Forum Topic

Kemi Badenoch

Very impressed with this MP.  She will probably not get past the first ballot because she isn't one of the big beasts but I hope the new PM appoints her into the Cabinet.

Sue Hammond ● 1070d67 Comments

Well, Kemi Badenoch has been voted out. 

Ivonne Holliday ● 1063d

"Each is an expert in their opposite's shortcomings when it comes to racism and sexual harassment but know nothing of such incidents in their own party."You haven't noticed some minor disturbances within a political party in the last 7 years then?

David Ainsworth ● 1064d

One could say an organisation has a culture that encourages dishonesty? Culture is generally set by the attitudes of an organisation's leadership.

Michael Ixer ● 1064d

"People are dishonest - not parties!"Parties are organisation and like any organisation unless they have good procedures and processes in place standards can quickly slip.As far as I know Neither party has an independent disciplinary process. Each is an expert in their opposite's shortcomings when it comes to racism and sexual harassment but know nothing of such incidents in their own party.Spin, dishonesty whatever you want to call it has been part of  both parties for decades. Could it be said that they are institutionally dishonest I wonder?

Ed Robinson ● 1064d

Excuse me for being blunt - rude is not the intention.But are a few of you so hellbent in comparing one conservative to a labour person?Dishonesty is applicable regardless of your political views, religion and colour of skin.  The same applies to integrity.One party does not own it and the other is not seeking to take over this.  People are dishonest - not parties!The same applies to integrity.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1064d

I assume Mr Carter will not be voting Labour if he is setting the level of honesty that high?Being more interested in policy I find these debates very uninteresting. What Brexit does enable is state subsidies and nationalisation. Some of the private monopolies could certainly do with returning to public ownership. However I'm not sure Kemi would advocate that. Starmer now says he doesn't believe in it.Of course state subsidies are available in the EU - well for Germany anyway 5 billion euros!https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/brussels-green-lights-e5-billion-in-energy-subsidies-for-german-industry/

Ed Robinson ● 1064d

This fact about Abbott is completely irrelevant.However, the ability of these candidates to consistently tell the truth is of key importance - at least as regards those that make it into the final run-off.This is why the Conservative Party, and as a consequence the country, is in this embarassing mess to begin with. The Conservative Party, members and MPs alike, were caught napping last time, allowing an established pathological liar to succeed to the country's highest office. In that position he continued to lie, until finally even the cabinet he appointed could bear it no longer.It is therefore of critical importance that the next PM is not another liar. Hence bystanders to the process such as Mr carter and myself home in on this aspect of the candidates' character, with good reason.The life choices made by some random past Labour back bencher decades ago are a pointless curiosity here. However, I do not think Ms Abbott lied about these choices.Tory MP Charlie Elphike is now in prison having been convicted on 3 counts of sexual assault. This is just as relevant. No, more relevant. He lied about it.

Michael Winstanley ● 1064d

Mr Winstanley'Is Diane Abbott standing? I missed that. Or is this just a competition to see who can come up with the most irrelevant piece of whataboutery'?If you start dishing the dirt on one politician don't be surprised if people wonder if some others have a less than spotless political history.To me Abbott's hypocrisy trumps Mr Carter's claim that Badenoch over egged her educational experiences.To me hypocrisy is worse.

John Hawkes ● 1064d

A fuller quote from the Times interview (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kemi-badenoch-from-fringe-candidate-to-contender-in-a-week-f0g2j9n50):'At an age when most members of the cabinet were preparing for their A-levels and hoping for a place at Oxbridge, Kemi Badenoch was putting herself through college and working at McDonald’s.“You would have people from college who would turn up and laugh at me because I was there with my hat and my badge and I didn’t have any stars,” she says. “But it was what I had to do. I didn’t have any money. My parents weren’t here and I was living with family friends. So I had a roof over my head, but I needed to earn to live. There’s a dignity that you just get from working and earning your own money.”In what is, by any standards, a diverse field to succeed the old Etonian Boris Johnson as Tory leader and prime minister Badenoch, 42, stands out.'She didn't use the words "sink school" but the implication is clear.

