Forum Topic

Our worst fears

Horrible news to wake up to  Who can alleviate such deadful chaos?  Most sad

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1440d46 Comments

All good points . Just saying the west have been controlling  this region by stealth and creating massive wealth for the US and EU elite and yes Russia have laundered billion and the west accept it. This massive country in Europe is like a buffer zone Russians may try to split the region before the west take financial control for its own benefits. unfortunately you really can’t believe a word the press tell us and the full story of the west’s financial involvement.

Paul Beer ● 1437d

I'm sure they will notify families, David, but easier to suppress the bad publicity?

Michael Ixer ● 1437d

Russia still will have to tell the families, I'd hope. Give them an urn at least.Unless they report an increase in training accidents and suicides. Or there could be an increase in the number of "distant postings", like Argentina used for their air force's lost pilots in the Falklands* War.* I just mistyped this as "Flaklands"

David Ainsworth ● 1437d

Putin and his supporting oligarchs have been happy to use the western financial systems to launder the wealth stolen from the Russian nation so they can hardly object when the Ukrainians want to use western finances to improve their lives? Anyway, irrespective of what the UK, US, EU, IMF, NATO, etc may have been doing in terms of financial manipulation of political power it doesn't alter the fact that it's Putin who has blood on his hands by launching a military attack on Ukraine that threatens the lives of innocent civilians.This unjustified war is not only causing Ukrainian casualties but there are some (true, as yet unsubstantiated) reports of several thousand Russian dead. The western intelligence that the Russian troops are followed by mobile crematoria perhaps shows what little respect Putin has for his own people? I know there could be practical reasons for this (and it's not proven they're being used) but it would certainly avoid the embarrassment of thousands of coffins arriving home from a country ones trying to "liberate"?https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/24/russia-deploys-mobile-crematoriums-to-follow-troops-into-ukraine-16162585/

Michael Ixer ● 1437d

The US and EU have had a major financial commitmentsin the Ukraine and basically control within. Yes of course Russia would love to have indirectly control. The west have certainly contributed to the unrest.

Paul Beer ● 1438d

"Russia will not stand and watch such actions from the US..."you forgot to end that sentence with "...when it should be Putin who installs a puppet as president and Putin and his cronies who enrich themselves at the expense (and lives) of the Ukrainian people"

Adam Tripp ● 1438d

The U.S. strategy was to open Ukrainian markets to foreign investors and give control of its economy to giant multinational corporations. The International Monetary Fund have used its power to change Ukrainian. During the tug of war between the U.S. and Russia, the Americans were engaged in a destabilization campaign against the Yanukovych government pouring billions of dollars into the country. The campaign culminated with the overthrow of the elected president. New Ukraine election and a puppet president instated funny enough a comedian Zelensky, under the west’s control. The country is indirectly controlled by US, IMF, EU and is know for financial fraud and money laundering with connections to Joe Biden son and Hillary Clinton and many more elites. Russia will not stand and watch such actions from the US.

Paul Beer ● 1438d

Faring great thanks Brown just couldnt believe there are more of you so thick and  easily turned to sheepies by such rubbish.

Andy Pike ● 1438d

Forum shills and sheeple not faring well after that truth carpet bombing by Roland..

Michael Brown ● 1438d

Presumably hating us and west as he does he'll be on an early plane east.never read such a rant before.

Andy Pike ● 1438d

Actually he used to be an interesting if rather quirky commentator on this forum, but judging by this hysterical nonsense he seems to have fallen hook line and sinker for Qanon or some other ridiculous conspiracy "theory".

Richard Carter ● 1438d

He's a troll or an idiot. Take your pick.

Paul Rolink ● 1438d

I have heard an enormous amount of poppycock but yours takes the ticket."The West has no morals, no respect for truth."  Ha!!!  Do you think Russia has?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1438d

You don't have to get too far down the link provided to come across"The purpose of this mass panic was to persuade the population to agree to the so-called “vaccinations" which have in the meantime be proven to be neither effective, nor safe, but extremely dangerous, even lethal. "So, usual conspiracy theory stuff then.

