Forum Topic

ULEZ Expansion warning signs

Have you seen the new signs off URR (A205) giving notice of the ULEZ expansion effective from 25 Oct? Apart from the fact that, as a diesel driver, I'll be heavily penalised just for driving to the High Street of my own borough, there are traps aplenty for local drivers accustomed to taking their usual routes. An example is a small Sainsburys on a corner of URR with outside parking in Dyers Lane. For the unsuspecting driver turning left from the Sheen direction, by the time they see the ULEZ sign they'll be committed to turning and will suddenly find themselves in the zone ... on a road that does nothing but provide access to a handful of local houses. There's also speculation that Waitrose's carpark in Sheen will fall within the zone ... as will Kew Retail Park. BE AWARE if your car isn't ULEZ compliant!

Roy Robart ● 1604d39 Comments

By my reckoning, yes on both counts - certainly Manor Road. Clifford Ave forms part of the Sth/Nth Circular Rds, so you're OK provided you then don't turn right into the remainder of Clifford Ave towards Chiswick. Fine to continue towards Kew ... but, while the cemetary to the left is outside the zone, the crematorium to the right isn't ... and don't turn right further up into either Kew Retail Park or the National Archives. The whole ULEZ proposal is a minefield!

Roy Robart ● 1585d

Thank you Roy.  That is excellent news!  A bit of common sense prevailed though it is surprising that it the car park has been defined as a private road.....Some questions though.  Many vehicles on Upper Richmond Road West turn right onto Clifford Avenue (A205) to go to the A316. This should continue to be the boundary for the ULEZ zone?Also, from this right turn to Richmond, it is the A305.  I assume this is outside the ULEZ zone?  It would mean you can drive along URRW to Manor Road and turn right with no problem?Thank you!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1591d

Waitrose have now clarified, although it goes against TfL's own guidance on this page (under Richmond), so quote the case number if you ever get caught out!: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-expansion-boundary.Here's Waitrose's abridged response:I can confirm the the car park in East Sheen  is a private road so would have no enforcement cameras on it. I hope this has resolved your query, please let me know if it hasn't.Kind regards Kristina Brookes Waitrose & Partners Customer CareCase Reference: 11617146

Roy Robart ● 1591d

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/car-and-motorcycle-scrappage-schemeThere's lots of info but you can apparently also contact them.

Philippa Bond ● 1601d

Ed, how did they know the traffic lights had been changed. This has been going on for a while now. Last weekend was Sat and Sun. That seemed to be with Putney Bridge, don't really see how the traffic lights had anything to do with it because traffic was at a stand still.

Barbara Stevens ● 1601d

Barbara, some traffic police wouldn't go amiss. A bit extra on the council tax may be worth it if we knew where the money goes.

Ed Robinson ● 1601d

Re:Traffic in High street, do not know if any other residents received this in their letter box today, or just Chelverton Road,residents. Several residents on Chelverton Rd, raised the issue of the recent heavy traffic on the road with us. This is likely to have been caused by Transport for London's new phasing for the traffic lights on the High St, combining with the increased use of cars due to the pandemic and the Hammersmith & Fulham Council's Hammersmith Bridge being closed.  Because the lights are controlled by TFL we raised the issue with them and asked for the phasing to be changed back.We have also asked Wandsworth Council transport team to conduct a traffic numbers study. Also letting us know how lucky we are having the lowest Council tax. You should be so grateful so put up with the traffic. Ethan, James and Cllr John Locker. I bet they don't live in Putney and couldn't care less.

Barbara Stevens ● 1601d

"Yes the ULEZ zone will work, but it's a crude instrument."I have to agree. There will be a reduction that is almost certain but how large it is difficult to tell.As far as Putney is concerned we will probably see some traffic switch from Lower Richmond Road to URR.The arbitrary standards the ULEZ uses isn't enough, but it is unlikely to change for the Mayor's term.Post ULEZ The focus will have to then switch to improving traffic flow such as road works management and traffic lights - while trying to get us all onto bicycles of course.Has anyone seen a plan for the next 3-4 years??

Ed Robinson ● 1601d

Haven't got a clue!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1601d

The oil supply for the bearings in an EV?

