Forum Topic

The debates

Last night was the first debate that I watched and turned it off after 10 minutes - I could not stand the bickering, it was as if they were envious teenagers all trying to outsmart each other but looking really pathetic!What a sad state of affairs we are in by watching five individuals trying to become PMs and none of them had a positive view or something positive to say.  It was all wrong and I have come to the conclusion that none of them, except perhaps Tugendhat, are worthy of a porter's apprentice job.God help us if Truss gets the job!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1063d36 Comments

Just seen this on BBC News: A whips' office spokesperson has since confirmed in a statement that Ellwood has had the whip "temporarily unsuspended" to ensure the office's "neutrality in the leadership contest cannot be questioned".https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62232038I'd better take back my comment about gerrymandering! Perhaps the whips office read my post :-)

Michael Ixer ● 1061d

@Michael IxerBelieve it or not I agree with you about having a GE.  I wish Boris had called one.

Sue Hammond ● 1062d

It is 2022, MP's unofficially have to pair up when they can not vote in person makes a non-sense of our democracy.The public get robbed of the MP's voting record or have to foot the bill for them returning on short notice.If you want an antiquated system then you just have to accept these things.From 2009 - "Mandelson has no intention to intervene despite Tory MP's call for inquiry into sale of London title to former KGB officer"https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/jan/22/evening-standard-peter-mandelson

Ed Robinson ● 1062d

And it is going to depend on mostly the same 200k Tory party members who gave us Johnson in 2019. They get another chance to mess up.

David Ainsworth ● 1062d

Sue, I agree choosing a new PM is very important. (I don't really care if the Tories want Johnson as there party leader, he's just not wanted as PM - but I know the system doesn't work like that.) That's why many of us would like another general election to validate the selection given the mediocre nature of the candidates that will finally selected by around 1%, or possibly less, of the electorate (difficult to say as it's secretive about its membership statistics  - one wonders why).

Michael Ixer ● 1062d

"A spokesperson for the whips office said, “Tobias Ellwood MP has lost the Conservative Party whip following his failure to vote in support of the government in the confidence vote last night.”However Boris Johnson “dragged his feet for days” when it came to removing the whip from his much loyal colleague  Chris Pincher.In a statement, Ellwood, chairman of the influential Defence Select Committee said, “Following my meeting yesterday with the President of Moldova, I was unable to secure return travel due to unprecedented disruption both here and in the UK.“I am very sorry to lose the whip but will now continue my meetings in Ukraine promoting the prime minister’s efforts here and specifically seeking to secure the reopening of Odesa port – so vital grain exports can recommence.”"Ellwood is apparently a reservist with 77th Brigade (look them up), an unconventional outfit. It is part of "The 6th (UK) Division [which] delivers cyber, electronic warfare, information operations and unconventional capabilities designed for warfighting and for operations conducted below the threshold of war.Additionally, it enables other Field Army Formations, Headquarters Allied Rapid Reaction Corps and the Strategic Joint Force Headquarters to achieve Information Advantage and a disruptive edge."Probably he couldn't tell Johnson much about his trip (not with Johnson's alleged links).

David Ainsworth ● 1062d

"one MP’s mother died on the morning of the vote and still attended and voted"You gotta admire her spirit, but still I'd imagine that sort of resolute and death-defying behaviour is only expected of peers.

David Ainsworth ● 1062d

@Michael IxerI would say choosing a new leader and PM is a very important matter not just for the Party, but indeed for the country, and there was no immediate urgency for his Moldova trip. Delaying it for few days or a week at the most and he could have fulfilled his duty to Parliament.

Sue Hammond ● 1062d

Yes, Sue.  Rules are rules, apparently for some.As I mentioned in my previous post, I say this because breaking the Ministerial Code or lying to Parliament and the Queen appear to apply to others, not the current PM.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1062d

"Other Conservative MPs cancelled foreign trips, left poorly relatives and one MP’s mother died on the morning of the vote and still attended and voted"This says much more about them than it does it about Tobias Elwood!

Michael Winstanley ● 1062d

Just shows the Tories' priorities, no care for people or things other than their party; with their majority they were hardly likely to miss a handful of votes. Given what you say, Sue, sounds like, as I noted earlier, he thought they were all mediocre candidates and the meetings he had arranged on his trip were more important. Sounds like his personal priorities were right!

Michael Ixer ● 1062d

He was in Moldova but went there knowing he would be expected to vote so he could and should have delayed his trip for a few days. From the Independent:"But it is understood Mr Ellwood was reminded that the confidence vote was taking place on Monday evening in the Commons and informed of the repercussions if he failed to attend.A Tory source added: “Other Conservative MPs cancelled foreign trips, left poorly relatives and one MP’s mother died on the morning of the vote and still attended and voted.”