Richard Carter ● 1064d

Mr Carter'Lol! She wasn't at a private school but a fee-charging school for academics. That certainly clears that up'.Not for her A-level years.

John Hawkes ● 1064d

Mr Carter'And (shock! horror!), her mother was a health tourist: " She was born in a British hospital after her mother came to the country for medical reasons" (Times interview. 14 July)'.Do you object to non-British residents using the NHS, even if they pay as she might well have done.I certainly get a little irritated when I wait ages in Georges for my appointment surrounded by so many many speaking Polish or South Asian languages.Do you feel the same ?Wrong of me I suppose

John Hawkes ● 1064d

Is Diane Abbott standing? I missed that. Or is this just a competition to see who can come up with the most irrelevant piece of whataboutery?

Michael Winstanley ● 1064d

Mr Carter'Yes, it does matter, because Badenoch is a candidate for our Prime Minister and could even be in the job in a few weeks' time; trying to give the impression that she escaped a sink school entirely on her own efforts is completely dishonest'.Can you point me to where she made that claim ?And if she did and it is not true, that does not excuse Abbott's hypocrisy which I presume Starmer felt would be a liability to the Labour Party.

John Hawkes ● 1064d

Yes, it does matter, because Badenoch is a candidate for our Prime Minister and could even be in the job in a few weeks' time; trying to give the impression that she escaped a sink school entirely on her own efforts is completely dishonest.And you're just trying to defect from the issue by dragging in Diane Abbott, who is not even an opposition front bencher.

Richard Carter ● 1064d

Does it matter? Are you as scornful about that shining beacon of socialism Diane Abbott for sending her Son to a private school all the while slagging off Conservatives for doing the same?  Unfortunately she wasted her money because he still turned out to be a delinquent half-wit.

Sue Hammond ● 1064d

Lol! She wasn't at a private school but a fee-charging school for academics. That certainly clears that up.

Richard Carter ● 1064d

I think she's brilliant and a breath of fresh air.  Far too anti-woke for the usual gaggle of Guardianistas on this forum which is another ✅ in my book.

Sue Hammond ● 1064d

Quite right Mr MacLeodShe like all immigrants should be jolly grateful we let her in and she should vote Labour.

John Hawkes ● 1064d

Mr Carter'Badenoch makes a lot of her working in McDonalds to fund her way through university as if she were pulling herself up by her own bootstraps. Who would guess from this inspiring story that her father was a GP, her mother a professor of physiology and she attended a private school? Yet another Tory who is somewhat "economical with the truth."Thanks for this but in Yahoo https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/kemi-badenoch-she-goes-forward-172721441.htmlshe is quoted as flipping burgers whilst at Morden FE studying A-levels and the 'private school' is not as we would use the term but the fee-charging school for academics like her parents working at Lagos University.You obviously would not expect a child with such parents to want pay her own young way or supplement any 'pocket money' by actually working whilst studying for her A-levels.Like Jeremy Corbyn, son of a maths teacher and an electrical engineer who attended an independent prep school and then a grammar school achieving two E grade A-levels, she could have spent her free time fermenting revolution as an activist with The Wrekin constituency Young Socialists, but this time in Morden.She then of course might not have gone on to gain an MEng in IT at Sussex University and then a LLB at Birkbeck whilst Corbyn was supporting various terrorist organisations.Do others like me find comments by the likes of Mr Carter misogynistic, patronising, classist and somewhat racist ?"Why should non-white British immigrants have the cheek to vote Conservative after all the Labour Party has done for them" ?Put aside what one might think of her policies, she seems to be a role model for many by what she has achieved that has given her the platform to promote them.

John Hawkes ● 1064d

One could take the view that although at the age of 38 she tried to pass this off as a prank given, as you say, it probably took place when she was around 28 it could be considered an attempt to subvert democracy. Whatever the reason behind her admitted criminal activity, having dealt with security incidents (usually carried out by more professional Eastern Europeans!) I can only think she must have wasted the time of people who investigated and fixed this issue. Perhaps she should have paid compensation for the time wasted as well as give an apology? 

