Forum Topic

Filthy Putney High Street footpaths

With the extended dry spell Putney High Street now looks very much like a 3rd. world slum with disgustingly filthy footpaths. This has been the case for weeks now which is more than enough time for Wandsworth or Positively Putney to react and get it cleaned.Or are we supposed to find this good enough for us?.Hello Harare,hello Mumbai, Hello Soweto - Goodbye Putney but preferably goodbye Positively Putney!!

Timothy Horgan ● 1065d57 Comments

David, the river isn't Putney High Street, it's about dirty pavements. So Nick still was talking about Putney,not Rwanda, Paris.

Barbara Stevens ● 1053d

"It's about Putney High street, your the one Philippa that ends up in some distance location.  This is Putney Forum. If you don't live here and walk down it everyday.  Why are you joining in the conversation. All Councils are different. Don't tell me to keep up. You twist every thread on here, just so you can talk about yourself."You didn't react in such a personal manner to this, Ms Stevens:-From:- Nick GullifordDate/Time: 16/07/22 12:32:00"I pick up a lot of rubbish on the common and side streets as I walk. We all need to take responsibility. I can’t bare walking past coffee cups as an example.However I agree Timothy the pavements can look bad.In Wimbledon they have litter monitors that do on spot fines and they have live cameras on their chests. I would like to see that bought in.One thing I can’t stand is all the plastic bottles around the rowing clubs and whilst they might not all be from the rowers. I cannot stand how the majority of them walk one inch past them without picking them up. A lot of them seem more interested in what they look like!"Commons, side streets, rowing clubs, all mentioned. No talk of a twisted thread then.

David Ainsworth ● 1053d

It's about Putney High street, your the one Philippa that ends up in some distance location.  This is Putney Forum. If you don't live here and walk down it everyday.  Why are you joining in the conversation. All Councils are different. Don't tell me to keep up. You twist every thread on here, just so you can talk about yourself.

Barbara Stevens ● 1053d

Barbara - Keep up - it's a part of the thread if you read it.  It's all a part of the problem.

Philippa Bond ● 1053d

Philippa, what has this to do with pavements, or a dirty High Street. The Rowing Clubs start much further down the LRR.

Barbara Stevens ● 1053d

Why not contact Surfers Against Sewage or plasticfreewandsworth@g.mail.com to see if you can muster up some more enthusiasm amongst the rowing clubs.  It does rather give them a bad name trashing their neighbourhood with something that gets into the river and pollutes those and the oceans.

Philippa Bond ● 1053d

So you've never noticed that there are pubs who still have workers who sweep up all the cigarette ends outside their premises first thing in the morning?  Cigarette ends are very poisonous and together with all the other chemicals in the run off from roads are poisoning our rivers.There IS a big problem with the way people just step over litter and split rubbish bags including their own without taking any responsibility and cleaning up after themselves.Have you ever joined a community litter-pick? It wasn't that long ago that the local MP was litter picking down by the river and the previous editor of this website used to spend time litter-picking in a group too.The amount of time that people spend jetwashing their cars and patios is ridiculous and a complete waste of water.  A patio isn't generally silk carpeted or an indoor space and neither is a pavement.  It is somewhere you walk in outdoor shoes or boots. There must be bathsful of water being used just to wash a small patio if my neighbour who spent the whole of a Saturday doing a very small one is anything to go by.Kigali is of course topical and is relevant and if the article had been read you might have learnt something.Also if you watched the weather forecasts you might also learn where the weather is coming from.Dogs should have their DNA taken when they are chipped which they have to be by law.FPNs can be issued for spitting, littering, dropping cigarette ends and not cleaning up after your dog.

Philippa Bond ● 1056d

I agree, Barbara, comparison with Kigali is as irrelevant as looking back to some golden age when proud shopkeepers lent on their brooms outside their shops. Dirty pavements need to be mechanically washed. Of course picking up litter is a personal responsibility but its unrealistic to expect individuals to clean PHS pavements.

Jane Carter ● 1056d

Problem is the Putney BID don't listen to residents, we don't pay their levy. Not part of their exclusive club... Instead we have to pay 4 figure Council Tax. Bid members invariably live outside LBW, eg Russell Cooke, all banks, all the big players..... Waitrose.. Etc  we shop local but get no benefit... Little choiceBut to tread their filthy pavements...

Penelope Becker ● 1057d

What has Rwanda got to do with Putney,  nobody whats to go there either. People walk in a dream across the roads oblivious to traffic driving out or coming into them. The High Street is a mess with so many closed shops. An Ice Cream shop so expensive, you hardly see anybody in it. Why should shop owners clean the floor outside on the pavements, it's the pedestrians who make the mess. They need a machine to go on the pavements.

