Forum Topic

anti vaxers

Obviously it was not stated that they were anti vax but enough of Spurs 1st team have gone down with covid to have the next game postponed   I am all for personal choice but not when it has repercussions on those who stick by the rules  Equally I do not believe that unvaxed pregnant women should be given priority beds in hospital over vacinated ones. I feel quite angry with the selfishness of people demanding their rights

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1517d155 Comments

It’s vaccine free not anti vaxxers. I had many traditional vaccines but not this one…. Interesting debate made  a few good contacts. P

Paul Beer ● 1452d

Boring, they are just repeating the same thing over and over again.

Barbara Stevens ● 1458d

FWIW I think this thread has been overrun by aliens. Just saying.

Lucille Grant ● 1458d

Final word from Mr Beer (what a great surname, would be very welcome in OZ) - As stated earlier, what a magnifficiant  forum discussion, keep up the great work. Gold medal effort

Patrick Barrs ● 1459d

"Truckers from the US - who are only allowed into Canada if they are vaccinated - have also joined the massive convoy."(Daily Mail)

David Ainsworth ● 1463d

Mixture of injection protection fanatics and the vaccine free all want unlawful restrictions removed, especially crossing border to the  US

Paul Beer ● 1463d

Tens of thousands of Russian agents parachuted in and stole the lorries, apparently. Putin saves the world, again..

Michael Brown ● 1463d

"The Canadian Trucking Alliance said a great number of the protesters have no connection to the trucking industry, adding they have a separate agenda to push. The alliance notes the vast majority of drivers are vaccinated." (ES)

David Ainsworth ● 1463d

Still the sheeple yearn for dangerous experimental vaccines that are known not to work; but, at least, our health workers are now free of them if they so wish.Meanwhile, the trucker's convoy in Ottowa sends dictator, Trudeau, into hiding fearing for his life. The tide is turning..  😁

Michael Brown ● 1463d

I do believe it is a Gain of Function virus… it has been manipulated which in its self if correct and plenty on the record evidence to back up,  it’’s worrying, and you can’t believe what we are told by the BBC…

Paul Beer ● 1463d

Don’t  believe anything SAGE or WHO and especially our government advise us on. Single narrative debate with most institutions and experts at university’s funded by pharmaceutical grants. The lack of open debate and with any opposition closed See the American doctors alliance and the Barrington declaration both supported by over a million medical & public health scientists. Check Pfizer they will go to court.

Paul Beer ● 1463d

Yeadon again.Scientists are always working on vaccines.  They don't sit around waiting for the need for one.  This was an expected sometime pandemic.  We could have had many more but luckily they never escaped into the general population in the way that this one did.  We were unprepared and acted too slowly in reacting to it.

Philippa Bond ● 1463d

Paul:Dr. Mike Yeadon (Former vice-president of respiratory research division, Pfizer)Precisely, virology and epidemiology is not Dr Yeadon's area of expertise. It's not mine, but I'm comfortable following those whose area it is while keeping a check on other views. In the grand scheme it's better to follow the mainstream, peer reviewed science. Like in cosmology, dark matter isn't proven, but there's no better theory that approximates to the empirical results at present ...

Michael Ixer ● 1463d

The covid vaccines do trigger  the T cells ….obviously I’am only a design and have no training, so relying on my research and  our group meetings with the HART group….. this my interest you .. 20 minutes in….https://rumble.com/vs5cf1-dr.-mike-yeadon-interviewed-by-reiner-fuellmich-and-wolfgang-wodarg.html

Paul Beer ● 1463d

'millions round the world are having serious health issues due to the vaccination programme' (this is the English spelling FYI not program which is American)Where are  your facts to support this hypothesis?

Lucille Grant ● 1463d

Paul. There's a difference between simulate and activate!

Michael Ixer ● 1463d

Hello, I say it once again.mRNA and vector treatments activate the spike protein. This is a totally different from polio and other traditional vaccines , and definitely lacks the years of testing. Todays vaccine are no use especially against new variants  evolving, as they don’t stop you getting or passing on.  I feel safe being vaccine free in today’s situation because of the health issues being flagged up from taking this experimental treatment.  P

Paul Beer ● 1463d

Why aren't you calling for more help and contributing to vaccinate all those who are unlucky enough to have Govts providing free vaccines to them all?  Viruses mutate and will continue to mutate.  So the worst of the viruses could return unless we do more for the rest of the world.  Perhaps you feel that that doesn't concern you?  Only the world is smaller and more interconnected than you may realise and we share a lot more than holidays and work abroad.  Look at the problems caused by just leaving the EU!Presumably as mentioned by others you never grew up with schoolfriends disabled with polio and raised boots and calipers.  It was unusual in my childhood but only because of a successful vaccine programme.  Have you never travelled overseas?  You couldn't travel without having first had all your jabs and vaccinations which were scrutinised on entry to foreign countries.  Many of these our parents took great care to ensure that we had had because they knew what a great step forward they were.

Philippa Bond ● 1464d

That’s a statement. ‘Currently having a great life as a result of the vaccine’.Hopefully you will end  fine in years to come,  but sadly millions around the world  are having serious health issues, due to the vaccination program.

Paul Beer ● 1464d

Not surprising to see you too continuing to make an idiot of yourself whilst simultaneously behaving as a sociopath.I currently am having a great life again as a result of the vaccines. I'm just about to embark on my 3rd foreign holiday in as many months (the snow is good). Free of Bill Gates' instructions and free of fictitious side effects. Meanwhile, I imagine you are continuing to under-achieve and lead a sad uneventful life yet find solace in such delusions as you post here.I have never served in the military, it would not have suited my temperment.

Michael Winstanley ● 1466d

Worth following for David's posts alone :)

Ed Robinson ● 1466d

Three?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1466d

No surprise to see Brigadier Winstanley going the same way as Franny Fred when confronted with the detested truth..

Michael Brown ● 1466d

Why does this guy Beer keep parading his obvious utter ignorance on medical matters on this fringe social media site for all (three of us) to see?