Matt Palmer ● 1438d

It only took 6 posts on this thread before someone compared Putin to Hitler. First, a reality check; Russia is the preeminent military power in the world. China is the preeminent economic power in the world.Russia has hundreds of billions in foreign currency reserves and hundreds of billions more in gold. The UK is bankrupt as is the EU and the debased US$ can no longer be considered the world's reserve currency. Economic collapse, far bigger than 2008/9, may only be a matter of months away.The Russian military is financed by the Russian national budget, not by banks. Western economic sanctions have an extremely poor record of achieving their stated objectives. Any Russian official of sufficiently high rank to have participated in a decision of the Russian Security Council who still trusts the West to have money abroad is so stupid that he deserves for it to be confiscated.Russia and China have been subjected to psyop operations that makes them think that they need the West. This delusion is the greatest threat that they face, indeed, that the whole world faces. The chances for World War III are enhanced by their contacts with the West. These contacts result in constant accusations, constant provocations, which are dangerous because they can explode into conflict. By now, Russia and China should know that negotiations with the West are not only pointless but dangerous.  Russia and China have their own goals. These goals are the development of their countries and the creation of their own trading blocs. There is no reason whatsoever to contaminate this project with Western corruption. The Western World will not be a problem for Russia much longer. The West is collapsing in its own degeneracy, dying from self-hate. The West dishonours its founders and its heroes. The West tears down its own historical monuments, black-lists its own classic literature, teaches hatred of itself in its own universities and state schools and now has created two powerful enemies. The West has no morals, no respect for truth. The US government has trampled its Constitution into the dirt.  As the US is the Constitution, the US has trampled itself into the dirt. As the rest of the West is part of the American empire, all goes down with the US.The US and NATO recognizes that it cannot stand up to Russia. The White House claims “The latest US Sanctions are not designed to cause any disruption to the current flow of energy from Russia to The World” What absolute ignorance!“President Zelensky has declared General Mobilization in Ukraine within the next 90 days”. Within 90 days Ukraine will not exist. Moreover, the neo-Nazis who have kept Zelensky in power will be dead by then and few if any Ukrainians will mobilize.The American Speaker of the House of Representatives must not have heard Putin’s warnings. Pelosi says she wants to provide Ukraine with $600 Million in lethal defense weapons as Boris doubles down on UK military shipments. NATO is unravelling: NATO members dependent upon Russian energy object to cutting Russia from the SWIFT payments system; otherwise the cartoon that used to introduce Have I Got News For You will be their reality.Idiot European leaders are learning what it means to be US puppet states; death, destruction, and financial harm. The UK with its destroyed economy wants to destroy Russia’s? Our Foreign Office announced that the UK is working with allies to disconnect Russia from SWIFT and will not rest until the Russian Economy is destroyed! Who do they think they are fooling? The major problem the world faces is that Western governments have zero contact with reality.  The world has reached the point in its history when the Western part of it has totally failed in its leadership. The United States has abandoned all principles of its founding, all allegiance to law and has attempted to impose its will on the world. Russia objects, and so does China.Ukraine diverts attention away from the UK and Western Governments catastrophic handling of Covid. After 5 days of comprehensive evidence, tomorrow we can hear evidence of eugenics and closing statements at  The Court Of Public Opinion https://www.grand-jury.net/ Videos of the hearings are on Odysee.

Roland Willis Gilmore ● 1438d

"Yet another failure of the west, and with more to come no doubt too."Some way to go yet, for Russia as well as the West. Unintended consequences maybe. The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan did not produce the expected results in the long run, nor did the Western help for the Afghani mujahideen resistance produce quite what we expected in the long run.

David Ainsworth ● 1438d

Yet another failure of the west, and with more to come no doubt too.

Clifford Cowell ● 1438d

RT coverage of Ukraine is interesting albeit quite biased but it does give an insight into what the Russian people are being told. I'm finding the Al Jazeera coverage is probably the best of all the news channels.

