Forum Topic

Cressida's Future

I see that the government wants to extend Cressida Dick's tenure at Scotland Yard for a further two years. Apparently official thinking is that she should stay because there is no prospect of anyone better being given the job. Bearing in mind her  record of dubious actions (highlighted by large numbers of people who think she should be sacked) is the government's intention good policy?

Alexander MacLeod ● 1375d38 Comments

Which stats are those?

Michael Winstanley ● 1372d

One has to be a bit careful with statistics. I've seen cyber security statistics for organisations that are getting worse even though they've made great strides in their technology and awareness solutions. It's been down to the fact that threats are increasing because of a conducive external environment, their collection of stats has got better so more negative events are being reported, there's been a change elsewhere in the company that's created an issue, etc. So one might need a knowledge of what's being policed, how the stats have been compiled over time, other social factors affecting an area being measured, etc? Don't knoiw for sure, "just sayin'".

Michael Ixer ● 1372d

I suspect selling police stations is the sort of decision that's made by a person who doesn't really understand the intricacies and culture of policing? They probably predicted efficiency and cost savings from some sort of consolidation? Of course some closures might have made sense - apparently updating Bow Street Court and Police Station for modern needs wouldn't have been economic because of its listed status so selling it to a property developer probably made sense if appropriate alternatives could be made too house the court and police services.  Centralisation probably makes sense for the fight against cyber crime but not for resolving local violence between street gangs?I wouldn't claim to have sufficient knowledge to say whether Dicks is the best candidate. I guess from her time in the force she should understand the culture and structure of the organization, and, if she's learnt from her mistakes, be in avoid position to lead and change? It does seem disappointing that the force is in the position where there's been insufficient succession planning and that a suitable candidate to lead the Met forward hasn't been identified.Probably a result of insufficient planning and funding by the government over the past decade, and why police IT also seems to be approaching a crisis ...https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252506473/Delays-to-replacing-legacy-police-IT-puts-access-to-information-at-risk-says-NAO?utm_campaign=20210912_Delays+to+replacing+legacy+police+IT+puts+access+to+information+at+risk%2C+says+NAO&utm_medium=EM&utm_source=EDA&asrc=EM_EDA_179807240

Michael Ixer ● 1372d

Michael X, removing local police stations  was a grave error. Some local authorities like Bath have started to reverse this practice.By removing the local police stations they automatically reduced the time spent in a given area. I recall Bath's police lost a considerable amount of time because their shift started at the new station that was quite far from the centre. No doubt it's the same for the Met and why shouldn't it be? Were the police expected to work the extra time for free??I'm personally not sure it was an accountancy decision just a normal political short sighted save a couple of Bob pay more later type of decision that we see too often!

Ed Robinson ● 1372d

I thought some of the reasons for having police patrolling on foot was to become familiar with the neighborhood, build trust and relationships with local people, and gather information useful in crime prevention and resolution? I'm not sure how that feeds into the police coating algorithms; accountants seem to have a problem valuing culture, relations and information ...

Michael Ixer ● 1372d

Michael I'm afraid the stats do not justify the resource for state and politicians.

Ed Robinson ● 1372d

Ed, I am all for greater transparency. But the kind of information required to make this particular judgement is quite hard to forcibly put into the public domain.I would like to see Cressida Dick's periodic appraisals and the targets she has been set in them. I'd like detailed consultations with all of her direct reports, peers and key stakeholders. Then I would feel sufficiently informed to make some judgement as to how well she has been doing in her job

Michael Winstanley ● 1372d

I think that illustrates the point. A prominent politician is an obvious target. Thus they have police protection (both visible and invisible). This is a TARGETTED use of resource whereas having more policemen/women wandering around the neighbourhood just so that the voters can see them is not.

Michael Winstanley ● 1372d

Sorry Michael I forgot to add my usual argument:If visible policing and patrols do not work why are we wasting tax payers money supplying police to members of state and politicians to do just that? Your logic would indicate it is a waste of money.Give the public the same level of service as politicians and vise versa then we will see!

Ed Robinson ● 1372d

Michael I think we will have to disagree on this.But would add a couple of points:If government was more transparent we would not have to rely on wiki or wiki leaks. Mickey mouse perhaps but it does show the link between policing and the security services as a career. With the weighting I put on transparency, I personally would see that as a negative. Wrong perhaps but my view.If the current policing model is so good why is our crime rate higher than similar European cities? Where visible policing very much exists! The obvious answer is crime prevention. That said you do need the right people. Having seen some PCOs in the  past merely marching along URR looking at the ground and others that I could even clearly out run- the right people are going to cost more to recruit and retain.