Michael Ixer ● 1601d

Ha ha ha ha!!!  1 litre, sorry!!!!  But 900cc

Ivonne Holliday ● 1601d

Can they not be sold out of London (although many cities now have Low Emission Zones) to extend their life a little?There is a scrappage scheme for those on benefits of one kind or another.

Philippa Bond ● 1601d

"I changed it for a smaller 1cc car."That must be one tiny vehicle! Do you fill it using a syringe and dropper? :-)

Mark Phillips ● 1601d

"Many people have cars which are already ULEZ compatible even if they are quite old or are diesel."Old, yes, where Petrol cars are concerned, but for diesel not so much. Pretty much ANY diesel car registered before 2015 falls foul of ULEZ. I pity the people who followed Government advice at the time to buy "cleaner" diesel and have now been screwed by that advice. The market for older diesel cars has collapsed in London and people are now stuck with having to get rid and take a loss. The Mayor should have put a decent scrappage scheme in place to help people. I know people with a perfectly sound low mileage 2012 diesel car that they have to sell. Yes the ULEZ zone will work, but it's a crude instrument.

Mark Phillips ● 1601d

https://lruc.content.tfl.gov.uk/map-of-hounslow-richmond-and-wandsworh-in-the-ulez-expansion-area.pdfIt seems to work despite the spelling!

Philippa Bond ● 1602d

No Ivonne, there remains damage to the ozone layer, though it is much improved following restrictions on chloro/flouro carbons in refrigerants and the like. The actual hole in it enlarges seasonally and in recent years there have been times when it appears to have "closed" - but one is looking at a diffuse mixture of gases and describing the situation in binary open/closed terms is not really that helpful in precise scientific terms

Michael Winstanley ● 1603d

Hello again,I still have not read the article in full, but promise to do so tomorrow after 11am as I have a webinar before then.But I noticed the article was dated 2007 and it mentioned the ozone layer.  If I am not mistaken, the ozone layer was "fixed" in the southern hemisphere, near South America.  I believe that ozone layer "cured itself" a few years ago.  If the ozone layer was a wake up call for things to come, I do not know. But will read the article tomorrow!  Too busy at the moment at home, apologies!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

I know!!!  But then you should not be able to  cross Chiswick Bridge, I believe.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

Inside the North Circular and South Circular going around Kew bridge.

Barbara Stevens ● 1603d

Thank you Michael.  We are just about to have supper so I shall read it later on.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

I am not arguing the ULEZ extension!!!!!Also, I am not convinced that Chiswick is in the ULEZ extension????

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

Ignoring the fact that manufacturers have been fiddling the figures for years - the Euro standards are not real world tests - so they are not a good indicator of true emissions.It is worth having a look at https://www.trueinitiative.org that tries to give more realistic measurements.TFL call it the clean car checker. Now there are cars that are low emission that do not meet the selected TFL Euro standards and ones that are high that do!Conclusion is that the Euro Standards or TFL appliance does not mean low emissions. I've seen some doddy twitter posts with "ULEZ is coming to Putney It's time to say goodbye to toxic exhaust emissions" which are completely misleading IMO.ULEZ will take some vehicles off the road - irrespective if they are the worse ones there will be a drop in emissions because of that not an elimination.https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/cleaning-londons-vehicles/cleaner-vehicle-checker

Ed Robinson ● 1603d

Well the ULEZ expansion was in SK's manifesto and he won the election. So there's your democracy :)

Matt Palmer ● 1603d

Mr Google says: NOX is a term used to describe a mixture of nitric oxide (NO) and nitrogen dioxide (NO2). PM is an abbreviation of the term Particulate Matter. Both used in the measure of pollution, along with CO2 (carbon dioxide), etc:https://www.airqualitynow.eu/pollution_home.php

Michael Ixer ● 1603d

My goodness Philippa, do you not know when to stop? And what do you say about the survey that Hounslow Council did with the residents of the area they are now prohibiting cars?  Does the result of 87% against the scheme asking for it to be removed?  As one of the Hounslow Councillors said:  "This is not a democracy" is fine by you?  Perhaps down your street!But the rest does not deserve a response.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