Michael Winstanley ● 1466d

Sean: Very little of that is true, but then you already know that, as a govt stooge Hi. What part of my post do you believe is untrue let me know and I will try and answer….P

Paul Beer ● 1467d

Very little of that is true, but then you already know that, as a govt stooge 

Sean Hodges ● 1467d

All good points. Covid  led to the rapid development of the first approved mRNA vaccines ever used on humans the  biggest vaccination program ever. The actual components of the vaccine for Covid are different for each vaccine and not tested fully over 3 to 5 years but only 68 days…Sorry the definition of what’s a vaccine has been changed in past 2 years …. This is certainly not a classic vaccines such as a smallpox. It’s was actually first called, experimental treatment therapy, but obviously no one would be up for having that…. So we better call it a vaccine…. !!!

Paul Beer ● 1468d

Paul. If one's talking of research, if we consider mRNA techniques then there is something like three decades of research into these innovative vaccines. (For the avoidance of doubt they do meet the definition of a vaccine which I put in a previous post.) So they haven't just been pulled out of a hat in a year, this methodology enables rapid development of new vaccines: literally a life saver in a pandemic. Similarly, Dame Sarah Gilbert (if I remember correctly) designed the Oxford Uni/AZ vaccine over a weekend because she'd spent decades undertaking research.I think it's called progress? I'm typing this post on an Android tablet rather than punching the text onto a deck of 80 column cards like I was doing 50 years ago ...Having said that, I'd agree one needs to be vigilant and ensure industries are being regulated properly to minimise risks; perhaps it's a pity the IT industry doesn't have a body like MHRA to ensure new versions of software are adequately tested before being released? 

Michael Ixer ● 1468d

Sorry, off at a tangent, but you reminded me of my father's account of having unknowingly painted a green horse at school. He got into trouble, despite being colour-blind.

David Ainsworth ● 1468d

Probably wouldn't have been allowed the use of heavy anti-aircraft guns during the Blitz in 1940. The fragments of British AA shells exploding at 15,000 feet (or failing to explode also) could/did cause death and injury to British civilians at ground level.I wonder what would the Internet have said in 1940?

David Ainsworth ● 1468d

Yes Paul, I don't agree or disagree with you. How do we really know, I wasn't very happy about having the 3 jab which was different from the other 2. Mainly because of the medication I am on, also I have had pains in the back of my head and a few other people I know have. All you were told was to take paracetamol.

Barbara Stevens ● 1468d

I will say this once again…. These so called vaccines are not like traditional vaccines…. That is the problem….. please research just a little. It not a vaccine it an experimental treatment that hasn’t been fully tested,

Paul Beer ● 1468d

Yes Ivonne, my aunt had Polio, she wore a caliper on her leg, but lived till about 95. A young lady I was at primary school with also had had it, one of her arms was really thin and the teacher must have been thick, because she told her to do a handstand and the young lady said I can't. She got told to try and fell on her face. I felt so sorry for her. People didn't question years ago they were given all the vaccinations.

Barbara Stevens ● 1468d

Have you never actually read the instructions and warmings inside  the most common of pill packet?

Philippa Bond ● 1468d

Unfortunately because of censorship on YouTube and FB this link will be taken down soon…. Plenty of other social media platforms available to share information government don’t want you to see… Telegram a good place to start…. Phttps://youtu.be/HgGU8QJ0V4I

Paul Beer ● 1468d

Be quick before Youtube take this link down…https://youtu.be/HgGU8QJ0V4I

Paul Beer ● 1468d

Hello Matt. It may be easier to view this clip it’s 24 minutes but explains my concerns on the new vaccines and it’s coding delivery system and how it’s different from the classic vaccines of the past….stick with it, make your own judgment, for me I have been following this investigation for a year and watching it unfold is absolutely terrifying.https://youtu.be/vTrsHUo3QZk

Paul Beer ● 1469d

When is a vaccine not a vaccine? What evidence is there that any Covid vaccine aren't a vaccines? I assume there would need to be evidence for each vaccine (AZ, Pfizer, Moderna, Novavax, Sputnik, Sinovax, etc)? Working with an Oxford Uni definition they all seem to fit the general description: "A vaccine is a type of medicine that trains the body’s immune system so that it can fight a disease it has not come into contact with before. Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it." (https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/how-do-vaccines-work) It is sad that there have been some deaths from vaccination but the numbers are small; unfortunately most medical interventions carry a risk; perhaps one should think twice before taking everyday medications such as aspirin as this seems to carry a higher risk, certainly for older people -  https://www.smh.com.au/world/daily-aspirin-causes-3000-deaths-a-year-in-britain-20170614-gwqxn1.html#:~:text=London%3A%20Taking%20a%20daily%20aspirin,off%20heart%20attacks%20and%20strokes. Also, one of the major symptoms reported from Covid initially included blood clotting - my understanding at quite a high rate so the vaccines appear to reduce the instances of this at far higher magnitudes than the few cases they have caused.On the point abiut research, there are potential issues with research being funded by private individuals' or industry donations, although that can be mitigated by appropriate, rigorous and transparent peer review, but you're possibly making a case for higher taxation to fund more research with independent distribution bya body such as the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council?

Michael Ixer ● 1469d

"It’s not made in the same way the typical vaccine from the past."AZ is, so why won't you have it?

Matt Palmer ● 1469d

Seriously do some research and digging that doesn’t use the BBC  or Google, what I’am seeing doesn’t look as rosey as you state….Anyway don’t want to argue each to there own , take care. P

Paul Beer ● 1469d

Vaccines project you and stop the spreading of the illnesses.This vaccine doesn’t stop you getting sick or passing it on.It’s not made in the same way the typical vaccine from the past .It’s licensed for emergency use only under the because it’s still experimental, trails haven’t been completed, you can only emergency use authorisation  if no other cure exists. That’s why they were trying to suppress all other medications and cures…. Thieve vaccines have been bulldozed through.