Ed Robinson ● 1372d

Yes I could see that one could adjust the parameters on that site - I am afraid that try as I might, I could not discern an upward trend. Maybe it is your imagined "excluding Covid" mask that does the trick. Nonetheless, the site shows "reported crime" not police effectiveness.Yes, Dick was A.C. for the investigation into the cock-up. Hence it fell to her to be making the apology. She had nothing to do with either failing to apprehend Napper or with attempting to frame Stagg. You could argue that it was on her watch that the futility of the previous investigations was exposed, but this is rather pointless.When it came to reviewing her re-appointment, I really doubt that anyone in a position of authority relied too much on her Wiki page. Now I use wiki as an information short-cut as much as anyone else - but as a judge of character and competence for a senior appointment? Bit Mickey Mouse for that I'm afraid.To me the problem with local policing is the obsession with "bobbies on the beat". It is a total waste of money and resource. The police need to be directed towards reducing crime, not demonstrating public visibility. Sadly, the latter wins more votes. Most visible crime is drug-related and that needs more intelligent solutions than what we have at the moment. Give it 20 years and we will have followed the USA and Canada in decriminalising the use of soft drugs but for the time being I see no easy out.

Michael Winstanley ● 1372d

Michael, it is a Tableau web site that has slides for the dates and filters for the types of crimes as well as a map to select different areas.You can adjust the dates accordingly - it is quite impressive from an IT perspective.However if you slide the dates (excluding covid) it appears to show an upward trend.Regarding Cressida Dick she was indeed Assistant Commissioner  for the enquiry (not the investigation as you point out), but the enquiry into the investigation.As someone that ranks transparency higher than policy looking at Dick's wiki page it does not inspire confidence.We must push our public representatives to be as transparent as possible, which will enable us to obtain the facts - then we can argue about policy IMO.The problem for London is that the Met has a dual role - now I'm not going to say local is the most important than national security, that would not only be stupid but also wrong. But you can't have two masters. Local policing needs more accountability and definitely more resource. That probably means more money to retain people at the front end. Perhaps if we paid more on policing insurance premiums wouldn't be so high?Anyway I tried to look at the Met and how the recent council increase would be applied locally and failed. It could be me I admit, but I could not see it. Livingston increased police numbers but some were reallocated to national security roles I recall. (I will leave aside War on Terror failure's - no doubt we learn more from US government than our own). But people need to know if local taxes are put up what extra local services they will get IMO.Crime does impact poorer communities more but even more prosperous communities in Barnes and Richmond would like to see more local policing.

Ed Robinson ● 1372d

Well I'm not SURE, by any means. But what you have linked is something about the crime RATE from 2019 to the present. I can't see the upward trend to which you are referring.What we actually want to know about here though is what Dick has achieved since 2017 running the Met, given the resources mad available to her.That is not shown by these statistics, but for what they are worth, they seem to just show something puttering along around the average, with some fall-off during lockdown.https://www.met.police.uk/sd/stats-and-data/met/crime-data-dashboard/It has to be said (though many will be surprised to hear) that current London crime rates are incredibly low by historical or international standards and that statistics reveal far more about the reporting of crime than the commission of it.

Michael Winstanley ● 1372d

"I would have said it has been getting better."Are you sure Michael? Covid seems to have had a huge impact but it looks like an upward trend to me.https://www.met.police.uk/sd/stats-and-data/met/crime-data-dashboard/

Ed Robinson ● 1372d

Yes for sure, we are all allowed to criticise high office holders and I do it all the time. For example, I repeatedly point out that our Prime Minister is a liar. This one is very easy - I argue that one of the requirements of the job is that the people should be able to trust him and they can't. I point to the multiple occasions upon which he has lied and upon which his deviation from the truth is easy to verify. I don't even need to move on to the time he smashed up a restaurant front in Oxford or the time he conspired with a crooked friend of his (Darius Guppy - later imprisoned for fraud) to have a journalist beaten up to silence him.My point about Cressida Dick though is that most of the people criticising her really have a clue even what her job requires, let alone how well she does it. She hasn't a reputation for lying or for corruption. Let us take "efficiency" as an example - how would you measure her "efficiency" as a manager? How does it compare to her predecessors? For sure, we would all like the Met to be better than they are. What though has been the trend under Cressida Dick? Getting better or getting worse? I would have said it has been getting better.

Michael Winstanley ● 1372d

Stagg was cleared in 1994. Dick was then about 34; 11 years into her police career, she had recently attained the rank of Chief Inspector. Although she rose quite quickly through the ranks, her rise was not quite so meteoric. Dick was Assistant Commissioner in about 2010. This was maybe around the time Robert Napper had been  convicted and someone of that rank in the Met was obliged to apologise for the force's errors. She had no  role in the Nickell enquiry.Thank you for providing direct evidence that Dick's critics generally don't know what they are talking about.

