Forum Topic

TfL Planning to scrap both the 14 and 74 bus routes

Staff are starting to be told this morning but Sixteen London bus routes are to be withdrawn by the end of next year: 4, 11, 12, 14, 16, 24, 31, 45, 72, 74, 78, 242, 349, 521, C3, D7We don't know exactly what the replacements will be yet but expect the 414 instead of the 14.

Adrian Pearce ● 1110d42 Comments

Demonstration today starting at the Green Man (top of Putney Hill) at 14:00. Fleur Anderson MP will be leading.

D. E. Buckner ● 1065d

There's also the 72 which is useful if you need to get to Hammersmith Hospital. Because Hammersmith Bridge is closed you would now have to get to Hammersmith on the 430 and 220. Less convenient when you could pick it up on Roehampton Lane.Write to Fleur Anderson explaining how the changes will affect you. The TfL survey seems more interested in "we want to know more about you" than what you think of the proposals

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1081d

The consultation has been extended so you now have until August to object...
https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/busreview
If you have an opinion on the 378 changes, the have your say on that ends next week...
https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/barnes-bus-changes

Adrian Pearce ● 1082d

Well, you could start by reading the third post, by Adrian Pearce (01/06/22 10:31:00), which gives details of TfL's consultation.

Richard Carter ● 1085d

haven’t read one word on this forums on how as Putney group we can make our voices heard to stop these cuts…..

Paul Beer ● 1085d

The developers who are backers of the Tory party?

Philippa Bond ● 1085d

Good point Caroline on the no right turn.There was a article that made a similar point about Waterloo garage. It seems to give an honest assessment of the cuts (link at the bottom)."If route 521 goes what will happen to the excess capacity created at Go-Ahead London’s bus garage at Waterloo which had £20 million invested in recent times to become the first all electric bus garage in the country?"https://busandtrainuser.com/2022/06/18/my-verdict-on-tfls-bus-cuts-part-1/amp/

Ed Robinson ● 1086d

Well, the idea worked with London police stations, so ...

David Ainsworth ● 1086d

Thanks. I guess they need to keep a garage in the area for maintenance and refueling; and to park buses overnight where they won't be vandalised or spray-painted. I've always thought it odd that the 74's don't go up Putney Hill and turn round at the Green Man instead of holding up the traffic in the High Street by waiting to turn right into Chelverton Road.

Caroline Underwood ● 1086d

I'm not sure how up-to-date it is:"Putney garage operates London bus routes 22, 74, 209, 337, 378, 424, 430, 24-hour route 14, and night routes N22 and N74."https://bus-routes-in-london.fandom.com/wiki/London_General

Ed Robinson ● 1086d

If the 74 bus route is being scrapped does that mean TfL can close Putney bus garage and sell it off to developers?

Caroline Underwood ● 1086d

They are not identical Richard they give a breakdown of income.The TFL slide is set in the context of discussion over funding with government. They have presented a slide that combines subsidiaries with other income which misrepresents the issue.As you see NY City and state subsidies are 8% and Paris 18%.Now that is still a big difference but it tells a slightly different story. As well as government funding there is a big difference with tolls 14% NY as opposed to London 4%. As already stated TFL is not using all its powers to raise tolls (Congestion charge/ULEZ).TFL could have seperated these 3 categories out but choose not to mislead instead!NY is also responsible for 9 bridges. TFL have chosen to throw money at Hammersmith bridge including the ferry fantasy.

Ed Robinson ● 1086d

I'm lost here in trying to understand your point. You said (14:56:00) that "perhaps a independent source [to TfL's figures] would be appropriate" as opposed to TfL's ones. Then, when I queried that, you suggested a Centre for London page - which gives figures for New York and Paris that are virtually identical to the TfL ones. So what's your point?

Richard Carter ● 1086d

"Otherwise your criticism amounts to pointless pedantry."Source: Richardhttps://www.centreforlondon.org/blog/funding-london-transport/

Ed Robinson ● 1086d

Ed, if you have an alternative source, I'll be happy to see it. Otherwise your criticism amounts to pointless pedantry.

Richard Carter ● 1086d

“Do you have a link?”Precisely my point David - TFL decide how their cake is divided up and how big a slice the underground gets.Unlike other cities TFL also have tax raising powers such as the congestion charge & ULEZ. The mayor has chosen the tax bands (tariffs) for these which have underperformed on revenue raised and air quality improvements.I’m not sure how TFL can be compared with other transport authorities globally. Huge amounts are swallowed up on mega projects while micro projects are starved.

Ed Robinson ● 1086d

"Richard, the source is TFL for your charts.Perhaps a independent source would be appropriate."Do you have a link?

David Ainsworth ● 1086d

Richard, the source is TFL for your charts.Perhaps a independent source would be appropriate.My understanding also is that TFL can choose where to apply government funding so the picture may not be as simple as it seems.The mayor could choose to build a tunnel, subsidise the tube more or have low cost dockless bikes for the whole of London for example.

Ed Robinson ● 1086d

"A little note to Mr Beer, with a surname such as yours, you would be very welcome in Australia"But this thread is about omnibus transport - not penal transportation, isn't it?