Adam Tripp ● 1439d

What are you suggesting that we can/should do? In the meantime:-"Russia has "eliminated" Ukraine's air defences and is looking to mass overwhelming forces around the capital Kyiv, a senior Western intelligence officer has said this evening."Essentially the Russians now have complete air superiority over Ukraine," they said, speaking on condition of anonymity." (Telegraph)

David Ainsworth ● 1439d

We can. His economy is the size of Italy - 2% of the world economy against 50% of our share. History goes to the one with the biggest purse as historians say.He's doomed as he has no way to turn.Talk about over play you hand. Hitler did the same & look what happened to him. It's his last throw of the dice- sorry for the cliches, but you get my drift- he's desperate & he thinks this his chance to cement some kind of legacy. Dictatorships are not the best way to govern & he shows why. He has been there for 20 odd years. God, Margaret Thatcher lost it after 12 years & she was on the good side,so imagine what is happening to him.

Paul Rolink ● 1439d

"thanks to the EEC, the EC and the EU, Europe enjoyed over 70 years of peace.... "Not true but often repeated.What I think you mean is that there have not been war between  EEC/EU members.There have been other wars and conflicts in Europe.Oddly enough the term peace time is often used to describe the UK post second world war - even though the UK has been at war continuously since WW2.It's probably fair to say that we are at war with Yemen - but that's another topic.Interesting discussion and good to see different viewpoints. When we only here one view then we have lost whatever side you are on :)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_Kingdom

Ed Robinson ● 1439d

"There is no difference whatsoever between Soviet-apologist Corbynites blaming "the West" for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and Remainers blaming Brexit or Trump. To describe these assertions as tenuous would be an affront to tenuousness. You are useful idiots for Putin.""Useful idiots" have not won UK elections or referenda in the past ten years, so I doubt that Putin will have been influenced by them and their weakness. Remind me who has been in power, while NATO has been moving east to the Russian border. Nice to be able to dump blame on the powerless."During President Trump's term of office, Russia made no attempts to invade anywhere."Well, many tens of thousands of Russian soldiers managed to get very useful combat experience in Syria, supporting Assad, while Trump was President."Well, we've enjoyed thirty years of that misapprehension. It's over now."Thirty years under the Tories and the Labour Right.If it's over now, then what are you suggesting should happen? NATO providing air cover for the Ukrainian forces? Our aircraft destroying Russian armour? "Nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies"?

David Ainsworth ● 1439d

Hello Adam,I am afraid I disagree with you on some points.One, Michael Ixer did not say that Brexit enabled Putin to invade Ukraine.  This is a conclusion you reached on a comment that did not mean that in the slightest.When talking about Ukraine and Barack Obama, you forgot to mention that the PM at the time was David Cameron, who, as far as I am aware, is a conservative who also said "we are staying out of Syria".During Trump's term of office, Russia made no attempts to invade anyone.  Well, since Trump called him a "good chap" plus weakening NATO at the same time, I am not surprised Putin was purring like a Cheshire cat.While I could sympathize with Trump saying some European countries were not contributing enough (meaning less than 2% of their GDP), this was rectified not long after Trump became President.  But, at the same time, he also left the WHO because, and this is me speaking from experience, it was not following the policies Trump wanted.....  I would rather not expand on this, if you do not mind.You may not like Biden, perhaps in the same measure that I detest Trump, but Biden did not withdraw unilaterally, that was the agreement Trump had concluded.  I would agree that Biden should not have followed that agreement, though.Biden does not have an obsession with trying to turn Europe into a replica of the US; sadly it is mostly the conservative party.  Please, consider the record privatisation that has happened under the conservatives. (As an explanation, I was a conservative voter until this lot came up for election....)Britain leaving the EU has weaken it and itself.  Please, could you answer this?  Why do you think Russia considered it safe to send submarines to cut the communications cables under the North Sea recently? France was not trying to establish the EU army, the Commission was.  Does this ring a bell?  The UK built an aircraft carrier that was going to be "populated" with French aircraft....  I wonder why? Ukraine's non-membership of NATO was not necessarily EU's memberships stance but:" [Ukraine's] Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President. Amid the Euromaidan unrest, Yanukovych fled Ukraine in February 2014." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relationsI thought the Minsk Agreement was signed by:- Swiss diplomat and OSCE representative Heidi Tagliavini- Former president of Ukraine (July 1994 to January 2005) and Ukrainian representative Leonid Kuchma- ussian Ambassador to Ukraine and Russian representative Mikhail Zurabov- Rebel heads Alexander Zakharchenko and Igor PlotnitskyIn 1989 the Berlin Wall came down but the end of the Cold War came in 1991 when the USSR ceased to exist.  As far as I remember, perhaps incorrectly, it was Gorbachov's time when he was famous for his terms "peristroika" and "glasnost".I will never forget 9 November 1989 when the wall came down.  We had just come back from a trip in France, turned the TV on and were absolutely gobsmacked to see the news!Perhaps you are correct in saying the West became complacent after the end of the Cold War.  As the saying goes, the victors write history....But is also very true to say that, thanks to the EEC, the EC and the EU, Europe enjoyed over 70 years of peace....  Not an achievement to be poo pooed....  Having a European market was, as far as I am aware, something that both Churchill and Thatcher encouraged and praised... You say:  "There is no difference whatsoever between Soviet-apologist Corbynites blaming "the West" for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and Remainers blaming Brexit or Trump. To describe these assertions as tenuous would be an affront to tenuousness. You are useful idiots for Putin."  I am not too sure where you got this from (perhaps of the historical conservative vs labour???).  Remainers and Brexiteers are an illusion of your imagination.  Perhaps the idiots that are useful for Putin are those who have no idea of British history?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1439d

