Forum Topic

BT

Has anybody else in Putney had their phone line changed on their Land line. We had paperwork sent to us also texts. We had to take the phone plug socket out of the wall and take off a sticker on the back of the HUB and put it in the back. We got cut of on Friday, until we did this. Also we were sent 2 new phones for other rooms free of charge, which had electric plugs you could just put into electric socket to charge the phone.

Barbara Stevens ● 1542d45 Comments

I get quite a few sales calls but equally I get calls from various parts of the NHS that come from very odd numbers and even withheld. I have been tempted to block these only to find out they are valid calls.

Ed Robinson ● 1174d

I don't know if it's true but I heard somewhere that was because BT couldn't install the big green cabinets they need for FTTC in the conservation area.

Michael Ixer ● 1174d

Yes there are homes in Putney that can't get fibre AT ALL!No fibre to the cabinet, nothing. just copper broadband.

Mark Phillips ● 1174d

Michael, this post is over a year old. where Philippa got it from I don't know.

Barbara Stevens ● 1175d

This instruction from Ofcom that telcos should block spoof call with false numbers in the CLI data is interesting, although I note it does say where technically feasible so one wonders how effective it will be: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/11/ofcom-tells-uk-phone-providers-to-identify-and-block-spoofed-calls.html I know the FCC in the US has been attempting the same, their original implementation date was in 2019, I believe it's now slipped to some time in 2023 ... (The US is using standards that are called SHAKEN and STIR - STIR: Secure Telephony Identity Revisited; SHAKEN: Signature-based Handling of Asserted information using toKENs)

Michael Ixer ● 1175d

Bump Changing phone problems.  Everything seems to be contracted out nowadsys and it is not very joined up.  I think there may be more problems to come.

Philippa Bond ● 1176d

I have a solar light from a company called Solar Aid bought on a  special deal of buy two - one for Malawi and one for me - and so good that I sent and bought some more.  It sits on a windowsill so I know exactly where it is if the lights go out.  So often I used to find that the torch batteries were flat on the odd occasions when it was needed... In the countryside we never had street lamps and could find our way home in the dark, we didn't have TV and computers and sometimes were without a landline.  We talked to each other a lot more!  We also didn't have elderly parents with failing sight and hearing who insisted on living in their own homes miles away from us without any way of contacting us - which became more of a worry when there was just the one. I'd like to feel confident that things won't be being made even more complicated for our generation!

Philippa Bond ● 1511d

Andy. Interesting, I was having a chat with friends in a pub about how we didn't have central heating, phones (I mean, not not even a landline phone), etc when we were growing up. But times change: for example, the government now seems to expect one to have a smartphone to put the NHS Apps on or have internet access to order LFTs, book vaccination appointments, fill in tax returns, etc. So perhaps it's reasonable to expect the government to ensure there's adequate infrastructure to support that, whether that be by their own investment or regulating private suppliers to ensure that? Must find out where I put those wind up radios and torches for emergencies :-)

Michael Ixer ● 1511d

In the snow of 1978 stranded in a farmhouse for 4 weeks because the a697 was snowed in. No phone  no internet but a well prepared farmers wife ( mother in law) we survived perfectly well and actually enjoyed the adventure.real snowflakes in those days.God forbid these days if folk couldnt get on facebook or a forum to moan about something.

Andy Pike ● 1511d

Ed, exactly. The conversion from PSTN to VoIP is a prerequisite of swapping the 100+ year old copper wire pairs to fibre to the premises (FTTP) to facilitate gigabit internet capacity. BT may be expediting the "digital voice" for cost and operational reasons but it was going to happen sometime during the next decade. As I've noted before it doesn't seem to have been communicated and explained very well. I think it just highlights how dependent we're becoming on electronic and electrical devices and there's a need to think about electricity sources. For example, our friends in Florida have a backup generator to cater four the hurricane seasons. Not very green but hopefully not used very often! Similarly, many offices in London have backup generators and UPS systems to, as a minimum, allow a controlled shutdown of IT equipment.

Michael Ixer ● 1512d

Our original phone is now plugged into the back of the HUB, the 2 spare phones have an ordinary electric plug which you charge like a mobile phone, when you turn off the electric, when they need to charge they continually bleep, which is really annoying and you don't know where the noise is coming from. Also when the phone rings you have your original ring tone and a different ringing from the other 2 it's like being in a mad house.