Michael Ixer ● 1064d

Two things abou t her, apart from the juvenile hacking (at 28 at the time, at my calculations,  she was hardly a teenager) , that bother me: 1. Her obvious attempt to dodge or downplay what was an ultra-privileged early background; 2. As a person who came to Britain from another country  and was enabled to prosper, her unwillingness to adopt a humanitarian approach to refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants who don't happen to be well-endowed financially. She shares this tendency with other Tory MPs (no names, no pack drill) of a non-British background. She leaves the impression that she thinks: If you yourself have made it, that's it - the others don't count. Not an attractive stance.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1064d

And (shock! horror!), her mother was a health tourist: " She was born in a British hospital after her mother came to the country for medical reasons" (Times interview. 14 July).

Richard Carter ● 1064d

Here is a paragraph from Wikipedia. She hacked Harriet Harmon in 2018. So much for trust and honesty.“In April 2018, The Mail on Sunday obtained a video of an interview that Badenoch did with Core Politics, where she confessed to hacking into the website of a Labour MP in 2008.[75][76] The MP in question was Harriet Harman, who was then Deputy Leader of the Labour Party. Harman accepted Badenoch's apology, but the matter was reported to Action Fraud, the UK's cyber crime reporting centre.[77][78]”Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1064d

Badenoch makes a lot of her working in McDonalds to fund her way through university as if she were pulling herself up by her own bootstraps. Who would guess from this inspiring story that her father was a GP, her mother a professor of physiology and she attended a private school? Yet another Tory who is somewhat "economical with the truth."

Richard Carter ● 1064d

Thank you Michael.I cannot believe she is 42!I do not know why by somehow her experience does no seem show?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1065d

That's Winstanley showing off his debatingSkills. Insults and name calling. Hardly the attributes of someone who aims to sway opinion but rather someone who has his opinion and that's it.

Andy Pike ● 1065d

'She is a total twat like the rest of them'.'The Labour Party is nothing to do with me you idiot'.Taken from the 'Wit and Wisdom of Michael Winstanley' !

John Hawkes ● 1065d

Where do you think that Kemi Badenoch stands on the war in Ukraine and the UK supplying large amounts of arms to Ukraine, Ms Hammond?

David Ainsworth ● 1066d

She is 42, Ivonne, but perhaps hasn't been in politics long enough - around fifteen years? 

Michael Ixer ● 1066d

Or too young and inexperienced?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1066d

SH: "What does it explain?" As I said, a lot.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1066d

Sickening for you ...?

Sue Hammond ● 1066d

It is a bizarre statement actually, which betrays how shallow the various candidates' ideological platforms actually are.If KB is a genuine Conservative, what on earth has it got to do with her how businesses decide to conduct themselves? It is their choice - nothing to do with government.Indeed, if buisnesses all prioritised social justice over the pursuit of profit (lets just be clear - they actually don't), there would be far less need for either regulation or government intervention. What does KB envisage? Government which forces businesses like Ben & Jerrys to ignore customer opinions and be utter b*stards regardless? She seems very confused to me - one can see the target audience to which she might be trying to appeal, but only on the assumption that they too are very confused.

Michael Winstanley ● 1066d

I was referring to those standing in the Tory leadership contest. The description also extends to a number of others, including policicians of all parties, genders and ancestries and to yourself. I don't know Ms Anderson well enough to say whether she is also deserving of the epithet.

Michael Winstanley ● 1066d

Oh dear, I have occasion to dub you an idiot twice over.Firstly for identifying me with the left.Secondly for displaying a profound ignorance as to causes of increasing demand for health services.What on earth is the "net population" when it is at home? Anyways, population growth, whether due to the net excess of births over deaths or to net immigration, is nothing to do with the increasing strain on the NHS. As the population grows, so does the economy, taxes paid, also the number of doctors and nurses - particularly when so many are immigrants to the UK. The principle cause of strain on the NHS is demographic trends - with which the current government's spending has not kept pace.

Michael Winstanley ● 1066d

The Labour Party is nothing to do with me you idiot.As for KB, at least you make some improvement on the standard of argument by giving a link to a BBC article which you allege describes her policies. In fact it's little more than a tawdry potted biography.  No argument advanced as to why her policies - whatever they are - are preferable to those of the other candidates - except perhaps a hint towards positive discrimination. All things being equal, a black female would be great. One that appears oblivious to LBGT issues, less so.