Barbara Stevens ● 1058d

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/25/623114826/the-dark-side-of-keeping-the-streets-clean-in-rwanda-s-capital

Philippa Bond ● 1058d

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/about-us/performance/reservoir-levels-and-rainfall-figures

Philippa Bond ● 1058d

Did we complain about the old paving slabs not that I remember. It's obviously the new ones that attract the stains.

Barbara Stevens ● 1058d

Council leader 1979 - 83.Started the privatisation of services at Wandsworth. Remember one famous strike meeting when the dust men held up banners saying "we'll not fall to Chopes chopper"But of course they did.

Andy Pike ● 1058d

https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/climate-change/surface-water/sustainable-drainage-london#acc-i-44922

Philippa Bond ● 1058d

BTW if you read the posts you will see I never suggested local residents should clean PHS although I am not the only person to comment that that is exactly what shopkeepers used to do in the past.  There are also lots of old photos of shopkeepers in the past leaning on their brooms in front of their shops.  They obviously weren't embarrassed or felt it beneath them to be seen with a broom.  What is the history of Business rates?I did point out that it may not continue to be as successful as you would imagine and you could be making a rod for your own backs.

Philippa Bond ● 1058d

That’s a good idea.

Jane Carter ● 1058d

Bloody hell! Before my time - I had never realised that the idiot Chope (defends every englishman's inalienable right to upskirt) - who encapsulates everything which is wrong with the parliamentary Tory party, was ex-Wandsworth council.  What a legacy!

Michael Winstanley ● 1059d

No, I don't think so.  Too many people's first thought is of how offload a problem on to someone else to sort out.I'm surprised we don't already have a hosepipe ban. I'm sure we've already been asked to be careful many people are already not watering their lawns or washing their cars. From the number of continuous hours a neighbour spent jetwashing a patio those should be included.  It takes an awful lot of rain to bring the levels in reservoirs back up presuming they were up to start with compared to the garden getting a good soak.  There are residents in Oxfordshire right now complaining that they are threatened with another reservoir because of that lot in London.

Philippa Bond ● 1059d

Perhaps washing the streets is something positively Putney could could do with their funds  to make a positive impact.

Andy Pike ● 1059d

Yes residents should water trees that are struggling but I think most of us could work out how to carry water from our homes to the trees. That is quite different to expecting local residents to clean the filthy pavements in the high street. Surely this is a council responsibility, not  local residential streets but main thoroughfares like PHS.

Jane Carter ● 1059d

LOL  That was several days ago before I went down with Covid so I wasn't following the thread but basically it was because of Wandsworth's long-term desire to spend less on services provided by the state.  Only there is just so far you can go.I think Andy has put his point of view well and shown the complications that if a service is added to one part of the borough.  With the years we have had of austerity there are a lot of others problems created by that now as well as new ones and if some of those are improved eg the major homelessness problem hopefully other things will also start to improve.

Philippa Bond ● 1059d

Or nothing will change without action from residents!  A clean screw top plastic milk bottle is a great way to take an emergency amount of water to trees and plants that you can see are struggling.

Philippa Bond ● 1059d

I was thinking how very bad the High Street looks when I walked down from the station this afternoon - the filthy pavements, the half hearted, underplanted displays courtesy of Positively Putney, parched through lack of water...Nothing will change without pressure from residents! As suggested before, those with concerns about such matters should write to our MP Fleur Anderson at fleur.anderson.mp@parliament.uk

Miles Thompson ● 1059d

I was thinking how very bad the High Street looks when I walked down from the station this afternoon - the filthy pavements, the half hearted, underplanted displays courtesy of Positively Putney, parched through lack of water...Nothing will change without pressure from residents! As suggested before, those with concerns about such matters should write to our MP Fleur Anderson at fleur.anderson.mp@parliament.uk

Miles Thompson ● 1059d

https://www.thames21.org.uk/suds-in-london/I think we'd all like to have clean streets but even when there are plenty of officers (usually sub-contractors nowadays) who of course cost everyone how can a line be drawn between the taking of responsibility both personal and commercial for making the mess in the first place of what our our shared spaces; and that desire for clean and enjoyable spaces? Sub-contractors always need management both from within their own organisation and from the organisation employing them. How do you make sure that the provision of a cleaning service doesn't actually encourage more carelessness, litter and dumping?  Bins are never large enough.  Somebody will always try and put someone too big in them whether they are true street litter bins or skips.

Philippa Bond ● 1059d

Philippa, what has that to with your claim that all forum members want to see a rollback of the state?