Barbara Stevens ● 1512d

I'm sure you could still phone using the old landline phone when the electricity went out because that is how you reported it but if the cordless phones run out of juice then that's it.Yes, it would be good if it was made easier for there to be community energy.  I think this has happened to an extent with the Solar for Schools programme.  It happens more in other countries.  We regularly visit two parts of the country where there is little or no mobile reception.  If we do that (and we don't travel much) then I would presume that there is a lot of the UK with poor mobile reception.

Philippa Bond ● 1512d

Philippa the old system required power too. Now what backup would have been in place at a local level in these remote locations and these unusual circumstances an engineer would need to comment, but low voltage doesn't travel very far. I'm not convinced of the merit to keep the old copper network from an economic and green perspective.I suspect these communities would be better served socially and economically by fast internet speed rather than copper.Perhaps the story should concern itself more with why we do not have more locally generated electricity and the lack of investment in the national grid and national electricity generation? I suspect the risks are more likely to be demand supply related than by storms.

Ed Robinson ● 1512d

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-59564480I know that my cordless phone won't work in a power cut and did keep a plug in phone in case - but what if you live in an out of the way area with no mobile coverage either?

Philippa Bond ● 1512d

Mark. Is that FTTC that BT aren't offering to all in Putney? (I'm assuming it is as I don't know anyone in Putney that has FTTP from BT.) Let's hope they're going to rectify that. Not sure I'd want to be running VoIP over ADSL alongside other wec bservices :-(

Michael Ixer ● 1515d

This is the same BT who still don't offer fibre broadband to many people in Putney. There are several cold spots that are still relying on copper wire broadband, including some just off the URR!

Mark Phillips ● 1515d

Quite alarming to read the extent of the potential dangers involved. Even moreso when can be weaponised by countries against enemies.

Freddie Francis ● 1517d

Interesting that as BT ploughs ahead with it's conversion of the old switched phone network to new voice services over the internet stories are emerging of criminals attacking these new services ...https://www.npr.org/2021/12/06/1060838850/criminal-hackers-are-now-going-after-phone-lines-too

Michael Ixer ● 1517d

Thanks MichaelPhilippa, what you say about mobiles is absolutely correct . I have a very nice one from Tesco, £7.50 a month, which seems reasonable.  I got it from the Tesco shop on Cromwell Rd. I just have to remember to keep it charged.And like your friend, I have more interesting things to do than gawp at the phone. I try to set time aside to explore its many possibilities!

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1534d

A page I came across recently on an independent site giving a good summary of BT's Digital Voice offering. (This is not a recommendation for BT, just for info; other ISPs and VoIP providers are available!)https://kenstechtips.com/index.php/bt-digital-voice

Michael Ixer ● 1535d

if you don't have a charged mobile phone as you won't be able to call 999.We (a whole group of us) have only just managed to get another friend onto a mobile phone ie through all the stages of this.  She resisted for so long with other more important things majoring in her life - parental care, eye operations etc.  She also started with what has turned out to be a big disadvantage in this field - she was unused to so much technology as she had a secretary who dealt with all those sorts of things in the office.  It just goes to show how important it is to try to keep up with technology to an extent.  I say try to keep up because there is so much that there must be many things that most of us won't use and therefore don't need to immediately learn.  It does get harder as you get older.  We completely failed getting our parents onto using mobile phones - despite setting them up. Many people take their mobiles into hospital and into care homes and use them to communicate with the outside world as it is otherwise quite difficult to do so.  It is easier to deal with the doctor if you are online and have a mobile phone.  Hospitals too. Smartphones have made such a difference with being able to expand the text so that you can read it and send and receive little very easy to take and send photos and videos.  Facetime and pictures made such a difference keeping in touch with growing family and friends during lockdown!You may find that you can't take part in council consultations if you are not online.We still have some friends who haven't got mobiles who have been ill and are causing a bit of worry...

Philippa Bond ● 1538d

Thank you Barbara. I have a phone in every room in my small house. Probably the best is a very basic one I got in Boots back in the days when the sold all sorts of things. It works even during a power cut which the others, with answering machines etc don't because they have to also be plugged into an electric socket.A point made in the Observer article was that if there's a power cut and broadband goes, so will the phones, so BT says you have to have something else which will work in an emergency. The article's author suggests shouting!!Anyway, when it comes to my turn, I'll do my best!