Letting you stew in your own juice would be unfair on those who might be caught out by the road changes and welcome a heads up.  So, whatever they are called - Living Neighourhoods or Low Traffic Neighbourhoods or School Streets or any other PR speak -  if people only follow their satnavs and phone maps and don't look out for signs they are likely to get caught by them all over the UK.  You should complain to the map companies concerned.  It also helps if you know what the signs you do see mean.  We had a discussion about the Evil Knievel sign on here ages ago because I remember saying that I thought the No Entry sign was more common and so more easily understood. I have seen one with Except Cycles underneath on a narrowed one-way road for motor vehicles but how do you deal with one that has to also say all the other vehicles and reasons for those who are allowed?  Signs are regulated and certain ones have also been in short supply for use at the sudden notice following Govt requests to make changes.The original London ULEZ was announced by Boris Johnson when he was still Mayor of London. He gets a bouquet for that considering the lengths UK Govts have gone to avoid doing anything about air pollution even though he left before it became into being.  This ULEZ expansion is a delayed extension of that.I hope you have complained to Hounslow Council or TfL if there was foliage obscuring the road signs.All of us should be grateful for cleaner air and a reduction in greenhouse gases, we certainly are.  It's children who don't drive who are the ones likely to suffer the most.  

Philippa Bond ● 1603d

Perhaps this article will help?https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-6-diesel/When I bought my 2014 car, I was told it was Euro 4 compliant but not Euro 6 compliant.  For me that was Chinese at the time.  Some weeks after buying it, I went to the dealer for an unrelated matter; they nervously checked the car and said it was not among the cars in the diesel scandal......

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

It is interesting to note that all these standards are EU standards.....And no, I do not know what Euro 6 (NOx and PM) stand for.  I know my previous car was not Euro 6 compliant so I changed it for a smaller 1cc car.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

I am sorry Philippa, but I disagree with you.  There is no need for you to remind anybody, less so, on this forum.Whatever your hopes are for the bigger companies, that does not solve the problem for the smaller, independent shops including charity shops. We are all aware of the E10, but it is not suitable for many petrol cars.  Are you trying to say if a car has E10 petrol it would be allowed in the ULEZ zone?  Hmmmmm.And, no. Hartington Road is not an LTN.  To start with, it does not have the barriers normally associated with an LTN because residents are allowed to enter it.  More importantly, you cannot use Hartington Road from the A316 to the M4, but yes from the M4 to the A316.  So, it certainly is NOT an LTN.  Also, it has not had the wide coverage ULEZ has had.The cameras there operate well before the junction with Chiswick Quay and within the 320 yards you are allowed to use.  It is, in no uncertain terms, an entrapment of the worst kind.  In addition, the signage at the junction is totally inappropriate and hidden; you cannot see it correctly due to the foliage, there is a very small sign on the other side of the road which you would not normally see.  If there was a no-entry sign with the exceptions shown underneath, I would agree.  No, the arrangements by Hounslow Council on Hartington Road are definitely devious.The speeding along 20 m/h roads is not because certain drivers think it is a minimum, they speed along the roads because there is no enforcement!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1603d

I very much support the expansion of the low emission zone - we should be taking dramatic against the onset of climate change. Johnson and cronies  are asleep at their wheel! Now there’s a surprise.Looking at the regulations I see they are defined as:- Euro 3 (NOx) for motorcycles, mopeds, motorised tricycles and quadricycles- Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans and other specialist vehicles (up to and including 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight) and minibuses (up to and including 5 tonnes)- Euro 6 (NOx and PM) for diesel cars, vans and other specialist vehicles (up to and including 3.5 tonnes) and minibuses (up to and including 5 tonnes)There are also similar regulations for larger HTV vehicles. I must admit I don’t know exactly what “Euro 6 (NOx and PM)” actually means. Perhaps someone could explain …Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1603d

Inevitably the ULEZ and Congestion Zone costs incurred by plumbers, electricians, builders etc etc will be covertly passed on to their customers.  All businesses will obviously increase their prices to cover these charges, which means the customers will be paying more. The motorists who cannot afford to buy a new vehicle every 3 years (who can!?) will be Khan's go-to cash cows, as usual.🤬Thanks Khan. Lots more money coming into your coffers to waste on hiring even more aides earning in excess of £100k!🙄Emergency vehicles are either be 'young' enough to be exempt, or the older vehicles might be exempted until they get upgraded? Who knows?