Well said Adam!👏🏻Nice to see you back on the forum.

Sue Hammond ● 1439d

Always good to have someone write the truthThanks Adam

Nick Gulliford ● 1439d

Congratulations, Michael, on being the first on this forum to blame Putin's invasion of Ukraine on Brexit. How inventive of you.Putin first invaded Ukraine when Barack Obama was President, due to that man's catastrophic foreign policy that, among other tragedies, encouraged democratic uprisings in the Middle East only to stand aside while their regimes cracked down on the protesters. That did doing absolutely nothing while Syria used chemical weapons on its own people. If you want the first example of when Putin realised that western concepts of International Law (always a fictitious concoction) would never be enforced other than on the occasional weak African crook, that was it. Who sided with, and has kept the criminal Syrian regime in power? Putin.During President Trump's term of office, Russia made no attempts to invade anywhere. That will no doubt be ascribed by Trump haters as him being in Putin's pocket (though surely Putin could've done anything he liked if that were so?) But perhaps the fact Trump was unpredictable and gave the impression at least of being willing to wield America's military might disproportionately, prevented Russian aggression?And now, again, we have another useless Democrat President in the US - and lo, Putin's up to his old manoeuvres, encouraged by Biden's disastrous unilateral withdrawal from Afghanistan. It's Biden who failed to consult his NATO allies over Afghanistan, it's Biden who has shown he's not got the stomach for fighting "foreign wars" and it's Biden that has clung to the US obsession with trying to turn Europe into a replica of the United States even though the pitiful, corrupt and undemocratic EU is utterly useless at pretty much everything it turns its hand to.Britain leaving the EU hasn't weakened it - because that would imply that the EU was "strong" beforehand. The EU is not, and never has been a player in defence or geopolitics. Thank goodness - those would be further areas for it to fail at, while further asset-stripping its member states of sovereignty and accountability. France has, however, weakened NATO by trying to establish the ludicrous "euro army". If NATO has been "brain dead" (it wasn't) look to grotesque egotistical nightmares like Putin's bitch Macron.Which European NATO members fail to spend 2% of their GDP on defence (a figure in itself that looks woefully small all of a sudden)? Not the UK. Where's Germany (other than on the board of Gasprom, that is)? Where's Italy, Spain, Portugal and Denmark? All dramatically below 2%. You may loathe Trump - so do I, for the record - but that doesn't make him wrong in asking why Europe expected the US to pay for its protection when its own member states refuse to stump up.Was it the UK that has consistently prevented Ukraine arming itself? No, again Germany. Which countries would veto Ukraine joining NATO? Again, not the UK. Look to your beloved EU.Was it the UK that tried to impose upon sovereign Ukraine the Minsk accords that would have given Russia direct control over the country through its grip on those so-called breakaway areas in the east? Nope - again, France and Germany.Ever since 1989, the West (collectively - this isn't about remainers and leavers, Tories or Labour, Europeans or non Europeans) has been ludicrously complacent in assuming that it had won the Cold War, that Russia's leadership would not be seething with humiliation at its loss of territory almost overnight, that the failure to embed democracy there would create despots like Putin, that democracy and freedom were universally established values we no longer had to fight for and that the arrow of history arced towards us.Well, we've enjoyed thirty years of that misapprehension. It's over now.There is no difference whatsoever between Soviet-apologist Corbynites blaming "the West" for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and Remainers blaming Brexit or Trump. To describe these assertions as tenuous would be an affront to tenuousness. You are useful idiots for Putin.