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1539d

Elizabeth. It will eventually (that is, by 2025) affect everyone with a landline connected via an Openreach two wire circuit. As far as I know it should not require changes where people have a phone connected over the cable used to deliver Virgin cable TV services.

Michael Ixer ● 1539d

Sorry just read back, rather a lot of spelling mistakes, I don't get my head together till about 11 o/c.

Barbara Stevens ● 1539d

Elizabeth, it was easy, they gave you plenty of notification before hand. I don't know how many Land lines you have, but the take the small part that pushed into the wall and peel off the little sticker on the back of your HUB then push it into the HUB instead.  If you want another phone they will send you 2 I received for nothing, with an electric plug with you can put in bedroom etc. Somehow it will ring as well when you home phone rings. The spare phone you charge it's sitting in a base like your other phone.

Barbara Stevens ● 1539d

Interesting piece on this in Sunday's Observer.Thanks for alerting us to this, Barbara. I'm with BT so am awaiting this change with dread. And I'm one of those rooted in the past who does use the landline for phone calls!And I wonder, given that BT owns and operates Openreach, will it affect everyone, no matter which is their provider?

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1539d

Philippa. Yes, the rate of change is a problem for many, as is the so called "digital divide". I have some friends who refuse to use a smartphone or even carry a mobile phone on principle. I'm not sure if it really enhances their lives! It's interesting that in a lifetime I've seen music go from 78rpm shellac discs to vinyl 45 singles & 33 LPs, then to CDs and finally to MPEG downloads whole photos and movies have had their own digital paths. I guess telephony is just following its own progression, incorporating and then being subsumed by the internet along the way while at the same time a completely new mobile network infrastructure has been created (and a smaller cable network was created in the UK, now in the Virgin brand).To be honest these days I use a smartphone or tablet for most online activities - and the last thing I use my phone for is making voice calls! I only usually revert to booting up my laptop when I need a big screen or the better facilities of a larger keyboard and additional features of Windows apps for Zoom conferences, MS Office or manipulating thing in websites such as Flickr, Dropbox, etc.I'm not sure what the answer is - perhaps getting technology companies to assist with some sort of lifetime learning to keep people up-to-date? I suppose many keep in touch by using technology at work but that obviously stops when they retire unless they make an effort or have an interest in keeping in touch with new developments. It seems to me their are two aspects - firstly, teaching people the facilities and how to use them and, secondly, explaining the underlying implications and rationale for the changes?It's also not something just affecting elderly people, the digital divide was emphasised during the pandemic when children from poorer families had difficulties accessing online learning because of their families lack of facilities.As I noted before, with regard to alarm facilities, it's best to contract providers directly to find out the provisions they're making. A useful topic for discussion.

Michael Ixer ● 1539d

Our friend doesn't have a mobile phone let alone a smartphone which is why we were thinking about this.  Hopefully the providers have got it all sorted as to what they will do?  We as individuals used Age UK.  Some Councils I think have much larger telecare systems.  I remember people being stuck in hospitals unable to be discharged because their telephone alarm had not been installed.I agree to an extent about David Mitchell's take but it is in comedic character and represents an awful lot of people who can't cope/find any change irritating. I completely agree about having to have an electricity socket for each phone.  It means reorganising our lives around what we do how and where. Any 'little' jobs like this tend to be a nightmare to organise especially when it is for somebody else.

Philippa Bond ● 1539d

Going back to my original post, I still think the main issue is the lack of information that seems to be publicised about this. Interestingly I see, looking through articles I've saved about this, OpenReach supposedly launched an awareness campaign regarding this last April. I must admit I've not seen anything yet! https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/04/openreach-campaign-to-raise-awareness-of-analogue-uk-phone-retirement.html However, the OpenReach website does have information: https://www.openreach.com/upgrading-the-UK-to-digital-phone-lines (I find the phrasing a little confusing as apart from the analogue copper lines between homes and exchanges the telephone network is digital - it started with BT installing "System X" exchanges in 1980 - it just doesn't generally use internet protocols at the moment.)

Michael Ixer ● 1540d

I did feel that article was looking to nitpick for the sake of having something to write about, although the power failure issue is a serious one if customers don't have battery backups or a mobile phone to be able to make emergency calls. Barbara's transition sounds like it went fairly smoothly?Digital Voice appears to be a specific product for BT Hub customers. Will those customers get a cut in line rentals and call charges now they have VoIP; how will BT manage the transition of customers who have a BT phone service but a different ISP, or who contract for both services with another provider?