Paul Beer ● 1469d

@Ivonne. Very well said indeed. Of course it’ll be water of the unvaccinated backs of the self-important, self satisfied numpties as well we all know. Satisfying to poke them all the same.

Freddie Francis ● 1469d

I do not know how old you are and neither do I care.I remember very clearly when the polio pandemic was around.  In case you are not aware, polio is caused by a virus and highly infectious.I was very young at the time to understand exactly what was going on, but I remember the panic in parents voices.It was in the late 50s and science had not progressed as far as it has today therefore the Salk and Sabin vaccines took years to produce.Once they were produced all parents embraced them with open arms.  I am sure Mary Berry had no hesitation in vaccinating her children against polio and other diseases.There were other frightening contagious diseases to follow, from memory perhaps not very good but chicken pox or small pox in the US but nobody was allowed to drink out of water fountains.Fast forward to today, and any viral infection is frightening more so if it is so life-threatening one.I congratulate the scientists today who have been able to produce a vaccine to help people against COVID and also for having being able to produce a tablet that can be prescribed in future.If you do not like the idea of a vaccine and I assume you are an adult, it is your choice - a suspect one but your choice.But it is certainly not your choice to go around restaurants, pubs, supermarkets and shopping centres, pharmacies, etc. declaring it is your right to infect other people.  Of course the vaccines will be improved with time.  What the COVID vaccines have done is improve people's chances of surviving the disease but not prevent its transmission 100% yet. It will come.You keep saying you have a choice as to be vaccinated or not.  In your case, not to be.  As I said before, a suspect choice, but your choice. Please make sure you steer clear of my path at all times as well as of all those doctors and nurses that went through hell and back since the beginning of 2020 and today they are beyond offended that the patients with COVID in hospital are all non-vaxxers.  Congratulations for your concern for your neighbours and those who can help you overcome problem. Damn you for being so insensitive towards other people as well as so selfish. It is your life, unfortunately, it will affect others.Oh, by the way, did you know that the bubonic plague still exists today, around the world and particularly in rural areas in the US.  Thank goodness for antibiotics!!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1469d

Get a injection otherwise travel restrictions Get a injection or you can’t work for NHS or in health care.Get a injection or we will reduce your sick pay.People haven’t been fully informed about disadvantages and adverse events from the vaccine. It’s not that I disagree, I question truth of the information available.That’s the crime that Pfizer are going to court for, hiding information and not being transparent…. That’s a crime.

Paul Beer ● 1469d

but I seriously object to children being forced to have this nasty injection… that is totally wrong and a crime. As adults we have that choice.No one is forcing you to have your children vaccinated but likewise you have no right to stop others from doing so. You can’t just declare it a crime because you disagree. Many parents are extremely grateful to have their children vaccinated.

Jane Carter ● 1469d

GB News is about the only channel that expresses both sides. Obviously a debate on all covid measures would had been preferable, government decided it was unworkable especially as they labeled it an emergency, time was of the essence. Government took advise from SAGE and it’s extended members which ended up driving government policies remember  most  members of SAGE are connected to a university with research grants or companies with funding from big pharma, Gates, or indirectly Black rock investment group. All other approaches were shut down such as…maybe treat individuals at home who became ill and try to prevent them from hospitalisation, The whole thing is so corrupt with someone above pulling the strings of governments and media outlets. So we have let governments tell us we need this vaccine that’s not a vaccine, the testing program for safety was only passed because of emergency covid laws

Paul Beer ● 1470d

Mainstream!

Michael Brown ● 1470d

Each to their own. If you research there is no shortage of evidence. Personally Iam vaccine free and won’t have this worry for the rest of my life, but I seriously object to children being forced to have this nasty injection… that is totally wrong and a crime. As adults we have that choice.

Paul Beer ● 1470d

When the vaccinations started, there were two cases of allergic reactions to them and fortunately, the people concerned had their adrenalin medication with them.  They had known allergies and they were fine afterwards.This was widely reported at the time.Another thing that was widely reported was the issue of blood clots.  While I agree that Lisa Shaw's death is shocking and most regrettable, it is also true that the incidence of blood clotting was very low indeed.  It was stated at the time that the benefits of the vaccines outweighed the drawbacks.From a truly unscientific "study" (to call it something), all the people I know have been vaccinated and very few had problems with sore arms and one felt unwell for two days.  They are all alive and well today.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1470d

"It’s definitely happening and being hidden"But you are in possession of knowledge that we are denied, or, of course, that we do know but refuse to accept? Is that it?"Being hidden". What would be the point?

David Ainsworth ● 1470d

Or possibly handfuls.

Andy Pike ● 1470d

I hope you are right. Unfortunately so many sudden blood clotting have been flagged up. It’s just very worrying and I totally understand your dismissal. d-dimer lab tests are available in hospitals to show early stages of blood clotting. It’s definitely happening and being hidden BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died of Covid vaccine complications, coroner finds… she is one of possibly thousands.

Paul Beer ● 1470d

Where is the evidence of the booster causing her coma. By evidence i mean hard facts not coincidental timing.There are many on comas who have NOT had a booster so would that coma gave been avoided by a booster? Man had booster and died 2 days later after being run over. Fault booster or car driver?

Andy Pike ● 1470d

Hazel talks of her boostOr: https://hugotalks.com/2022/01/18/singer-hazel-oconnor-in-coma-rccently-had-booster-hugo-talks-lockdown/

Michael Brown ● 1470d

Actually Paul my comment was to John James who said he didnt want an MRNA vaccine

Matt Palmer ● 1470d

Not everyone needs hospital treatment when suffering from Covid. Instead there are thousands of people who have had the virus and are suffering the long term effects of it. Long Covid is no joke. Be grateful that vaccines exist otherwise more people would have died or never fully recovered. Unlike some posters here I  have first hand experience which, lucky for them, they don't.