Michael Winstanley ● 1066d

Sue, isn’t what sickening?Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1066d

As Sue can guess I'm unlikely to be a great fan of Ms Badenoch - or any of the contenders - however when she comes out with statements such as: “The Right has ... been undermined by retreating in the face of the Ben & Jerry’s tendency, those who say a business's main priority is social justice, not productivity and profits." it does rather undermine her credibility. Aren't Ben & Jerry's a successful, profitable organisation; I've not notice large corporations such as oil companies putting social responsibility before profits - even he Johnson government took up Labour's idea of a windfall tax on oil companies.Perhaps the fact she's doing so well just highlights the overall mediocre nature of the candidates standing? (Perhaps Sue and I can agree on that?) There's also probably a reason Sunak is outfront in a vote by his MP peers - they know he's the best of a bad bunch? He knows the economic situation first hand and sounds realistic. I'm not a great fan of his but he at last had the business calibre to qualify for a green card and it was probably a reasonable family decision by his wife to go for non-dom status, although a poor one for his political career.I didn't see the TV hustings but from other comments none of them sound that close to those who are in need levelling up?

Michael Ixer ● 1066d

A friend of mine live in Saffron Walden where KB is MP. It is a safe Tory seat and he says she does absolutely nothing for the constiuency - is rarely even seen there. Good practice - if appointed PM she could do absolutely nothing for the rest of us too.She'll be out next week though. It'll be 2 out of Sunak, Mordaunt and Truss in the runoff for the membership to decide. Then whoever wins, having been voted for by a few members of the public, will act as if they are the public's choice.

Michael Winstanley ● 1066d

What does it explain?

Sue Hammond ● 1066d

Yes Nick, isn't that sickening?

Sue Hammond ● 1066d

Mr Winstanleyhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62176280I think many might read Ms Badenoch's policies and beliefs described here and find some agreement.Someone rising in the political and wider world through her own efforts in the main.However as regard leadership of a political Party her sex, ethnic background and skin colour may well be a disadvantage to her, even in a Party that now has the most diverse, in many senses, Cabinet we have seen and has produced two female leaders and PMs.If only your Labour Party could have put aside its prejudices in all such regards and done the same.Of your last two leaders, one was a lifelong 'activist' (mainly in support of numerous foreign terrorist organisations) who never had a proper job in his life, and the current one is a Knight of the Realm, a highly paid DPP and yet still someone who cannot define what attributes define a woman.

John Hawkes ● 1066d

Makes it sound like it. Explains a lot.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1066d

Mr WinstanleyLike so many of your leftist ilk you bang on repeatedly about the decline of the NHS.What evidence or experience can you put forward for this claim ?My personal experience is very positive which is a commendation in that the number being dealt with is surely growing bearing in mind the net population is increasing by large numbers because of immigration.And though I cannot often understand what is being said, most of these people I see at our local hospitals look satisfied.Oh and do you recall someone suggesting that if one thinks their pension increase is not needed it can always be donated to charity.Which one will yours be !!!!

John Hawkes ● 1066d

Sue - does that mean you’re one of the 150,000 Conservative members who will choose our next PM?Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1066d

'She is a total twat like the rest of them'.Mr Winstanley,Does the charming phraseology you use apply to Conservative politicians, female politicians including Ms Anderson, politicians of all and any Party including Labour, politicians with non-white British ancestry ?A more precise answer please.

John Hawkes ● 1066d

Even more impressed from watching Kemi last night. 👏🏻A rising🌟but maybe a little too soon for the top job just now. However should she make it onto the ballot paper she will get my vote.  As for all the others, no thanks, I will stick to my original plan.

Sue Hammond ● 1066d

She's a real worry - when she talked about the "tendency to put social justice before productivity and profits being one cause of our economic , social and intellectual malaise."  I think we should all be concerned.

Lynne McNulty ● 1066d

"P.S. Why does your default tone have to be so crabby?"I think that Ms Hammond uses some form of double-entry accounting system. "Every debit has a corresponding credit".

David Ainsworth ● 1068d

As is the nature of the "election" taking place, her advocates are all Conservative MP's. Thus they have little to no credibility at all.