Sue Hammond ● 1603d

Philippa, do you not realize you continually patronize forum members on the Putney site. It' all about Philippa, what she thinks. Why don't you do a Documentary. Only what Philippa thinks everyone should do, because we are all wrong in your eyes.

Barbara Stevens ● 1603d

Sorry Ivonne but I think it is necessary to check that everyone knows as I've only just got a friend who actually lives within the ULEZ area to check that his car is OK to use without being fined. I don't believe that there is a concession for living in the zone as there is with the Congestion Charge (although your number plate is read with ANPR the same way) as the idea is to get the worst polluting cars off the road.I've still got to check another number plate for the ULEZ for someone who always had a secretary and who is now trying to learn how to use a smartphone and tablet so has not got round to doing it herself.I think (hope) the bigger companies will all be aware of the ULEZ and a lot of them are putting solar panels on the roofs of warehouses and stores and using electric vans and cars already. There is also the new petrol that is appearing at the pumps which is supposed to be less damaging to the environment and which I hear was introduced in France ages ago - so we are behind on that as well.I think Hartington Road is in a Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) and that is designed to reduce the number of motor vehicles taking shortcuts through a residential area. There can't be total barriers because some traffic is allowed. Those are all over the place so you can't just depend on a satnav and must look out for signs.  Satnavs have made a lot of difference to the amount of traffic in various areas by re-routing traffic off main routes and through residential ones.I wish there was more done about the fast speed that some cars are travelling through residential streets despite the 20mph.  I think some people think that is a minimum and not a maximum!

Philippa Bond ● 1603d

And, of course, let us not forget the delivery lorries to the various businesses that are within the ULEZ zone.  From small independent shops to the big ones like Boots, Sainsbury's, Tesco, McDonald (I certainly do not use them),Headmasters, Bill's, cannot remember the name of the shop that you need to take your own containers....... Interesting times ahead!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1604d

Oh, I forgot to mention.  What will happen to emergency vehicles?If the same ULEZ restrictions apply to them, who will pay for the fines they will incur?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1604d

Hello Philippa,Thank you for the unnecessary lecture but I am afraid you have missed the points raised in the previous comments.Not allowing parking by the Waitrose in Sheen is beyond ridiculous.Yes, there are clear signs going up at the moment along A2025, very clear indeed.  That was not obvious or clear in the case of Hartington Road in Chiswick.But the question must be if people need work done in their homes, particularly in cases of emergency.  I am not too sure, neither have I looked into it for Wandsworth, if you can register a trades vehicle to carry out the necessary work.  In the case of Hartington Road, they cannot go into the area, so good luck to the people who need work in their houses.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1604d

There have been warnings about the intention to widen the Ultra Low Emissions Zone for years.  I'm pretty sure it has also been delayed once. Many people have cars which are already ULEZ compatible even if they are quite old or are diesel.What you need to do is to check your vehicle registration (and make sure everyone you know also does) against the number plate checker on the TfL website.https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-where-and-when

Philippa Bond ● 1604d

I have not seen the signs you mention but yes those on URR West.  You certainly cannot miss them as they have red background and clear wording.  Fortunately, it is only one sign, albeit in various roads and all the same design.  Not a myriad of signs that cover each other!!!It would be preposterous (illegal?) if parking by Waitrose Sheen is forbidden.  I am sure Waitrose will do something about this!!  I suppose it could be  considered as an entry to Model Cottages behind.  The road, or lane, is closed at the moment, and adding a sign there would be more appropriate.  I feel sorry for the residents who will need tradesmen at their homes and many will not go!  If it is emergency work, then the Council and/or the GLA should provide the workmanship?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1604d

... and Putney Leisure Centre will fall within the zone. More examples welcome.

Roy Robart ● 1604d