David Ainsworth ● 1086d

Against the attacks on Sadiq here, TfL's financial problems are better set in context by this chart, which shows how underfunding is the cause of its problems longterm:

Richard Carter ● 1086d

A little note to Mr Beer, with a surname such as yours, you would be very welcome in Australia - from an exPutneyite

Patrick Barrs ● 1087d

David, people have to work together. So you would just accept and do nothing? We are being taken for a ride, and that’s not on a 14 or 74 bus.

Paul Beer ● 1087d

"If things get ridiculous we should stop our monthly council tax payments."Really? Tell us when you do.

David Ainsworth ● 1087d

It seams like they want to stop us travelling, they make us pay charges to use our car in London, it’s all about control which started with the Lockdowns that shouldn’t had happened but the masses didn’t question. If things get ridiculous we should stop our monthly council tax payments. Remember, Government and local authorities work for us. The country is a complete mess, all political parties are as bad as each other… that’s my moan. Best P

Paul Beer ● 1087d

Just that - let's see what transpires.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 1087d

I do not understand this.  Was the 378 not introduced recently?  Was this service not set up to avoid extending the 22 to Barnes?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1087d

We use it frequently. What a pain. Another example of Johnsonian cuts from central government on TFL …N.

Nicholas Evans ● 1087d

This morning TfL have announced the 378 service is being halved to every 15 minutes from next month, so it's no longer turn up and go from Putey to Barnes.Details here....https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/barnes-bus-changes

Adrian Pearce ● 1087d

Thanks for the advice.  Seriously, BOTH buses?  But not all those useless buses that no longer have a purpose with no route over Hammersmith Bridge?  Zipping around clogging up too narrow streets with no one on them.The 14 bus is irreplaceable.  Fulham library, Chelsea & Westminster Hospital and Knightsbridge.  That bus always has people on it, we do need to pull together on this.

Jenny Featherstone ● 1093d

Fleur Anderson is planning to gather constituents' views so she can submit these to TfL or whoever. Might be worth getting in touch with her

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1097d

I completed the TfL survey, but shall write my objections, though I'm not sure who is the best person to contact: local councillor? leader Wandsworth council? GLA member? I don't think the survey enables bus users to state their case.The survey seemed more interested in respondents' gender preference (took me a while to work out what they were on about!) and sexual orientation than in what the loss of the 14 and 74 will mean, in my case getting to hospitals. If you need a bus, surely what sex/gender you are is irrelevant.Neither C&W nor CC are near tube stations. If you go to Hammersmith or South Ken or Fulham, you then have to get on a bus.Somehow I clicked on to a Harrow local paper (different buses at stake there). Someone sent a comment saying perhaps Khan should spent less time flitting round cannabis farms in California.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1105d

I think losing both would be a huge detrimental issue. 14 is used to get to Chelsea and westminster, Brompton and Marsden hospitals, where there isn't a nearby tube station. They want us to stop using cars.......so this wouldn't exactly help matters. 74 goes to Charing Cross hospital. Nevermind accessing other parts of London. We really MUST all comment

Victoria Diamond ● 1105d

If the availability/frequency of bus services fall surely car ownership will rise. Is this is a genuine threat to the services or is Khan trying to shake down Boris for more cash again? I will really miss the 14 in particular and have sent an email to the address in the consultation - I really hope there is much opposition and they listen. If no-one bothers to object we will get what we deserve.

John Geoffries ● 1106d

Yes, I use the 14 to get to Chelsea and WestminsterIf both the 14 and 74 are cancelled this will surely result in overcrowding on the 414 and 430.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1106d

Most people on this forum won't be interested as they don't use public transportWhat possible evidence do you have for  this statement?  The loss of the 14 and 74 would be a blow as they are the main routes into central London from Putney.

Jane Carter ● 1107d

The lack of step free access in 2022 is shocking.With the other half of the 72 route North of the river disappearing it means it is extremely unlikely that the original route South of the river will ever return even if Hammersmith Bridge is eventually fixed.The 14 is very handy for Westminster & Chelsea hospital.It would be nice to see the savings in £ for each change and how it is derived.We already know that the people making the decisions do not travel by public transport never mind buses!

Ed Robinson ● 1107d

Most people on this forum won't be interested as they don't use public transport. Given the lack of step free access at both 'local' tube stations, the loss of the 14 and 74 - and possibly other routes, for those who rely on them, will change their lives for the worse!

David Sharp ● 1107d

Be warned some of the info on the consultation pages is inaccurate / misleading. For instance, the take over of part of Route 74 by the 430 means people wanting to use Old Brompton Road must change buses but the change information gets its Eastbound and Westbound mixed up, suggesting South Kensington is west of West Brompton. In reality in an Eastbound direction to continue along Old Brompton Road you must walk a block and turn a corner to find the replacement bus, the C1.

Adrian Pearce ● 1109d

Hi Vicky,Look at the West London Pdf's.

Ed Robinson ● 1110d

Sorry, vicky here, can't seem to logout of putney society. I've just looked at the consultation and can't see any mention of 74 or 14 buses? Not on the maps of either current or afterwards. Is it me? What have I missed? https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/busreview

Putney Society ● 1110d

The official consultation and details are now here.14 withdrawn replaced by an extended 414 to Putney Heath74 withdrawn430 diverted between West Brompton and South Kensington via the 74 routehttps://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/busreview

Adrian Pearce ● 1110d

A little more detail but I can't copy the text so here is the tweet it is fromhttps://twitter.com/Be_KindBeHonest/status/1531911117399810049/photo/1

Adrian Pearce ● 1110d