday)

David Ainsworth ● 1281d22 Comments

So the NCSC has flagged up a security problem with the process for selecting the next Tory party leader:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62402642Does it really matter, many of us think both candidates are unsuitable, the hackers might make the best choice? Now if the Russians or Chinese, or their criminal associates hacked the system to insert a new, extra, candidate as the winner it might be amusing to see Jeremy Corbyn announced as leader of the Conservative party. (My joke for the day in case anyone from GCHQ is monitoring this site.) :-)

Michael Ixer ● 1279d

Well, apparently different pay rates between regions is no longer one of Ms Truss's policies; she said it was misrepresented in spite of Mr Rees Mogg's valiant attempts to explain it to us. Her fellow Conservatives obviously weren't convinced. Can we expect more transient policies if Ms Truss wins the leadership contest? Still at least we now know what Mr Mogg's views are. Someone sent me a Tweet image commenting on an idea of age separation she had for the internet: two internets, one for kids below a certain age, the other for adults. Nice idea but I'd like to see the RFC to make it work! Most of the kids I know would hack it while their parents were watching East Ender's :-)

Michael Ixer ● 1280d

"Just remember "levelling up" is just a meaningless slogan, it's not a policy or activity."It reminds me of "hardworking families".Wikipedia:-"The phrase "hardworking families" or "working families" is an example of a glittering generality in contemporary political discourse. It is used in the politics of the United Kingdom and of the United States"

David Ainsworth ● 1280d

J R-M seemed to be saying that those moved from London to "up north" would keep their current salaries but those recruited locally would be paid a (presumably lower) rate based on regional incomes. Obviously, this Tory government struggles with their concept of levelling up, as Raab proved when he sneered at Rayner for going to Glyndebourne (and proved he didn't know the plot of 'Figaro).Just remember "levelling up" is just a meaningless slogan, it's not a policy or activity.

Michael Ixer ● 1280d

I should think a pole tax episode could be likely if Truss continues with her plans of cutting salaries for civil servants "up north"........

Ivonne Holliday ● 1281d

"Labour has moved quite far to the right - I can not see how they can change position again under the current Labour leader and expect the public to believe them. Two years is very little time.IF the Tories can get through the next two years without a poll tax episode then I think they would win the next election."As the two parties are that close politically now, I suppose  that there could be a chance of a coalition if there is a hung parliament. The Truss/Starmer agreement?

David Ainsworth ● 1281d

Ed. I think the terms still have meaning one might question their relevance given current mapping of policies and attitudes. Obviously corruption (lying to parliament, breaking laws) isn't a left/right issue, and I'm not sure that "green" issues need be, although the experience is that extreme right wingers (Trump, Farage?) seem more likely to be climate sceptics. Anyway the terms are definitely meaningless if we boil the planet!

Michael Ixer ● 1281d

I think we can definitely agree on that Matt."If the centre and left of centre vote is split..."Michael I think these are now meaningless terms IMO.The Johnson government was to the left of the Labour party on some issues - that could increase under new Conservative Leadership. The Labour party is stuck playing draughts while the Tories can play Chess.Labour has moved quite far to the right - I can not see how they can change position again under the current Labour leader and expect the public to believe them. Two years is very little time.IF the Tories can get through the next two years without a poll tax episode then I think they would win the next election.

Ed Robinson ● 1281d

I think the LibDems and DUP have to take some responsibility for colluding with the Tories at various times. Given the government's current majority I'm not sure how effective any opposition can be, particularly given internal disagreements between the centre left and far left.If the centre and left of centre vote is split between the LibDems, Labour and Greens then we'll have another decade of Tory governments. 

Michael Ixer ● 1281d

Perhaps we can just agree that the Tories have made a right royal mess of it and Labour have been useless in opposition?

Matt Palmer ● 1281d

Matt,I didn't say they were equally responsible. There was a broad agreement on the economic policies during much of the time between the two parties.Labour even abstained on some of the legislation.You seem to imply that opposition is irrelevant in our parliamentary democracy, it isn't.Abstaining and not strongly opposing gives the government an easier time. A good opposition can cause the government to change or moderate their course.During New Labour's first year they kept to the previous government's spending limits even though Ken Clark said he wouldn't as the economy had grown.Policies and voting records count anything else is just wishful thinking.I'm not a football fan but Marcus Rashford has proved that opposition matters!

Ed Robinson ● 1281d

I disagree.No matter what an opposition party says when out of power you cannot be certain of what they would do when in power.How anyone can actually claim that labour are somehow equally responsible for the current economic failure when they havent been in power for 12 years is a total mystery to me.To be clear, i am not a labour voter.

Matt Palmer ● 1281d

Matt,I disagree. You need to look at how the government were opposed. How the opposition voted, what alternative policies were proposed etc.Sorry but there was general agreement to cut spending by both parties during much of the period.https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/labour-will-keep-austerity-says-miliband-1545352

Ed Robinson ● 1281d

The tories have been in power 12 years. They own this disaster, speculation on what labour would or would not have done is irrelevant as we can never know.Unless you have access to the multiverse of course.

Matt Palmer ● 1281d

"Don't you get bored of the whataboutism at all Ed?"No, besides red or blue, if the policies are the same are they not both Tories?

Ed Robinson ● 1281d

Perhaps someone told them honesty is a good strategy?

Michael Ixer ● 1281d

Are they now saying that for 12 years the conservatives have messed the economy?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1281d

It's also odd that (yet again) a thread about the Tories is turned into a thread about Labour by Ed.Don't you get bored of the whataboutism at all Ed?

Matt Palmer ● 1281d

It is odd that the Conservatives have ditched the low growth strategy sine Johnson yet Labour are still clinging to it.There wasn't a huge difference (excl Corbyn years) between Labour & the various Conservative governments since 2010.On foreign policy as well as domestic rights there is no difference either.

Ed Robinson ● 1281d

Blinded by power or the dream of it.

Philippa Bond ● 1281d

collective amnesia all round?

Matt Palmer ● 1281d

And Mirror today:-"In an attack on his own party's record, he [Sunak] said his rival Liz Truss was "sticking with the failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years" with her tax plans."

David Ainsworth ● 1281d