Lucille Grant ● 1470d

I did reply. Far safer not have any of the vaccines. By all accounts I’am read of unexplained deaths and injuries.Personally our family made the correct decision

Paul Beer ● 1471d

Yes it’s a different delivery service using vector and mRNA but it still delivers genetic coding. Obviously I not trained in this but these this new covid vaccines have been released on emergency use only, I am not comfortable with the quick turnaround and the  testing program. Who knows what may happen in 1 to 5 years, it could well be a very slow over a period of time that harmful affects begin to appear. Far safer not to actually have any of the vaccines, very little chance of being hospitalised and actually dying.

Paul Beer ● 1471d

Lie down Mr Palmer, apparently you've been "crushed" by the most recent iteration.

David Ainsworth ● 1471d

I notice you didnt answer the question about whether you would be happy to take AZ as its not an MRNA vaccine?

Matt Palmer ● 1471d

Hurrah and hooray and hallelujah.  I am happy to be recognised as such.  You can keep throwing insults at me.  The more you do so, the more we know you have lost the argument.

John James ● 1471d

Well put.  I believe in medicine. I also believe that medicine should be used in a targeted way.Look at the overuse of antibiotics and how the body creates a tolerance to them.  The levels then need to be prescribed at a higher rate.

John James ● 1471d

Of course.  Minors only receive freedoms on achieving the age of majority.

John James ● 1471d

A new forum star is born. Franny Fred et al don't know what's hit them..

Michael Brown ● 1471d

Your decision Paul, but does that mean you're more comfortable with the AZ vaccine which is a modified adenovirus not an mRNA one?

Michael Ixer ● 1471d

I seriously think we over estimate the advantage of taking this mRNA treatment therapy, approved on covid emergency license only and definitely not tested to the normally high standards of traditional vaccines. If you can do without don’t take it would be my preference…. I have absolutely no medical or science training like everyone one else on this tread, so I know only what I researched , remember  we can’t trust Google or the BBC to give an accurate account…..enjoy your Sunday…P

Paul Beer ● 1471d

Actually, there hasn't always been freedom of decision regarding vaccination, at least, not for children:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_Act

Michael Ixer ● 1471d

Gosh.  Nice use of the shift key. That’s exactly my point.  I am free.  The criticism on here is all one way.  Have I  criticised you for your vaccine stance?  No.  When have I ever denied you your thought?  Never is the answer.  It is the judgement that I abhor.  Everyone has opinions, that is good.  No one has the right to judge others for their views.  Just read the opening topic.  No basis in fact, just an assumption.

John James ● 1472d

"I have freedom of thought and speech. I intend to keep it that way. "If you have freedom of thought and speech, why do you deny it to others? You write "We all have different priorities. It is NOT FOR ANYONE to criticise or judge others in that regard."

David Ainsworth ● 1472d

Where do you live?  In this country we have always had bodily autonomy.  I have freedom of thought and speech.  I intend to keep it that way.    I am not the one who is being rude and critical.

John James ● 1472d

"You have quite happily surrendered your right to have bodily autonomy."How can anyone surrender something that they never had?"We all have different priorities. It is not for anyone to criticise or judge others in that regard." So much for "freedom of thought" and "freedom of speech".That will blow out most of this Forum.

David Ainsworth ● 1472d

Why do you care?  You have quite happily surrendered your right to have bodily autonomy. We all have different priorities.  It is not for anyone to criticise or judge others in that regard.

John James ● 1472d

Meatloaf, to use his stage name, apparently had other conditions that, as well as his age, would put him in the "vulnerable" category. If he did have Covid - and I don't think that has been announced officially yet - there's a good chance vaccination would have boosted his immune system enough to give him a fighting chance but we'll probably never know for sure. Still, his choice. Somewhat ironic that a virus which might have come from bats probably got him: the ultimate bat out of hell?Personally, as I'm not far from his age I'm for boosting my immune system with the vaccine so I can have a life while I'm still healthy but also mitigate the risk of illness. Doesn't mean I won't be careful: mask, distancing , regular LFTs but I'm not going to sit at home if I don't need to. Who said the vaccines hadn't been tested? I know people who participated in the vaccine trials so that's misinformation.

Michael Ixer ● 1472d

"So ... we don't really have rights then."From where do they come?

David Ainsworth ● 1472d

First:  choosing not to take a covid vaccine does not someone anti-vax.  Second: when it my become my duty to pass my bodily autonomy over to Boris?Third: if the vaccine is as good as you think then you are safe and protected.  Why should it matter to you what others chose?  Fourth:  I trust that your judgemental status extends to those who drink excessively, who smoke excessively, who take drugs, who drive recklessly. They are putting society at risk more than me. 

John James ● 1472d

Well put.  I’m enjoying this thread!

John James ● 1472d

No.  I simply do not wish to take a vaccine.  I have a well-functioning immune system.  When it gives up I shall die. That is life.  We are allowed to make our own choices.  Don’t judge me.  I am not judging you for taking a vaccine.

John James ● 1472d

You are twisting the facts. You also choose to overlook the fact that I am not judging people in the way that you are.  My point is that we should all be free to choose whether we take a vaccine or not. People who take a vaccine are not bad people, and people don’t take the vaccine are not bad people.  That is the decent and civilised approach.

John James ● 1472d

RR: Of course you have rights. You also have duties. That's the point you and so many anti-vaxers are missing.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1472d

I didn't say I wouldn't wear a mask. I do, I socially distance, stay away from cafes/restaurants & shops (where unecessary) and I observe good hygeine. From what I see of people in the street, given the majority are vaxxed, people have gone back to hugging one another when greeting and getting back in each others' faces.

Roy Robart ● 1472d

Tried to let it drop and just pass on by, but can't help but comment on the absurdity of the original post: "I feel quite angry with the selfishness of people demanding their rights." So ... we don't really have rights then.

Roy Robart ● 1472d

So you are saying that there is an untested vaccine which you do not wish to take?