Jane Carter ● 1059d

Wandsworth for so long has been described as the Tory's flagship borough with ex Council chief now an MP  Christopher Chope famous for filibustering and other ignorant arrogant and expensive parliamentary time-wasting (up-skirting) as well as being one of the group of exceedingly far right members of free-marketers in the current cabinet and one who voted against the Climate Change Act:https://theecologist.org/2018/nov/09/why-lilley-voted-against-climate-action

Philippa Bond ● 1059d

Andy: If you don't like "negative", how about "cynical"?

Alexander MacLeod ● 1059d

Andy one Borough, Barking :) designates an protective area with a history of issues and fines people if they can not show they have the means for clearing up after their dog.If laws are not enforced I much rather we be honest and scrap them altogether and only bring new laws in where it can be shown that they will be enforced."The London borough where you could get fined by a dog warden - even if your pet hasn't done a poo"https://www.mylondon.news/news/north-london-news/london-borough-you-could-fined-19086526

Ed Robinson ● 1059d

The only answer really to the dog mess is for someone in authority ( street warden) to witness the deed  even if you had hundreds of them the likelihood of actually being there when it happens woukd be very low.If its cleaning dog mess you could spend all morning polishing the pavements but if the dog craps in the afternoon.....I fear Ed it's another one of those transgressions that you simply would never have enough people to enforce.Yes the bye law says there is a fine  but you need a small army to enforce it  or good intelligence from the public for regular transgressions.

Andy Pike ● 1059d

Clearly additional income is needed to pay for extra services.A news site claims Wandsworth had just 7 fines for dog fouling in the last 5 years.According to WBC website you can be fined up to £2,500. Although I suspect the odds of winning the lottery are slightly more!You can not go a few yards on any pavement within the borough without coming across it. Kids particularly end up stepping it it walking to and from school.Other countries manage to enforce these laws - why not the UK - why not Wandsworth?https://www.mylondon.news/news/london-boroughs-dog-poo-fines-23383326

Ed Robinson ● 1060d

Not sure it's a negative attitude. It's an attitude borne out of many years working for the local authority and many evenings at public meetings having residents question why  what and where their money is being spent.Some of the folk asking the most difficult questions include Putneys'finest'

Andy Pike ● 1060d

A case could be made for suggesting that negative attitudes such as yours ensure that nothing ever happens. Is that the moral for PHS?

Alexander MacLeod ● 1060d

Ok how do you ensure then that only the people of Putney ( or the 10 or so who mention it on here) pay for it. As surely someone living in Tooting would want Tooting high st done if they were paying. Or wandsworth or Balham or......

Andy Pike ● 1060d

Jane, agreed. I don't recall saying I wanted to roll back regulation, although I'd like to see it improved and more relevant in some areas. Look at the cladding crisis caused by trying to reduce regulations and poorly thought through legislation. 

Michael Ixer ● 1060d

Andy: Why not start with PHS? That is what people on this Forum are complaining about. It IS filthy and a disgrace to the area. Surely a borough responsibility.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1060d

But I thought everyone here had voted for a roll-back of the state. That’s totally unfair, Philippa.. you are not the only one here who realises that if we want better public services we can’t roll back the state. The  Badenoch supporters just shout louder

Jane Carter ● 1060d

Would this washing of the streets apply boroughwide ? Just putney high street,? Roads leading off Putney high street? All sidestreets? Without increasing Council tax which services would be cut to fund it? Would mopping the streets with a dirty rag be a vote winner for any particular group?

Andy Pike ● 1060d

I didn't vote for a "rollback of the state". Where did you get that presumptuous idea?!!!

Alexander MacLeod ● 1060d

But I thought everyone here had voted for a roll-back of the state.  We already have plenty of problems eg the homeless, the lack of carers and care for the elderly, knife crime etc,  the climate emergency and pollution.  Are you putting this before all of that? Unfortunately too our rivers are being polluted by the poisonous run off from our roads.

Philippa Bond ● 1060d

Barbara: The point I am making is that pavement washing in Paris etc is a regular, routine occurrence. They have machines that come out to do the washing around 7 am in my experience. I used to go for a café-cognac most mornings around 8-30 am in the 8th district by which time the washing had been done. What I find odd is that here in Putney each Wednesday at around 9 am a street cleaning machine drives past and gives the street a sweep, but without water. A lot of the time they are just moving one heap of leaves etc to the other side of the street.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1060d

Alexander, after they put the new plant pots across the road to TKMAX I rang the Council and they started cleaning the floor outside Subway and the few other shops there as there was a yellow gunk all over the floor so it can be done, just pick up the phone.