Michael Winstanley ● 1372d

Dick was Assistant Police Met Pol Commissioner during murder enquiry of Rachel Nickell on Wimbledon Common, wrongly accusing Colin Stagg, leaving the real rapist and murderer to rape and kill again

Penelope Becker ● 1373d

We will have to see how the new Manchester Police Commissioner gets on. Sadly both London and Manchester have high crime rates. He at least seems to think he can make a difference which is a start!

Ed Robinson ● 1373d

It may be a damn difficult job Michael but she needs to be a far more efficient manager of the policing she is ultimately responsible for. Unlike other countries we are allowed to criticise people in high office.

Lucille Grant ● 1373d

It would be good then if someone would address that. However, at her level in that organisation, it seems to me a further irrelevance - she is way above the level at which she would be expected to solve crimes. This shows, if you would forgive me, a great naivete over how such positions are filled and the skills necessary to discharge such duties. As if the head of the British armed forces would have to be a good shot or the Chief Executive of the NHS accurate with a scalpel. The skills required of her are to lead and motivate a large number of people, to efficiently allocate resources, implement change and  manage relationships with the various stakeholders. It's a damn difficult job, beyond the understanding of the vast majority of her critics.

Michael Winstanley ● 1373d

Lesbian isn't the issue. Don't let the discussion slide into irrelevancies. Is she a good copper? That is the issue.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1373d

Maybe it was never a story to begin with. A public appointmnt with such wide scope will always attract criticism from some quarters. Some people don't like lesbians, it has to be said - for them it is a nasty taste.

Michael Winstanley ● 1373d

Cressida was in Jubilee house Police offices in Putney today. She is starting to look like a frail old lady to me and not up to the job.

Colin Redmond ● 1373d

BJ has reappointed her anyway, news says. End of story? Or more problems?

Alexander MacLeod ● 1374d

Ed, probably because we now have the worst criminals here, all from other countries.

Barbara Stevens ● 1374d

We do have the National Crime Agency, so some major crimes are dealt with at a national level. https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do/how-we-work

Michael Ixer ● 1374d

Perhaps we should have recruited from abroad?If we have the best police force in the world why not the lowest crime rate?

Ed Robinson ● 1374d

I wish we concentrated on policies and not individuals.I wonder if it is time to separate local policing away for the national roles the Met plays.We need a flatter and more transparent police force. Let the Mayor be responsible for local police force and the Home Office the national one.We can then get some transparency and decide where to spend the resource.

Ed Robinson ● 1375d

It all started in 2005 when she headed the operation which led to the fatal shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, though to be fair she was cleared of wrong-doing on that occasion..

Alexander MacLeod ● 1375d

oh really? i just thought they were totally independent.Yeah, add that to her list of crimes then!

Matt Palmer ● 1375d

I think it is Matt.

Sue Hammond ● 1375d

She's MET, so surely that's not under her control?

Matt Palmer ● 1375d

Regarding surrender of the city of London to a bunch of XR hooligans.

Andy Pike ● 1375d

Regarding the handling of the Sarar Everard vigil - police were in the wrong yet againhttps://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/sarah-everard-vigil-police-breach-fundamental-rights-failings-inquiry-b943543.htmlPolice breached “fundamental rights” at a vigil for Sarah Everard and “Kill the Bill” protests, a parliamentary inquiry has found.There were “multiple failings” by the Metropolitan Police and Avon and Somerset Police in the way they handled events at Clapham Common, south-west London and in Bristol in March, according to the All Party Parliamentary Group on Democracy and the Constitution (APPGDC).

Matt Palmer ● 1375d

Personally censured for hampering a corruption enquiry!https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/15/daniel-morgan-met-chief-censured-for-hampering-corruption-inquiry"The Metropolitan police have been described as “institutionally corrupt” and its commissioner, Cressida Dick, personally censured for obstruction by an independent inquiry set up to review the murder of the private detective Daniel Morgan.The findings of an independent panel inquiring into Morgan’s killing in 1987 triggered calls from his brother, Alastair, for Dick to consider her position, and denounced the actions of Britain’s biggest police force."

Matt Palmer ● 1375d

Of not taking appropriate measures against the policeman who kidnapped and murdered Sarah Everard and was known for his inappropriate behaviour beforehand and the mishandling of the vigil on Clapham Common.

Lucille Grant ● 1375d

Could anyone refresh our memories as to the 'dubious actions'?

Caroline Whitehead ● 1375d

Obvious answer is no. I am shocked there is no one better to replace her.

Lucille Grant ● 1375d