Sue Hammond ● 1062d

Perhaps, Sue.But it is very surprising, to say something, that these rules are implemented without an ounce of consideration.But, breaking the Ministerial Code is of no importance and therefore it is going to be change to someone's convenience.One rule for some us and different for the rest?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1062d

It is indeed Michael W. Horrible lot one and all.

Lucille Grant ● 1062d

According to Sky News he was in Moldova and could not get back for the vote because of transport disruption. Seems like someone in the whips' or cabinet offices being a bit vindictive tbh. Though it is that kind of party isn't it.

Michael Winstanley ● 1062d

Oops no idea why the post was duplicated.

Sue Hammond ● 1062d

All MPs know the likely consequences of not supporting their party in a confidence vote; Ellwood was being deliberately provocative and paid the price.

Sue Hammond ● 1062d

All MPs know the likely consequences of not supporting their party in a confidence vote; Ellwood was being deliberately provocative and paid the price.

Sue Hammond ● 1062d

Interesting that Ellwood won't be able to vote anymore in the leadership election as he's had the whip removed. Ok, he didn't turn up to show his confidence in the government but he seems to be travelling to meetings in Moldova and, now, Ukraine. Perhaps he should have made a pairing arrangement but perhaps logistics weren't that easy? Is it another example of Tory attempts at gerrymandering, or perhaps he doesn't really care as all the candidates are mediocre plus he's lost confidence in the government and has better things to do? 

Michael Ixer ● 1062d

The video editors have already been busy …https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1549346192005517314?t=E1_tfkZCXT49FvRNGOHgEA&s=19

Michael Ixer ● 1062d

I agree. We have no vote so what's the point of the debates.

Maxine Campbell ● 1063d

Rhere's always a fridge...

Maxine Campbell ● 1063d

Apparently Tory HQ thought it would be a good idea for the country to get to know the candidates but it's rumoured Tory HQ then wanted Sunak and Truss to pull out because they were worried that the country would get to know the candidates. 

Michael Ixer ● 1063d

Still, at last they agreed on on thing: none would offer a government job to Johnson. Something I would say is the one thing I'd agree with them all. 

Michael Ixer ● 1063d

Just now in the BBC's rolling news:"Tom Tugendhat has said he will not withdraw from the Tory leadership race, despite trailing behind rivals ahead of tonight's vote by MPs.He told fellow Conservative MPs "some colleagues have suggested that I should step aside, that I should fall in behind someone else, that I've run a good campaign and can leave with my head held high"."Some have suggested I could leave with a job as well," he said, but insisted "it is not for me to make that decision - it is for you"."Were I to withdraw now then somebody else would be eliminated tonight without the opportunity to make their case further.”He also condemned what he saw as the contest's "infighting, the sniping, the blue on blue, the attacks and the smears". "We do not need this, now or ever."100% correct in every count. Unfortunately, I have a feeling he will probably not survive tonight's vote.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1063d

I never understood why they were having debates on TV in front of the public in the first place. Unless it was to promote the sham that somehow the public is making a choice. The principle decision is being made by Conservative MP's, not the public. They choose 2, from which the (quite non-representative) party membership picks the winner. It is wise of them, although a little late in the day, to cotton on that they do themselves no good havving their petty squabbles in front of the broader electorate.

Michael Winstanley ● 1063d

"Does it mean if, either of them become PM, and things get difficult or personal, they'll stay at home?????"Or hide in the fridge, like Johnson?Actually that sounds like an awfully good idea today.

David Ainsworth ● 1063d

All five of them said last night that they would not call a general election. They claim they have a “mandate” and would follow the 2019 manifesto. You know, the one they have all ignored up till now, and virulently disagree on how it should be followed, all espousing different policies.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1063d

I thought there was a certain entertainment value watching them snipe at each other: true reality TV? Very useful for Sir Kier and his team?

Michael Ixer ● 1063d

No, it cannot be true!Does it mean if, either of them become PM, and things get difficult or personal, they'll stay at home?????I just hope the new PM announces a general election.  It is the only way out of this huge embarrassment - since 2016!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1063d

And now Sky have announced that the third debate has been cancelled, since Sunak and Truss have pulled out, apparently because it got too personal. If they couldn't stand the heat they shouldn't have been in the kitchen: what a pair of wimps!  A huge disappointment (not)!

Richard Carter ● 1063d

If Putin was watching for his light entertainment he must have found it very encouraging. Still at least he now knows Tom was in the army …

Michael Ixer ● 1063d

Underwhelming

Andy Pike ● 1063d

I hope other countries weren't watching.  It's embarrassing.

Judy Allen ● 1063d

No, I shan't forget.He did mention it once, at least.  Something like Badenoch telling him he had never held a government office and he did reply he had been in the army....Not long after, I switched off.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1063d

Never forget (because he certainly won't allow you to) that Tugenhat WAS IN THE ARMY!

Richard Carter ● 1063d