David Ainsworth ● 1472d

Read the news. Died of COVID. Wouldn’t wear a mask or have the vaccine. A gamble with a not so great result. But hey. You know best don’t you.

Freddie Francis ● 1472d

Mr Loaf was 74.  Whatever it was that he died of, dying at that age is hardly a shock.  Sad for his family and those who loved him, of course. We are allowed to die.  I know that Sage thinks otherwise, but dying is a fact of life.

John James ● 1472d

And here is your problem:You assume that because I choose to receive an untested potion that I am anti-vax.

John James ● 1472d

That ‘I know best’ attitude went well for Meat Loaf didn’t it.

Freddie Francis ● 1473d

"No one has any power over what I put in my body."So you have never had a vaccination in your life? And do you know exactly what every item of food and drink which you consume consists of? And the air?Do you respect the "bodily autonomy" of others?

David Ainsworth ● 1473d

I love it.  You are so typical.  Your narrow view is challenged so you get silly.    I don’t claim to be a genius.  I just believe in bodily autonomy.  I certainly don’t believe that Boris has the right to  dictate an alleged medical procedure. I know my body better than anyone.  Everyone should know their bodies, apart from you apparently.  Why did you surrender your body and brain to medical experimentation? It is my body. It is my choice.  No one has any power over what I put in my body.

John James ● 1473d

Another genius who, according to him, knows more about his body than the trained medics: a walking Darwin Award.I just hope you don’t break a leg, have a heart attack or contract meningitis, say, because your supposed “knowledge” won’t be much help then, will it?

Richard Carter ● 1473d

Congratulations to all of us who are standing firm against government coercion, employers’ bully-boy tactics, family pressure and MSM hectoring.  I shall never succumb to a state vaccine (think about how chilling that is).  I know my body better than Whitty, Ferguson, Vallance, Van Tam etc.

John James ● 1473d

Hear, hear. More beer, please, more beer..

Michael Brown ● 1473d

Sorry that’s simply not true.. When you do some research and that’s not asking Google and watch the BBC you find the vaccine doesn’t stop your catching or transmission. I Know more people suffering from suspected vaccine damage and death, I actually don’t know anyone who’s went to hospital because of COVID. It’s has to be a choice we don’t live in China  yet do we, and don’t believe everything government tell you. Best P

Paul Beer ● 1473d

Roy Roberts: Your protests don't address a key (indeed a central) issue: selfishness. You appear not to understand that you have a duty to others, as well as to yourself. By remaining unvaccinated you imperil those with whom you are in contact. That is why the unvaccinated commit a social offence. Or do you, like Margaret Thatcher, contend that there is no such thing as society?

Alexander MacLeod ● 1476d

I totally agree, Freddie. Some of these anti vaxxers are really dangerous; going in to schools and threatening staff and pupils with photos of dead children. I am not accusing Beer of doing this but he has not condemned it. Nobody is forcing him to be vaccinated and he should not be trying to stop others from doing so.

Jane Carter ● 1477d

At the very least it stops you getting Ill enough to need hospital treatement and hog a bed required for someone with a serious complaint. You clearly don’t appreciate what that means and persist in promoting your pathetic agenda. Seriously, how difficult is it to wear a mask, never mind a jab, which nobody I know has had any side effects from, for god’s sake? Since that’s your choice I would ask you keep your dangerous opinions to yourself.

Freddie Francis ● 1477d

Is it safe? Does it stop you getting Covid?Does it stop you passing on Covid? Millions who had covid have the best natural vaccine protection covid antibodies.

Paul Beer ● 1477d

Blimey, this post has proven to me!!! - the value of this forum - Keep up the great work - A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves

Patrick Barrs ● 1494d

Roy, as a matter of interest, are you against all Covid vaccines or are there just specific ones using a particular type of technology that you object to?

Michael Ixer ● 1494d

Wow. Some sweeping generalisations and assumptions on this thread. Last I knew, we did have a choice and that IS our human right. For the record, the reason I haven't had the vax is not through 'selfishness' - indeed, I had all the usual vaccines in the past. I'm simply anti-THIS-vax, so don't throw me in with those you perceive to be tinfoil hat-wearing nutters. I have my reasons and you've probably heard them all. I respect anyone's decision to have it, so don't condemn me for mine or blame me for current cases - the triple-jabbed are perfectly capable of catching/carrying/transmitting the virus all on their own. I'm not the one going out and mixing with others who believe they're immune.

Roy Robart ● 1494d

While one is looking at mitigations for Covid beyond or in conjunction with vaccines, it's interesting that one of the Zoe studies highlights the benefits of vegan/plant based diets. It is emphasised that it's talking about health vegan diets. One suspects that wouldn't include some vegan junk food meat substitutes high in sugar and salt content but means fresh fruit, salads and veg with lots of pulses. And I wouldn't recommend it as a substitute for vaccines!https://viva.org.uk/health/campaigns/slash-the-risk/https://viva.org.uk/health/health-research/combatting-covid-19/

Michael Ixer ● 1509d

I'm not sure it's correct that the vaccinations don't have "any" effect on transmissions of the virus. Firstly, the vaccines had efficacy rates ranging between 70-80% so those individuals where the vaccines prevented infections didn't have the virus to pass it onto others; secondly, even where vaccinated individuals still caught the virus although the vaccines may not have reduced transmissions directly the fact that vaccinated people had less serious infections mean that they would normally have lower viral loads and been infectious for shorter periods so there may have been an indirect reduction in transmissions. (Although there is a danger that if they were so less seriously infected that they were asymptotic they may have inadvertently passed it on without realising it: that's why test, test, test, ... is so important!) Obviously, the new omicron variant is significantly different and lowers the efficacy of the vaccines but still guards against serious illness, particularly after a booster shot. That will be the case until the vaccines are updated. There's also a need to minimise the incubation on new variants by increasing global vaccination programmes.