Michael Winstanley ● 1068d

@HammondRaise your game or don't bother to waste the space.

Michael Winstanley ● 1068d

SH: " advocates who are more credible than you". Just to be clear: I'm advocating none of them. P.S. Why does your default tone have to be so crabby?

Alexander MacLeod ● 1068d

Sue. My point was that she raised it herself in 2018. I feel that was surprising. Breaches of the Computer Misuse Act are viewed quite seriously, particularly if subverting democracy m; remember the dubious use of tweet bots in the 2016 referendum (although that wasn't illegal)? Some others have been prosecuted for similar "pranks" so were not pleased she wasn't. In fact she wasn't prosecuted in 2018 because before it was considered a less serious offence before Oct 08.I think she was at least in her mid 20s when she did this (she admitted when 38 and said it was 10 years ago), so not that young; many of us has serious jobs building IT systems at that age.Perhaps she was lucky that Ms Harman accepted her apology.  Puts Ms Harman in a good moral position while perhaps making one question Badenoch's judgement (I'm referring to the recent revelation in 2018).

Michael Ixer ● 1068d

@AMCredible PM? Possibly not yet but she certainly has the backing of some very credible advocates who are more credible than you.

Sue Hammond ● 1068d

@ MichaelI just KNEW you would dig that up and relish it lol. She was young and it was a prank for which she apologised. The apology was accepted and everyone moved on.  Apparently not you. However I suspect that Kemi being a strong Brexiteer and a proud patriot gets right up your nose.😸

Sue Hammond ● 1068d

Definitely a breath of fresh air - a PM candidate who volunteers their law breaking even if it was a decade earlier ...https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/09/bafflement-over-tory-mps-admission-she-hacked-harriet-harmans-website#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16577511951532&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ftechnology%2F2018%2Fapr%2F09%2Fbafflement-over-tory-mps-admission-she-hacked-harriet-harmans-website

Michael Ixer ● 1069d

The reason that Kemi Badenoch seems so refreshing is that we've got so used to the lags who have been dominating the Tory Party for so long. A breath of fresh air? Yes. A credible prime minister for the United Kingdom? You've got to be kidding.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1069d

@ WinstanleyBore off.  Polite version.

Sue Hammond ● 1069d

There we go again. Totally vacuous comment. "I am so pleased that someone I like came 4th". Tories starved NHS  of funding for years - must be Jeremy Hunt's fault because I don't like him. How will we explain the continued decline of the NHS under Sunak/Mordaunt/Truss/Badenoch/AN Other? Who cares - we will have triple locked pensions and we will have tax cuts. Us old codgers will all be dead before these chickens come properly home to roost. In the meantime we'll enjoy it whilst we can.

Michael Winstanley ● 1069d

@MikeKemi beat some big beasts after all!  Great result to come 4th! So pleased for her and I'm sure she has a great political future ahead. So pleased Hunt was eliminated, his control of the NHS limped on far too long and much of its decline was happening under his watch.

Sue Hammond ● 1069d

She came fourth so beat Tugenhat, Braverman, Zahawi and Hunt ... but that still leaves Sunak, Mordaunt and Truss in front:

Michael Ixer ● 1069d

Intelligence to match only the opening comment of the thread."I like Kemi Badenoch". Well so what? As if anyone would care.Make some cogent and sensible analysis of Kemi's proposed policies - or that of any of the other contenders and you might get an intelligent reply. Treat the thing as if it is some political equivalent of Pop Idol, and you get the reponse you deserve.

Michael Winstanley ● 1069d

I think that Ms Hammond and Mr Warman could help by saying what they like about Ms Badenoch's policies.

David Ainsworth ● 1069d

Michael’s comment? A bit rude but completely accurate.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1069d

Hi Sue about the level of intelligent and polite input we’ve come From Mr Winstanley.I agree with you though having seen a couple of speeches she comes across very well and nice to see her polling well with party members so she could surprise!

Mike Warman ● 1069d

Well that was a very intelligent answer. Not. However that's typical from you.

Sue Hammond ● 1069d

She is a total twat like the rest of them.

Michael Winstanley ● 1070d