Adam Gray ● 1439d

What on earth are you talking about. As if this is the PMs fault. Why would a war in Ukraine make the PM more popular here?

Andy Pike ● 1439d

Maggie had the Falklands, Blair Iraq and now Boris has his Ukraine get out card. Some people roll in s$$t and come up smelling of roses. He is one of them.

Lucille Grant ● 1439d

"I don't think Putin is unbalanced, I think he is carefully calculating his moves just like a chess player in order to annex most or all of Ukraine."I do think his cunning is frightening but he certainly is as unbalanced as Hitler was.I should think it will be to Xi Jinping you scratch my (Putin's) back and I'll scratch yours.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1439d

As for RT, it's one of the few broadcasting outlets where viewers can go for some truths, so that has to go, and leave the corrupt BBC to continue with the propaganda unchallenged.

Michael Brown ● 1439d

this is what I posted on 25th Jan on a party-gate thread...if only Boris had a good old fashioned war to divert all the attention away from the incredible hypocrisy of No.10, now let me have a look at a map...Uruguay, no, Uganda, no, Ukraine???

Adam Tripp ● 1439d

That level of destruction, off the top of my head, sounds likely to have as bad effects as a limited nuclear exchange. It would also affect a lot of uninvolved nations. In fact, Russia might suffer quite a lot, wouldn't it?Samson and the Pillars of the Temple of Dagon?

David Ainsworth ● 1439d

Yes, I took him to be saying he's prepared to use nuclear weapons.I watched much of his speech on Sky and noted his repeated mention of Lenin and Stalin, and how Ukraine is part of Russia. Odd that he didn't mention the collectivisation of the kulaks and the resulting famine. I didn't think he came over as totally sane, but neither were Stalin and Hitler.About six years ago a friend and I took a trip to the Baltic capitals. A travel agent booked our flights, hotels and bus transfers between the towns, and then we did our own thing.In Tallinn we visited the town museum and had an interesting conversation with the pleasant woman selling entrance tickets. She said she had joined the human chain in 1991. She was working for a hotel at the time and staff were given time off to participate.Then we walked through the town, reading all the plaques on merchants' houses. We came to the town square and read a plaque saying that in April 1944 the Soviets bombed the town  causing devastation and killing however many people, I forget the numberSuddenly I became aware that someone was beside me and bawling over and over in my ear "ne pravda".  I know 3 words in Russian, one of which is pravda. I turned and saw a little old woman, incandescent, shouting repeatedly.  I thought she was going to deck me out.  Eventually she retreated across the square, still shouting.I suppose she lurked in the square, waiting for hapless tourists to pass by.  My friend and I were quite shaken. I thought she looked early 80s, in which case she would have remembered it. My friend thought early 70s, in which case she would have heard it from her parents, as I heard about the bombing of my home town from my and friends' parents.I think the Russian heritage population of Estonia is about 25%, so I wonder if there could be Putin's next move in his drive to restore the Soviet Union.  As they say, you can take the man out of the KGB but you can't take the KGB out of the man.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1439d

Michael (Ixer) I dont think he was hinting at nuclear weapons, I think Russia probably has a small number of satellite-killers orbiting earth which he would use to destroy our global communication and spying capability. I also think he would destroy the network of subterranean internet cables - this is a well known threat. Put these 2 actions together and you can see how Putin is probably not talking nuclear.