Michael Ixer ● 1509d

"There is no logic to taking more jabs, when the 2 you have previously taken haven't had ANY effect on transmissibility or contagion of the "disease."but they DO reduce your chances of dying massively, isn't that worth it?

Matt Palmer ● 1509d

So David, by that gem of info we can take it as read that you know exactly what is in EVERY thing you put in your body or on it, having previously got your microscope out to check for 'critters' (reassuringly you didn't include those ludicrous nano-bots so you must be serious, unless your microscope isn't strong enough to detect them of course). You are a seriously impressive person. Surely you are a scientist or an emeritus professor of some kind? eh?

Freddie Francis ● 1509d

People seem easily confused around the jab issues. It is very difficult to persaude people that jabs are not the "way out."There is no logic to taking more jabs, when the 2 you have previously taken haven't had ANY effect on transmissibility or contagion of the "disease." In fact you only need to speak to any nurse to find out that jabbed people in general "shed" the contents of their jab over a peiod of time and can make others ill as a result. I say to people.. "If you had a vial of the jab and you looked at the contents under a microscope and you saw 'critters' doing the backstroke going in different directions. Would you want it injected into your body?" Therein lies the problem: Those that take the jab don't seem to know what's actually in it and defend their decision to have it blindly.

David Nugent ● 1509d

Re: the Spurs team, although I appreciate that the discussion has moved on... I think there is concern amongst professional sportsmen/women, who push their bodies to an extreme level, about whether the vaccines have contributed to an apparent rise in recent cardiac events during matches. Undoubtedly it's pure coincidence.And it is also very apparent that people are getting infected in huge numbers who have already maxxed out on their vaccines so I'm not sure that we can draw any conclusions about their vaccine status from the fact that they are infected. There is this bizarre notion that getting a vaccine stops you getting infected. It doesn't. It can't. Hopefully it can affect the outcome of your illness but it's not some magic bubble.

Robert Bridge ● 1509d

I clearly am missing the point as I see nothing in Barbara's post that mentions pregnant Jewish women.If you are making a connection to spurs postponement I think you are way off beam. That to me is more a comment about selfish millionaire footballers not having the vaccination. QPR are postponed tonight, Looks like Man u will be later in the week so the connection there is? You will also notice in my earlier post my horror that folk on here actually believe that unvaccinated pregnant mothers should be denied maternity unit treatment.

Andy Pike ● 1513d

Dear All and in particular Andy Pike, Lucille Grant,This is a classic case of some not thinking before they post, especially when you were to read the original post from Barbara Shillabeer (Added Below), you'd see that nothing has been changed aside from the values place before each human group. Unvaxed = Jewish.Vaxed = Christian. Basically Gabriel was doing a parody on Barbara Shillabeer's words and replaced medical status with religions. This is a Shock and Awe post and it's done that very well when you read the responses. They've decided not to address the OP's words, rather now there's a discussion on Forum rules and anti-Semitism being alive in Putney, but this is a Labour seat now, so yeah. Anyway, I'll leave the two post's below as close together so you can all read what was being implied at the time of posting. :ORIGINAL: Obviously it was not stated that they were anti vax but enough of Spurs 1st team have gone down with covid to have the next game postponed  I am all for personal choice but not when it has repercussions on those who stick by the rules  Equally I do not believe that unvaxed pregnant women should be given priority beds in hospital over vacinated ones. I feel quite angry with the selfishness of people demanding their rights :ORIGINAL: :GABRIEL THORNE'S: I am all for personal choice but not when it has repercussions on those who stick by the rules.Equally I do not believe that JEWISH pregnant women should be given priority beds in hospital over CHRISTIAN ones.I feel quite angry with the selfishness of people demanding their (equal) rights.It's not 1942 Germany, it's not April 1st, the people you're hating are the same race you are. Humans, with an immune system and a personal choice in a free country. :GABRIEL THORNE'S:

Thomas Jones ● 1513d

Isn't the real problem the shortage of hospital beds? As I've noted before the aim of mitigating the risks of covid sickness is to reduce the saturation of hospitals with serious cases. I'm not sure about the details of the pregnant women that's been raised but I suspect those who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch a more serious case of Covid and require hospitalisation? I see there's been comparisons with 'flu on this or another thread; however, looking at this article flu appears to have a significantly lower death rate - and presumably hospitalisation rate - and a lowers R0 number. I've only had time to do a quick search so I'm sure there's a more up-to-date analysis but I haven't got time to search for one at present. https://www.qps.com/2020/10/05/covid-19-versus-the-seasonal-flu-facts-and-figures/(I was completely lost by the post discussing Jewish v Christian hospitalisations. Agreed, it appeared racist although I note Matt's point that it might be poorly worded - judging by the time of the post perhaps made after consuming too much of some liquid or other substance? But perhaps something better left unsaid and removed?)  

Michael Ixer ● 1513d

Yes Barbara Covid would put a strained system under more pressure.An interesting article here - especially the last paragraph that I have pastedMidwife numbers drop in latest NHS report."On the issue of the midwifery shortage, it is worth noting – as we look at the workforce numbers – that it has been 11 years since then Conservative leader David Cameron promised as the 2010 general election approached to boost midwife numbers by 3,000. The following year, in 2011, Channel 4 News revealed how the election pledge had already been abandoned. Now, a further 10 years on, the Conservatives are still to boost midwife numbers by this much, after more than a decade in power."https://www.rcm.org.uk/news-views/rcm-opinion/2021/midwife-numbers-drop-in-latest-nhs-report/

Ed Robinson ● 1513d

Ed  Don't split hairs  The situation was as it was and got worse..and then there was covid  A fact

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1513d

Barbara there has been a shortage of midwives for decades. Which was due to lack of investment.Many midwives would also have also returned to the EU due to how Brexit was implemented under May and later Johnson.