Barbara Stevens ● 1060d

Thank God someone has been to Paris and seen pavements actually being washed. But I notice no-one has asked our Council to try the idea. Why not? Back to my basic thought: If a thing is dirty, wash it. If you don't agree, don't complain! Meanwhile, shuffle through the cardboard and plastic discards, and avert your eyes from the grime! By the way, they wash streets in New York and German cities.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1061d

Martine. Interestingly, some of the old flats in central Paris have courtyards surrounded by hight walls. A late relative of my wife kept a Fiat 500 in one just along from Saint Michel. Back in the 1980s I was driven around Paris by another elderly friend who seemed to manage to keep a car in Paris - that's when I learnt why French cars have plastic bumpers not nice shiny crome one's :-)

Michael Ixer ● 1061d

Shopowners always used to be seen with a brush outside their establishments in the morning sweeping.  It is rarely seen nowadays.  I suppose they think that because they pay Business Rates they don't need to participate, play their part to make the environment better and can depend on the Councils to do everything.  I can just hear the "I pay enough in Business Rates".  I don't know about the type of paving and greasy foods but I have definitely noticed that areas of paving where lorries and vans eg where there are double yellows regularly pull off onto the pavement seem to crack and crumble like the digestives in the bottom of a packet.We also need to better separate our rain and sewage water in London.

Philippa Bond ● 1061d

When I have visited Paris, I am always amazed to see the pavements washed down and always wondered why we didn’t do the same here.  
Re: bikes and mopeds.  I guess Paris seems to have more cyclists because Parisians tend to live in flats and there is less parking for cars.  One of the family lived in a studio in the Marais and I can’t think where he would have parked a car on those narrow streets, but he did have a bike.  

Martine Guy ● 1062d

Although it's been over two years since I was last in Paris, the streets are frequently washed, most often after the twice weekly market days held in all arrondisements. Not sure when else they are washed but twice a week is at least  better than here!

Lucille Grant ● 1062d

Could anything be done to encourage shop owners selling food, burgers etc to hose down the pavements  immediately outside? This happens in other countries in Europe. These fast food outlets and bars seem to have the dirtiest sections of  pavements. Granted there is a warning presently about water usage but it won't last forever.I agree the finish on the replacement improved paving is very poor and stains easily. Compare it to that outside Sloane Square tube station and the difference is noticeable.

Katrina Black ● 1062d

Part of the problem is the choice of paving stone, not all surfaces are the same.  Some stain far more easily.  Sadly Putney now has lots of the easy to stain ones after the various "improvements".

Adrian Pearce ● 1062d

Interesting, David. Must admit all the times I've visited Paris I've never noticed these. Possibly because I've been up late socialising with friends or relatives so haven't taken many (any?) early morning walks! Paris does always seem better organised than London with some of these things. In a recent visit this year there seemed to be a lot less traffic congestion and a lot more use of bicycles and e-scooters than in London, but I was in the centre so perhaps it's different in the Paris suburbs?

Michael Ixer ● 1062d

I hope that the Paris scheme is still running:_https://parisianfields.com/2012/03/11/a-most-unusual-water-system/Certainly surprised me that early morning all those years ago when I went for an early morning walk while on a school trip. Mind you, the other surprise that morning was these signs, which even then seemed a tad illogical:-https://tinyurl.com/4cm6mmxy

David Ainsworth ● 1062d

If things get dirty they need to be washed. This applies to pavements. Correct me if I am wrong, but (unlike in Paris, New York, Berlin etc etc and their suburbs) I have never seen PHS's pavements given a good dousing with water by the local Council. I agree: just now they look Third World.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1062d

Yes, I don't think many in this country appreciate enough that the water we get from our kitchen tap is drinking water unlike in so many other countries.

Philippa Bond ● 1062d

Every house has one

Andy Pike ● 1062d

Yes our temperatures are rising to match other overseas countries.Re all the plastic bottles it looks as though the rowing clubs and football clubs (and more eg cricket) could do with some input from some climate change ambassadors.  Many of us have been using reusable water bottles for years.  Where are the local Refill stations and water fountains?

Philippa Bond ● 1062d

I pick up a lot of rubbish on the common and side streets as I walk. We all need to take responsibility. I can’t bare walking past coffee cups as an example.However I agree Timothy the pavements can look bad.In Wimbledon they have litter monitors that do on spot fines and they have live cameras on their chests. I would like to see that bought in.One thing I can’t stand is all the plastic bottles around the rowing clubs and whilst they might not all be from the rowers. I cannot stand how the majority of them walk one inch past them without picking them up. A lot of them seem more interested in what they look like!

Nick Gulliford ● 1065d