Forum Topic

This is not about Putney

I have something on my FBook, which has come on there from a friend who has a friend in South Africa. All hell has let loose, looting, buildings burning, petrol stolen to make fires, a massive shopping centre on fire.etc etc etc. Frightening.

Barbara Stevens ● 1664d10 Comments

Ed. Fair comment, I was mixing the Israeli judicial trial, which I'm sure isn't politically  biased, with the US political impeachment acquittals!Today's NI announcement didn't seem to go down well with any of the parties there. I think the idea of truth and reconciliation might be too late now. It might have worked as part of the original GFA? But I think too much has happened recently to bring about distrust in anything the current government is doing in NI. Who knows what the UK - and Irish - governments would prefer to keep under wraps for another 100 years? We know that while Corbyn was being criticised for meeting Irish Republican leaders the UK  government already had channels in place with them ... I suppose that's politics?

Michael Ixer ● 1664d

Of course Michael it wouldn't be a trial if you could guarantee a conviction. But I do agree with your "partly feudal" statement.Interesting that SA's truth and reconciliation process is being mentioned for NI after all these years. Of course it makes sense but I think the government will concede rather opening up. Who knows what is hidden behind those 100 year secrecy laws??

Ed Robinson ● 1664d

Ed. And both Clinton and Johnson were eventually acquitted. The problem I have with US impeachment is that it is essentially political not judicial. I'm not sure about the merits of the case about Andrew Johnson but in Clinton's case the impeachment was (in my opinion) driven by politics rather than any concern about sexual harassment victims and, similarly, his acquittal was probably due to political considerations rather than concern of whether he was guilty or not. It would be better if US presidents were held to account by judicial courts not one convened from politicians. In that respect the Israeli and French systems seem far better, although we still await a verdict in Netanyahu's case.I agree, the HoL and hereditary monarch are anachronistic in a 21 century democracy.  We still have a partly feudal system; our democracy is limited to letting us vote for a new parliamentary dictatorship every five years ...

Michael Ixer ● 1664d

Michael,Let's not forget Clinton and Andrew Johnson.Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Benjamin_Netanyahu"South Africa is a young democracy" Yes, but let us not forget that UK democracy is still incomplete - we still have the House of Lords and a hereditary head of state.What is our excuse apart from a being a few years older??

Ed Robinson ● 1664d

Does the US prosecute its Presidents? Nixon escaped impeachment by resigning; George W, like our PM Blair, wasn't challenged over whether the Iraq war was legal ... and Trump escaped impeachment twice and I suspect his lawyers will drag any legal actions out for so long it's unlikely he'll be fit for punishment if it ever comes to that? France has a mature, democratic system; I'm not sure about Israel. South Africa is a young democracy, still sorting things out so there's hope. Yes, there's rioting and looting but not that long ago Brixton and elsewhere had rioting and looting - and we consider the UK to be a mature democracy ... 

Michael Ixer ● 1664d

"those of us who had such high hopes .."Prosecuting leaders and former leaders face jail time for wrong doings has its risks.Israel, France, USA and South Africa to name a few countries that will prosecute.These countries are not perfect by any means but perhaps we can learn something from them?Would we not be in a better position today if we had better sanction than merely preventing a former PM entering the HoL?

Ed Robinson ● 1664d

It is indeed dreadful news, especially for those of us who had such high hopes for the country at one time with Mandela. It is mainly in Durban and Johannesburg at the moment, but there are fears it will spread.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1664d

Iv'e seen a load of videos it's dreadful out there.

Barbara Stevens ● 1664d

It's been on the news for a couple of days. Seems to be about the ex-president being imprisoned and this was the area he belonged to.

Katrina Black ● 1664d

Johannesberg.

Barbara Stevens ● 1664d