Adam Tripp ● 1439d

Putin's had enough of Western aggression disguised as liberation, and the US with its 800 global missile bases, acting as 'peacekeeper'. He's had enough of NATO, pretending to be a defence organisation when it's clearly an offence organisation, as it aggressively expands. He's been pushed and pushed, and he's had enough now, and is kicking ass.

Michael Brown ● 1439d

Russia doesnt need military support from China, however Putin has been creating stronger and stronger political and economic ties with China for years. If NordStream1 becomes a causality, I am sure Putin has China as a potential customer for even more Russian gas which China will use to power its economy to feed the West's insatiable appetite for Chinese goods...

Adam Tripp ● 1439d

Adam.  I don't know, that's why I posed it as a question. He's certainly calculating, like a chess player, but of course some chess players have had their personality issues if I remember correctly? His threats seem to hint at being prepared to use nuclear weapons and I can't believe anyone who is prepared to use nuclear or thermonuclear weapons knowing the effect of relatively "small" ones in Japan is sane?Yes, China et al may see this as an opportunity to make their own moves.

Michael Ixer ● 1439d

If Putin accepts help from China, it will place Russia as the weaker of the two "partners". I don't think that can be part of Putin's plan - unless he truly is deranged.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1439d

Will China help Russia?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1439d

I dont think Putin is unbalanced, I think he is carefully calculating his moves just like a chess player in order to annex most or all of Ukraine. Meanwhile, as the eyes of the world are focused on Ukraine, will we see opportunism elsewhere? Will China make a move on Taiwan for example? Will North Korea flex their muscles? Will Israel settle some old scores?

Adam Tripp ● 1439d

I agree Michael.I think Putin's sanity and ambition are in question, not his intelligence.  He is desperate to return to USSR times and conquer more lands. His cunning is frightening.Trump's comments the other day by praising Putin's "genius" for moving troops into Ukraine is treason at the very least as was his wish to dismantle NATO.  Johnson and Trump are insane in equal measure, one for weakening NATO and the other for weakening the EU.I fear Putin's next moves, and by this I mean moves against which other countries.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 1440d

Ivonne, yes, it's very sad for Ukraine and its people, whatever their politicians may or may not have done since independence putting civilians at risk can't be the answer. However, while I agree Putin in a cunning operator and his intelligence certainly out rates Trump and Johnson who weakened NATO and the EU respectively to the delight of Putin, I'd question his overall intelligence. Would any intelligent (and sane?) individual initiate a military action that at one misstep by any of the parties involved coud flare up into the third world war and the use of nuclear weapons - and end up as a war criminal bigger than Hitler? He may have some genuine concerns about NATO, and Russians in Ukraine, etc but is this the action of a balance individual?And, I agree, in a democracy it may be useful to keep RT broadcasting and for Ofcom just to issue them with massive fines when the transgress the line of impartiality? And I expect Salmon needs the money ...

Michael Ixer ● 1440d

I feel so sad and worried for the Ukrainians. This ghastly man called them brothers and has ordered his troops to kill them?Perhaps the invasion was not unexpected but yes it was shocking and horrifying to watch the news. I also think that Putin wants to take all the Eastern European countries back under his wing.... Putin unfortunately is highly intelligent and incredibly cunning - is their a match in the West for such a man who believes himself as the Genghis Khan of the XXI century?I think the main mistake made by the West was not to accept Ukraine into NATO in 2014. Very worrying times indeed.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1440d

Did the West really think that Putin would do nothing when faced with Ukraine wanting to join Nato? Was annexing Crimea not enough of a warning? sad yes, unexpected no.PS Boris has instructed ofcom to investigate RT. RT offers a very interesting perspective as to how the Kremlin and the Russian people see the world, I think RT should stay on air.

Adam Tripp ● 1440d

Terrible and desperately sad. Our thoughts are with the people of Ukraine.

Jane Carter ● 1440d

The centre could not hold

Hugh Thompson ● 1440d