Michael Ixer ● 1540d

Thanks.  We are not currently using it but have a friend living on his own for whom we thought it might be a good idea. Not so sure now.Interestingly we came across David Mitchell's opinion on this change here:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/14/its-good-to-talk-unless-youre-a-bt-customer

Philippa Bond ● 1540d

That's a good point Philippa. I know that was raised a whole ago BT have published this advisory for alarm service providers (rather than consumers):https://www.redcare.bt.com/news-and-events/news/the-pstn-switch-off-how-it-impacts-alarm-signalling.html.And I found this advice from Lifeline24:https://www.lifeline24.co.uk/digital-telephone-switchover/I'd say if you're using any sort of alarm device then it's a good idea to the provider now to find out their plans for catering with the switchover. It does sound that BT aren't providing much notice of the changes so I don't know how this would be coordinated. Perhaps ask BT

Michael Ixer ● 1541d

Ring 151.

Barbara Stevens ● 1541d

Has it been confirmed that these systems with pendants or bracelets that the elderly have in case they fall or need help will work with the new system? FIL had one of these and had didn't have cordless phones because it would have been too easy to lose them.  We had one landline but with three corded phones so that they were spaced out - one in the hall, one in the bedroom and one in the sitting room.  They needed to be placed carefully (stuck down with Bluetack) because this was for someone with declining sight.

Philippa Bond ● 1541d

Oops, 20th - or 19th!

Michael Ixer ● 1541d

29th century? I must have nodded off!The cooper network should have been long gone. There must be an environmental cost in supplying the copper network with power etc in addition to the economic cost to the country and of course consumer.Many people have dect phones that will not work anyway without power. Communication should have been better but if there is a power cut throughout London making calls may be useful provided that someone can answer at the other end.

Ed Robinson ● 1541d

I must admit I'm surprised BT haven't publicised this more and explained what they're doing. I guess BT see it as an improvement strategy because fibre delivering internet services to the premises should give us all more capacity and lower latency eventually, and one would hope the nice new fibre infrastructure would be a lot more reliable. I can see why BT don't want the expense of maintaining an old and unreliable copper network in parallel to the new fibre one - let's face it some of the wiring was probably installed early in the 29th century - and they're only going to pass that onto consumers anyway. However, as the phones are no longer powered from the exchange in all the articles I've seen on this it does recommend rechargeable battery backups are installed to allow emergency calls during power cuts (particularly if customers don't have a mobile phone).I guess like all new technologies there are pros and cons?

Michael Ixer ● 1541d

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/14/its-good-to-talk-unless-youre-a-bt-customer

Maxine Campbell ● 1542d

We pay more perhaps, because I get calls free on the Landline, as long as I don't go over an hour.

Barbara Stevens ● 1542d

We are BT and Broadband and HUB. Don't know if it's smart or not.

Barbara Stevens ● 1542d

It's interesting. I'm assuming you're a BT Broadband customer with a BT Home/ Smart Hub, are you Barbara? It indicates to me that BT are swapping their own customers from PSTN to VoIP first as that's easier - no new VoIP contracts to be arranged with 3rd party providers, etc. I believe the BT conversion of copper to fibre is targeted for 2030 (although that will probably slip if it hasn't already) but the PSTN to VoIP conversion is targeted for completion 2024. That's because now most people make phone calls on mobiles and many businesses already use VoIP so maintaining and supporting the old PSTN infrastructure is no longer economic for BT.

Michael Ixer ● 1542d

Thank you all, just wondered, as Friday all of a sudden land line didn't work. then got a text on my mobile telling me your now ready swap over, all seems OK. Thank you.

Barbara Stevens ● 1542d

There is no choice. It's part of BTs plan to swap all connections from 2 wire copper connections to fibre optical cable. The fibre cannot carry electrical signals used by the current phone service so the new one has to be provided over the internet connection on the fibre. As a prerequisite to that the old phone service on copper is being migrated to Voice over IP ahead of migration of connections from copper to fibre.

Michael Ixer ● 1542d

Yes we had to do this.  There doesn’t seem to be a choice.

Martine Guy ● 1542d

I think this is probably all part of the plan to shut down the old copper network Barbara and have all calls sent over the internet instead.

Matt Palmer ● 1542d