Ed Robinson ● 1514d

Re vacinated and unvacinated pregnant women.When covid first appeared there was little information re treatment and repercussions if pregnant  It was advised'wait and see'  We now have more knowledge.  Everyone made their choice.The problem is, those who chose not to and became infected took priority over those who had booked beds as per normal and were now displaced  This is partly why, not totally, obviously, why there is a shortage of midwives.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1514d

Freddie, most on here are intelligent and know when to stop arguing, or it's got boring. But as you will probably remember a couple of years ago, there were a couple of really nasty women on here actually really nasty and aggressive. One even offered to meet me over a park. I think they are the sort who need banning.

Barbara Stevens ● 1514d

There’s NOBODY watching this forum. There may be an automatic removal set up for certain words but as the owners run this is site on an absolute shoestring I have zero faith in any form of oversight of this place. It’s the Wild West of local forums.

Freddie Francis ● 1514d

In my mind it is simple, either you believe in the NHS principles of universal health care or do not.If there has to be rationing it should be based on outcomes not on social decisions.Clearly some people would throw the principles of the NHS out the window.But how long before the goal posts move and they themselves find that they are on the wrong side of the newly drawn line?It is a slippery slope - a back door to removing universal health care.A reminder: Pensions are paid out of current taxation, most of the UK's assets have been sold and the country is in huge debt. Whilst the country has been fixated on immigration - we should actually be concerned about emigration. It is the younger generations who are going to carry that debt - many laden with high rents and universities fees.Let's hope the younger generations do not start thinking: Why should they pay my taxes and change my behaviour for older folk when they are statistically least likely to be impacted by Covid!

Ed Robinson ● 1514d

Here's another excellent website for the sceptics amongst us: Birds Aren't Real. Makes you think, doesn't it? https://birdsarentreal.com/

Richard Carter ● 1514d

Well, well, well. Anti semitism alive and well and living in Putney.And where is your proof Gabriel that pregnant Jewish women get preference ove Christians?

Lucille Grant ● 1514d

I took it at worst case initially and then figured that maybe the post just meant that everyone deserved equal rights?If it's meant as you've taken it Andy then I certainly agree that it's digusting and should be removed.

Matt Palmer ● 1514d

What the F ?? Have any invigilators read that post from Gabrielle. Anti semitism at its very worst  surely it should be removed and the contributor banned.The great and good of Putney obviously see nowt wrong with it.

Andy Pike ● 1514d

I am all for personal choice but not when it has repercussions on those who stick by the rules. Equally I do not believe that JEWISH pregnant women should be given priority beds in hospital over CHRISTIAN ones. I feel quite angry with the selfishness of people demanding their (equal) rights.It's not 1942 Germany, it's not April 1st, the people you're hating are the same race you are. Humans, with an immune system and a personal choice in a free country.

Gabriel Thorne ● 1515d

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/12/10/scientific-evidence-suggests-the-covid-vaccines-reprogram-the-innate-immune-system/Interesting study, I like to live on the side of caution,  in is no long term study on how these vaccines will affect your bodies immune system. I personally am please myself and family and close friends have decided to wait. Covid 19 is a an illness that  99% of it deaths over over 84 with serious health issues. The vaccine has no long test records and the Yellow card scheme with it’s poor take up of 1% has thousands of serious illnesses and hundreds of deaths. I would also point out CDC in American has records of massive serious illnesses and deaths. I would be pleased to here your views …. Stay safe… p

Paul Beer ● 1515d

Paul, you’re offended. Great. Job done. Sorry you had to drag your friend onto it to try and win your argument.

Freddie Francis ● 1515d

Covid bio-weapon vaccines don't fare so well under all cause mortality stats:

Michael Brown ● 1515d

Freddie I find your comments offensive, having a friend who directly passed away due to immune system being compromised. Please grow up and realise what exactly is happening…… Sunday 11am Stand in the Wandsworth Park….pop along and let’s chat…. Best P

Paul Beer ● 1515d

The nonsense and claptrap being spouted to turn people against vaccination is nothing to laugh at. You are correct.

Freddie Francis ● 1515d

I wish it was a laughing matter….on to serious matters….Wandsworth park every Sunday 11am we meet up to talk over your issues from lockdown loneliness to say no to Vaccine passports.  We are a  small group of  18 plus  please pop along … 11am. Sunday’s Wandsworth Park .https://www.astandinthepark.org/STAY POSITIVE.

Paul Beer ● 1515d

I wish it was a laughing matter….on to serious matters….Wandsworth park every Sunday 11am we meet up to talk over your issues from lockdown loneliness to say no to Vaccine passports.  We are a  small group of  18 plus  please pop along … 11am. Sunday’s Wandsworth Park .https://www.astandinthepark.org/STAY POSITIVE.

Paul Beer ● 1515d

I don't know what the alternative is to be honest :(It's a tricky situation, we have a 12 year old at school in an ever diminishing class size as more and more kids in his year test positive. Doesn't feel like a great place to be and essentially feel like we are just waiting our turn now.

Matt Palmer ● 1515d

Isn’t Google (I’ll read that as the internet in general) and YouTube exactly the place conspiracy theorists and general nut jobs and kooks get ALL their claptrap from? Or should we be looking on the dark web? Maybe the bloke down the pub? Heaven forbid someone like a doctoy or a scientist! 🤔

Freddie Francis ● 1515d

What I am saying is don’t go directly to MSM or Google for your information… do some digging … that’s doesn’t involve the BBC… stay safe.

Paul Beer ● 1515d

So you are saying that the scientists who say this vaccines are safe are only approving it because they take all their info from ‘MSM’. Mick, is that you? 😂

Freddie Francis ● 1515d

It very important to understand the term correctly when debating.Covid-19 injections are experimental therapies being deployed under emergency use authorisation (EUA). They are not fully approved by any regulatory body and have not undergone the complete review process required for full approval. It Vaccine Free not anti vaxxers.Final point resent studies have shown Vaccination has been shown to comprise your immune system . Obviously this is something you will not see in MSM

Paul Beer ● 1516d

Matt, I realise LFTs have their limitations but mass PCR testing probably isn't viable? What's the alternative, more restrictions? I see it as reducing risk, I suppose everyone has to determine their own risk appetite, although if someone's is too high and causes excessive transmission that will affect others. 

Michael Ixer ● 1516d

the problem with LFT tests is that you need a decent level of covid in you for it to generate a positive result. The vaccine often surpresses it to the point where you can get a false negative an on LFT and then a positive on a PCR.

Matt Palmer ● 1516d

Yes, agreed, Matt. That's why I noted that more use of LFTs  in conjunction with vaccination might be needed? The omicron variant is changing the data; are we heading for further restrictions - or stricter guidance?

Michael Ixer ● 1516d

Yes i'm perfectly aware the vaccine isnt 100% effective and i'm triple jabbed. My point is that the covid pass appears to be designed to stop unvaccinated going in a spreading it when in fact you can still do that even when jabbed. Gives rather a false sense of security if you ask me.

Matt Palmer ● 1516d

Matt. A couple of points. Firstly, no, the vaccine isn't a 100% effective - no vaccine is - however, it does significantly reduce the risk associated of catching previous variants and, although it may be less effective against the omicron varant, the current opinion is it is still more effective than being unvaccinated, although the reduction in efficacy is still being determined. Also, it is likely if one is vaccinated and has milder symptoms one's viral load will be less and hence that will reduce transmission. Secondly, it might be that LFTs need to be given more importance. Perhaps if one's out and about an LFT every, say, 3 days might be mandated if one's vaccinated, and ever day if your unvaccinated? And make them free only if you're vaccinated or exempt for medical reasons? :-) Remember, it's about reducing risk not eliminating risk; nothing is 100% safe - that I can think of! 

Michael Ixer ● 1516d

not at all, deffo pro jab got my third last night like the good sheeple i am!

Matt Palmer ● 1516d

Sorry. Misread your post. Didn't spot the point was about the pass. Thought you meant the vax.

Freddie Francis ● 1516d

hmmm i thought it was about stopping people who are potentially infected with covid getting into a venue?

Matt Palmer ● 1516d

I thought that IF you did get COVID and you fell sick with it the severity was far less, meaning you’d most likely not need hospital treatment and clog a bed. That’s the main reason as far as I’m aware.

Freddie Francis ● 1516d

without wanting to sound like an anti-vaxxer, coz i'm really not!I do have a small amount of sympathy with the 'what is the point of a covid pass if people who are double jabbed can still carry the virus and infect others?' viewpointI appreciate its a reduced risk etc but the fact is the vaccine doesnt stop you getting it or passing it on.

Matt Palmer ● 1516d

Yeh it was a very smooth operation in Belgium too. You can also print a copy of the covid passport so that should help those who do not have smart phone.

Gabrielle OMahony ● 1516d

"mandatory maths and science lessons!"Excellent idea. Except you'd have to go down the US education route and not allow them to 'graduate' until they got their GCSE. I'd be fine with that.

Freddie Francis ● 1516d

Given that venues often have have to check people's ids for age and search for weapons or drugs scanning a covid pass doesn't seem much of an additional chore. I was at a lunch event yesterday where scanning covid passes didn't seem to add much time to the check in process (ok, it was an invite only lunch where the venue required a covid pass and photo id). It's not a way of enforcing vaccination because one can do an at home LFT to obtain a covid pass; that hardly invasive. The only problem is it possibly highlights the digital divide for those unable to use or with limited access to digital technology.I must admit I'd be uncomfortable going down a mandatory vaccination route, it might lead to a stronger backlash? Perhaps we need to introduce mandatory maths and science lessons!

Michael Ixer ● 1516d

There has to come a time where we say "enough is enough". We've pleaded with people to get the vaccine. They aren't we're not stopping the 89% of people who have it going about a normal life.If that's refusing treatment in hospital beds, limiting entry to places then it has to be considered at some point.I personally feel we should be bringing in the passport/negative test into all venues now rather than just large venues.

Gabrielle OMahony ● 1516d

100% right Michael.

Lucille Grant ● 1516d

Sorry, I'm not quite sure of the background to this post. Are unvaccinated pregnant women being given priority over vaccinated ones? (Must have missed something!) Also, does one need to distinguish between hard, irrational antivaxers who also spread disinformation and those who are hesitant to be vaccinated because they've read this disinformation or been otherwise misinformed?I don't like feeding the trolls but I'm unhappy that if their disinformation or misinformation goes unchallenged then someone may believe it and misinform others or suffer harm from the virus. 

Michael Ixer ● 1516d

The responses here are very sad. If the inborn child is not our responsibility then presumably that would be your stance on all unborn children. Even those whose mothers had not made a poor decision.I am not an anti vaxer far from it triple jabbed.

Andy Pike ● 1517d

Category error, Andy. The responsibility is the mother's, not society's, although I can see why your sentiments lead you in the direction you take. I suggest it would be the mother who punished her unborn child.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1517d

Agree with Barbara. The unborn child is not our/NHS's responsiblity any more than the unborn child of a mother who consumes 100 units of booze a week and 40 fags a day is. Fact is the unborn child is in the sole care of its host from conception to birth. Post birth then agree it's "our" responsibility.Andy, we all pay or have paid for the NHS but we can't have one size fits all.

Simon Knight ● 1517d

I share your anger , Barbara. I also agree with Simon who asked that people should stop feeding the anti vexer troll on this forum. It’s pointless arguing with him/them because they can’t engage in discussion. They just want to shout out their own perverted views which are both mindless and dangerous.

Jane Carter ● 1517d

But if you want the mother to be refused treatment then it does affect the unborn child and it is all of our responsibility to protect the child.You cannot refuse to treat someone for an error of judgement , no matter how we may feel personally about it.I have no truck with the mother but you cant punish the unborn child.

Andy Pike ● 1517d

The unborn child is not my responsibility  If the mother has already made her decision I have no rights at all to counteract that

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1517d

And the unborn child ? Would you punish them too because of the mothers choice.

And